Obesity Discrimination

[RafaelNegrus]

So should you be able to call someone who has a family history of heart disease out for bad eating choices? Yes, by all means go ahead. Hopefully that will motivate them to eat better and live a longer, happier life. What's wrong with that?

What's wrong with that is that usually it's not "calling out" but "chewing out" that happens - and believe me, that doesn't do much for the motivation.

Anything can be done badly. Even attitudes of "anyone can do anything that makes them happy and they shouldn't be judged for that" (which so many of these threads become a discussion of). Because that attitude easily can and does become one of not accepting the consequences of one's actions, and neglecting the notion that the things we do says something about the people we are.

Should people be motivated to do things that are good for them? Yes, but that can be done badly, as you said.

 

[Vegosiux]

So should you be able to call someone who has a family history of heart disease out for bad eating choices? Yes, by all means go ahead. Hopefully that will motivate them to eat better and live a longer, happier life. What's wrong with that?

What's wrong with that is that usually it's not "calling out" but "chewing out" that happens - and believe me, that doesn't do much for the motivation.

Anything can be done badly. Even attitudes of "anyone can do anything that makes them happy and they shouldn't be judged for that" (which so many of these threads become a discussion of). Because that attitude easily can and does become one of not accepting the consequences of one's actions, and neglecting the notion that the things we do says something about the people we are.

Should people be motivated to do things that are good for them? Yes, but that can be done badly, as you said.

If you have a serious intentions to help, that's all cool. Because that means you'll actually want to help and be helpful. But most people (loaded expression, I know), helping isn't their motivation. They want to feel better about themselves by being a dick to someone else. It's "Don't you think you should watch your weight and exercise a bit more?" vs. "Fucking fatass, stop eating so much and spending my tax money."

So yeah, it's cool that you stick by your friends and cheer them on as they are on their weight loss quest - that's just fine and dandy in my books. What's not okay in my books is the "It's okay to be a dick to fat people because they're fat" attitude.

 

[ExileNZ]

It's not nice to discriminate against anyone for any reason.

Obesity is just another stupid reason people judge one another. Like people who judge smokers, or christians, or atheists, or immigrants, or women, or gays. This list goes on and on and on.

This.

It doesn't matter what the reason, the more similar people are the harder they'll look for differences to single each other out.

So yes, fat people are discriminated against. But they're not alone in that.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

But you do diet. You see a doctor, do some insane exercising, eat way less and way better food, all of which are things that people of a normal weight would not do. See what I'm getting at?

Yes, if what you're "getting at" is that you're going to continue to operate off of the presumption that there's invariably a behavioral basis to weight.

We tone down the example some, and that makes total sense for the person to do. For me (read: ridiculously skinny but not underweight) doing something even as mild as weight watchers would be stupid, and could probably be described as something akin to body-dimorphism. That doesn't mean it's not an okay thing in some circumstances.

Yes, if there is a behavioral basis.

But if there isn't? Treating weight loss as automatically necessary, much less the automatic solution, is a product of bias.

It doesn't matter what the reason, the more similar people are the harder they'll look for differences to single each other out.

So yes, fat people are discriminated against. But they're not alone in that.

Indeed, although I'd argue that mainstream society finds it more socially acceptable than most other prejudices.

 

[RafaelNegrus]

So should you be able to call someone who has a family history of heart disease out for bad eating choices? Yes, by all means go ahead. Hopefully that will motivate them to eat better and live a longer, happier life. What's wrong with that?

What's wrong with that is that usually it's not "calling out" but "chewing out" that happens - and believe me, that doesn't do much for the motivation.

Anything can be done badly. Even attitudes of "anyone can do anything that makes them happy and they shouldn't be judged for that" (which so many of these threads become a discussion of). Because that attitude easily can and does become one of not accepting the consequences of one's actions, and neglecting the notion that the things we do says something about the people we are.

Should people be motivated to do things that are good for them? Yes, but that can be done badly, as you said.

If you have a serious intentions to help, that's all cool. Because that means you'll actually want to help and be helpful. But most people (loaded expression, I know), helping isn't their motivation. They want to feel better about themselves by being a dick to someone else. It's "Don't you think you should watch your weight and exercise a bit more?" vs. "Fucking fatass, stop eating so much and spending my tax money."

So yeah, it's cool that you stick by your friends and cheer them on as they are on their weight loss quest - that's just fine and dandy in my books. What's not okay in my books is the "It's okay to be a dick to fat people because they're fat" attitude.

Yeah, I get that, but if the issue is that of discrimination that actually involves a very wide number of thoughts and feelings and actions not all of which are bad and not all of which can be controlled. Probably the most significant way I discriminate against obese people is that I do not find obese women to be attractive (straight guy here). There's an acceptable range for me, but there's definitely something beyond that. IS that a bad thing? Eh, I might miss out on some nice girls because of that, but I'm not going to try and date every girl regardless of my personal tastes just in case I might miss out on something unexpected. Still don't have to be mean about it, but it's there.

 

[RafaelNegrus]

But you do diet. You see a doctor, do some insane exercising, eat way less and way better food, all of which are things that people of a normal weight would not do. See what I'm getting at?

Yes, if what you're "getting at" is that you're going to continue to operate off of the presumption that there's invariably a behavioral basis to weight.

We tone down the example some, and that makes total sense for the person to do. For me (read: ridiculously skinny but not underweight) doing something even as mild as weight watchers would be stupid, and could probably be described as something akin to body-dimorphism. That doesn't mean it's not an okay thing in some circumstances.

Yes, if there is a behavioral basis.

But if there isn't? Treating weight loss as automatically necessary, much less the automatic solution, is a product of bias.

It doesn't matter what the reason, the more similar people are the harder they'll look for differences to single each other out.

So yes, fat people are discriminated against. But they're not alone in that.

Indeed, although I'd argue that mainstream society finds it more socially acceptable than most other prejudices.

Why does it have to be a behavioral basis? My original example was me being in water versus me being on land. How is that a behavioral difference? I am well aware that genetics can have an affect on obesity, and that some are more prone to it than others, but if it becomes a problem than a different behavioral response is appropriate that it is for a person i a different situation.

Some people need to work harder to maintain a healthy weight, which isn't fair and kind of sucks but such is life.We all have our own challenges to get through, and our own situations that have different appropriate responses to them.

 

[KafkaOffTheBeach]

Go forth and discriminate against fat people for the good of the land.

America, the UK, Australia, NZ...all spend a massive amount of money on institutionalised discrimination against smokers, why not do it for obese people?
Why not advertise healthy living while enforcing areas where fat people cannot go to eat, like public places?
Why not force fast food restaurants to display stickers showing the negative, long-term side effects of their products in gory detail?
Why not run anti-fatty food advertising campaigns that passive-aggressively condemn fat people for being fat, without actually overtly saying it? Or just flat out say "Your obesity is killing your children", or "Because you are fat, you will not be able to play with your friends."?

I mean, I don't smoke, and I think that smoking is pretty filthy, but at least smokers can put a cigarette out if asked. At least someone who is addicted to cigarettes wont try to justify it to fucking everyone by saying "Yellowed and possibly cancerous IS BEAUTIFUL! HATERS!".

I mean.....clearly both obesity and cigarettes are a problem, but we do need to get some perspective when it comes to fat people and 'obesity discrimination'. You'd think that it'd take more than pointing out the obvious to pierce that many layers....

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Why does it have to be a behavioral basis?

My original example was me being in water versus me being on land. How is that a behavioral difference? I am well aware that genetics can have an affect on obesity, and that some are more prone to it than others, but if it becomes a problem than a different behavioral response is appropriate that it is for a person i a different situation.

Some people need to work harder to maintain a healthy weight, which isn't fair and kind of sucks but such is life.

Here's the trouble: You're presuming on there being a behavioral basis. You're still operating from the presumption that there's a standardized "healthy weight," and that anyone outside of a very narrow range must be "doing it wrong" somehow.

If you eat right, exercise, and are still fat (and yes, it happens more often than you might think, and a hell of a lot more often than the weight-loss industry would like you to think)? Dieting down to some aesthetic standard isn't going to automatically make you healthier. In fact, it can be bad for you.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

Honestly, people should discriminate against fat people. I used to be really fat, and I did something about it,and I should keep going, so I don't die when I'm 40. If there wasn't any stigma, I probably wouldn't have bothered.

I would rather be picked on than dead, or immobile.

See that doesn't really work, I used to frequent my local gym (Exams stopping me right now I'll be back in once they're over) and often I would see large people come in and try to get their act together but they would have to deal with so many snide remarks from meat heads and (for the lack of a better term) Bitches that they end up leaving because the environment was so hostile. Heck I used to think they just left because they gave up putting in the work but I've seen fully grown men in tears because of the shit they have to put up with.

They wouldn't have gone in the first place if people weren't telling them that being overweight was bad. When I tried to get in shape, I had nothing but help, advice and kindness from everyone, even people who used to pick on me for my weight.

 

[RagTagBand]

Hey Fat people are people too, Hell usually they're the equivalent of multiple people squished together into a disgusting sphere of flesh and shit.

I have a serious answer to OP's question but time is only permitting me to make a sarcastic one.

 

[tobi the good boy]

Honestly, people should discriminate against fat people. I used to be really fat, and I did something about it,and I should keep going, so I don't die when I'm 40. If there wasn't any stigma, I probably wouldn't have bothered.

I would rather be picked on than dead, or immobile.

See that doesn't really work, I used to frequent my local gym (Exams stopping me right now I'll be back in once they're over) and often I would see large people come in and try to get their act together but they would have to deal with so many snide remarks from meat heads and (for the lack of a better term) Bitches that they end up leaving because the environment was so hostile. Heck I used to think they just left because they gave up putting in the work but I've seen fully grown men in tears because of the shit they have to put up with.

They wouldn't have gone in the first place if people weren't telling them that being overweight was bad. When I tried to get in shape, I had nothing but help, advice and kindness from everyone, even people who used to pick on me for my weight.

Well that's quite lucky for you to have such a supportive environment but I'm not talking about people simply informing you of being large. I'm talking about flat out verbal assault and If you're implying that something like that is perfectly reasonable there is something very wrong with your concept of the human beings emotional state.

 

[Abedeus]

I treat fat people in the same way I would consider chain smokers. They are a threat for public health, and they can be flat out disgusting, and simple steps can be take to become less fat. (Save the world, become a vegetarian and watch you fat drop down.) And if it becomes a serious problem it's more then okay to discrinate against obese people. Look I get genetics and all, but I won't buy it that you won't lose weight if you just avoid animal fat and all that progressed stuff they dare to call food in America. Same as I get addiction, but I won't buy it that nicotine stickers and perhaps some thearapy won't get you of smoking.
To all that find this offensive. We as the world are going to face food shortage in the next few decades, until genetically enhanched crops finally make their entrance. We simpely wouldn't be able to support fat people's live habbits, nor would it be ethical with a significant proportion of the world starving to dead.

How is someone fat or obese a THREAT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH? Holy fuck I don't get some of you people. You're scared they'll what, collapse the sidewalk? Cause an earthquake? Leak fat and make people around them fat?

"We simply wouldn't be able to support fat people's living habits" boo hoo I guess, as long as they have money for fast foods and garbage to eat, they won't be short of food. Ethical? Welcome to business. You want to convince McDonalds to sell only to poor African children for $0.1 per burger? Go ahead.

I sense that a fat person insulted you or punched you when you were younger. Can't seem to find a reason to hate someone based on their appearance otherwise.

Fat people are part of the public, no? Being fat is a threat for you health, no? Ergo fat people are a thread for public health. If you don't follow this reasoning, for which I wouldn't blame you. Fat people take up hospital beds, we're lacking hospital beds.

And no I've never been hurt by a fat person in my live, and a good friend of mine is nearing obesity.
About 'not being able to support fat people', first off you can't eat money, second off you can't buy what isn't there, third off I have to admit I was referencing from Europe's prespective hear. America with it's enormous abundancy of land and recourses will be able to support their own civiliances. In Europe we would have needed to import food from nations that are lacking it themselves.
Again I treat fat people exactly like I treat chainsmokers. Do I have a problem with chainsmokers? I myself no. But I get discrimation against them, and I won't run to their aid when public opinion is pushing them to change their livestyle.

That's a fallacy. "If A leads to B, then A must be stopped!". Hey, here's an interesting fact - people who are slightly obese live longer than people who are either normal weight, underweight or very obese. Weird, huh.

Being fat doesn't affect anyone else. That's like saying "Giving an organ for donation is a risk to your health, so it affects the public, since you are public!! STOP DONATING ORGANS!". Or the whole gay marriage thing... just as stupid "IT WILL AFFECT THE CHILDREN AND NORMAL MARRIAGES!". You can't poison people with your fat. You can't second hand fatten them. If I eat a donut, my dog won't get fat, my mom won't get fat, you won't get fat. Unless you also eat donut, obviously.

"Drinking water in massive amounts can kill you. Killing you is a threat for your health, no? Ergo water is a threat to public health."

You can't eat money? Sure you can, you can buy shit with it. What isn't there? Last I checked, McDonalds are still open and doing great. Countries that are poor and famished aren't because it's fat people's fault, it's economics and poor conditions for agriculture. Educate yourself. All of your arguments are hypothetical fallacies for the sake of argument.

Just admit that you treat them like trash because you find them icky. That's why most people hate homosexuals, too. Not what their priest/holy book/pastor says, they just find the idea of people being different a scary idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States

Over 35 percent of American adults are obese. Not overweight, they're obese. How is that not a problem? Make all the rhetorical circles that you want, but according to the CDC, the obesity rate caused an increase in medical spending by 75 billion dollars in 2003 alone.

And I care about America very, very deeply. Oh, wait, no, 3/4 of you also think evolution isn't real. That's a bigger problem in my eyes.

Also, obesity isn't caused by people. It's caused by obese people themselves. Stop treating it like an epidemic just because media does. It's a rising problem, but it doesn't validate discriminating people, and this is what the topic is about.

I treat fat people in the same way I would consider chain smokers. They are a threat for public health, and they can be flat out disgusting, and simple steps can be take to become less fat. (Save the world, become a vegetarian and watch you fat drop down.) And if it becomes a serious problem it's more then okay to discrinate against obese people. Look I get genetics and all, but I won't buy it that you won't lose weight if you just avoid animal fat and all that progressed stuff they dare to call food in America. Same as I get addiction, but I won't buy it that nicotine stickers and perhaps some thearapy won't get you of smoking.
To all that find this offensive. We as the world are going to face food shortage in the next few decades, until genetically enhanched crops finally make their entrance. We simpely wouldn't be able to support fat people's live habbits, nor would it be ethical with a significant proportion of the world starving to dead.

How is someone fat or obese a THREAT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH? Holy fuck I don't get some of you people. You're scared they'll what, collapse the sidewalk? Cause an earthquake? Leak fat and make people around them fat?

"We simply wouldn't be able to support fat people's living habits" boo hoo I guess, as long as they have money for fast foods and garbage to eat, they won't be short of food. Ethical? Welcome to business. You want to convince McDonalds to sell only to poor African children for $0.1 per burger? Go ahead.

I sense that a fat person insulted you or punched you when you were younger. Can't seem to find a reason to hate someone based on their appearance otherwise.

Fat people are part of the public, no? Being fat is a threat for you health, no? Ergo fat people are a thread for public health. If you don't follow this reasoning, for which I wouldn't blame you. Fat people take up hospital beds, we're lacking hospital beds.

And no I've never been hurt by a fat person in my live, and a good friend of mine is nearing obesity.
About 'not being able to support fat people', first off you can't eat money, second off you can't buy what isn't there, third off I have to admit I was referencing from Europe's prespective hear. America with it's enormous abundancy of land and recourses will be able to support their own civiliances. In Europe we would have needed to import food from nations that are lacking it themselves.
Again I treat fat people exactly like I treat chainsmokers. Do I have a problem with chainsmokers? I myself no. But I get discrimation against them, and I won't run to their aid when public opinion is pushing them to change their livestyle.

That's a fallacy. "If A leads to B, then A must be stopped!". Hey, here's an interesting fact - people who are slightly obese live longer than people who are either normal weight, underweight or very obese. Weird, huh.

Being fat doesn't affect anyone else. That's like saying "Giving an organ for donation is a risk to your health, so it affects the public, since you are public!! STOP DONATING ORGANS!". Or the whole gay marriage thing... just as stupid "IT WILL AFFECT THE CHILDREN AND NORMAL MARRIAGES!". You can't poison people with your fat. You can't second hand fatten them. If I eat a donut, my dog won't get fat, my mom won't get fat, you won't get fat. Unless you also eat donut, obviously.

"Drinking water in massive amounts can kill you. Killing you is a threat for your health, no? Ergo water is a threat to public health."

You can't eat money? Sure you can, you can buy shit with it. What isn't there? Last I checked, McDonalds are still open and doing great. Countries that are poor and famished aren't because it's fat people's fault, it's economics and poor conditions for agriculture. Educate yourself. All of your arguments are hypothetical fallacies for the sake of argument.

Just admit that you treat them like trash because you find them icky. That's why most people hate homosexuals, too. Not what their priest/holy book/pastor says, they just find the idea of people being different a scary idea.

Come on we're not talking about slightly obesse people here. I find nothimg more painfull to watch then a girl suffering from anorexia, it's infinetly better to be slightly overweight then seriously underweight. But we're not talking about slightly obessed people, we're talking about moriable obese people. The right woman in the video wasn't moriable obese, but the left one seemed to be aproaching it.
I myself don't really fear second hand smoking. I realize it poses a health risk, but then you probably need to spend an hour a day in a small room with a chainsmoker. Not a likely senario.
I admit that I'm a bit creeped out if a see an moriable obese person in bathing clothes at the beach. That's how far my problem with fat people specifically go. I do however believe that it's ones responsiblilty to put a serious effort to stay heatlhy.
Maybe our definition of discrimation is different. I don't mean it's okay to bash them, I do think it's okay to discus things like fat-tax or things like that.

Fat tax? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Let's make a gay-tax, since gay people don't have children! Let's make a bald-tax, because bald people don't get haircuts and halt the hairdressing industry!

Morbidly... not moriable...

And I found out your issue with fat people - not because unhealthy, not because bad. Because you don't like them. And that's fine. Just don't fucking dare thinking about laws to make people you dislike get worse treatment.

You don't fear second hand smoking? You do realize that smoke from cigarettes has 10 times more carcinogens than the one people smoke normally?

 

[Abedeus]

While you cant ever make the hateful stop there are a few simple ways to if not avoid fat hate then at least do less to "deserve it"

The first and most simple: Admit it- you're fat. I am fat, mayhaps even obese myself
Secondly: Don't make excuses- excuses make you seem weak. Again personally I'm fat because I overeat and don;t exercise. Know your faults
Finally: Pity is for the deserving, we fat fucks don't. Now if your bemonaning your weight then perhaps you need to man up but the thing is to not try and pull others down for sympathy or special treatment

Hey it's nice to know your life was easy and you only overate yourself. It's not like people have random (though very common for some people) episodes in life or other illnesses that are a factor in the whole thing.

 

[Tanis]

If you fill two seats, you should PAY for two seats.

Not my fault you can't put down the 10 Big Macs.

Hell, I'm FAT, but at least I know it and don't try and hide behind some fake BS 'I'm big boned' crap.

 

[Bruenin]

SNIP

Yeah I once saw a show where they got a bunch of skinny people, made them eat a LOT of food. Only about 3 of the 10 people gained weight, and even then not much. Same goes for some fat people, but the difference is that from my knowledge there can't really be anything that can stop fat being burnt away by exercise, or less fat coming in. You may have to do a bit more exercise if you have a bad metabolism. But if you complain about being discriminated against when you aren't doing the right amount of exercise for your metabolism then you're just a massive twat.

diet affects weight more than exercise, it takes hours of exercise to burn off enough for calorie deficient, especially with an unhealthy diet, and it takes forever to burn off fat... fat people seem to be made fun of the MOST when they are exercising, HAHA look at the fat guy run, he's jiggling... that's not very good when someone is trying to lose weight.

seriously an hour of high level exercise could burn... 500 calories? 3000 is a pound :/ one meal from a fast food restaurant raises you around 1000 if it's a place like McDonald's if they can't afford to start eating healthier than losing weight is going to be extremely more difficult and time consuming... not everyone has hours to spend on exercising.

an hour long run burns 300 last time I checked, a french fry from mcdonalds is around 500
either they practically have to starve themselves and go through pain or spend a LOT of time exercising

 

[Korolev]

Obesity is a problem, but if you want to help them, being nasty is not the right way to go about doing it. No one is perfectly healthy - not even doctors and certainly not medical students, going by what I've seen. Everyone makes poor eating habits or makes some choice that is less than perfect.

I have had many lectures on the consequences of obesity, the mechanisms of obesity and the current treatments that are available. Losing weight, once you are obese, is EXTREMELY difficult. Your brain literally fights against you - Neuropeptide Y, Leptin, Ghrelin, all of these molecules will fight against any attempt to lose a lot of weight. It's not easy, and takes an extraordinary amount of willpower to lose weight through dietary changes alone (which is why most fail). I don't judge anyone by their personal struggles with their body images - leave that to themselves. Yes, obesity does put costs on the Health Care System - so does Alcohol use and abuse. Given that I am a (non-religious) teetotaler, does that give me the right to judge and hurl abuse at those who do drink, or perhaps abuse alcohol? No.

No one is perfect. I will remind patients of the scientific fact that Obesity is bad for you (and I am a medical student and I was/am a scientist - I know my science and I've read my papers. Sorry Fat Acceptance movement, Obesity IS bad for your health. Very bad. Some of those fat-acceptance folks are approaching "my smoking is perfectly healthy!" levels of delusion when it comes to the health problems associated with obesity - by claiming that obesity causes no problems whatsoever. Which is wrong on so many levels), but I'm not going to scream abuse at them since they are still human beings who deserve respect, fairness, and should not be solely judged by their weight. There's more to a human being than how much they weigh, and its tragic that so many people fail to understand that.

 

[Lethos]

Chris Rock knows how it is:

Eat healthy and do a bit of exercise. I really don't see how it's hard to stay in shape.

 

[Timberwolf0924]

I hate it when you go to a club, or the park and there's always the fat person in really tight clothes. The ladies do it cause its 'sexy' (not it's not) and the guys do it to be funny (they're secretly dying on the inside)

Captica
Find the menu you're craving

Spoiler: Proof

 

[Thyunda]

I...don't see why it's such a bad thing to encourage people not to be obese.

 

[The Funslinger]

It goes both ways, my mum is fat and when she slanders skinny people (probably because of her insecurity of her own weight) I get mad, I don't do anything but it upsets me.

To be fair, obesity is a problem, it's not something to be proud of, not as long as there are starving people in the world anyway. With that said discrimination is always bad, but criticizing is not discrimination.

She rips on skinny people? Do you mean the underweight, or people who just aren't fat?