No Russian

[Agarth]

I agree with your opinion about russians being the main baddy of most games recently. Sure this means that there are less WW2 games about killing Nazis but is this really a step forward? I've actually complained to somebody about this and he said, and I'm serious that he said this, "Come on man. They're making these games to train people for when the russians declare war on us." My emediate response was to ask him, "Then why is it 'Modern Warfare '?" Then he answered, "Because Russia will declare war on us in at least a year and technology won't change at all by then." Then I just looked at him and told him that I would have nothing to do with that ridiculous debate. Guess what. That was a year and a half ago. Are there any russian paratroopers dropping out of the sky and destroying our cities now? I think it's a really bad sign for many things that I'm looking forward to a WW2 game where you get to play as a nazi. (And I mean in the single player mode/campaign) Yes, U.S. government. Go ahead and burst down my doors so you can put me down.

 

[Smithburg]

From a simplistic (read: American) view, .

Talk like that only makes you sound worse than the very people you're trying to insult. Don't generalize.

Perhaps I should have specified. I'm trying much harder to refer to my own mostly-ignorant view of international politics than to make any sweeping generalizations.
That said, Americans not paying much attention to anything outside of America is a stereotype much closer to the truth than "Vodka Today."

About the American not paying attention to the outside world, that is kind of the fault of our news, if you watch it, they only show info from other countries if its death destruction or disease, its actually pretty frustrating. It can be pretty hard to find good info or news from other countries even online here because everything is always funneled back to our own news sources. Generally the only network ill watch is BBC News we get over here because they actually talk about other countries involving normal things.

 

[Zyntoxic]

just on a general note: BFBC2 isn't american...

OT: kind of funny, I went into this thread expecting the kind of "no russians" kind of hate that you find among europeans in games such as HoN, but yeah, it is kind of silly how russians in a ridiculous amount of games are the enemy, it is kind of like there is this remaining underlying grudge.

 

[drummond13]

-Reading comprehension fail-

I was specifically commenting on how russians were portrayed in cod games and that can roughly be summed up with "penal battalions and commissars, also soviet union=russia". But since you're such a great history teacher, you can probably tell me(without cheating with wikipedia) which country fought against both sides.

Ooooookay. I need to be a history teacher to notice you play as soviet soldiers fighting against nazis in CoD 1-3? Look, you don't need to be an ass. If you have an actual point to make, then make it. I'll listen. You're initial argument was along the lines of CoD1: Russians=evil. This is not an argument. If you have some historical knowledge that I don't about Russian soldiers in WWII then please share it, rather than making snarky comments and being a dick.

As for the later games, it's true that you fight against a lot of Russians But many of these games also have you fighting alongside Russian soldiers allied to your current cause. They seemed to be going for shades of grey, rather than Russians=evil. But again, this could be open to debate.

But if we're going to debate it, then let's actually debate it. Your sarcasm is pointless.

I did made a point, but you read over it, again.

You "did made a point" eh? Make it again if you want to be taken seriously. Because "penal battalions and commissars, also soviet union=russia" is not a point. It's just poorly written rhetoric.

 

[Titan Buttons]

Play MW2. Seriously if you just watch the No Russian mission then you take the entire game out of context. The CoD games have always been great at portraying things without a simple good/evil line. MW2 is no different.

Dude, i played MW2 and its full of "evil" Russians

As I recall Shepard was american and he was just as evil as the russian terrorist, also their are radio chatter in the game when playing as Roach between Soap and his Russian allies made in CoD4. Also Nikolai is a Russian and he comes in and saves you twice.
Korea is the counrty that is getting it bad, just look at HomeFront.

 

[Asehujiko]

reading comprehension fail, part III

I was responding to to somebody who claimed that CoD games are morally gray, which they aren't. In every single WWII CoD, americans and british are portrayed heroic and completely glossing over all of their war crimes while both germans and russians* characters commit them constantly.

*In addition to that, every single Soviet character has a russian accent, follows hollywood perceptions of russian culture and has a russian name. According to CoD, Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia and the other satellite states simply don't exist.

 

[drummond13]

reading comprehension fail, part III

I was responding to to somebody who claimed that CoD games are morally gray, which they aren't. In every single WWII CoD, americans and british are portrayed heroic and completely glossing over all of their war crimes while both germans and russians* characters commit them constantly.

*In addition to that, every single Soviet character has a russian accent, follows hollywood perceptions of russian culture and has a russian name. According to CoD, Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia and the other satellite states simply don't exist.

You know, saying the words "reading comprehension fail" doesn't really make it so. This is the FIRST time you've written something that actually outlines what you were trying to say. Seriously. And hey, look at that, it's not a bad argument at all now that you've actually, you know, used sentences to say it.

I do remember some war crimes in CoD 5 but I for the life of me can't remember any in CoD 1 or 2. Do you remember some specific examples?

 

[Jegsimmons]

well....we dont really see anybody as big takeing up arms with america, and the PC crowd tend to flip shit when we actually put the taliban or iraqis in a game.

also, 'no russian' is stupid because its already filled with plot holes, not just because its murdering russians. dont use something like call of duty as an example.

at least Battlefield tones down the stereotyping a lot and makes them pretty competent.

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

RTS games.. sure. That's probably because they're not very, well.. personal. How many FPS games can you remember where you play a nazi campaign?

(Im trying hard, but I cant think of one Ive played)

Day of Defeat, Return to Castle Wolfenstein (and its expansions), Battlefield 1942. Perhaps not true campaigns, but it's still an FPS where you take a side and the side is actually referred to as Germans or Nazis, rather than current FPS games where the villains are just generic 'terrorists' or 'extremists' instead of taking a solid stance as to where they're from.

There are also some squad-based strategy games out there that allow you to play as Germans and make the fight a bit more personal than a typical RTS, like Silent Storm and Company of Heroes.

There's actually a whole lot of problems with creating a first person shooter where you play as a Nazi, though. For one thing, you'd have to make a very clear distinction from the start of the game whether or not your player character is Wehrmacht or Schutzstaffel. If the former, you're just a German soldier. If the later, you're part of a paramilitary force built and operated entirely around Nazi ideology and responsible for the vast majority of German war crimes and crimes against humanity during WWII. So all those FPS games where you play as an elite member of the US armed forces, like an Army Ranger or a member of the 101st Airborne... it doesn't translate well to the other side. Then there's the fact that, quite frankly, Germany as a whole wants the world to just forget about the Nazis and move on. I can pretty much guarantee that a shooter where the player character is a Nazi would be immediately banned from sale from the moment it's even announced. And considering countries that produce video games tend to make the player character from the country that the game is produced in, it's rather unlikely that German developers are going to put out a shooter where you play as a member of the Waffen-SS. People typically like characters that they can identify with in one way or another, and I don't think Germany really wants to identify with that these days.

 

[Nudu]

Well, China and the US are buddies, the middle east is controversion and people are tired of Nazis. Where else are you going to get generic bad dudes who want to kill Americans?

 

[spartandude]

well....we dont really see anybody as big takeing up arms with america, and the PC crowd tend to flip shit when we actually put the taliban or iraqis in a game.

also, 'no russian' is stupid because its already filled with plot holes, not just because its murdering russians. dont use something like call of duty as an example.

at least Battlefield tones down the stereotyping a lot and makes them pretty competent.

Ah but thats the thing, In CoD they are still portrayes as the bad guys and it seems still so in MW3 but it was an American who killed the civillians (who could have just as easily killed the bad guy and ended it all) but we are still expected to see the whole of Russia as bad while only seeing ONE american as the bad guy rather than both countries as bad or a couple of individuals.

and i know CoD is meant to be simplistic but its still stupid

maybe im seeing too much in to this but still putting America in the position of Russia in all honesty quite a few people would go insane

 

[slarrs]

The Villains aren't Russians, they're terrorists. Russian terrorists, yes, but the main villain INTENTIONALLY turns the US and Russia against each other without either side particularly noticing.

And when something as ludicrously over the top as "Satanist dictionary" is taken seriously, I think you're missing the point.

 

[Kargathia]

From a simplistic (read: American) view, .

Talk like that only makes you sound worse than the very people you're trying to insult. Don't generalize.

Perhaps I should have specified. I'm trying much harder to refer to my own mostly-ignorant view of international politics than to make any sweeping generalizations.
That said, Americans not paying much attention to anything outside of America is a stereotype much closer to the truth than "Vodka Today."

About the American not paying attention to the outside world, that is kind of the fault of our news, if you watch it, they only show info from other countries if its death destruction or disease, its actually pretty frustrating. It can be pretty hard to find good info or news from other countries even online here because everything is always funneled back to our own news sources. Generally the only network ill watch is BBC News we get over here because they actually talk about other countries involving normal things.

It's also a hint you can pick up when paying attention to US politics. Whether it's your news or not, it's still a rather large pointer that so far nobody has been elected president on a campaign that more than fleetingly mentioned foreign affairs.

But in general, the only real difference here is not the sentiment, but the name of the players.

"We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France."
~Arthur Wellesley, The Duke of Wellington.

Read this, and imagine who the players would be if you made CoD in the mid 19th century, at a time of peace between England and France.

 

[Asehujiko]

reading comprehension fail, part III

I was responding to to somebody who claimed that CoD games are morally gray, which they aren't. In every single WWII CoD, americans and british are portrayed heroic and completely glossing over all of their war crimes while both germans and russians* characters commit them constantly.

*In addition to that, every single Soviet character has a russian accent, follows hollywood perceptions of russian culture and has a russian name. According to CoD, Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia and the other satellite states simply don't exist.

You know, saying the words "reading comprehension fail" doesn't really make it so. This is the FIRST time you've written something that actually outlines what you were trying to say. Seriously. And hey, look at that, it's not a bad argument at all now that you've actually, you know, used sentences to say it.

I do remember some war crimes in CoD 5 but I for the life of me can't remember any in CoD 1 or 2. Do you remember some specific examples?

1 has teamkilling commissars and snipers, UO has penal battalions, in 2 your teammates shoot civilians for simply being in the way and in 3 your own side shoots cannons at tanks that you are trying to put sticky bombs on.

 

[Jegsimmons]

well....we dont really see anybody as big takeing up arms with america, and the PC crowd tend to flip shit when we actually put the taliban or iraqis in a game.

also, 'no russian' is stupid because its already filled with plot holes, not just because its murdering russians. dont use something like call of duty as an example.

at least Battlefield tones down the stereotyping a lot and makes them pretty competent.

Ah but thats the thing, In CoD they are still portrayes as the bad guys and it seems still so in MW3 but it was an American who killed the civillians (who could have just as easily killed the bad guy and ended it all) but we are still expected to see the whole of Russia as bad while only seeing ONE american as the bad guy rather than both countries as bad or a couple of individuals.

and i know CoD is meant to be simplistic but its still stupid

maybe im seeing too much in to this but still putting America in the position of Russia in all honesty quite a few people would go insane

everything you pointed out.... is a reason why it's a giant plot hole...

 

[urilukin]

So if you haven't noticed the times of Joseph Goebbels are back with Anti-Russian propaganda, with games like MW2,BFBC2,COD:Black Ops,MW3 and many more.
Writing this i am watching the mission "No Russian" from MW2 and to tell the truth, in my opinion it is disgusting, and the amount of anti-Russian games coming out of the american game industry is quite worrying.
It seems that in almost every american game Russians are the enemy and not only that, the amount of stereotypes that get worked in to these games is also worrying because in the news stand at the Moscow airport in MW2 you can see magazines like "vodka today" and "Satanist dictionary" and my favorite "duck killer" What?! you thought that Russians read Tolstoy and Pushkin Fuck no, we read "vodka drinker".
And what if Russia brought out a game where you go around killing hyper-fat Americans and the magazines they were reading were "How to bomb brown people" and "How to get you IQ up to 73" and "The REAL way to clean a shotgun" well, you get my point.
So it is time for us to get rid of this insulting, lazy and old way of writing scripts it may have worked in "Rocky IV" but not in the 21 century...

a) you can skip the mission and it has no effect on the storyline

b) you dont HAVE to shoot at civillians.

You still see Russians being shot...

 

[tthor]

Yeah i'm with the op here, the middle east and asia as a whole get hit hard by american studios too. It seems due to a lack of america having no great opposite on an international scale any more, causing the studios to go for old stereotypes and relying on nobody questioning them for hostile factions you don't have much dialogue with.

Take homefront for example. Big bad asians coming in and being generically evil, as the easiest way to make an asian antagonist is just to base them on the very worst memories of the Japanese that ww2 has to offer. It's a shame the very worst is used rather than the very best when it comes to stereotypes.

you know something, this got me thinking.. i kinda want a videogame/story, where there are no villains. I've seen stories where there are no heroes, but it would be interesting to see a story play out where nobody is made out to be the villain; instead, every side has its goals it needs to accomplish possibly for survival, the conflict arising not from someone being an evil asshole, but instead from the fact that each group's survival/etc conflicts in part with the other's

 

[mezorin]

Here's a game you'll never see made: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare Reversed

You're a Russian Federation Spetsnaz trooper. The game starts out with your team responding to an american group of Private Military Contractor spooks attacking an oil pipeline in northeastern Russia, there purely to destabilize oil prices by starting shit in Russia's back yard. The game goes into a limited cloak and dagger war across Europe and the middle east between Russia and irregular US forces, along with our Mercenary bad guys. Said mercenary forces are lead by a Boss Hog styled Texan stereotype who wears a big ten gallon texan hat, smokes big cigars and weighs 300 pounds. You guys, being the heroic good guys, thwart the every move of the mercenary forces, moving step by step to uncover the mercenary plot until tragedy strikes: a small nuclear bomb is detonated by Boss Hog in a Polish city to be blamed on a middle eastern terrorist attack, killing your teammate Sasha (who bravely stayed behind to save the rest of your team and tell the world the truth).


You then find out the entire conflict was engineered by Wallstreet Tycoons who wanted to 1- sell a lot of arms, and 2- create an environment fertile for a fascist style take over. Upon revelation of this, a political conflict in America breaks out where the 'bad rich Americans' (Wallstreet Fascist Mercenary) and the 'good average Americans'(Good US Volunteer Army/ Working class) are in an internal political and even military struggle and its up to you and your wise cracking spetznas buddies to help defuse the whole thing. Your team eventually arrives in Washington DC, and helps save America from a coop lead by Rick Kainney, former vice president and current head of the 'bad American' corporate mercenary forces. The game's finale ends with your squad leading an assault on Capitol Hill, and disposing of the new self appointed president. In the nick of time, America and the world is saved from the horrors of fascism by the brave men and women of the Russian Federation armed forces, in particular a nameless every-man Spetznas trooper (you).

 

[mezorin]

Edit: Double post delay fail.

 

[MrJKapowey]

Play MW2. Seriously if you just watch the No Russian mission then you take the entire game out of context. The CoD games have always been great at portraying things without a simple good/evil line. MW2 is no different.

Dude, i played MW2 and its full of "evil" Russians

Not really - one evil Russian (Vladimir Makarov) The rest are attacking AMerica to avenge the deaths of civilians at the hands of what looks like a CIA Special Activities Division unit (or something).

The rest is subjective - all the Rangers complain about how evil the RUssians - because they just got invaded.