Notch: Windows 8 Could Be "Very Very Bad" for Indies

[sapphireofthesea]

2. In built connection to a store...FOR A PEICE OF SOFTWARE I ALREADY FUCKING BOUGHT, you are going to clog things up, make me do fucking work to get something I paid money to do what I want it to do without it wasting resources on running a connection to a store, ON A PEICE OF SOFTWARE I ALREADY BOUGHT. (I am not a fan of being fucked with advertising after I have been decent enough to pay a company for a service, recently left McAfee after 4 years of happiness for this very reason)

3. If it brings very little to the table appart from a connection to a fucking inhouse store (will drop the agro at some point), what is the point of PAYING for this feature and suffering the loss in resources need to run it. And if I am just to disable it, what's the bloody point?

4. Notch and others are refering to program restrictions that are likely to come as part of this in house store (think what happened with D3 in trying this). If MS want to have it they will NEED to make it worth using which means ensuring it is the best option.

5. I re-iterate, I AM PAYING THEM MONEY, WHY THE HELL SHOULD I PAY FOR THE PRIVELAGE OF BEING ADVERTISED TO?

Care to explain what the donkey-flipping fuck you're on about?

That whole number 2 paragraph I quoted? I can't even parse it. What work is going to be forced upon you because you have the option of buying from a digital store? Wasting what resources?

There are no ads in Win8. If you open up the store app, then there will be things to buy on display, as well as things to download for free. Its like Apple's App Store and Google's Android Marketplace, scaled up.

I want you to imagine Windows 7, ok? You're with me so far? Make a background from a uniform colour, make all your icons into coloured squares and add an icon named store.

There. Windows 8. Everything still works the way it used to, except your start button is full screen with square buttons and there's one of those labelled "store". You don't have to use it. It's like Internet Explorer; It's there for people who don't know better. Do you know better? Then congrats, don't use it! Install Firefox, Chrome or Opera the same way you've been doing all these years and install any other software you want however you want to!

You know what the best Metro App is? It's called desktop, where you and all the software you love can continue to exist!

I agree that Metro is kind of silly, but you know what the biggest criticism Microsoft has been getting since Apple started making fun of them? It's not intuitive enough. And so much of the shit that's been directed at them stems from that; people don't know that the fuck they're doing and they blame Windows for being a pile of shit. Metro is the answer to that. Big colourful square and pre-approved software from a central distribution source. So easy a child can use it! And now they're getting some fresh shit for that.

And you know, Windows 7 still exists. You don't have to upgrade so save your money and anger and just ignore Win 8 if you don't care for it.

I installed Windows 8 on a Vista system and it runs so much faster than Vista. That's sad, that shows just how piss poor Vista was. When a 2012 OS runs faster on 2006 hardware than an OS that came out in 2006.

An OS with 6 years worth of optimization runs faster?? Stop the presses!
Yes, Vista got kind of bloated (nowhere near as bad as the reaction to it), but it was a necessary step, with a new kernel and new features with some rough edges that were then made smoother in the next version.
They couldn't just skip right ahead and optimize Vista into Win7 and not release shit for 3 years.

Still souns like the system is there for the sake of the store. Why should it even be on a operating system to sart with. It would be like having a phone in a car directly linked to Honda in case you want to buy something else. And if it is a useable program you can bet oney it is running something in the background.
I aid money to he a program to sort running my system, NOT to have any sort of software to purchase anything, which seems to be one of the core concepts in windows 8.

 

[Imper1um]

Iunno, Windows 8 is the "weak chain." It's always been that way...

Windows 3.1 was a great step up.
The various versions in between were really crap.
Windows 95 was good.
Windows NT 4.0 sucked because they borked moving from FAT32 easily, and it was made only for server owners.
Windows 98 was a nice step up, but just really a large update to 95.
Windows ME was the worst piece of shit in the world.
Windows XP was a surprisingly amazing upgrade.
Windows Vista was the 2nd worst launch in the world, and they dropped it as soon as...
Windows 7 was the most surprising install ever, which worked amazing.

So, naturally, Windows 8 will be the worst ever. They will figure out what went wrong, then Windows 9 will be awesome.

 

[Agente L]

I wonder when exactly notch became such an important celebrity that everything he says is to be taken seriously and raised as a primary concern.

Being fair, I'm not follong Windows 8 development, so I'm not sure if he's talking the truth or not.

 

[halobolola]

Anyone that has used win 8, will realise that the os is a bad decision for anyone, not just game devs.

there is no chance that i will upgrade (more like downgrade) to win8. even thinking about not geting a surface tablet.

 

[Kungfu_Teddybear]

I think Windows 8 could just be very, very bad in general. Windows 7 is good, so by Microsoft tradition Windows 8 has to be bad.

 

[Epona]

Vista should have never been released, it should have been fixed (Windows 7) before it was released.

In the grand scheme of things and with the benefit of hindsight, you're right.
But like I said, there was no way they could hold off on a new OS for another 3 years when they had already waited too long for Vista. They just had to release it.

On 2006 hardware, Vista should run better than a 2012 operating system on 6 year old hardware. If you can't see that then I don't what else to tell you. It's like Windows XP running better on 6 year old hardware than Windows 95 did.

Vista was a bloated mess and it still is today even after all the updates. Anyone thinking that "Vista wasn't really bad" needs to share their meds.

You're getting hung up on the years. "2006 hardware" doesn't mean anything. Let me rephrase what you're saying: With the exact same hardware, version 6.2 should perform worse than version 6.0.
Do you see what's weird with that statement? (Yep, Windows Vista is NT kernel 6.0, Win7 is NT kernel 6.1 and Win8 is NT kernel 6.2)
And fuck no, Win95 vs WinXP is completely irrelevant because those are years when technology was still moving furiously fast; You see, a computer with a Core 2 Duo and 2GBs or RAM from 2006 can still run roughly what we run today, but a computer from 1996 (we had one) could not run jack shit made 2 years later. That doesn't happen so much today. Do you remember Crysis and how "But can it run Crysis?" was a funny joke about computers? Well that was 2007. Five years ago. And a single GPU will still struggle to max it out.

I never had a problem with Vista on 3 computers and I wasn't on anything. Vista was not, in fact, "really bad", but you're coming at me like I proclaim it to be fantastic. I'm not; It was acceptable.

People shitting on it are drinking the opposite kool-aid that makes people think OSX is the shit. Vista was totally functional, but system builders were slapping Vista-ready stickers on woefully inadequate hardware, and hardware manufacturers that were supposed to deliver new compatible device drivers for the new kernel had their thumbs up their asses long enough to piss a whole lot of people off.

Yes, they could have held off on releasing Vista as evidenced by the fact that most people ignored it and just kept on using XP. When Windows 7 came out, many people were happy to upgrade to a "Vista that works".

Vista was really bad and it's too bad you can't see that, many people saw it in 2006 and have known it since then.

 

[Epona]

The Aero UI and other Windows 7 features are still present in Windows 8. It's more like a Cross Platform system has been added to the Operating System. All the the original functions that Windows XP/7 had. I have the preview on my Desktop, and it's running everything fine. It's Metro is designed to be more closed off, because it's meant to communicate between Microsoft's other devices, like the Windows Phone and the XBox 360 (Cross Platform Gaming, anyone?)

But much like GFWL beforehand, nothing forces you to develop for it. Steam can continue to be Steam the way it's always been, Origin can continue to be Origin, and everyone else can still be everyone else.

Or, in simpler terms:

Gabe Newell: THE WORLD IS ENDING!
Notch: The world might be ending... not sure yet.

Steam can continue to be Steam until Windows 9 where the Metro option is the only option?

Metro is closed off because they want to make a "console shell" for PC's where they can charge license fees. I'll bet that they want to make the entire Windows OS be that console shell in time, could be Windows 9 or it could be Windows 12 but it's coming. Hopefully by the time Microsoft turns Windows into a console, there will be better alternatives.

This is nothing more than paranoia and speculation.

Yes, it's speculation and what do you suppose Microsoft wants to do?

- Have a 100% licensed based OS
- Not have a 100% licensed based OS

I assure you, they WANT the first option and they are gradually going for it.

 

[Doom972]

If Win8 will be as bad as they say it'll be, we can always just ignore it until it goes away. No one is forcing people to upgrade.
If Direct-X 12 will be exclusive to it, developers can just not use it. If some Win8 exclusive games will come out, there's always the option of multi-boot.

 

[Treblaine]

I thought you meant to sarcastically say how Minecraft is *not* a CIA hoax, thus indirectly implying that it *is* a CIA hoax, to which I replied by pointing out the obvious, namely that it's a literal impossibility that Minecraft is a hoax.

Quit honestly, I'm surprised you don't see the gaping logical impossibilities in that conspiracy theory yourself. Because there is no way Minecraft could be a hoax. Someone would have noticed.

I very clearly said what is 'literally' interpreted as "Minecraft is a hoax" so with sarcasm the opposite:

In fact Minecraft doesn't even exist, it's all a hoax made to serve pointless Notch worship. All those youtube videos, all faked by the CIA. (THIS IS SARCASM)

I reiterated the same thing three times, with clear SARCASM labels, and showed the quote to you a second time and highlighted in in bold, and yet here I have to show you WHAT I SAID yet again yet somehow you conclude the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I said.

Have you not slept in 72 hours or something? Why are you so incapable of comprehending this simple thing, apply rational thought before posting.

The point that flew completely over your head was that Notch is not a talent-less celebrity who is only famous for being famous (like Kardashians), he has ACTUALLY DONE SOMETHING that means people pay attention to him: Minecraft. Minecraft is real, it is popular, he made it. That is why people pay attention to what he says.

This is a poetic technique that seem to be too much for you so let me give you the lowest common denominator version that there is no chance of you misconstruing:

So what if he has a twitter account, he is not some no-talent Kardashian attention whore, he is an award winning programmer and a very successful independent entrepreneurial developer, that means he has something relevant to say about this not just attention whoring. His comments have been on topic, not self-obsessed like ACTUAL attention-whores who only talk about themselves.
He is very well informed and smart who makes up his own mind with well thought out logic, it is very interesting to consider what he says which is more definitely not simply parroting blindly what others say.
It's also spurious the assumption that if other experts air the same concerns then that confirms a theory of attention whores blindly repeating. That's a conformational bias.

It's worth considering that Minecraft does exist and is hugely successful in sales, how much people actually play it and investment in time people make as evidenced by the many videos on youtube. Notch is not worshipped like a Pharaoh, he is admired as an inspirational games developer. Nothing more.


I think it's a mealy mouthed attack you denigrate his warning as attention whoring. Such suggestions that he is an attention whore should be mocked with sarcasm.

Happy now? Do you understand?

 

[Ukomba]

I only upgrade every other windows anyways, so I'm not planning on ever getting windows 8.

 

[Merlark]

The simple answer is not to Buy Windows 8 or upgrade to it, the people murdered vista right out of the box. the same will likely happen to 8 at this rate. Microsoft only cares about money.

Also yes, screw notch. he made one game thats good in his life, that doesn't make him Shigeru 'friggen Miyamoto. In fact I won't even give him that, he didn't make a good game, the fans did it for him.

Who's playing stock minecraft with no mods? who's playing on a server with no admin tinkering? None of that is from Notch. The community puts more in the game i a day then his "Team" puts into MC in 6 months.

Oh well, at least he isn't as mouthy as that angry birds idiot.

 

[ThunderCavalier]

So... it just occurs to me...

After reading this thread, can someone explain to me exactly WHY Windows 8 is(n't) the coming of the OS devil? Because... I'm really confused here. All I keep seeing from this is back and forth arguments about Metro (which lost me) and praising/bashing of Notch and other contemporaries listed as voicing their complaints about Windows 8.

 

[TomWiley]

I thought you meant to sarcastically say how Minecraft is *not* a CIA hoax, thus indirectly implying that it *is* a CIA hoax, to which I replied by pointing out the obvious, namely that it's a literal impossibility that Minecraft is a hoax.

Quit honestly, I'm surprised you don't see the gaping logical impossibilities in that conspiracy theory yourself. Because there is no way Minecraft could be a hoax. Someone would have noticed.

I very clearly said what is 'literally' interpreted as "Minecraft is a hoax" so with sarcasm the opposite:

In fact Minecraft doesn't even exist, it's all a hoax made to serve pointless Notch worship. All those youtube videos, all faked by the CIA. (THIS IS SARCASM)

I reiterated the same thing three times, with clear SARCASM labels, and showed the quote to you a second time and highlighted in in bold, and yet here I have to show you WHAT I SAID yet again yet somehow you conclude the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I said.

Have you not slept in 72 hours or something? Why are you so incapable of comprehending this simple thing, apply rational thought before posting.

The point that flew completely over your head was that Notch is not a talent-less celebrity who is only famous for being famous (like Kardashians), he has ACTUALLY DONE SOMETHING that means people pay attention to him: Minecraft. Minecraft is real, it is popular, he made it. That is why people pay attention to what he says.

This is a poetic technique that seem to be too much for you so let me give you the lowest common denominator version that there is no chance of you misconstruing:

So what if he has a twitter account, he is not some no-talent Kardashian attention whore, he is an award winning programmer and a very successful independent entrepreneurial developer, that means he has something relevant to say about this not just attention whoring. His comments have been on topic, not self-obsessed like ACTUAL attention-whores who only talk about themselves.
He is very well informed and smart who makes up his own mind with well thought out logic, it is very interesting to consider what he says which is more definitely not simply parroting blindly what others say.
It's also spurious the assumption that if other experts air the same concerns then that confirms a theory of attention whores blindly repeating. That's a conformational bias.

It's worth considering that Minecraft does exist and is hugely successful in sales, how much people actually play it and investment in time people make as evidenced by the many videos on youtube. Notch is not worshipped like a Pharaoh, he is admired as an inspirational games developer. Nothing more.


I think it's a mealy mouthed attack you denigrate his warning as attention whoring. Such suggestions that he is an attention whore should be mocked with sarcasm.

Happy now? Do you understand?

I understand perfectly. It's just that I think at this point it's just best that we agree to disagree. I mean, if you believe that Minecraft is a hoax, there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Personally, I don't believe in your theory, but I respect that you have that opinion just like I'm sure you respect mine.

Now, after discussing this issue for a while I'm pretty sure we aren't gonna get anywhere. I would be remiss, however, if I didn't thank you for a very interesting discussion, even though I don't agree with you.

 

[CezarIgnat]

So... it just occurs to me...

After reading this thread, can someone explain to me exactly WHY Windows 8 is(n't) the coming of the OS devil? Because... I'm really confused here. All I keep seeing from this is back and forth arguments about Metro (which lost me) and praising/bashing of Notch and other contemporaries listed as voicing their complaints about Windows 8.

People seem to believe that Metro and Windows's Store will all be mandatory to install games and/or applications. That's not true, seeing as I am using Win8 right now and I can do anything I bloody wish to.

But people love to jump on the "I h8 Micro$oft" bandwagon. Someone pointed out that using the windows store you could buy an "app" that you can have on PC and tablet. I can see why some developers wouldn't want that, because they would loose a sale. And I think it's pretty clear why STEAM doesn't want Win Store...they would have another digital distribution system to fight.

 

[TomWiley]

So... it just occurs to me...

After reading this thread, can someone explain to me exactly WHY Windows 8 is(n't) the coming of the OS devil? Because... I'm really confused here. All I keep seeing from this is back and forth arguments about Metro (which lost me) and praising/bashing of Notch and other contemporaries listed as voicing their complaints about Windows 8.

I have no idea. Frankly, I just think it's tech-hysteria and journalistic sensationalism. The operating system hasn't bloody been released yet. It just went into RTM like yesterday. Can't we at least wait until we've tried it before we declare it the antichirst of gaming.

 

[Treblaine]

I very clearly said what is 'literally' interpreted as "Minecraft is a hoax" so with sarcasm the opposite:

It's worth considering that Minecraft does exist and is hugely successful in sales, how much people actually play it and investment in time people make as evidenced by the many videos on youtube.

Happy now? Do you understand?

I understand perfectly. It's just that I think at this point it's just best that we agree to disagree. I mean, if you believe that Minecraft is a hoax, there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Personally, I don't believe in your theory, but I respect that you have that opinion just like I'm sure you respect mine.

Now, after discussing this issue for a while I'm pretty sure we aren't gonna get anywhere. I would be remiss, however, if I didn't thank you for a very interesting discussion, even though I don't agree with you.

No you don't understand or you are just claiming you don't understand. Either way I cannot possibly care if you don't understand sarcasm or you refuse to recognise it when you do understand it.

But you have shown how much your opinion is worth on the "Notch is just an attention whore" by this ridiculousness.

 

[walrusaurus]

Wait. There could be a day in the foreseeable future, when Apple OS is preferred over Windows OS?! Wow, that'll be the day.

MIscrosoft: taking apples ideas and making them shittier since 1985!

In all seriousness though; Apples OS has been better from an end-user-experience standpoint, and a technical one since the end of the XP era. The only reason why it isn't more popular than it is, is because of the price and lack of third party software support. Thats why i have a PC now instead of a mac. If windows 8 kills Microsoft software advantage the way everyone is saying it will, then i will jump at the opportunity to switch back to a mac.

 

[Treblaine]

If Todd Howard pops out his head now and calls it shit, then who's left?

We still have to hear from John Carmack and maybe Ken Levine.

Since when was Todd Howard a PC gaming heavyweight?

Since Elder Scrolls? Since Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, New Vegas and Skyrim? Since he became a regular speaker at DICE conferences and other conferences giving candid insight on games development and the industry?

Some might say he is more console focused, but he pushed for Skyrim to be integrated with Steamworks mod-sharing capability on PC, it's parent company Zenimax caving to Microsoft's exclusivity demands who have been screwing PC.

 

[koroem]

Why does this site leg hump everything this man says. Get over him Escapist writers. He isn't news.

Grats for totally missing the point

I don't think I missed any points that weren't already made by people with more credibility then Notch. They guy is an attention whore who tweets nonstop and people repost it as if his opinion really matters. He made one game. ONE GAME that was a smash success and now throws money around like it is nothing, and talks about throwing money around like it is nothing. I don't think that qualifies him to be the authoritative voice of all things indy, the way he is currently being treated.

When he makes a few more hit games and really builds his company and portfolio to a point that isn't riding one success I'll give him more respect. Until then, him jumping on the Window 8 hate bandwagon isn't news.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

MS making the Windows a closed platform like Apple does is actually a real possibility.
Closing the PC games marked, or at least lowering it would (theoretically) increase the console market and we all know that MS wants that. More xbox user, more XBL subscribers.

If you want to play games, you have to buy the xbox (or other console) and you will still have a Windows PC or laptop because it's mandatory in this age.

It's a win-win for MS, while a lose-lose for everyone else.