(NSFW) Assassin's Creed: Unisexity

otakon17

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Legion said:
byte4554 said:
For the love of...It's one guy. ONE GUY. THERE IS NO FEMALE CHOICE BECAUSE IT'S ONE CHARACTER! ADDING A FEMALE PLAYER CHARACTER WOULD MEAN ADDING A SECOND PROTAGONIST.

Sorry. It's just that every thread and every single comic and every single video ignores this fact. It's not that they hate women, it's that they didn't want a second protagonist.
Whereas yourself and many others are choosing to ignore the fact that Ubisoft have explicitly stated that they did want a female character but it was too resource intensive to do so.

Assassin's Creed Unity's four-player co-op will not offer female assassins due to the pressures of production work, Ubisoft creative director Alex Amancio told Polygon during a recent interview.

Amancio said that though female assassins were planned for the game, Ubisoft ran into "the reality of production."

"It's double the animations, it's double the voices, all that stuff and double the visual assets," Amancio said. "Especially because we have customizable assassins. It was really a lot of extra production work."

In the game's co-op mode, players will have custom gear but always view themselves as Arno, Unity's star. Friends are displayed as different characters with the faces of other assassins.

"Because of that, the common denominator was Arno," Amancio said. "It's not like we could cut our main character, so the only logical option, the only option we had, was to cut the female avatar."

Speaking with Polygon during a different interview, level designer Bruno St-André estimated more than 8,000 animations would have had to be recreated on a different skeleton.

"We started, but we had to drop it," St-André said. "I cannot speak for the future of the brand, but it was dear to the production team, so you can expect that it will happen eventually in the brand."
Okay, beyond models and voices, I don't get the issue. How would female models have different animations? I mean seriously, last time I checked a good majority of women can move exactly the same as men. It's not like they're quadrupeds or something foreign. Ubisoft is just being a bunch of lazy fucks is all there is to it.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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I'm really disappointed that this is the only entry under the "a steaming pile of horseshit" tag. Get on it escapist.

Also, who the hell does that suit guy remind me of? Is it maybe a cross between Matthew Perry Neil Patrick Harris? Can't unsee.
 

weirdee

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for not nerds:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Leading_the_People
 

Saippua

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Legion said:
Requia said:
Legion said:
Whereas yourself and many others are choosing to ignore the fact that Ubisoft have explicitly stated that they did want a female character but it was too resource intensive to do so.
Didn't one of the devs come out and say this was bullshit?
One of the people whose job it was to actually do that kind of animation and so on supposedly did, yes. The person who originally claimed it was too resource intensive was somebody higher up in the company.

youji itami said:
Yeah Ubisoft is so rich!

https://www.ubisoftgroup.com/comsite_common/en-US/images/d20140515031323ubisoft%20fy14%20earnings%20english%20finaltcm99143198.pdf

oh look Ubisoft lost ?65 million last year.
Yet they can still afford to make yearly Assassin Creed titles. Losing a lot of money doesn't mean much if you still have even more in the bank. If that ?65 million was enough to cause them problems they wouldn't be releasing two Triple A games this year, they'd be cutting back.

If they can afford eight studios to work on a single game, then they are also clearly okay financially overall.
They cant afford not to make AC, its one of their few cashcows, do you not know how capitalism works? They dont make games for fun
 

Schadrach

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88chaz88 said:
Schadrach said:
And now you want them to do the kind of work that actually adding a new character usually entails?
Yes? Is that really so much to ask for one of the world's largest and financially able publishers to not only include some gender diversity in their game but also accomplish what their original vision of the game?
They're cutting corners on the existing characters by using one model/animation set across the group, all I'm saying is that if they aren't putting in the effort to bother with actually making multiple models with multiple animation sets at all, why complain specifically that none of them are female? It seems like "too lazy to make the co-op characters look meaningfully different at all because that takes effort", something that is itself a superset of "none of my assassin options have a vagina" is the actual underlying problem. A problem that ultimately amounts to doing the bare minimum they can get away with and still sell the feature they want to sell.

For an analogy, imagine I'm a car maker who only makes one model of car, a sedan. You're complaining that I won't sell you a pickup with the right options, while I'm unwilling to even consider a different style of sedan (because that requires some effort on my part and you'll buy whatever car I sell anyways, so why should I spend the money/time/effort?) though I do offer that sedan in four colors.

Company that can make bank while being lazy will make bank while being lazy. Only fix is for it to hurt them in the sales. Because whether or not it hurts you in the feels is irrelevant unless it hurts them in the sales.

Flatfrog said:
Schadrach said:
Aren't all of them just reskins anyways?
Oh for goodness' sake. We call them naive americans now.
That was a terrible, terrible joke. You are bad and should feel bad.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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w00tage said:
This sounds perfectly logical, if it weren't for all of the other game studios that do exactly this as a matter of course. Creating a female character and having them share the animations n'stuff is absolutely commonplace and it's BS that they said "waaahh we don't have enough money".
Other games manage because having high quality animation isn't particularly important. In Skyrim, all human characters use the same animations across the board and they generally look fairly bad. Stabbings where you never actually touched them with the knife or sword are common. Acting, such that it is, is incredibly wooden - a fact that has generated more than one meme. To this day there are people working for free to modify those art assets that Bethesda had years to work on.

By contrast, if you want a female playable character in that universe, you can't get away with just swapping the models. Clipping errors and graphical glitches would be fantastically common not to mention the simple fact that in any cut scene, having the female character do exactly what the male character does would be off putting and more importantly calls into question why you'd want the female character in the first place.

Now, that is obviously a readily solved problem. After all, they have artists of all stripes. But time and resources are limited and bear in mind what Ubisoft wants is to make a profit and importantly have that profit delivered within a certain window during the fiscal year. Ultimately that means they are going to spend money to purchase time and even with a large budget you can surely understand you'll have a finite amount of time to spend. Thus, when budgeting the time, what benefit is there to spending a huge chunk of that time budget adding a playable female when that time could be spent doing literally anything else (some of which could offer additional revenue streams)?

That of course leads to your next point.

w00tage said:
News flash to game developers, if players WANT something,
Players, which I will substitute for consumers, do not know what they want. If you ask them they simply say "that thing I liked but more so". To famously misquote Ford, if he gave the consumers what they wanted we'd just have a faster horse. That's just a blanket statement of course and not particularly directed at your comment. It's just a general observation.

w00tage said:
and you want the player's MONEY, you GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT.
When players buy millions of copies of the next game they will have demonstrated the fundamental flaw of this line of reasoning. People are going to buy this game. Lots and lots of copies. They will also buy the DLC - millions of downloads worth easily. This thus proves that people will buy something even if it isn't exactly what they want. Unless, of course, they somehow don't sell millions of copies and somehow consumers manage to consistently assert that they refused to make the purchase because of the gender thing. Then they might manage to make a point.

w00tage said:
That is the secret to making money versus losing money, Ubisoft.
Ubisoft has consistently made money on the franchise in spite of everything from DRM that made Assassin's Creed 2 all but unplayable on PC to having one of the more disgusting DLC strategies out there. They thus seem to understand perfectly well how to grind money from their audience.

w00tage said:
Trying to cheap out =/= making money, it == saving money. But you kind of have to prioritize making it in the first place, know what I'm saying?
Saving money is making money.

Consider the following easy scenario. Say I have a game that cost 30 million dollars to make and 50 million dollars to market. This game sells 10 million copies and I receive 30 dollars per copy. I have brought in 300 million in revenue but I spent 80 million to get that revenue. Thus my profit is 220 million dollars.

Now, say I take that same 30 million dollar game and that same 50 million dollar marketing budget and I decide I want to add a female playable character and have determined (based on what it took to make the male character) that it would cost about 6 million dollars that I will spend on writing and recording new dialog, custom animations for the female characters and lots of re-animation of existing scenes not to mention models and 2d art. My game now cost a total of 86m million dollars to make and thus in order to receive the same profit, I need to make 306 million dollars. The question becomes (in this case), do I think that this change will increase sales by at least 200,000 copies? Because if it does not increase sales, I have effectively reduced my net profit.

That is a big part of why things get cut. At some point a studio tries to figure out how important some feature or item might be and if it is determined that it isn't cost effective, it gets cut.

There is, of course, a different way to approach this problem - just make the player character female from the start. That would still require more work than using a male character (especially an established male character) but it would allow more resources to be directed to the natural end of having a good game built around a good character. Of course, the problem here is that there is a fairly well documented problem that games with female leads tend to not sell well. That may, of course, just be because most of those games weren't particularly good but regardless it's been cited as true by more than one industry leader.
 

Flatfrog

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Schadrach said:
Flatfrog said:
Schadrach said:
Aren't all of them just reskins anyways?
Oh for goodness' sake. We call them naive americans now.
That was a terrible, terrible joke. You are bad and should feel bad.
I know I should, and yet all I can muster is glee. Punning is a terrible vice but I can't help myself.
 

Erttheking

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Weaver said:
Why does everyone think "resources" mean money instead of time? I've rambled on about this on the forums enough but I guess every journalist out there knows way more about how easy it is to make games than the people who actually make them.
If that's the case than Ubisoft is still at fault for rushing out sequels.
 

AdagioBoognish

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88chaz88 said:
youji itami said:
Yeah Ubisoft is so rich!

https://www.ubisoftgroup.com/comsite_common/en-US/images/d20140515031323ubisoft%20fy14%20earnings%20english%20finaltcm99143198.pdf

oh look Ubisoft lost ?65 million last year.
So they're able to lose ?65 million?

Yeah, that's pretty rich.
Yeah, it's like he didn't read this part of that pdf - Annual sales: ?1,007 million
 

Something Amyss

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canadamus_prime said:
Of course they can't afford to put in females, they blew all their money on cocaine and hookers.
Which, ironically, was their "research" into female character modeling.

byte4554 said:
For the love of...It's one guy. ONE GUY. THERE IS NO FEMALE CHOICE BECAUSE IT'S ONE CHARACTER! ADDING A FEMALE PLAYER CHARACTER WOULD MEAN ADDING A SECOND PROTAGONIST.
I'm not sure I've seen anyone ask for a second protagonist in the game, though. Only what is effectively MP avatars. People "ignore" your complaint because it isn't relevant.

Further, there is no female choice, supposedly, because of time and budget constraints.

PirateRose said:
That's what I thought to, but apparently they had borrowed most of Conner's animations for Aveline. More than they did for Edward in fact.

Which is ever so much more damning.
Have they ever solely used distinctly "female" animations in a game anyway? The animations I've seen don't look that way. It looks like they've been recycling male animations, and thus far there hasn't been an outcry.

Hell, GTA Online still has sexual animations for the female characters and they haven't been tarred and feathered yet. I mean, it's mildly amusing to think that my character receives oral sex exactly like a male character does, but no more so than it is to think that she showers in a swimsuit.

More to the point, though, I wonder if ay of the games with recycled animations have caught flak for it.
 

Something Amyss

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AdagioBoognish said:
Yeah, it's like he didn't read this part of that pdf - Annual sales: ?1,007 million
I'm more interested in the part where they're predicting a return to profitability in the double digits, predominantly on the back of games like this.

Weaver said:
Why does everyone think "resources" mean money instead of time? I've rambled on about this on the forums enough but I guess every journalist out there knows way more about how easy it is to make games than the people who actually make them.
Are you referring to the comic itself? Because CM portrayed it as "work," so it hardly seems relevant.
 

Lord_Gremlin

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byte4554 said:
For the love of...It's one guy. ONE GUY. THERE IS NO FEMALE CHOICE BECAUSE IT'S ONE CHARACTER! ADDING A FEMALE PLAYER CHARACTER WOULD MEAN ADDING A SECOND PROTAGONIST.

Sorry. It's just that every thread and every single comic and every single video ignores this fact. It's not that they hate women, it's that they didn't want a second protagonist.
Yes. This is the issue: they make a 4 player co-op but they are too lazy to actually offer a selection of characters, male, female or otherwise. They just put 4 clones on screen. This is lazy and cheap.
 

Shamanic Rhythm

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PirateRose said:
infinity_turtles said:
The multi-player mode is everyone playing as the protagonist. There is only the one character. It's co-op through the main story, where everyone plays the same character. I don't know how many times people need to say this. One. Set. playable. Character. In the entire game. Just the one.
So if I am understanding you correctly, all four of those men are all the same white, probably straight, dude? Absolutely no creativity at all and player limiting to the extreme. That whole thing on the Ubisoft website about being able to customize the characters are just so people don't get confused since they are all playing the same white, straight dude?

I mean, really what's the point of co-op if everyone is playing the exact same white, straight dude? What's the lore behind it? Did the assassins secretly figure out cloning? Are they from four different dimensions? Do they all somehow have the exact same personality so that they don't disturb the over arching story meant for a single protagonist.

This game is sounding worse and worse the more people try to explain and defend it. The reason people love co-op such as in Gears of War and Left for Dead is because there are various personalities and people to pick from.
Seconded. Co-op where everyone is the same character is just lazy in this day and age, and no amount of lore bullshit from Ubisoft can excuse it.

I constantly wish they had just made a historical series without all the futurist-conspiracy-pseudoscience-alien rubbish they attached to it as a piss-poor excuse for a meta-narrative.
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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Legion said:
The Wooster said:
One of the richest developers in the world, helming one of the most successful franchises in gaming history, claims a lack of resources means game won't have said feature.
That is what makes it such a terrible excuse. They also had something like eight studios working on the last Assassins Creed game so they clearly aren't lacking for staff either. This is not forgetting the fact that they spend a ridiculous amount of money on advertising despite not really needing it due to how well known the series is.

Sometimes I think the CEO of Ubisoft and EA are having a private bet to see who can gain the most hate from idiotic statements.
At least EA can see the profit I'm including feeeeeemales...even if they are ferengi

But yeah I've said time and time again ass creed is the PERFECT platform for a female protagonist...not this game even just another one not relegated to a handheld
 

RJ 17

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Nov 27, 2011
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Awwwwwww, this would have been the PERFECT comic to call in the WGDF for! They could even be assassins this time!

Captcha: "Broken Heart"
Pretty much describes me due to the lack of WGDF to match my expectations when I clicked the link to the comic.
 

Something Amyss

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RJ 17 said:
Awwwwwww, this would have been the PERFECT comic to call in the WGDF for! They could even be assassins this time!

Captcha: "Broken Heart"
Pretty much describes me due to the lack of WGDF to match my expectations when I clicked the link to the comic.
They got put in the friend zone this week.
 

RJ 17

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Zachary Amaranth said:
RJ 17 said:
Awwwwwww, this would have been the PERFECT comic to call in the WGDF for! They could even be assassins this time!

Captcha: "Broken Heart"
Pretty much describes me due to the lack of WGDF to match my expectations when I clicked the link to the comic.
They got put in the friend zone this week.
Well considering that, my status is now euphoric.
 

Something Amyss

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Vault101 said:
At least EA can see the profit I'm including feeeeeemales...even if they are ferengi
Oh! So many potential jokes in that, and I'm ashamed of all of them!

But on a more serious note, I do like the fact that women have infiltrated[footnote]You know, like an assassin? Get it?[/footnote] games from both EA and Activision, the big evil companies who are only concerned with the bottom line. But Ubisoft can't pull it off. Not just here, either: remember, they were "inches away" from including women in Farcry's MP, as well. I don't know, maybe they ended up in the Friend Zone or something.

Meanwhile, Nintendo's going to have at least two playable characters that are female in Hyrule Warriors (Though I guess that's Omega Force).

Lord_Gremlin said:
Yes. This is the issue: they make a 4 player co-op but they are too lazy to actually offer a selection of characters, male, female or otherwise. They just put 4 clones on screen. This is lazy and cheap.
Don't you just see three generic assassins when you're in co-op?

Either way, I completely agree this is lazy. Especially considering they've already done the MP format before.

I'm not saying they had to include women, but this co-op seems kind of lazy and a weak excuse.
 

Lil_Rimmy

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88chaz88 said:
Witty Name Here said:
Okay now you're just making that B.S. up on the spot.

They don't have a female model that you wouldn't even be playing as anyways and now you're making the claim "THEY DON'T PLAN ON HAVING ANY FEMALE CHARACTERS EVER!"

Provide a source, or you're just outright lying. Just because they don't have any playable female (they don't have anyone BUT the main protagonist as playable anyways) doesn't mean "they don't ever intend to add in strong female NPCs". The french revolution did have females serving alongside men. Of COURSE female NPCs will show up. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if a few Haitians are seen as well. There have been notable female characters in each Assassin's Creed game so far, and you'd have to be acting purposely dense to imagine there wont be now.

But oh! I can play this game too! It seems like so much fun anyways.

As we all know, the game "Bloodborne" is forcing you to play as a stupid disgusting evil white man. After all, the majority of the monsters you kill in the game are white male zombies, and it "conveniently" hid the main character's face. Now, I know that every Dark Souls and Demon's Souls game prior to this one have allowed you to play as virtually any race and gender (even Trans!) that you want... however the developer hasn't outright said that there are any strong female characters planned. Ergo Bloodborne is a filthy piece of trash that must be destroyed to defeat the patriarchy.
All aboard the crazy train, woo woo!

Ubisoft haven't confirmed any strong female NPCs, so why would we assume they have? Your argument was basically "Isn't a strong female NPC enough?" and yet we don't even know that they've even done that yet. You'd have thought that if there were any strong female NPCs in the game Ubisoft would be announcing them considering the backlash they've gotten.

I rarely engage with you Escapist wackos, consider yourself privileged.
Pull the fucking brakes on, what?!

Since when do games announce NPC's in them!? Hell, most of the time the main character only even receives a glance! Why in the living hell would they announce female NPC's, let along NPC's in general?! Really?

Stop acting like everyone else is crazy, especially when the insultee is actually providing a point and the insulter is claming that we should feel privileged for his presence? Bugger off.

OT:

Yeah, there is only one main character, and the mooks are literally just there so you know where your buddy is. Your buddy sees you as a mook as well. So one, if they wanted to have a separate female main character, they would be making an entirely voice acted, animated, modelled etc. etc. character who is thrown into the story purely because "We want a gender swapped main character... for reasons!"

Arno or whatever his name is is not going to solve all sexism in the world is he was a girl. If the game dev actually made a game where you could choose character, and didn't include a female, well that would be a bit odd and a stupid idea, but in a game with 1 protagonist, you need to choose what their gender is, and people really shouldn't care.

This is yet another amazing non-troversy.