No "Meaningless Stat Games" in Mass Effect 3

Recommended Videos

Sunfirecross

New member
Oct 17, 2008
39
0
0
JeanLuc761 said:
Sunfirecross said:
Mass Effect was never an "RPG", however it was a Roleplaying game, where my choices and action actively changed game-world to some degree.
Mass Effect is and always has been a hybrid shooter/RPG. I'm relatively certain that even Bioware has confirmed this. For some reason, people think that the two genres can't exist together.
I've been waiting for a game like the Mass Effect series for a long time now. Being at its core a shooter, but having a focus on story and RPG elements.

Hell, I'd like to see these people classify Star Control 2 into a Genre, a nigh impossible feat.
 

spartan231490

New member
Jan 14, 2010
5,184
0
0
Arehexes said:
So it's now 100% Gears of Wars in Space.
No. You still get to pick your class, even if they're all the same./sarcasm. lol, I really missed the RPG feel that was much more prevalent in ME than in ME2, but the OP has a point, ME2 was still fun to play.
 

Sharalon

New member
Jan 19, 2011
320
0
0
Sounds great to me! The meaningless minor stats and constantly changing weapons and armors for slightly better ones is always the worst part of an RPG. The really good bits come when you have to choose between two different weapons or armors that are equally good, but still different.

The way it worked in for example ME1 or Borderlands, it felt more like you had to stop every five minutes to file the proper paperwork.
 

Lordmarkus

New member
Jun 6, 2009
1,383
0
0
Glory to the Gods, number crunching in direct games is fucking tedious. I can take it in Dragon Age and the early Fallouts but missing an obvious dead on hit just because some imaginary dice in the code rolled a 9 instead of a 10 can destroy even the best games.

Yes, I'm looking at you Morrowind.
 

Fanboy

New member
Oct 20, 2008
831
0
0
All the people here complaining really noticed that +5% to shields from equipment, or 10% increased sprint speed? I sure didn't. Good riddance I say. I don't play games to crunch stats (single player games that is, you can't really help it in mumorpugers). I'd rather have significant choices in my equipment and stats than -5% biotic recharge time. I usually just pick which armor looks coolest anyways...
 

Hyper-space

New member
Nov 25, 2008
1,361
0
0
We just had an excellent thread about stats and meaningless problems (not choice) that plagued ME1. Long story short: ME2 got rid of all the stuff (such as equipment) that was just a matter of problem (that is, there was just one solution) and replaced all the equipment with meaningful choices, that is, there was actual thinking involved instead of just "which is better" and there was now a clear difference between weapons and equipment.

This does not have me worried, as stats are just a relic from the days of DnD and when visual representations/actions were limited. Now that we can have the characters ACTUALLY do stuff instead of just having the computer roll a dice to see if we were successful. Now we have to use skills instead of luck to perform actions, which is the logical evolution for the RPG genre.

So my dear Escapists, an RPG is not defined by how much it resembles an accountant's work, but if there is character progression (this can manifest itself in many ways), cause remember: RPGs should be about choice, not min-max'ing and problems. So Bioware is not getting rid of the RPG elements, but are advancing them, taking them from their non-visual past and bringing them into visual future. Crying over stuff like this is the same as crying over cars no longer having to use that old-timey handle on the front.

PS: future posters, please do not try to make yourself look superior by insinuating that you somehow have higher standard, for one you are wrong and two it makes you look like an elitist dick.
 

RA92

New member
Jan 1, 2011
3,078
0
0
Andy Chalk said:
What if we just reclassify Mass Effect as a shooter? Would that make everyone feel better? That's what ME2 was, after all, a conversational shooter, and it worked out very well.
I dunno... As a standalone shooter ME2 wasn't very good. And because I barely ever got to use my powers in the fast paced battles, the shooting got repetitive. The only reason ME2 had me hooked was because of the story.
 

JMeganSnow

New member
Aug 27, 2008
1,591
0
0
Duskflamer said:
I for one am extremely nervous about this news. "Behind the scenes stat games" makes me think of things like, weapon upgrades that add some percent damage increase or firing rate increase, does this announcement mean an end to the game's weapon customization?
I'm not sure how to interpret that statement either. I'm HOPING this means that they stopped putting in math where several variables are hidden so you pretty much have no option but to try it out to see how it works. My experience with a lot of games has shown me that "Increases damage by 10%" can mean a lot of different things, from (in my mind, the best case) when you hit someone, you do 10% more damage, to (worst case) you doing what might be some maybe slightly augmented form of damage but because there are about 35 different multipliers being applied and they don't stack the way you think they should because some of them don't affect the damage affected by other multipliers, the *actual numerical damage increase* is on the order of 3.5%, except on crits when it's like 75% for some unknown reason.

THAT is the kind of "behind the scenes stat games" that I HATE because I don't want to have to do freakin' calculus to figure out which of the stupid options is actually going to get me that "more damage" that I need. 10% more damage should mean: it takes the damage you do, and adds 10%. Not, it adds 10% to the base weapon damage ignoring modifiers from stats. Not, it adds 10% to your calculated overall damage after strength is applied but before skill modifiers. NO. TEN PERCENT DAMAGE INCREASE.

ANYWAY.
 

Fanboy

New member
Oct 20, 2008
831
0
0
Duskflamer said:
I for one am extremely nervous about this news. "Behind the scenes stat games" makes me think of things like, weapon upgrades that add some percent damage increase or firing rate increase, does this announcement mean an end to the game's weapon customization?
Don't be nervous. They are most likely replacing the universal weapon upgrade system from ME2 with the weapon mod system they plan to implement.

The universal upgrades like "10% increase to handgun damage" were not even a form of customization, since they were always active... unless you actively chose not to pick them up or research them.
 

teebeeohh

New member
Jun 17, 2009
2,896
0
0
EA and bioware really don't like the people who loved BG and KOTOR anymore. i mean as a company that is known for making rpgs you don't just announce that one of the pillars this genre stands on will be completely streamlined away without including more information.
 

uc.asc

New member
Jun 27, 2009
133
0
0
JeanLuc761 said:
I'm with you. We know barely anything about Mass Effect 3 and the only information I've heard has been good:
- Returning RPG elements.
- More fluid combat with swat turns and rolls (a la Gears of War)
- Weapon mods are returning from Mass Effect 1
- Melee will be improved with each character having a "kill" animation.
- Larger environments with less "chest-high-walls" level design.
- "Meaningless" stats will be replaced with real impacts (which is EXACTLY what this article says).

I'm sure there's more, but that's just the basics.

Would someone like to explain to me how ANY of that is a bad thing?
That all sounds pretty good to me. I'm actually becoming cautiously optimistic.

Keep in mind the only people who have strong opinions about games that haven't been released yet are the lunatic fringe, so this thread doesn't exactly represent a meaningful sample of gamers.
 

Phase_9

New member
Oct 18, 2008
436
0
0
stoprequesting said:
On one hand, an RPG for me means a developed, dynamic story with in-depth character interaction. For a lot of people (and by "a lot of people" I mean "a solid chunk of Bioware's customer base"), however, it means a deep stats system.

"Stat-free" RPGs can be done - Borderlands jumps to mind, for instance - the stat customization is roughly on par with COD or BFBC2, and it's widely seen as Diablo in space. But Bioware has not exactly inspired the confidence as of late.
Are you kidding? Borderlands has stats all over the place. Their damage stats had decimal places, for God's sake.

That being said, I'm going to assume that they mean they are either bringing the stats out again (because they pretty much hid them in Mass Effect 2) or that they are trimming the fat of some stats that didn't matter. And if it's neither of these, I still trust Bioware to do the game justice.
 

ryai458

New member
Oct 20, 2008
1,493
0
0
As long it is fun and tells an amazing story who cares if you have a geth assault rifle 1+ charisma?
 

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
45,698
1
0
StriderShinryu said:
That's rather funny seeing as how I consider the characters and storylines, plus the players explicit choice based involvement in them, to be pretty much the defining aspect of an RPG, and there's no question that's a pretty huge aspect of both ME1 and ME2. Calling labelling ME an RPG a stretch is only a stretch if you define RPGs not by RP but by dice rolling and stat management.
You have to draw the line somewhere if you're going to have meaningful genre definitions. Mass Effect 2 is a third-person shooter with occasional bits of branching dialog and a small handful of character upgrades, but the presence of a handful RPG elements does not make it an RPG. It's more like Diablo or Dark Messiah; it may look RPG-ish at first glance but when you get down to it, it's a conversational action game.

Which for the record isn't a complaint. I've loved ME so far and I'll be all over ME3 on launch day. I just find it interesting that BioWare, one of the industry's premiere RPG studios for more than a decade, is now paring back many of the traditional elements of the genre in its biggest and most successful (I'm guessing) franchise.
 

cynicalsaint1

Salvation a la Mode
Apr 1, 2010
545
0
21
You gotta love all the knee jerk reactions in this thread.

Really all I heard was that all they were making an effort to have all upgrades be meaningful, and make sure its relatively clear what they do. As opposed to having a ton of stats that the game either never tells you about, or does a poor job of describing how they affect the game, and you have to grind for hours just to get a barely worthwhile +1 to it.

Really, that doesn't sound like a bad thing to me.
 

Aggieknight

New member
Dec 6, 2009
229
0
0
cynicalsaint1 said:
You gotta love all the knee jerk reactions in this thread.

Really all I heard was that all they were making an effort to have all upgrades be meaningful, and make sure its relatively clear what they do. As opposed to having a ton of stats that the game either never tells you about, or does a poor job of describing how they affect the game, and you have to grind for hours just to get a barely worthwhile +1 to it.

Really, that doesn't sound like a bad thing to me.
If it wasn't for the disaster that was DA2, I would agree with you.

Unfortunately, now I'm going to spend the next year skeered.

I'd also feel better if Bioware would stop dropping hints like "no meaningless extra RPG stuff" without giving details. What is an example of a meaningless stat? I didn't think there were any left. Last I heard from BioWare, ME3 was going to lean back more RPG, not less.

I loved ME2, but the "steamlinedness" of it was almost too much for me. I'm very concerned about Gears of Mass Effect - now with better cover combat...which is exactly why everyone played the other two, right?
 

DSK-

New member
May 13, 2010
2,431
0
0
As long as it doesn't turn out like DA2 I'll be as sound as a pound.