Notch: Windows 8 Could Be "Very Very Bad" for Indies

Epona

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2020
4,221
0
41
Country
United States
Bhaalspawn said:
Crono1973 said:
Bhaalspawn said:
The Aero UI and other Windows 7 features are still present in Windows 8. It's more like a Cross Platform system has been added to the Operating System. All the the original functions that Windows XP/7 had. I have the preview on my Desktop, and it's running everything fine. It's Metro is designed to be more closed off, because it's meant to communicate between Microsoft's other devices, like the Windows Phone and the XBox 360 (Cross Platform Gaming, anyone?)

But much like GFWL beforehand, nothing forces you to develop for it. Steam can continue to be Steam the way it's always been, Origin can continue to be Origin, and everyone else can still be everyone else.

Or, in simpler terms:

Gabe Newell: THE WORLD IS ENDING!
Notch: The world might be ending... not sure yet.
Steam can continue to be Steam until Windows 9 where the Metro option is the only option?

Metro is closed off because they want to make a "console shell" for PC's where they can charge license fees. I'll bet that they want to make the entire Windows OS be that console shell in time, could be Windows 9 or it could be Windows 12 but it's coming. Hopefully by the time Microsoft turns Windows into a console, there will be better alternatives.
This is nothing more than paranoia and speculation.
Yes, it's speculation and what do you suppose Microsoft wants to do?

- Have a 100% licensed based OS
- Not have a 100% licensed based OS

I assure you, they WANT the first option and they are gradually going for it.
 

Doom972

New member
Dec 25, 2008
2,312
0
0
If Win8 will be as bad as they say it'll be, we can always just ignore it until it goes away. No one is forcing people to upgrade.
If Direct-X 12 will be exclusive to it, developers can just not use it. If some Win8 exclusive games will come out, there's always the option of multi-boot.
 

Treblaine

New member
Jul 25, 2008
8,682
0
0
TomWiley said:
I thought you meant to sarcastically say how Minecraft is *not* a CIA hoax, thus indirectly implying that it *is* a CIA hoax, to which I replied by pointing out the obvious, namely that it's a literal impossibility that Minecraft is a hoax.

Quit honestly, I'm surprised you don't see the gaping logical impossibilities in that conspiracy theory yourself. Because there is no way Minecraft could be a hoax. Someone would have noticed.
I very clearly said what is 'literally' interpreted as "Minecraft is a hoax" so with sarcasm the opposite:

In fact Minecraft doesn't even exist, it's all a hoax made to serve pointless Notch worship. All those youtube videos, all faked by the CIA. (THIS IS SARCASM)
I reiterated the same thing three times, with clear SARCASM labels, and showed the quote to you a second time and highlighted in in bold, and yet here I have to show you WHAT I SAID yet again yet somehow you conclude the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I said.

Have you not slept in 72 hours or something? Why are you so incapable of comprehending this simple thing, apply rational thought before posting.

The point that flew completely over your head was that Notch is not a talent-less celebrity who is only famous for being famous (like Kardashians), he has ACTUALLY DONE SOMETHING that means people pay attention to him: Minecraft. Minecraft is real, it is popular, he made it. That is why people pay attention to what he says.

This is a poetic technique that seem to be too much for you so let me give you the lowest common denominator version that there is no chance of you misconstruing:

No ambiguity statement said:
So what if he has a twitter account, he is not some no-talent Kardashian attention whore, he is an award winning programmer and a very successful independent entrepreneurial developer, that means he has something relevant to say about this not just attention whoring. His comments have been on topic, not self-obsessed like ACTUAL attention-whores who only talk about themselves.
He is very well informed and smart who makes up his own mind with well thought out logic, it is very interesting to consider what he says which is more definitely not simply parroting blindly what others say.
It's also spurious the assumption that if other experts air the same concerns then that confirms a theory of attention whores blindly repeating. That's a conformational bias.

It's worth considering that Minecraft does exist and is hugely successful in sales, how much people actually play it and investment in time people make as evidenced by the many videos on youtube. Notch is not worshipped like a Pharaoh, he is admired as an inspirational games developer. Nothing more.


I think it's a mealy mouthed attack you denigrate his warning as attention whoring. Such suggestions that he is an attention whore should be mocked with sarcasm.
Happy now? Do you understand?
 

Ukomba

New member
Oct 14, 2010
1,528
0
0
I only upgrade every other windows anyways, so I'm not planning on ever getting windows 8.
 

Merlark

New member
Dec 18, 2003
113
0
0
The simple answer is not to Buy Windows 8 or upgrade to it, the people murdered vista right out of the box. the same will likely happen to 8 at this rate. Microsoft only cares about money.

Also yes, screw notch. he made one game thats good in his life, that doesn't make him Shigeru 'friggen Miyamoto. In fact I won't even give him that, he didn't make a good game, the fans did it for him.

Who's playing stock minecraft with no mods? who's playing on a server with no admin tinkering? None of that is from Notch. The community puts more in the game i a day then his "Team" puts into MC in 6 months.

Oh well, at least he isn't as mouthy as that angry birds idiot.
 

ThunderCavalier

New member
Nov 21, 2009
1,475
0
0
So... it just occurs to me...

After reading this thread, can someone explain to me exactly WHY Windows 8 is(n't) the coming of the OS devil? Because... I'm really confused here. All I keep seeing from this is back and forth arguments about Metro (which lost me) and praising/bashing of Notch and other contemporaries listed as voicing their complaints about Windows 8.
 

TomWiley

New member
Jul 20, 2012
352
0
0
Treblaine said:
TomWiley said:
I thought you meant to sarcastically say how Minecraft is *not* a CIA hoax, thus indirectly implying that it *is* a CIA hoax, to which I replied by pointing out the obvious, namely that it's a literal impossibility that Minecraft is a hoax.

Quit honestly, I'm surprised you don't see the gaping logical impossibilities in that conspiracy theory yourself. Because there is no way Minecraft could be a hoax. Someone would have noticed.
I very clearly said what is 'literally' interpreted as "Minecraft is a hoax" so with sarcasm the opposite:

In fact Minecraft doesn't even exist, it's all a hoax made to serve pointless Notch worship. All those youtube videos, all faked by the CIA. (THIS IS SARCASM)
I reiterated the same thing three times, with clear SARCASM labels, and showed the quote to you a second time and highlighted in in bold, and yet here I have to show you WHAT I SAID yet again yet somehow you conclude the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I said.

Have you not slept in 72 hours or something? Why are you so incapable of comprehending this simple thing, apply rational thought before posting.

The point that flew completely over your head was that Notch is not a talent-less celebrity who is only famous for being famous (like Kardashians), he has ACTUALLY DONE SOMETHING that means people pay attention to him: Minecraft. Minecraft is real, it is popular, he made it. That is why people pay attention to what he says.

This is a poetic technique that seem to be too much for you so let me give you the lowest common denominator version that there is no chance of you misconstruing:

No ambiguity statement said:
So what if he has a twitter account, he is not some no-talent Kardashian attention whore, he is an award winning programmer and a very successful independent entrepreneurial developer, that means he has something relevant to say about this not just attention whoring. His comments have been on topic, not self-obsessed like ACTUAL attention-whores who only talk about themselves.
He is very well informed and smart who makes up his own mind with well thought out logic, it is very interesting to consider what he says which is more definitely not simply parroting blindly what others say.
It's also spurious the assumption that if other experts air the same concerns then that confirms a theory of attention whores blindly repeating. That's a conformational bias.

It's worth considering that Minecraft does exist and is hugely successful in sales, how much people actually play it and investment in time people make as evidenced by the many videos on youtube. Notch is not worshipped like a Pharaoh, he is admired as an inspirational games developer. Nothing more.


I think it's a mealy mouthed attack you denigrate his warning as attention whoring. Such suggestions that he is an attention whore should be mocked with sarcasm.
Happy now? Do you understand?
I understand perfectly. It's just that I think at this point it's just best that we agree to disagree. I mean, if you believe that Minecraft is a hoax, there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Personally, I don't believe in your theory, but I respect that you have that opinion just like I'm sure you respect mine.

Now, after discussing this issue for a while I'm pretty sure we aren't gonna get anywhere. I would be remiss, however, if I didn't thank you for a very interesting discussion, even though I don't agree with you.
 

CezarIgnat

New member
Jul 5, 2009
142
0
0
ThunderCavalier said:
So... it just occurs to me...

After reading this thread, can someone explain to me exactly WHY Windows 8 is(n't) the coming of the OS devil? Because... I'm really confused here. All I keep seeing from this is back and forth arguments about Metro (which lost me) and praising/bashing of Notch and other contemporaries listed as voicing their complaints about Windows 8.
People seem to believe that Metro and Windows's Store will all be mandatory to install games and/or applications. That's not true, seeing as I am using Win8 right now and I can do anything I bloody wish to.

But people love to jump on the "I h8 Micro$oft" bandwagon. Someone pointed out that using the windows store you could buy an "app" that you can have on PC and tablet. I can see why some developers wouldn't want that, because they would loose a sale. And I think it's pretty clear why STEAM doesn't want Win Store...they would have another digital distribution system to fight.
 

TomWiley

New member
Jul 20, 2012
352
0
0
ThunderCavalier said:
So... it just occurs to me...

After reading this thread, can someone explain to me exactly WHY Windows 8 is(n't) the coming of the OS devil? Because... I'm really confused here. All I keep seeing from this is back and forth arguments about Metro (which lost me) and praising/bashing of Notch and other contemporaries listed as voicing their complaints about Windows 8.
I have no idea. Frankly, I just think it's tech-hysteria and journalistic sensationalism. The operating system hasn't bloody been released yet. It just went into RTM like yesterday. Can't we at least wait until we've tried it before we declare it the antichirst of gaming.
 

Treblaine

New member
Jul 25, 2008
8,682
0
0
TomWiley said:
Treblaine said:
I very clearly said what is 'literally' interpreted as "Minecraft is a hoax" so with sarcasm the opposite:
No ambiguity statement said:
It's worth considering that Minecraft does exist and is hugely successful in sales, how much people actually play it and investment in time people make as evidenced by the many videos on youtube.
Happy now? Do you understand?
I understand perfectly. It's just that I think at this point it's just best that we agree to disagree. I mean, if you believe that Minecraft is a hoax, there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Personally, I don't believe in your theory, but I respect that you have that opinion just like I'm sure you respect mine.

Now, after discussing this issue for a while I'm pretty sure we aren't gonna get anywhere. I would be remiss, however, if I didn't thank you for a very interesting discussion, even though I don't agree with you.



No you don't understand or you are just claiming you don't understand. Either way I cannot possibly care if you don't understand sarcasm or you refuse to recognise it when you do understand it.

But you have shown how much your opinion is worth on the "Notch is just an attention whore" by this ridiculousness.
 

walrusaurus

New member
Mar 1, 2011
595
0
0
Torrasque said:
Wait. There could be a day in the foreseeable future, when Apple OS is preferred over Windows OS?! Wow, that'll be the day.
MIscrosoft: taking apples ideas and making them shittier since 1985!

In all seriousness though; Apples OS has been better from an end-user-experience standpoint, and a technical one since the end of the XP era. The only reason why it isn't more popular than it is, is because of the price and lack of third party software support. Thats why i have a PC now instead of a mac. If windows 8 kills Microsoft software advantage the way everyone is saying it will, then i will jump at the opportunity to switch back to a mac.
 

Treblaine

New member
Jul 25, 2008
8,682
0
0
Jack and Calumon said:
If Todd Howard pops out his head now and calls it shit, then who's left?
We still have to hear from John Carmack and maybe Ken Levine.

DeltasDix said:
Since when was Todd Howard a PC gaming heavyweight?
Since Elder Scrolls? Since Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, New Vegas and Skyrim? Since he became a regular speaker at DICE conferences and other conferences giving candid insight on games development and the industry?

Some might say he is more console focused, but he pushed for Skyrim to be integrated with Steamworks mod-sharing capability on PC, it's parent company Zenimax caving to Microsoft's exclusivity demands who have been screwing PC.
 

koroem

New member
Jul 12, 2010
307
0
0
SextusMaximus said:
koroem said:
Why does this site leg hump everything this man says. Get over him Escapist writers. He isn't news.
Grats for totally missing the point;)
I don't think I missed any points that weren't already made by people with more credibility then Notch. They guy is an attention whore who tweets nonstop and people repost it as if his opinion really matters. He made one game. ONE GAME that was a smash success and now throws money around like it is nothing, and talks about throwing money around like it is nothing. I don't think that qualifies him to be the authoritative voice of all things indy, the way he is currently being treated.

When he makes a few more hit games and really builds his company and portfolio to a point that isn't riding one success I'll give him more respect. Until then, him jumping on the Window 8 hate bandwagon isn't news.
 

OldNewNewOld

New member
Mar 2, 2011
1,494
0
0
MS making the Windows a closed platform like Apple does is actually a real possibility.
Closing the PC games marked, or at least lowering it would (theoretically) increase the console market and we all know that MS wants that. More xbox user, more XBL subscribers.

If you want to play games, you have to buy the xbox (or other console) and you will still have a Windows PC or laptop because it's mandatory in this age.

It's a win-win for MS, while a lose-lose for everyone else.
 

Tim Chuma

New member
Jul 9, 2010
236
0
0
Why bother to try and lock down the OS now, should have done it 20 years ago. The horse has not only bolted, it has won the Grand National. May as well call it Windows "Black Caviar" and be done with it.

Blindy copying what Apple does is not going to work this time, people are used to being able to run their own applications on the PC and even developing their own. I still have a copy of C++ for Windows 3.11 (with added General Protection Faults).
 

lord.jeff

New member
Oct 27, 2010
1,468
0
0
gigastar said:
Megacherv said:
For fuck's sake, Windows 8 is not going to be Metro only. Everything I have tried (except for MagicDisc, but that was on a much older preview) works perfectly fine, I've been using Win8 for gaming for months and it's brilliant. There is still a desktop with Aero-ish UI (it's been graphically updated to look more Metro-ish) and it will still support x86 programs.

Everyone calm the fuck down.
I think we both now that no matter how often or loud you voice yourself on the subject, people are going to keep doomsaying until the retail version comes out and everything turns out to be fine.
I missed the gaming doomsday prophecies, I don't remember having a good big miss hysteria sense, I think Dragon Age 2 was the last one.