No matter how open-minded...
- Thread starter CrashBang
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That's not really logical at all, as it does nothing to address "religious people", only "the claims of [certain] religious people". Religious people have very real effects on society, and a fair chunk of them are very negative effects (promoting intolerance and or violence). So if they're wrong it's not a case of "it doesn't matter - you're dead", it's a case of "they fucked up your life and the lives of others for no gain". Since this is something we want to avoid, we have to insist the religious put up or shut up. Provide some evidence your intolerance/violence has a net benefit, or stop peddling intolerance/violence.Soods said:
Yes, that was my point. I fully understand the misrepresented class. I was trying to imply that dynamic of the problem when I said "The problem is that it's at least really hard to justify the first 4 premises without first showing that God exists," but looking back it's not very clear what I meant. It's hard to justify because it's not clear what properties God has, and there are an infinite number of mutually exclusive properties that could possibly be part of the nature of God.Logiclul said:
What I was arguing, however, was that the wager is not a fallacy, which is a plausible sounding argument that is nonetheless logically invalid. It's valid because the form is correct - the premises, if true, mean the conclusion must be true - and it is therefore not a logical fallacy. It is a fallacy in the non-technical sense, where the term simply refers to a mistaken belief, but since you put "logical" in all caps I figured you were talking about the philosophical sense of the word.
The longest responses always seem to go to the people I already agree with. Huh.
Why people quote marketing lines myths and such to argue something is better rather than using actual facts and doing research. I mean literally using stuff you'd read off a tagline vs actual written down specs in non-bias info lists/reviews. I mean something fairly specific but I don't feel like starting fights between people over their choice in electronics.
Pretty much.summerof2010 said:
I do agree that a soldier dying for what he believes in is something to be respected, but if I were to die in such a manner, what I would ask is that my memory be respected, and my loved ones still living be respected. My body is completely meaningless by that point, especially when you add in the fact that this is post-cremation.
This bothers people for two reasons:
1) The fact that they lied about it.
2) It's not the standard, and not socially acceptable. In other words, shock value. The action itself has no intrinsic meaning, it just runs contrary to what people are accustomed to.
While I wouldn't go about it quite that way either, I certainly can understand why someone would. When the action itself isn't hurting anyone, the only crime is a violation of social standards. If you don't share those social standards, or simply don't feel strongly about them, the only thing you need to be comfortable with is lying to those who do care about them.
And with that, all this really boils down in regards to what you need to "Wrap your head around", is lying. Not stealing from them, not hurting anyone, just lying to them. And when you look at it objectively, disregarding personal moral standard, the simple concept of someone lying for their own gain/convenience is something most people can understand, if not support.
Really? This is a bit of a departure from our earlier conversation, but you wouldn't try to right someone's wrong even if the belief didn't affect you? What if I believed that the integral from 0 to pi of sin(x) was 1? That belief is completely harmless. Would you not try to correct me?viking97 said:
You know those pop up ads that offer you a free [insert new technology here] if you hit the monkey clown with an exploding pie? Who makes those? Who sat there and thought to themselves that the best way to get people to click wasn't to fill the bucket with the bare minimum needed to attract them, but to fill it with every annoying gimmick in the book and then kick the bucket while swinging a monkey by the tail and tangoing in a fishnet sweater.
I mean there are ads for scams; and then there are ads that are just scary.
I mean there are ads for scams; and then there are ads that are just scary.
I cannot by any means understand why people have no pride. Or people who run away from their problems. I may complain about my own issues, but I believe in myself and my own capability to make it through life through my abilities and I am proud of that. I do not understand how someone cannot be proud of themselves or their accomplishments. (Without announcing what they are exactly I mean. That would just be plain arrogant.)
As for people who run away from their problems or what they are scared of...I absolutely do not understand. What's the worse that could happen if you face your fears? Failure? People fail all the time. Possible death? People die all the time. Just don't do something stupid like facing your fear of heights by swan diving off of a building without rope. I don't even understand people who are sick and are GOING to die, yet choose to do it in misery and in a whimper. Accept the fact that you may die and live your life up. Do what you thought you couldn't.
Enjoy what little time you have left instead of living in sorrow.
As for people who run away from their problems or what they are scared of...I absolutely do not understand. What's the worse that could happen if you face your fears? Failure? People fail all the time. Possible death? People die all the time. Just don't do something stupid like facing your fear of heights by swan diving off of a building without rope. I don't even understand people who are sick and are GOING to die, yet choose to do it in misery and in a whimper. Accept the fact that you may die and live your life up. Do what you thought you couldn't.
Enjoy what little time you have left instead of living in sorrow.
Parents with identical twins of the same gender who feel the compulsive need to dress them in the exact same clothing right down to the laces on their shoes.
Tattoos can be a variety of things, it could be the name of a lost loved one, or some sort of badge you wear for something you're proud of; dying your hair just says to me that you're ashamed of your natural looks and you feel as though you need to compensate.Rayne870 said:
If the system were working the way it was intended, it wouldn't matter how much squabbling went on in Washington, because the federal government doesn't constitutionally have the power to make a strong impact on everyday life. As it stands, they can stick their dirty little paws most anywhere. However, most people just sit back and let the politicians have their little spats in the Capitol. That is, until the taxman comes knocking. Then we get pissed off.Esotera said:
OT: I'm going to take the other side of the religion topic and say I can't understand how people can be atheistic or agnostic. The odds of you being born from the thousands of eggs in your mother and millions of your father's sperm are high enough. Now consider the odds that your parents met, had sex, conceived, were born in the first place. While we're at it, how about the survival of your familial line all the way from early human evolution and beyond. Then consider the odds of Earth having the right chemical makeup and astronomical conditions to support life, or that physics works in a way to have stable reactions, or that the universe was formed at all.
The odds aren't actually worth calculating because the number is so far beyond human comprehension that it would just be meaningless text. I've heard it's ten to the power of (number of all atoms on Earth), but that could be wildly inaccurate. In essence, it's like betting, say, 17 on a roulette wheel and winning once a minute, every minute, without ever losing until the end of time. Confronted with those odds, I don't know how anybody can take them. That's the point where a magical man in the sky starts to look like the rational, level-headed response to existential questions.
I don't mean to come across as bitter. This is one of those arguments where the two side's viewpoints completely miss each other. All the arguments are based on assumptions that the other side either doesn't acknowledge or use reasoning that the other side doesn't accept. That is why nobody will ever scare an atheist with the threat of eternal damnation and nobody will convert a creationist by showing them fossils.
oh... oh COME ON. Don't give me that. The whole reason behind it was because the south wanted to preserve their way of life, which was focused around the plantation elite slaveholders. In fact, south seceded in the first place was because Abraham Lincoln's election was considered the last straw, and why? Because he endorsed the non-extension of slavery. I'll be fair, it was about states' rights... but you forgot to finish your sentence. It was about states' rights to allow slaves in the state. The entire conflict revolved around slavery, don't try and ignore it. In fact, none of it would have happened if slavery had stopped after 20 years like it was supposed to, but no, there had to be congressional compromises, debates (which at points turned violent), and a bunch of other bullsh*t just to pacify the southern slaveholders and... and...BOOM headshot65 said:
You know what... forget it.
I know pro-lifers, it irks me a little bit to see them espousing such an outdated disposition like it's the freshest loaf of bread about.
There are plenty of things I don't understand but the one that first comes to mind right now is why so many poor people vote republican.
Haha, you know I actually have a quote that explains that.ConstantErasing said:
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
Religion, mind altering drugs and rap...
I can understand WANTING to believe in religion, helps ease the uncertainty of death, but how do you actually make yourself believe such a thing?
Mind altering drugs should be self explanatory, but for me this includes getting drunk.
Rap... note how I don't say "Rap music".
I can understand WANTING to believe in religion, helps ease the uncertainty of death, but how do you actually make yourself believe such a thing?
Mind altering drugs should be self explanatory, but for me this includes getting drunk.
Rap... note how I don't say "Rap music".
When a service member dies they are giving a gift, the most precious gift they can give. They are giving their bodies, their lives, their final moments to you, me, everyone they fight for. Disrespecting them in this manner is mocking this most precious gift, spitting in their face. It is just WRONG.summerof2010 said:
XD Jesus can fight his own battles I think.TheTurtleMan said:
But seriously, it's understandable to feel that way. I would like to make note, though, that from the viewpoint of many atheists (especially those on this board it seems), it is that crazy to have faith in a higher power. It's not so much the idea that something is responsible for the universe, it's the idea of that thing having a whole bunch of definable qualities attributed to it without reason (literally, by definition faith) and then being worshiped because of those qualities. It's creating an effigy out of thin air and then devoting your life to it. Of course, the faithful generally do not admit that is what they're doing - they often claim mystical revelation and, indeed, faith. But these types of evidence are not considered reasonable support for any other types of beliefs; religious faith gets a special exception for little apparent epistemological reason.
That, by itself, is not why people become anti-theists who bash theism and theists on message boards, but I just want you to understand where most of us are coming from with the assertion of a faith-justified God. Hope I helped bridge the gap.
