No "Meaningless Stat Games" in Mass Effect 3

[cthulhumythos]

*incoherent sobbing followed by smashing head into keyboard numerous times.

 

[GiantRaven]

Will Mass Effect 3 have the same fun combat as ME2? As opposed to the god awful combat of the first game, which was akin to punching myself in the face.

Will Mass Effect 3 have the great conversations and interesting characters that the past two games had?

If the answer to both those questions is 'yes' then, as far as I'm concerned, Mass Effect 3 is fantastic.

 

[The Bandit]

The developers announce that they will remove "meaningless" details from their game, and RPG fans shit a brick house.

Now I know why I hate RPG fans.

 

[Littaly]

All these loose statements about Mass Effect 3 are really kind of pointless. You can basically read whatever you want into them, they are come way too vague and way too early to actually tell us anything about the game other than "Hey! We're working on it and it's gonna come out, be sure not to forget!".

 

[Azaraxzealot]

you just commented in another thread saying that you liked the combat and inventory and everything better in mass effect 2 (except the story)

but for the record, mass effect 2 made me many kinds of tears. all of them good.
all 3 times i played it.

and its not like i have bad taste in art or stories, i like my citizen kane and my knights of the old republic and my quentin tarantino as much as the next guy, but mass effect 2 had a deep impact on me, and the only thing disappointing about it... is that mass effect 3 is not already here.

Yes actually, I did quite like the Mass Effect 2 system. It could have been better, but it was definitely damn good. The problem I have is that from what they've been saying, they're going in the exact opposite direction of where they should to improve the gameplay.

They took too much out between the first two games. It was an improvement (mostly), don't get me wrong there, but they still went too far with it. What they need to do is something like ME2's system, where you have more than 4 abilities and some actual depth to it.

An example off the top of my head, maybe when you level you get a "Skill Point", and with one skill point you can unlock or upgrade one of your abilities. In addition, as you play the game, you get "Biotic Points" (or whatever you want to call it) that you can use to augment your abilities. I'm thinking maybe certain quests and/or plot events reward Biotic Points, and you can use one of these to add additional effects to your skills.

Let's take a Vanguard for example. Upgrading the Biotic Charge ability will make it do more damage, lower the cooldown, etc. Then you could use Biotic Points to add a special effect, like slow-motion on use, or pull all nearby enemies to you, or stun nearby organic enemies, something like that.

You could only have one Biotic Point upgrade for any given skill at any time, but you could rearrange them at a respec station somewhere on the Normandy, then choose another one.

I came up with that whole idea in about 2 minutes. It's far and away better than what they had in ME2, being both simple/easy to use and with a lot of potential for depth.

Instead, they're going to just rip it all out and hand us a shooter with a probably-crap-but-potentially-good story.

As for you liking ME2: I agree. I quite liked the game as well. It's definitely high up on my list of favorite games. That doesn't change the fact that the main story sucked donkey balls. It made no sense and most of the major plot events required at minimum 3 separate, highly intelligent and motivated individuals to act like complete idiots and/or completely counter to their purpose.

The side-/character missions were all exceptionally well done, IMO, and I thoroughly enjoyed them all. The problem I have with it is that you go from quite good side missions to a nonsensical main story. The dissonance is rather jarring and bothered me more than a little while I was playing. If you really want me to, I can list out all the ways everyone acted out of character, stupid and/or directly counter to their own goals over the course of the game, but that's a lot of work and I don't feel like typing it all out.

Edit: Just to make it abundantly clear: ME2 was a great game. I thoroughly enjoyed it and played it through 3 times within a week of release, because I was addicted to it. That does not mean it is perfect, and that does not mean the sequel gets a pass though.

well we can both agree the music was stellar. that's what really caught me up in the emotions

 

[Woodsey]

I'm so glad that my love of leveling, looting, and tactics is now relegated to "meaningless stat games".

Whilst I am a little perplexed by what they mean, I will point out that:

a) If you were playing Mass Effect 1 for any of those things, you were already playing the wrong series

and

b) They didn't specify anything at all in what they've just said.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, whatever, we get it, combat is more fluid and smooth and whatever.

What about the non-combat aspects? I want to know where I'll be traveling, will vehicles return? Will these still be linear corridors? What customization options do I have? Who is on my side and who isn't? What is the state of the Citadel and the Council in the wake of Earth's invasion? C'mon, it's supposed to be a friggin' Space Opera, not another action-packed blockbuster as much as we may love those at times!

My thoughts exactly. All of these announcements about Mass Effect's combat are making me nervous. Gears of War and Call of Duty are where we go when we want mindless shooting, Bioware games are where we go when we want messy moral decisions and fantastic and creative environments.

Get that straight, Bioware.

What does the combat side have to do with the conversation side (which is where the RPG sticker comes in to play), exactly?

 

[Twilight_guy]

Oh boy. I think they screwed the pooch on this one. Their either alienated their fanbase or phased their sentences very poorly. Did nobody think this might not be the best way to talk about the new parts of the game?

 

[AlternatePFG]

This is all very vague, so it would be stupid of me to get worked up over this, but BioWare really isn't selling me on ME3. Every single piece of news has made me want the game less.

 

[Woodsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, whatever, we get it, combat is more fluid and smooth and whatever.

What about the non-combat aspects? I want to know where I'll be traveling, will vehicles return? Will these still be linear corridors? What customization options do I have? Who is on my side and who isn't? What is the state of the Citadel and the Council in the wake of Earth's invasion? C'mon, it's supposed to be a friggin' Space Opera, not another action-packed blockbuster as much as we may love those at times!

My thoughts exactly. All of these announcements about Mass Effect's combat are making me nervous. Gears of War and Call of Duty are where we go when we want mindless shooting, Bioware games are where we go when we want messy moral decisions and fantastic and creative environments.

Get that straight, Bioware.

What does the combat side have to do with the conversation side (which is where the RPG sticker comes in to play), exactly?

 

[Legion]

Bioware, serious question here: Did you learn nothing from Dragon Age 2?[footnote]



I do actually like Dragon Age 2, but it was very much one step forward, one step back.[/footnote]

Oh wait, they are still in denial over the fact people hated the removal of RPG elements and streamlining.

What does the combat side have to do with the conversation side (which is where the RPG sticker comes in to play), exactly?

A very good point, but when an RPG developer starts trying to sell their game purely on the combat aspects, then it is hard not to become a little skittish.

Will Mass Effect 3 have the same fun combat as ME2? As opposed to the god awful combat of the first game, which was akin to punching myself in the face.

Will Mass Effect 3 have the great conversations and interesting characters that the past two games had?

If the answer to both those questions is 'yes' then, as far as I'm concerned, Mass Effect 3 is fantastic.

Indeed. As long as the story doesn't go somewhere ridiculous. I'd like a believable way to defeat the Reapers please.

 

[michiehoward]

Oh god, incoming rage. Prepare thyselves, Bioware. Hell hath no fury like an entitled gamer scorned.

What he^ said.


I don't know how Bioware is gonna chip away at it anymore, perhaps at the start of ME3 you escape earth and before liftoff some shouts "You got your ship Shepard, awesome check that off the list." Then chucks a hand cannon at Shepard. "Got your gun, check, you may go. Get those Reapers bastards."

 

[Delusibeta]

Woo, Bioware's managed to break the fanbase in a week. Again. >.>

 

[Noswad]

I'm hoping here that by "meaningless stat games" they are actually referring to that bloody morality bar, and will start letting us make moral decisions based on what we think is right and wrong rather than what will get us the most paragon and renegade points.

 

[CommanderKirov]

Wooo! Less fucking around with stats on rifles and armor and more visceral combat and character development!

I'm fine with that!

 

[StriderShinryu]

Calling Mass Effect an RPG is a pretty serious genre stretch at this point, but that doesn't mean it won't be a hell of a good game when it comes out.

That's rather funny seeing as how I consider the characters and storylines, plus the players explicit choice based involvement in them, to be pretty much the defining aspect of an RPG, and there's no question that's a pretty huge aspect of both ME1 and ME2. Calling labelling ME an RPG a stretch is only a stretch if you define RPGs not by RP but by dice rolling and stat management.

 

[ThisIsSnake]

Wow, the Waaaah is strong in this thread.

Removing meaningless stat games behind the scenes, the important part being behind the scenes. You know, the stats you can't see whilst playing the game. Instead they are making everything have a real effect in combat. How the hell are reactionary people managing the stretch to Call of Duty from that?

 

[ZombieGenesis]

Why are people going on about the RPG elements of this game?
It's not even an RPG. It just managed to be one in the first game, and from what I hear the second one stretched that quite drastically.

If you didn't have the face customisation, it wouldn't be an RPG title at all. Would there be anything 'rpg' that hasn't been implamented into games like 'Infamous'? I'd certainly never call that an RPG title after all.

'Behind the scenes stats' pretty much include everything that can be customised by numbers. Skills, items, levelling... I doubt they mean all that, but if they're placing 'it shoots nice' above those elements, I don't blame people who actually play the game for being mad.

 

[Talvrae]

There was behind the scene stats in Mass Effect 2??

Why are people going on about the RPG elements of this game?
It's not even an RPG. It just managed to be one in the first game, and from what I hear the second one stretched that quite drastically.

If you didn't have the face customisation, it wouldn't be an RPG title at all. Would there be anything 'rpg' that hasn't been implamented into games like 'Infamous'? I'd certainly never call that an RPG title after all.

There is dialogue options, not only facial customisation...

 

[ThisIsSnake]

I'm hoping here that by "meaningless stat games" they are actually referring to that bloody morality bar, and will start letting us make moral decisions based on what we think is right and wrong rather than what will get us the most paragon and renegade points.

I'm hoping they replace it with the Dragon Age style approval meter, where instead of morality being affected by decisions it's your party member's opinions that are affected.

 

[Yarpie]

Woo, Bioware's managed to break the fanbase in a week. Again. >.>

Personally I think this more a case of the fanbase breaking itself because they are actively looking for a reason to rage. Neither of the statments that have been put out over the past few days have really told us anything, yet people are acting as if though they have flat out said that they intend to make the game worse in every possible respect, just to be mean and unreasonable.

Hell, at this point Bioware could probably get flamed for saying the game will come in a plastic box, because true RPG:s came in carton boxes with a CD-casing inside.