Notch Dumps on EA "Indie Bundle"

[lapan]

2.) Some people that bought Mass Effect 2 complained about all the DLC it had, as well as about points they didn't like about the story and changes in gameplay. The same people bought Dragon Age 2 and went ape shit over things they had problems with in the story and gameplay. The same people complained about things they had problems with in Mass Effect 3, from leaks, before it was released. The same people bought Mass Effect 3 and complained about those "problems" that they saw in the leaks and are still in the game. They went even more ape shit and started petitions, etc, etc, everybody knows the situation by now. These people also go along with Notch, and spout out how EA is destroying the industry.

At what point will these people realize they are also to blame as well? They keep buying and turning around to complain. At what point will they realize that this is what EA has done for years, and it is idiotic for these people to keep buying the stuff and continue to rant?

I didn't buy either Mass Effect 3 nor Dragon Age 2 after hearing about the changes and problems those games brought to their series. I figure i'm not the only one.

If nobody complains the company will just assume everything is alright, though EA and Bioware have an history of plugging their ears and eyes to even the most friendly critiques anyways. Or do I have to get a job as video game journalist or game developer/publisher before i get to have an opinion?

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Indie games are fine. There are more indie titles now than ever before in the history of the art. It's easier and cheaper than ever before to make your own game and with the massive popularity of social networking, it's simpler than ever to advertise.

I'm not certain, but I can fairly comfortably say every single game I've played for the past month has been independently made and published, bar one. Just because there's a big fish in the pond doesn't mean there aren't smaller fish in it, or indeed entirely different pods to choose from.

I'm sure some people (like you, it seems) have reasons for disliking EA and believe said reasons are valid and justifiable. I have no problem with that. I do, however, get sick and tired of everyone and their dog jumping on the 'we hate EA' wagon just because they didn't like ME3, or some other bullshit. $10 says that at least three quarters of the people here railing on EA and going on about how shit destructive to the industry they think EA is, do nothing at all to follow through with their supposed beliefs and, not only that, but continue to buy EA games. last time I checked my 'games I have purchased but have yet to play' list, there's no Electronic Arts games there and a whole load of indie projects.

I'm not some hipster or something, in to 'indie' because it's underground and I don't believe big AAA titles are shit. I just feel that I've played everything the big guys have to offer right now and so I've dug into the lesser known stuff. It's their own fault if others can't seem to see beyond the EA forest.

I'm just pissed that they're using false advertising. It's one of those things you're allowed to do once you're disgustingly rich enough, apparently.

I'm not really sure it is false advertising. Aren't the games designed and made by independently funded groups, where EA's only role is advertising it? I consider that indie. I mean, Steam adversities games as indie and no one bats an eye.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

2.) Some people that bought Mass Effect 2 complained about all the DLC it had, as well as about points they didn't like about the story and changes in gameplay. The same people bought Dragon Age 2 and went ape shit over things they had problems with in the story and gameplay. The same people complained about things they had problems with in Mass Effect 3, from leaks, before it was released. The same people bought Mass Effect 3 and complained about those "problems" that they saw in the leaks and are still in the game. They went even more ape shit and started petitions, etc, etc, everybody knows the situation by now. These people also go along with Notch, and spout out how EA is destroying the industry.

At what point will these people realize they are also to blame as well? They keep buying and turning around to complain. At what point will they realize that this is what EA has done for years, and it is idiotic for these people to keep buying the stuff and continue to rant?

I didn't buy either Mass Effect 3 nor Dragon Age 2 after hearing about the changes and problems those games brought to their series. I figure i'm not the only one.

If nobody complains the company will just assume everything is alright, though EA and Bioware have an history of plugging their ears and eyes to even the most friendly critiques anyways. Or do I have to get a job as video game journalist or game developer/publisher before i get to have an opinion?

Don't act like a victim. If you don't like something, you don't buy it. End of. You don't get to assume anyone cares that you dislike the changes and expect something be done about it. You have no right to what you consider good games and EA has no obligation to care. If enough people decide to stop giving EA money, EA will change things until the money comes in again.

Just because you have a voice doesn't mean anyone has to listen.

 

[lapan]

2.) Some people that bought Mass Effect 2 complained about all the DLC it had, as well as about points they didn't like about the story and changes in gameplay. The same people bought Dragon Age 2 and went ape shit over things they had problems with in the story and gameplay. The same people complained about things they had problems with in Mass Effect 3, from leaks, before it was released. The same people bought Mass Effect 3 and complained about those "problems" that they saw in the leaks and are still in the game. They went even more ape shit and started petitions, etc, etc, everybody knows the situation by now. These people also go along with Notch, and spout out how EA is destroying the industry.

At what point will these people realize they are also to blame as well? They keep buying and turning around to complain. At what point will they realize that this is what EA has done for years, and it is idiotic for these people to keep buying the stuff and continue to rant?

I didn't buy either Mass Effect 3 nor Dragon Age 2 after hearing about the changes and problems those games brought to their series. I figure i'm not the only one.

If nobody complains the company will just assume everything is alright, though EA and Bioware have an history of plugging their ears and eyes to even the most friendly critiques anyways. Or do I have to get a job as video game journalist or game developer/publisher before i get to have an opinion?

Don't act like a victim. If you don't like something, you don't buy it. End of. You don't get to assume anyone cares that you dislike the changes and expect something be done about it. You have no right to what you consider good games and EA has no obligation to care. If enough people decide to stop giving EA money, EA will change things until the money comes in again.

Just because you have a voice doesn't mean anyone has to listen.

How does it hurt you in any way if i voice my opinion about something? Normal people take both good and bad critique about their works and learn from it. Sure, they can figure out that something is going wrong when they stop getting money, but without anybody telling them what their mistakes are it's hard to learn from them. Of course their is a big difference between polite critique and flaming, which i agree is the wrong way to go about anything.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

2.) Some people that bought Mass Effect 2 complained about all the DLC it had, as well as about points they didn't like about the story and changes in gameplay. The same people bought Dragon Age 2 and went ape shit over things they had problems with in the story and gameplay. The same people complained about things they had problems with in Mass Effect 3, from leaks, before it was released. The same people bought Mass Effect 3 and complained about those "problems" that they saw in the leaks and are still in the game. They went even more ape shit and started petitions, etc, etc, everybody knows the situation by now. These people also go along with Notch, and spout out how EA is destroying the industry.

At what point will these people realize they are also to blame as well? They keep buying and turning around to complain. At what point will they realize that this is what EA has done for years, and it is idiotic for these people to keep buying the stuff and continue to rant?

I didn't buy either Mass Effect 3 nor Dragon Age 2 after hearing about the changes and problems those games brought to their series. I figure i'm not the only one.

If nobody complains the company will just assume everything is alright, though EA and Bioware have an history of plugging their ears and eyes to even the most friendly critiques anyways. Or do I have to get a job as video game journalist or game developer/publisher before i get to have an opinion?

Don't act like a victim. If you don't like something, you don't buy it. End of. You don't get to assume anyone cares that you dislike the changes and expect something be done about it. You have no right to what you consider good games and EA has no obligation to care. If enough people decide to stop giving EA money, EA will change things until the money comes in again.

Just because you have a voice doesn't mean anyone has to listen.

How does it hurt you in any way if i voice my opinion about something? Normal people take both good and bad critique about their works and learn from it. Sure, they can figure out that something is going wrong when they stop getting money, but without anybody telling them what their mistakes are it's hard to learn from them. Of course their is a big difference between polite critique and flaming, which i agree is the wrong way to go about anything.

What I was saying (perhaps I said it poorly) was that you seemed to be suggesting EA should give you special attention. In my eyes, you were saying "I have an opinion, why is EA not listening to it?"

You are right, that people should tell a company when they fuck up. However, this forum is sadly full of people who complain their lungs out, then buy the next EA game and complain about it again.

Words are cheap and companies don't care how loud you shout them as long as you are still giving them money.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I'm just pissed that they're using false advertising. It's one of those things you're allowed to do once you're disgustingly rich enough, apparently.

I'm not really sure it is false advertising. Aren't the games designed and made by independently funded groups, where EA's only role is advertising it? I consider that indie. I mean, Steam adversities games as indie and no one bats an eye.

I think you'll find it's the publisher's job to finance the games. Indie refers to financing independantly so when EA refers to those games as indie, I consider that lying.

As far as I understand, I'm not aware of Valve having ever marketted any of their games as indie. Even Portal 1 and 2 that were designed by independant branches of Valve are never referred to as indie.

I was more referring to the "indie" genre of games on Steam, developed by other groups and sold on Steam. Isn't this the same thing? Some people made a game with their own money and another group is also selling along side them.

 

[Leroy Frederick]

I agree with the statement that a big problem with this debate stems from the fact that people have different ideas about the meaning of indie / independent.

I'll risk giving a definitive meaning here:

An Indie / Independent entity is someone that creates the product / content they want to create regardless of how they obtain the required finance, distribution and advertising / marketing of that product.

In other words, there is no outside entity having a majority influence over the start of a product and the final product itself.

Of course, if it's a commercial product the current market and other factors will come into play when it comes to how much compromise / partnering (publisher, third-party tools etc) is required to get the game to the level of success desired.

This means that in this context being published by EA or having a billion dollars to spend on your game does not all of a sudden make a creation / game indie or non-indie.

In saying this, I think there's room for extending the meaning a little. For instance, someone building a game on a near zero budget could be consider as 'grass-roots' or 'garage' indie (especially in situations where a product costs a different price depending on the finance available), but regardless, thee above meaning still stands.

 

[The.Bard]

Ugh, I seriously wish this guy would take his Lego-ripoff game and just go live in a pixelated hole for a few years alongside Jonathan Blow and every other full-of-themselves "we are the most awesome thing ever" indie studio.

"Indies are saving gaming,"

...Notch said while donning his best hipster outfit.


For every awesome indie game I play, there are about 15-20 that suck beyond measure.

I'm no fan of EA, but get off your wooden horse and take a stroll in someone else's clogs before dumping on who is and isn't destroying gaming.

YOU are not the arbiter of what the industry needs, Notch.

When did he claim he was an arbiter? He just tweeted. Everyone and his grandma has talked about the EA indie-bundle today and called them out for it. The Escapist did it earlier today. Why does him tweeting bother you. Notch didn't make a statement, he didn't write a blogpost or article, he gave his opinion in a tweet. How is that different from you giving your opinion in a comment? He don't put his tweets on the front page of the Escapist, the Escapist did that. I just don't get why this guys opinion always gets blown out of proportion.

That's exactly my problem. He tweeted under the false pretense of "Oh, I had noooooo ideaaaaa". This isn't the first time Notch's tweets have been brought up as news; he doesn't get to play the naive card and use "I just tweeted" as a defense. He should assume by now that anything he tweets IS an article. Whereas if my comments on this forum made cnn.com, I could be rightfully shocked that someone thought my stupid opinion was newsworthy.

Case in point, check out nfl.com. They are running twitter reactions to Junior Seau's death from other nfl players. Seriously. Because news about someone passing is no longer enough. Now we need to cull the masses and get their twitter reactions.

So yea, Notch knew someone would pick this up. If he didn't, then he has a serious intelligence issue to sort out. But first he needs to pull the giant stick out of his butt. The one that says "Starving indie developers feed orphans, and organized properly funded companies who employ thousands murder grandmothers."

 

[Vivi22]

but I don't see how major publishers like EA are doing anything more than bringing gaming to the masses.

Someone hasn't been paying attention.

 

[Leroy Frederick]

You know what, I'll have to take back my last post and adjust it a little because after checking wordweb, indie means:

-(of pop groups) not affiliated with a major recording company
-A pop group not affiliated with a major record company
-An independent film company not associated with an established studio

I think that means therefore if you are associated / published by an 'EA' or become an EA yourself, you cease to be indie. So it's a little unclear as to whether the bundle should be 100% grammatically called indie or not it if you want to go that deep into it.

However I think my definition stands in the context of independent (indie or otherwise) creators.

 

[Carnagath]

Nobody's forcing anyone to buy EA's products, or to pay for their "nickel and dime" DLC, or use Origin, or anything else. EA makes a product and offers that product under certain conditions; consumers then choose whether or not they want to lay out their money for it. And millions upon millions of people say "Yes, please."

If anyone in that equation is "destroying" the industry - which, for the record, is absolute nonsense - it's not EA, it's the purchasing public. It's you.

I don't believe that business and marketing methods should be viewed as a completely morally gray area where noone is responsible for anything and we are not allowed to criticize them as long as they sell things. I also don't believe that one should expect a mass of people so large that it extends to the millions to be a collective hivemind of well researched, well informed, conscious spenders. Thinking like that is what brought our once glorious (?) capitalism to its current state of choking in its own vomit. I personally believe that everyone is responsible and will criticize both the consumers and the companies for it, but not in equal measure, since companies have access to the media, employ a marketing staff and are generally extremely adept at manipulation, which places a much bigger part of the blame on their hands.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I'm just pissed that they're using false advertising. It's one of those things you're allowed to do once you're disgustingly rich enough, apparently.

I'm not really sure it is false advertising. Aren't the games designed and made by independently funded groups, where EA's only role is advertising it? I consider that indie. I mean, Steam adversities games as indie and no one bats an eye.

I think you'll find it's the publisher's job to finance the games. Indie refers to financing independantly so when EA refers to those games as indie, I consider that lying.

As far as I understand, I'm not aware of Valve having ever marketted any of their games as indie. Even Portal 1 and 2 that were designed by independant branches of Valve are never referred to as indie.

I was more referring to the "indie" genre of games on Steam, developed by other groups and sold on Steam. Isn't this the same thing? Some people made a game with their own money and another group is also selling along side them.

No. That is a completely different thing. Steam is an on-line shop.

OK. If we hypothetically suggested that a game could be funded independantly and was later distributed by a publisher/distributor, we would still refer to that game as indie. The only defining feature of an indie game is that it was funded independantly.

But isn't that what they are--independently funded games that were created by an unaffiliated group, that EA is now promoting? I mean, regardless of any nit-picking, the games were (I think) utterly unrelated to EA until now, when the latter has chosen to promote and distribute them to a larger audience.

The whole thing seems like a non-issue. If this wasn't EA, no one would care, and not because EA is a large company, but because it's currently "in" to flame EA every time they take a step in any direction. I would bet a kidney that if Valve were to advertise or distribute some indie games (outside of Steam) everyone would say how awesome it is. Really gets on my nerves, this kind of community behavior.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Nobody's forcing anyone to buy EA's products, or to pay for their "nickel and dime" DLC, or use Origin, or anything else. EA makes a product and offers that product under certain conditions; consumers then choose whether or not they want to lay out their money for it. And millions upon millions of people say "Yes, please."

If anyone in that equation is "destroying" the industry - which, for the record, is absolute nonsense - it's not EA, it's the purchasing public. It's you.

I don't believe that business and marketing methods should be viewed as a completely morally gray area where noone is responsible for anything and we are not allowed to criticize them as long as they sell things. I also don't believe that one should expect a mass of people so large that it extends to the millions to be a collective hivemind of well researched, well informed, conscious spenders. Thinking like that is what brought our once glorious (?) capitalism to its current state of choking in its own vomit. I personally believe that everyone is responsible and will criticize both the consumers and the companies for it, but not in equal measure, since companies have access to the media, employ a marketing staff and are generally extremely adept at manipulation, which places a much bigger part of the blame on their hands.

Seems like you're saying we can't solely blame the public for allowing themselves to be brainwashed. Yeah, EA did the marketing (I hate marketing, but it's besides this point) but marketing means nothing without the people choosing to watch, read and digest it.

If someone hands you a pill, it's your choice if you wanna take it. They can tell you how great it is, but they can't force you to swallow it. Scapegoating the blame feels like a cop-out to me. I don't want to let people escape any portion of the blame they deserve. Make no mistake, people, you feed the machine and it's 100% your choice to do so. If the flashy lights lure you in, you let them.

Totally unrelated, but this reminded me of this awesome quote from a song about consumerism and such (dunno if the song is the original source, in fact, I think it comes from a book):

The car is on fire, and there's no driver at the wheel
And the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides
And a dark wind blows

The government is corrupt
And we're on so many drugs
With the radio on and the curtains drawn

We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine
And the machine is bleeding to death

The sun has fallen down
And the billboards are all leering
And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles

It went like this:

The buildings tumbled in on themselves
Mothers clutching babies
Picked through the rubble
And pulled out their hair

The skyline was beautiful on fire
All twisted metal stretching upwards
Everything washed in a thin orange haze

I said, "Kiss me, you're beautiful -
These are truly the last days"

You grabbed my hand
And we fell into it
Like a daydream
Or a fever

We woke up one morning and fell a little further down
For sure it's the valley of death

I open up my wallet
And it's full of blood​

Sorry! Just thought that was some how relevant. And it's awesome, lol.

 

[Sylveria]

Oh q fucking q. It's so dumb to say something like that about a company. They're out to make money. If this "indie" bundle sells and makes money, and it's because they called it indie, they don't care. They'd call it dogshit bundle if it would sell. Notch needs to calm his nipples. No need to get twisted over this.

Your panties seem far more twisted up about this than Notch's.

 

[Sylveria]

Two of my biggest pet hates in gaming in one article...
Notch and EA

wow notch having a tiffy fit at somebody over twitter, never seen that before

Pretty much this.
As mind numbingly stupid as EA can be Notch's whining just makes me want to take their side even more.

Less than a handful of tweets is considered whining now? Geeze, at this rate if I say the word "Ham" at random, I'll be accused of whining within the next few years.

 

[Carnagath]

snip

As I wrote above, I think consumers share part of the blame too, just not in equal measure to the companies.

Captcha: bangers and mash. See, that's some brilliant marketing right there, because I had no idea what that means, I googled it, and now I want to eat it!

 

[Mr.Pandah]

Oh q fucking q. It's so dumb to say something like that about a company. They're out to make money. If this "indie" bundle sells and makes money, and it's because they called it indie, they don't care. They'd call it dogshit bundle if it would sell. Notch needs to calm his nipples. No need to get twisted over this.

Your panties seem far more twisted up about this than Notch's.

And who might you be? One of Notch's personal Internet guards? Please, I couldn't care less about what this man has to say about the industry. I'm simply static how I feel about what he said. Just because I used a few curse words doesn't mean I'm twisted over anything. It's just how I fucking speak.