No "Meaningless Stat Games" in Mass Effect 3

[Owlslayer]

Well, i suppose if a few stats are changed or removed, it won't kill me, but the story better be fuggin' awesome.

And who am i kidding? I'm going to play this game even if the third part would be a gritty realistic FPS where in the end you would have to kill someone in slow motion.

 

[Agayek]

How in the sodding hell did people manage to get "Removal of pretty much every single RPG-feature" out of "No meaningless stat games"? I interpreted it as that every RPG-element (at least those combat related) would be able to impact the battle at hand, not that they were getting rid of them all together. In fact she went as far as saying "We want to enrich the role-playing aspects of the game, while making sure that they're always meaningful in combat". At no point does she imply that they intend to completely strip the game of RGP-features, but rather make them more meaningful.

One can hope that this means that, for example, I can use my biotic powers without having to work my way through two layers of shields and armor. You know, actually make them useful in the majority of encounters, as well as offering possibilities for a slightly more tactical approaches, including some proper crowd control.

But I guess we can't have reasoning like that when there is rage to be had and baseless conclusions to jump to. By all means, carry on predicting the death of Mass Effect, Bioware and the RGP-genre as a whole based on one statement that doesn't reveal anything concrete. We did such a damn fine job of it yesterday, so why stop now?

To be fair, it's not that much of a leap when you take that statement, combined with the thing from EA about "mass marketability", and then add in the trend showing itself in ME->ME2 and DA:O->DA2. Judging from that, it seems fairly clear that Bioware (or likely more accurately, EA) has no desire to please their RPG fans and are trying desperately to cash in on the COD market, and that they've somehow got it into their heads that RPG == FAIL & FPS == GREAT_SUCCESS.

 

[Jonabob87]

I think the keyword is "meaningless" here. As in useless. I doubt a team who have been working on RPG's for the last however many years is going to down talk RPG elements the way people seem to think they have.

The way I read it it sounds like they want to keep away from a level of RPG-ness that hampers gameplay. In Alpha Protocol they worked all the shooting through number crunching and it was excruciatingly bad. You could rest your pistol against someone's head before you fire and still miss because your pistol stat wasn't high enough. I think that's the type of "meaningless stat" that they're talking about. Something that hampers the experience.

They spoke a few weeks ago about how they were enhancing the RPG elements, and I know that there's been a delay but that's quite a U-turn to go from "More rpg elements!" to removing them entirely.

Don't worry dear friends, Bioware aren't idiots. I'm confident Mass Effect 3 will at the very least be deeper than Mass Effect 2 when it comes to leveling and character management.

Edit: Just read through some of the other responses in this thread.

EA executives should die in fires? Abuse towards this games assumed "low brow" audience?

It's not even out yet and we barely have any info on it. The article doesn't even insinuate that they're removing RP elements. Grow up for fucks sake.

 

[cthulhumythos]

*incoherent sobbing followed by smashing head into keyboard numerous times.

 

[GiantRaven]

Will Mass Effect 3 have the same fun combat as ME2? As opposed to the god awful combat of the first game, which was akin to punching myself in the face.

Will Mass Effect 3 have the great conversations and interesting characters that the past two games had?

If the answer to both those questions is 'yes' then, as far as I'm concerned, Mass Effect 3 is fantastic.

 

[The Bandit]

The developers announce that they will remove "meaningless" details from their game, and RPG fans shit a brick house.

Now I know why I hate RPG fans.

 

[Littaly]

All these loose statements about Mass Effect 3 are really kind of pointless. You can basically read whatever you want into them, they are come way too vague and way too early to actually tell us anything about the game other than "Hey! We're working on it and it's gonna come out, be sure not to forget!".

 

[Azaraxzealot]

you just commented in another thread saying that you liked the combat and inventory and everything better in mass effect 2 (except the story)

but for the record, mass effect 2 made me many kinds of tears. all of them good.
all 3 times i played it.

and its not like i have bad taste in art or stories, i like my citizen kane and my knights of the old republic and my quentin tarantino as much as the next guy, but mass effect 2 had a deep impact on me, and the only thing disappointing about it... is that mass effect 3 is not already here.

Yes actually, I did quite like the Mass Effect 2 system. It could have been better, but it was definitely damn good. The problem I have is that from what they've been saying, they're going in the exact opposite direction of where they should to improve the gameplay.

They took too much out between the first two games. It was an improvement (mostly), don't get me wrong there, but they still went too far with it. What they need to do is something like ME2's system, where you have more than 4 abilities and some actual depth to it.

An example off the top of my head, maybe when you level you get a "Skill Point", and with one skill point you can unlock or upgrade one of your abilities. In addition, as you play the game, you get "Biotic Points" (or whatever you want to call it) that you can use to augment your abilities. I'm thinking maybe certain quests and/or plot events reward Biotic Points, and you can use one of these to add additional effects to your skills.

Let's take a Vanguard for example. Upgrading the Biotic Charge ability will make it do more damage, lower the cooldown, etc. Then you could use Biotic Points to add a special effect, like slow-motion on use, or pull all nearby enemies to you, or stun nearby organic enemies, something like that.

You could only have one Biotic Point upgrade for any given skill at any time, but you could rearrange them at a respec station somewhere on the Normandy, then choose another one.

I came up with that whole idea in about 2 minutes. It's far and away better than what they had in ME2, being both simple/easy to use and with a lot of potential for depth.

Instead, they're going to just rip it all out and hand us a shooter with a probably-crap-but-potentially-good story.

As for you liking ME2: I agree. I quite liked the game as well. It's definitely high up on my list of favorite games. That doesn't change the fact that the main story sucked donkey balls. It made no sense and most of the major plot events required at minimum 3 separate, highly intelligent and motivated individuals to act like complete idiots and/or completely counter to their purpose.

The side-/character missions were all exceptionally well done, IMO, and I thoroughly enjoyed them all. The problem I have with it is that you go from quite good side missions to a nonsensical main story. The dissonance is rather jarring and bothered me more than a little while I was playing. If you really want me to, I can list out all the ways everyone acted out of character, stupid and/or directly counter to their own goals over the course of the game, but that's a lot of work and I don't feel like typing it all out.

Edit: Just to make it abundantly clear: ME2 was a great game. I thoroughly enjoyed it and played it through 3 times within a week of release, because I was addicted to it. That does not mean it is perfect, and that does not mean the sequel gets a pass though.

well we can both agree the music was stellar. that's what really caught me up in the emotions

 

[Woodsey]

I'm so glad that my love of leveling, looting, and tactics is now relegated to "meaningless stat games".

Whilst I am a little perplexed by what they mean, I will point out that:

a) If you were playing Mass Effect 1 for any of those things, you were already playing the wrong series

and

b) They didn't specify anything at all in what they've just said.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, whatever, we get it, combat is more fluid and smooth and whatever.

What about the non-combat aspects? I want to know where I'll be traveling, will vehicles return? Will these still be linear corridors? What customization options do I have? Who is on my side and who isn't? What is the state of the Citadel and the Council in the wake of Earth's invasion? C'mon, it's supposed to be a friggin' Space Opera, not another action-packed blockbuster as much as we may love those at times!

My thoughts exactly. All of these announcements about Mass Effect's combat are making me nervous. Gears of War and Call of Duty are where we go when we want mindless shooting, Bioware games are where we go when we want messy moral decisions and fantastic and creative environments.

Get that straight, Bioware.

What does the combat side have to do with the conversation side (which is where the RPG sticker comes in to play), exactly?

 

[Twilight_guy]

Oh boy. I think they screwed the pooch on this one. Their either alienated their fanbase or phased their sentences very poorly. Did nobody think this might not be the best way to talk about the new parts of the game?

 

[AlternatePFG]

This is all very vague, so it would be stupid of me to get worked up over this, but BioWare really isn't selling me on ME3. Every single piece of news has made me want the game less.

 

[Woodsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, whatever, we get it, combat is more fluid and smooth and whatever.

What about the non-combat aspects? I want to know where I'll be traveling, will vehicles return? Will these still be linear corridors? What customization options do I have? Who is on my side and who isn't? What is the state of the Citadel and the Council in the wake of Earth's invasion? C'mon, it's supposed to be a friggin' Space Opera, not another action-packed blockbuster as much as we may love those at times!

My thoughts exactly. All of these announcements about Mass Effect's combat are making me nervous. Gears of War and Call of Duty are where we go when we want mindless shooting, Bioware games are where we go when we want messy moral decisions and fantastic and creative environments.

Get that straight, Bioware.

What does the combat side have to do with the conversation side (which is where the RPG sticker comes in to play), exactly?

 

[Legion]

Bioware, serious question here: Did you learn nothing from Dragon Age 2?[footnote]



I do actually like Dragon Age 2, but it was very much one step forward, one step back.[/footnote]

Oh wait, they are still in denial over the fact people hated the removal of RPG elements and streamlining.

What does the combat side have to do with the conversation side (which is where the RPG sticker comes in to play), exactly?

A very good point, but when an RPG developer starts trying to sell their game purely on the combat aspects, then it is hard not to become a little skittish.

Will Mass Effect 3 have the same fun combat as ME2? As opposed to the god awful combat of the first game, which was akin to punching myself in the face.

Will Mass Effect 3 have the great conversations and interesting characters that the past two games had?

If the answer to both those questions is 'yes' then, as far as I'm concerned, Mass Effect 3 is fantastic.

Indeed. As long as the story doesn't go somewhere ridiculous. I'd like a believable way to defeat the Reapers please.

 

[michiehoward]

Oh god, incoming rage. Prepare thyselves, Bioware. Hell hath no fury like an entitled gamer scorned.

What he^ said.


I don't know how Bioware is gonna chip away at it anymore, perhaps at the start of ME3 you escape earth and before liftoff some shouts "You got your ship Shepard, awesome check that off the list." Then chucks a hand cannon at Shepard. "Got your gun, check, you may go. Get those Reapers bastards."

 

[Delusibeta]

Woo, Bioware's managed to break the fanbase in a week. Again. >.>

 

[Noswad]

I'm hoping here that by "meaningless stat games" they are actually referring to that bloody morality bar, and will start letting us make moral decisions based on what we think is right and wrong rather than what will get us the most paragon and renegade points.

 

[CommanderKirov]

Wooo! Less fucking around with stats on rifles and armor and more visceral combat and character development!

I'm fine with that!

 

[StriderShinryu]

Calling Mass Effect an RPG is a pretty serious genre stretch at this point, but that doesn't mean it won't be a hell of a good game when it comes out.

That's rather funny seeing as how I consider the characters and storylines, plus the players explicit choice based involvement in them, to be pretty much the defining aspect of an RPG, and there's no question that's a pretty huge aspect of both ME1 and ME2. Calling labelling ME an RPG a stretch is only a stretch if you define RPGs not by RP but by dice rolling and stat management.