No Right Answer: Best U.S. President Ever
- Thread starter Firefilm
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Someone's a bit touchy. I would be too, but I live in an area where the indians are the one's that are better off than a lot of others.GonzoGamer said:
Grr, always cutting that last bracket off in quotes.
I completely regret watching this. I don't like Abe very much seeing he caused a war by not refusing the presidency basically I blame him for the bad economy in the south for the past 130 odd years; cause the north raped the south and then pissed on it. And you wonder why we take it out on the former slaves.
The best president is Calvin Coolage cause he said little and did less and that is what America really needs.
The best president is Calvin Coolage cause he said little and did less and that is what America really needs.
So you punish black people for something a white guy did yeah that makes sense.Brad Gardner said:
Also if they would have given up slavery the war would never have happened and its not like the issues that led to the civil war would have just gone away if Lincoln was not president.
Ahhh and let the Conservative "historians" go on and tell us how horrible FDR and Wilson were and how Coolidge was the best president ever.
If there is one election I'd consider to just be bad ass it'd be the election of 1948 with Truman, Truman was unpopular and everyone expected him to lose, a magazine which predicted the last 4 elections accurately predicted he would lose, his party was splitting up with the Progressive Party and the Dixiecrats and the Republicans themselves seldom mentioned him since they felt their victory was assured. Out of nowhere he started mobilizing FDR's New Deal coalition, promising to advance civil rights and create more welfare projects, he took the Republican platform and dared the Republican dominated congress to pass it, they of course balked and he discredited the Republicans as "The Do-Nothing Congress". The man won despite the Solid South voting Dixiecrat and another sizable portion of Democratic voters voting the Progressive party. If there's ever been such a badass comeback it's that.
As for the Federalists, that wasn't really under Madison's control, the Federalists main support was from city merchants and aristocrats whereas the Democrats main support was from the rural populace. Because they were absorbing Federalist idea's and the new states coming in out West were Republican the Republicans were destined for dominance.
The differences today though are because the Southern Conservatives left the Democrat party and joined the Republicans 1964 and many of the Liberals in the Republican party left to the Democratic party especially during the 80's where they were being purged.
He didn't run against the incumbent (John Tyler) he ran against Henry Clay. Henry Clay was pretty popular and seemed set for the presidency but due to his views on expansionism he lost. John Tyler was originally a Whig but even the Whigs themselves abandoned him and he was left without a party to back him up so he was essentially an independent (he wasn't elected as such, George Washington was the only other independent president and he was actually elected). Even then the Free Soil Party split the Whig Vote so it was hardly impressive. Although what was more impressive was the fact that Polk won despite the fact that Clay carried his home state of Tennessee.BehattedWanderer said:
If there is one election I'd consider to just be bad ass it'd be the election of 1948 with Truman, Truman was unpopular and everyone expected him to lose, a magazine which predicted the last 4 elections accurately predicted he would lose, his party was splitting up with the Progressive Party and the Dixiecrats and the Republicans themselves seldom mentioned him since they felt their victory was assured. Out of nowhere he started mobilizing FDR's New Deal coalition, promising to advance civil rights and create more welfare projects, he took the Republican platform and dared the Republican dominated congress to pass it, they of course balked and he discredited the Republicans as "The Do-Nothing Congress". The man won despite the Solid South voting Dixiecrat and another sizable portion of Democratic voters voting the Progressive party. If there's ever been such a badass comeback it's that.
Not entirely. One son survived, his name was Robert Lincoln. His mom pretty much kept going on spending spree's and Robert was worried that he was going to lose his inheritance to her. So he kept trying to get her declared insane and locked up in an insane asylum and he succeeded once after a crappy trial (a bunch of doctors came to testify she was insane despite the fact that they've never examined her) but eventually pretty much everyone from his relatives to his own wife went to his mother's side and the courts eventually found out it was bullshit and she was let go.TheFederation said:
Um it kind of didn't? Kennedy's plans for Vietnam did. Even then there's Eisenhower and his approval of South Vietnam not participating in a united Vietnam election.ravenshrike said:
Wait you mean they agreed not to start WWIII right after WWII? How is that a bad thing?ravenshrike said:
There were only two modern presidents which didn't, Jimmy Carter and Richard Nixon. So this seems to put only Jimmy Carter as a good president, but wait he wasn't.ravenshrike said:
Try to criticize LBJ without mentioning the Vietnam war. I mean the guy passed the landmark Civil Rights legislation, JFK seems to take credit for that despite the fact that unlike Kennedy Johnson had the ability to pass legislation.ravenshrike said:
I've always found this strange, I can't think of too much that he did that would make him great. Most arguments seem to be what he didn't do which made him great (like not establishing a kingdom or whatever), but I often see rankings [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States#Scholar_survey_results] pitting him as one of the top 3 usually. But come on, there has to be something more than that.ravenshrike said:
Franklin Pierce destroyed the Whig party but he was a horrible president(he was the incumbent and his own party nominated someone else over him). The War of 1812 was perhaps our most humiliating defeat ever, the British burned down the White House after all and captured Mid-Western states like Ohio with only some pathetic resistance (they took Fort Detriot without a shot). The invasion of Canada was an outright joke, they were seriously expecting to just march up there and take over Canada with very little fighting and were beat back by Canadian militia (many of which were Tories from the colonies during the Revolutionary war), then after Napoleon was defeated the British began raping America. I mean it was only through shear luck the British didn't re-captured the colonies. The army that burned down the White House was first hit by a hurricane and then hit by one of the biggest tornadoes in the area ever, the forces that would ultimately lose to Andrew Jackson forgot to bring ladders to storm the entrenchments, the tide of the river they were going to cross stopped them from doing so and they themselves lost coordination. It was pretty much sheer luck that America survived.Bill Nye the Zombie said:
As for the Federalists, that wasn't really under Madison's control, the Federalists main support was from city merchants and aristocrats whereas the Democrats main support was from the rural populace. Because they were absorbing Federalist idea's and the new states coming in out West were Republican the Republicans were destined for dominance.
Not really. Both parties had Conservative and Liberal wings, thus each President was often a compromise between the two. Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt were such compromises. Both parties had huge Conservatives and huge Liberals, but it seems to be hard to find places where they disagree, the only place they seem to is in foreign policy.Joseph Harrison said:
The differences today though are because the Southern Conservatives left the Democrat party and joined the Republicans 1964 and many of the Liberals in the Republican party left to the Democratic party especially during the 80's where they were being purged.
Two words... Andrew Jackson!
He got into duels, got shot, multiple times, and survived.
...badass. To the point that the most offensive webcomics out there can't help but say so.
He got into duels, got shot, multiple times, and survived.
...badass. To the point that the most offensive webcomics out there can't help but say so.
Oh hell, why did I have to bring Ansem Retort into this?! WHY?! Now everybody everywhere on this thread will be offended!
I gotta say, as a British guy, I think G.Washington was the greatest president of the US. I read about him somewhere, and the man seemed flawless.
Do I sense a historical debate in the making?Warforger said:
1. Wait, there are people who actually think that Calvin "Oh-don't-mind-me-I'm-just-gonna-cause-the-Great-Depression" Coolidge is one of the Greatest Presidents?
2. Polk was a war-mongering asshole who invaded Mexico and stole half their country so that slavery could expand. The Mexican Cession caused the Fugitive Slave act and Bleeding Kansas so no, I do not think he is the Best President.
3. Truman's a beast because he fired MacArthur, nuff said.
4. Sad story about Robert Lincoln is that he is somehow related to the Lincoln, Garfield and McKinley assassinations.
5. LBJ's Greater Society (I think that's what it was called)is actually pretty sweet and his work fighting discrimination and poverty should be lauded. Unfortunately its overshadowed by him sending thousands of troops to Vietnam.
6. George Washington is considered to be one of the Best Presidents because he really established what it meant to be president, he created the Cabinet and set up the two term system for Presidents which went unbroken til FDR. He also managed to stay independent along party lines while not being out of the loop. Personally, I don't find him all that great, the only thing he actually did was put down the Whiskey Rebellion but people still worship him.
7. I think you're giving the British a little too much credit and the Americans too little. While at first it was a monstrous defeat, William Henry Harrison was able to take back Detroit and turn the war around a little although the War ended before anything really could be achieved. Also, Stephen Decatur won quite a few battles on the Great lakes IIRC. Although it kills me to say anything positive about Andrew "Genocide and Economic Collapse" Jackson you can't say that he won the Battle of New Orleans entirely due to luck.
Also The Federalists collapsed because they were against the War of 1812, which was immensely popular and because they wanted to secede from the US to form the Essex Junto.
8. How do you define Liberal and Conservative? For me its:
Liberal= Big gov't, high taxes, high spending, change
Conseravtive= Small gov't, low taxes, low spending, keep things the same
I believe that Lincoln and Teddy both fall rather firmly in the Liberal category.
FDR is clearly the right choice.
He knew America would not elect a cripple, so he convinced America he wasn't crippled, by walking.
He:
-Fixed the worst economic crash in U.S. history
-Won a pretty damn big war.
-Slept with every single thing that moves.
-Was elected twice as many times as any other U.S. President.
At the same time.
While Confined to a wheelchair.
He knew America would not elect a cripple, so he convinced America he wasn't crippled, by walking.
He:
-Fixed the worst economic crash in U.S. history
-Won a pretty damn big war.
-Slept with every single thing that moves.
-Was elected twice as many times as any other U.S. President.
At the same time.
While Confined to a wheelchair.
I'm not an American but I admire the hell out of LBJ. He was like a liberal Nixon who didn't do anything illegal. A being of pure politics and rat cunning.
Three stories, apocryphal or not, make LBJ awesome.
The "start a rumour he's a pig fucker" story.
Laying his cock on the desk of the oval office and claiming "the Viet Minh will never get this!"
re: J Edgar Hoover "Better to have him inside the tent pissing out than outside pissing in"
My favorite two reasons for LBJ would be:
At times history and fate meet at a single time in a single place to shape a turning point in man's unending search for freedom. So it was at Lexington and Concord. So it was a century ago at Appomattox. So it was last week in Selma, Alabama. There is no Negro problem. There is no southern problem. There is no northern problem. There is only an American problem. Many of the issues of civil rights are very complex and most difficult. But about this there can and should be no argument. Every American citizen must have the right to vote...Yet the harsh fact is that in many places in this country men and women are kept from voting simply because they are Negroes... No law that we now have on the books...can insure the right to vote when local officials are determined to deny it... There is no Constitutional issue here. The command of the Constitution is plain. There is no moral issue. It is wrong?deadly wrong?to deny any of your fellow Americans the right to vote in this country. There is no issue of States' rights or National rights. There is only the struggle for human rights.
and
You do not wipe away the scars of centuries by saying: 'now, you are free to go where you want, do as you desire, and choose the leaders you please.' You do not take a man who for years has been hobbled by chains, liberate him, bring him to the starting line of a race, saying, "you are free to compete with all the others," and still justly believe you have been completely fair... This is the next and more profound stage of the battle for civil rights. We seek not just freedom but opportunity?not just legal equity but human ability?not just equality as a right and a theory, but equality as a fact and as a result.
Three stories, apocryphal or not, make LBJ awesome.
The "start a rumour he's a pig fucker" story.
Laying his cock on the desk of the oval office and claiming "the Viet Minh will never get this!"
re: J Edgar Hoover "Better to have him inside the tent pissing out than outside pissing in"
My favorite two reasons for LBJ would be:
At times history and fate meet at a single time in a single place to shape a turning point in man's unending search for freedom. So it was at Lexington and Concord. So it was a century ago at Appomattox. So it was last week in Selma, Alabama. There is no Negro problem. There is no southern problem. There is no northern problem. There is only an American problem. Many of the issues of civil rights are very complex and most difficult. But about this there can and should be no argument. Every American citizen must have the right to vote...Yet the harsh fact is that in many places in this country men and women are kept from voting simply because they are Negroes... No law that we now have on the books...can insure the right to vote when local officials are determined to deny it... There is no Constitutional issue here. The command of the Constitution is plain. There is no moral issue. It is wrong?deadly wrong?to deny any of your fellow Americans the right to vote in this country. There is no issue of States' rights or National rights. There is only the struggle for human rights.
and
You do not wipe away the scars of centuries by saying: 'now, you are free to go where you want, do as you desire, and choose the leaders you please.' You do not take a man who for years has been hobbled by chains, liberate him, bring him to the starting line of a race, saying, "you are free to compete with all the others," and still justly believe you have been completely fair... This is the next and more profound stage of the battle for civil rights. We seek not just freedom but opportunity?not just legal equity but human ability?not just equality as a right and a theory, but equality as a fact and as a result.
First off, there were no Republicans during the Era of Good Feelings. There were only Democrats. Republicans only came around in the 1850s, unless you count the Know-Nothings who came in around the 1840s.Warforger said:
Second, we, a ragtag nation, managed to best the British Navy to the point where their newspapers were moaning about the fact they couldn't win, Had the British government court- marshaling everyone and anyone who lost a battle, and stopped veteran armies from the Peninsula and other Napoleonic campaigns at Chippawa, Lundy's Lane, Baltimore, and at New Orleans, with an army of pirates, creoles, Kentuckian and Tennessean milita, and a handful of regular soldiers, we crushed the best the British had to offer with only a handful of casualties. That by itself is something to be proud of, but at the same time, our country of 18 independent states became a nation, all because of "Mr. Madison's War".
And finally, they didn't "forget" to bring the ladders, the British general who was in charge of it ran, was court-martialed afterwords, and was dismissed from the service.
I like teddy just cause he's a badass. While Lincoln was great, I think he's just a bit overrated. And for FDR, I would like to say he was great, but my personal bias does not allow me to. He set up Japanese concentration camps, which goes completely against the entire idea of being American. Otherwise FDR was pretty awesome too.
...god damn it kyle how could you not mention that Roosevelt inspired batman, like straight up was the basis for bat man, and he was a cow boy, and he was a boxer, and he beat people up with sticks while whispering sweet nothings to them!... wait a sec i think i screwed one of those up...
