@Notch and the 'F-bomb'

[Monsterfurby]

American sensibilities to speech in general are weird. Especially when you are talking about a culture that has no problem glorifying violence as fun for all ages.

What do you mean, Notch is not American?

 

[Virmire]

Children hear curses growing up in the household, at school, and in public all the time. If it was a random guy no one would, well, give a fuck.

 

[Frostbite3789]

One might say they are "Socially Retarded". Not because of disability, but because of poor decisions and approach to life, their own volition brought their "condition" of repeatedly doing inappropriate and dumb things. Like "He's collecting for the red-cross, not a crusader, you Retard".

Though the etymology is undeniable in it's purpose as an insult "are your retarded?" clearly means are you so clueless on the situation that you are like those people who have severe mental/physical impairment to need to remain in care all their lives.

In the same way some clueless person who has no clue what foolish thing they are doing like driving a lawn mower over a flowerbed you might yell "What are you doing? Are you blind?". They aren't blind, they simply aren't looking where they are doing but the purpose of the "are you blind" is as an insult that their foolishness is effectively a disability.

It's actually an old gag to have the "Are you blind" respond with "actually, I am". I don't think there has been a "are you retarded" respond with "actually, I am retarded". I think there was a family guy episode that did that once.

And I feel like that's where intent comes into play. If they meant no malicious intent towards the group, then I don't see it as all that bad.

Political correctness is the problem here. In a perfect world, people wouldn't say such things, but this is not a perfect world. Everyone lives in a glass house so to speak.

Intent makes all the difference. Between someone saying, "That was gay, dude" in reference to something negative happening and "I HATE GAYS, THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE RIGHTS!", I think we know which one is the bad one. But they get treated roundabout the same.

In fact the second instance might even get waved off more, since it's just some crazy redneck. But we need to punish the person who had no ill intent?

Like I said, life is too short for that crap. But some people make a living off being offended by such things.

 

[CoDzombieDude]

What's that I hear? I think the Fox News Bullshit Brigade are on the way...

Me personally think that responsibility is with the parents. I mean you're taking your kids to VEGAS, so there may be a few issues to skirt your child around aside from swearing.

I like the Yogscast to be honest, and I think swearing is a more British thing as you'll hear in most schools in this country (Not sure if that's a good thing or not...)

 

[EternalFacepalm]

so reading this I realized that I had never watched yogscast so I decided to give it a try, and dear god how can anyone stand those obnoxious whiny gibbering morons, let alone subscribe to them?

By having a different opinion on what's humorous and what isn't than you.
I know, it blew my mind too.

OT: Eh, I don't see the big fucking deal. Who the fuck gives a fucking fuck if they fucking sweared?
Fucking hell.

 

[Macrobstar]

so reading this I realized that I had never watched yogscast so I decided to give it a try, and dear god how can anyone stand those obnoxious whiny gibbering morons, let alone subscribe to them?

OT: Notch is over reacting(most of the "kids" there probably had already worse than that), and if he was that concerned about it he should have told everyone beforehand. besides I'v never rely thought of minecraft as a "kids game"

Because they're funny?

 

[Keava]

Since no one has posted it yet here is the panel in question it starts at about 2:20:

EDIT: I learned how to embed

Since i don't really have time to watch 1 hour of panel from Minecraft convention that barely interests me... Are the swear words in question from pre recorded footage from their Youtube channel? And that's the whole affair about?

It's Yogs fault how exactly that no one checked it before screening? That no one said They were not able to use swear words?
I'm sorry, but for those things the organizer is responsible, They and Notch set the rules, if those people can't handle the "responsibility" maybe They should not host conventions with live guest appearance.

Pretty poor attitude on Notch side and to be perfectly honest. Maybe it's time for Mr. glorified developer to actually start taking his side of business seriously.

 

[Wicky_42]

Considering how common cussing is in Sweden, I'm guessing he's doing this for the sake of his foreign audience. English speaking countries do after all seem to use terms like "f-bomb", "c-bomb", "r-bomb" and "n-word" along with bleeping out "bad words", making you at least appear as quite sensitive about cussing.

No! Don't lump us in with the States! All that crap is purely American! If a Brit or Aussie is going to swear, we do it. Americans are the ones who love their bombs

 

[ElPatron]

You using "that's gay" to describe things that are merely pathetic rather than of a same-sex screwing thing... that is homophobic.

Why has the black culture transformed the n-word into something that does not carry the old pejorative meaning but we can't take the homophobic out of "gay"?

I don't get mankind at all.






Anyway, Notch probably reacted this way to save face and not be associated with people who swear in front of children.

 

[S14]

Since no one has posted it yet here is the panel in question it starts at about 2:20:

EDIT: I learned how to embed

Since i don't really have time to watch 1 hour of panel from Minecraft convention that barely interests me... Are the swear words in question from pre recorded footage from their Youtube channel? And that's the whole affair about?

It's Yogs fault how exactly that no one checked it before screening? That no one said They were not able to use swear words?
I'm sorry, but for those things the organizer is responsible, They and Notch set the rules, if those people can't handle the "responsibility" maybe They should not host conventions with live guest appearance.

Pretty poor attitude on Notch side and to be perfectly honest. Maybe it's time for Mr. glorified developer to actually start taking his side of business seriously.

From what I've seen yes I'm over half way through it now and during the live bits they seem to be really careful and are trying not to swear

 

[Exosus]

My feelings about censorship, like my feelings about the concept of "community," people who say "n-word" instead of "******," and now apparently my feelings about Notch, can be summed up in three words: Fuck. That. Shit.

 

[Mrmac23]

For fuck's sake, Notch, you're better than this.

 

[XzarTheMad]

Read the newest tweets from Notch. May not be true, but still shines a bit more light on things.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

On the one hand: Notch's convention, Notch's rules.

On the other hand: You probably shouldn't invite people to your convention in their role as 'celebrities' if you're going to ask them not to act in the way that made them popular. Seems especially ridiculous to invite them and then not let them show the videos which made them successful in the first place.

 

[Treblaine]

"no homo"

Didn't know that was homophobic. It's simply the gay version of "that's what she said" only with sexual innuendo of the homoerotic nature.

of course it's homophobic, it's exact meaning is "please don't think i am homosexual despite what i've just said/written".

this not only implies that homosexuality is wrong but also that certain comments/opinions could only be made by a homosexual.

Yes, but I think you are going too far saying that is homophobic.

Would it also be homophobic to say:

"I'm straight" as that also literally means: "please don't think i am homosexual"

There is a difference between "I'm embarrassed of people assuming I am something that I am not due to innuendo" and "all homosexuals should be ashamed of what they are". The latter is homophobia. Homophobia is fear of being around homosexuals, that your relatives might be homosexual or that they are somehow contagious or are some kind of threat.

And there are so many humorous ways to use No-Homo that NORMALIZE homosexuality, like say a fan of uncharted who really loves Nathan Drake as a character they write a story like:

"I'm imagining the awesome adventures we have together finding treasure, meeting hot chicks, fighting terrorists and having sex (no homo)"

The pun is in how the "having sex" is it could either be worth women they meet or with each other, the No-Homo just draws attention to that yet clarifies the stance of the author. The author could have explicitly phrased it "and each of us having sex with women we meet" but adding no-homo is makes it a joke.

But what this REALLY does is takes away the shock value of homosexuality, the thing that homophobes exploit in "its jerst wrong!". In British comedy there is loads of gay humour with characters cross dressing, same-sex innuendo and dramatic ironic romance. Most of the time the straight-guy is at the butt of the joke for being clueless and losing his cool, the characters immune are the ones who roll with it and clue in on what is going on. And as a result Britain is far more gay friendly than say America's Deep South. It's familiar, we see how common it is and so we realise that it is no problem at all (or the only problem comes from persecution).

I've heard the kind of jokes about gays in the deep south, they are universally cruel and the gay man is the butt of the joke for being gay.

"no-Homo" jokes are inherently at the expense of hetero-characters playing around with their role, and a lot more nuanced in how compact they are it plays out two scenarios of going with and going against the gay scenario.

One thing this dodges is the Smithers' Denial, the most famous fictional gay character is infamously in the closet he ALWAYS denies being gay as of course he would as he's in the closet though totally unconvincingly. So simply saying "I'm not gay" just makes people think "well, that's what a closeted gay person WOULD say". And that's the Smithers routine.

Now realise if they were REALLY homophobic, they would never allow any question of their sexuality, because that is what the "No-homo" line is, "ha ha, sound like I'm gay, oh but I'm just playing". This shows a willing to allow others to think of their actions in the gay way without them getting the wrong idea they are closeted and hinting of coming out.

Though it can be used in a homophobic way, if it is NOT as a joke but in a wildly over-defensive way for any kind of same-sex interaction. But I rarely see that and it no where near prevalent enough to declare all use of "no-homo" as cruel.

 

[SirDenim]

Pre-response. I didn;t read thee other responses.

Response. In all honesty I can't imagine parents taking their kids to mandalay bay in VEGAS without the parents expecting some bit of corrupting to be done. I mean honestly, you can't take three solid steps without tripping over pictures or call-cards of naked women folk.

TL;DR It's the parents' faults.

 

[Atsumi_Warrior]

I played minecraft before i found the yogscast.
Yogscast kept me playing. yes IT WAS FUN! but the yogscast showed me Mod's and amazing things you can do in the game. Most kids have seen Yogscast WHO PLAY! minecraft. they always swear who the fuck cares. notch STFU AND GTFO.
Talking about having sex with someones mum in one video and masturbation? and you are complaing about them saying Fuck three or four times?

Besides. who the fuck takes there kid to Las Vagas JUST FOR MINECON? they did not have to stick around for the yogscast if they GO TO IT! they must know who they are anyway.
Right?
My guess is just some fucking american ***** trying to make some money off Notch.

 

[Smeggs]

It was a single word. No reason for Notch to get a bug up his ass about it. I understand maybe he thought it was a bit embarrassing personally, but really, did he ever ask the guys to watch their language beforehand? Common sense isn't always so common, and a lot of the humor on Yogscast comes from the cursing, dirty jokes and innuendos. They were playing for the crowd.

 

[teqrevisited]

Some quite inflamatory comments going up on the twitter page. I don't know what to believe.

I'd like to think that it might be their humour being misinterpreted, I know it's happened when I've been involved with people from other countries, but if what Persson is saying is true then consider me saddened (On egos, payments and the like. Fuck the swearing.)

I don't really think Vegas would be the kind of place for kids, though.

 

[Therumancer]

So today there's been something of an explosion over on Twitter with the revelation that someone at the Minecon event in Las Vegas 'dropped the F-bomb' in front of some kids, much to the dismay of Minecraft creator/demi-god, Markus Alexej Persson, aka Notch. Apparently, the culprits were in fact the Yogscast with their opening skit being the offending article(can't confirm this). This is an interesting case as in the past I've questioned the sensibilities of the Youtube gaming community, in terms of censorship, and thought I'd ask The Escapist community how they feel.

By sensibilities I'm referring to the casual sexism, disablism, homophobia, crude language etc. Personally, I have no problems with cursing. I would say that I swear fairy often and I find it strange that people would be offended. Fuck is a great word for enunciating views both critically and for comedic effect. The issue of swearing in front of children is a bit of tough one. My nine year old brother loves the Yogscast, he watches it for their gameplay and humour, most of which clearly goes over his head. They regularly make suggestive references (case point: masturbation with Notch) which he clearly does not understand. All of his friends also watch the Yogscast which means they are privy to language and information I wasn't until much later on life. He does, however, understand that to repeat this language is wrong. Is Notch overreacting?

As for the sexism, disablism and homophobia, that nonsense makes me cringe. Even revered Youtubers such as Seananners(who I love by the way) make silly throwaway comments about 'acting gay' or 'no homo '. The same thing goes for the overuse of the word 'retarded' as an insult. Chat about 'banging chicks' is fairly normal too. So many kids watch these videos and assume these attitudes are acceptable. I'm sure the people in the community who are female, disabled or gay don't enjoy it. Female presenters, such as Tara Long on Destructoid, are open to regular abuse from viewers/trolls, purely because they are female. The irrelevant comments they receive quite often project pure hatred.

We need to remember that playground politics do after all originate in the playground.

So, what do you think? Are these problems that need to be addressed? Do you think they are acceptable? Are they even there?

Free Speech does NOT mean simply the freedom for someone to say what you agree with. Not does it protect people from all forms of negativity. There is no reason why you have to like or support gay people, the disabled, or any other group and can't make your opinion clearly known. In fact the insinuation that people shouldn't be able to do this is one of the biggest problems we have in society right now, and also one of the things that is keeping the
political divide in the country nearly 50-50 especially on a lot of big issues.

You don't need to agree with someone on everything, maybe you like gay people, and someone else doesn't. Thinking that this invalidates everything else they might say or changes the things you DO agree with them on is just plain wrong. There are plenty of people I enjoy listening to who I seriously disagree with on a number of fundemental issues.

When it comes to female presenters and personalities, I think what your saying is a non-issue. I think it comes down to the whole "durrr, protect the woman" thing which is actually based on a degree of sexism. Simply put pretty much all internet personalities get a ton of bile thrown at them, you just tend to notice it more when it's a girl. Anyone who sticks themselves out there for that long is going to get abuse, and be able to take it... and let's be honest, a lot of people might REALLY hate the ladies in question, that goes with the territory.

That said, I have mixed opinions about swearing, I've been trying to cut back a bit due to it lacking grace (so to speak). Swearing in front of children is not a good thing, but at the same time bringing children into an uncontrolled enviroment to see internet personalities and such can be considered fairly irresponsible to begin with. "Minecon" is not a controlled, family friendly event from what little I know about it, and more of a general meeting of internet people going out to meet other internet people. If your concerned about your kids running into some F-Bombs they shouldn't be in an enviroment like that. It's sort of like letting them run around any other con where you never know what they are going to run into, it could be some 400 point 60 year old blob of wrinkles (and indeterminate gender) going by in an electric wheelcheer crammed into a Chun-Li costume. at comic-con or a video game convention or whatever. That's probably more scarring than the "F word" which frankly any kid over 7 has probably heard used casually thousands of times. Besides which this is also a MINECRAFT convention, and really Minecraft is populated by people who have apparently done things like create concentration camp replicas, and ginormous sex organs the size of mountains and such. While Minecraft doesn't have to be lewd, your bringing a kid into mixed company with a population you have to expect to be fairly warped and jaded to begin with.

It's not a good thing, but not really worth mentioning, and I hope Notch doesn't overreact or try and crack down too much on further cons so people are afraid to let their hair down and act like themselves because kids MIGHT be around. I never intend to attend since I'm not a Minecraft fan, but a lot of conventions wind up going in that direction after complaints and usually wind up becoming a lot less fun as a result. It might lack grace, but I don't think an adult should be all that concerned about dropping an "F-Bomb" when they want to.

Maybe Minecon needs a kiddie room to drop the kids off in or something.