Obesity Discrimination

[RafaelNegrus]

Snip

Look at the stuff by Tom Naughton to see why taxing food is seven different shades of stupid (to whit: fast food doesn't cause obesity (!!!!!) and middle class, higher-income families eat more fast food than the poor, so you wouldn't be discouraging much either way)

If you use wikipedia and claim it to be a reliable source you will get slapped out of college faster than you could imagine. I'd argue that stigma has gotten a LOT worse since the 60's. Just look what's on TV and in magazines, and note that eating disorders in children under 12 have increased by 112% in the last 10 years.

Linda Bacon has consistently argued against focusing on weight and weight-loss, so it's a shame to see you've decided to go against her conclusions.

This isn't college, and wikipedia is great as a starting source to get a handle on the material (currently working on an international relations masters degree, and you'll notice I only really used wikipedia for a couple of numbers, which I very much trust it with.)

And to quote from the article I linked "While many short-term weight loss intervention studies do indicate improvements in health measures, because the weight loss is always accompanied by a change in behavior, it is not known whether or to what extent the improvements can be attributed to the weight loss itself." "In most studies on type 2 diabetes, the improvement in glycemic control is seen within days, before significant weight or fat is lost." "These data suggest that the behavior change as opposed to the weight loss itself may play a greater role in health improvement."

Her position is not one that weight loss is a bad thing, but that healthy behaviors which may very well result in weight loss are good even when not necessarily accompanied by weight loss. At least that's how I read it.

EDIT: And a tax on unhealthy food would be good even if it doesn't reduce obesity, as it just inclines more people to make smart decisions. And yes, I think it would affect the decisions of people in the middle class too. No one likes paying extra money (look at Mitt Romney, he doesn't need more money and he doesn't like taxes, but that is a VERY different issue I don't want to get into).

 

[Amarok]

Snip

Well I've been saying from the start that healthy behaviours - again, eating well, 30 minutes of moderate movement 5 days a week - are all that's needed to mitigate all risk of diseases associated with bad diet and poor exercise.

What I've been saying is that the same healthy options should be laid bare for everyone. That the obese should not be told by doctors/friends/family/people on the street to lose weight because it has a 95% failure rate and is shown to have adverse affects on health, and because stigma and shame have negative affects on mental health which manifest themselves physically.
And if you don't think the obese are stigmatised or shamed, I invite you to sit through a single ad break. Particularly during summer, winter, or new years'.

Obese people, like ideal weight people, should all be encouraged towards healthy living. No muss, no fuss. If they lose weight, whatever. If they don't, whatever.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Discrimination can be based on any possible difference between people. It is a waste of time focusing on just one issue when the whole should be taken into focus. I greatly fear people who only promote tolerance on what gets them personally discriminated against. Because these are the type of people who generally will open up to their own hate afterwards and attack other groups. While I do not know these two women personally or have delved too much into their other views, I would hope that they would target all discrimination the same but they are certainly going about it the wrong if they are only willing to discuss those that happen to fit them.

Why would you automatically jump to that conclusion? Sure, they kind of mumbled, but I didn't hear anything to indicate that they didn't care about any other biases.

 

[mrhappy1489]

I honestly do not care what anyone says, fat people while causing multiple problems for our society (especially Australia and the US), they shouldn't be discriminated against. As much as I hate the amount of money spent upgrading facilities to accommodate fat people, I think discrimination is a step backwards in terms of where the world is going. While this is a self imposed problem and I do not feel sympathy for these people, I don't think going out and abusing them is really the right idea. OT, I do think that a large percentage of people are discriminant against fatty's, but in saying that I can understand where they come from, but would rather they didn't.

So you agree that you can still discriminate against something that isn't absolutely innate or concrete about you (which I agree with by the way)? I totally understand where you're coming from and I don't understand how people simply say that the problem being self inflicted makes it okay to abuse people. It's like saying that I accidentally cut my hand off because I got distracted and it's okay to mock and verbally harass me for it because I wasn't paying attention. Or like how people say it isn't discrimination regarding religion because you can pick it. Yeah it isn't like it's a heavily culture based belief system that influences many aspects of your life, if people hassle you for it just change it! I know I'm kind of stretching and obesity can be countered with simple willpower and education but many people simply don't have that. This is met with "you're not motivated, that's your problem get motivated" but it isn't like you can just get willpower or motivation out of thin air, that's a whole new problem all together. For many people "excuses" is actually is actually a vicious cycle that they need support, not stigma to break.

Whatever I'm rambling.

I am glad that I'm not the only person open enough to say this. It does seem strange in my opinion that people seem to be willing to jump so easily to another boat of abuse and hatred, while justifying it with really flimsy arguments. Like you said, it might be self inflicted, but it isn't a justification to go out accusing them of being Mrs. Hitler. Though as an amendment to my previous comment, I find it trying not abusing the idiots that go around sulking about being fat and how they hate it. Whether you lack the willpower or not doesn't mean you can ***** about your problems as if they weren't self inflicted.

But now I too, am rambling.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

[snip]

Try to dodge around it all you like, but you criticized them (to put it politely) for making a video on a specific topic, and for remaining on that topic. You then made groundless implications about their motives.

And...guess what? Immediately resorting to personal attacks doesn't change what you did. Neither does backpedaling. If anything, they suggest that you know full well that you're in an indefensible position.

 

[RafaelNegrus]

Snip

Well I've been saying from the start that healthy behaviours - again, eating well, 30 minutes of moderate movement 5 days a week - are all that's needed to mitigate all risk of diseases associated with bad diet and poor exercise.

What I've been saying is that the same healthy options should be laid bare for everyone. That the obese should not be told by doctors/friends/family/people on the street to lose weight because it has a 95% failure rate and is shown to have adverse affects on health, and because stigma and shame have negative affects on mental health which manifest themselves physically.
And if you don't think the obese are stigmatised or shamed, I invite you to sit through a single ad break. Particularly during summer, winter, or new years'.

Obese people, like ideal weight people, should all be encouraged towards healthy living. No muss, no fuss. If they lose weight, whatever. If they don't, whatever.

And I've never been to a doctor's appointment of any kind and not been encouraged to be more healthy (except maybe the eye doctor).

 

[RafaelNegrus]

[snip]

Try to dodge around it all you like, but you criticized them (to put it politely) for making a video on a specific topic, and for remaining on that topic. You then made groundless implications about their motives.

And...guess what? Immediately resorting to personal attacks doesn't change what you did. Neither does backpedaling. If anything, they suggest that you know full well that you're in an indefensible position.

No, he did say that he didn't know their motives, but in general he's leery of people like that because they typically only care about notions of equality that would help them.

While I do not know these two women personally or have delved too much into their other views, I would hope that they would target all discrimination the same but they are certainly going about it the wrong if they are only willing to discuss those that happen to fit them.

Yes, it's a video on one topic, and for all I know they may have other videos that are angrily against the stigma of being homosexual or that sort of thing. I do think historically we can look and see that typically the most ardent attackers of discrimination are those that are in the group being discriminated against. Most famous feminists are women, most black rights leaders are black, etc.

 

[suitepee7]

And don't say it costs society money - most of us are at work posting here, if not we're at school or could be volunteering or something, so we're all being jackasses and being a general waste as we are now. Wasting company money, education money, free time on ourselves... until you're a model citizen, shut up.

i'm at home, my work has nothing to do with computers anyway, and i pay taxes. it IS costing my government a lot of money due to the nature of the NHS, and i, along with many other British taxpayers, are paying for the majority of their healthcare. And the volunteering aspect has little to do with this issue really, we are entitled to spend our free time as we wish.

OT: i don't really care about fat people, unless they cost me money. personally i think if a medical condition is brought on by your lifestyle, you should have to pay for it (smokers, alcoholics etc). otherwise, i just don't care. people can live their lives however they damn well like.

 

[Amarok]

And I've never been to a doctor's appointment of any kind and not been encouraged to be more healthy (except maybe the eye doctor).

Well lucky you, but studies show that doctors tend to prescribe weightloss in obese patients for anything from high blood pressure to strep throat. They will more often than not make no attempt whatsoever to find a cause for any illness an obese person may have, immediately chalking it up to their obesity. Which is also where the inflated obesity morality rates come from. You get hit by a truck in America as a fat person and your resulting death is blamed on obesity. +50% of doctors find obese patients to be "awkward, unattractive, unpleasant to be around" and 17% are "repulsed" by them.

In addition to it being difficult for obese patients to receive sound medical advice from a biased doctor (who thankfully don't account for every doctor, but from a disturbing amount nonetheless), there are also laws rushing through Britain and America all the time which deny proper healthcare to the overweight.

If you think weight bias among the medical profession doesn't exist because you haven't personally experienced it, then whatever.

Bibliography:
http://www.tampabay.com/features/fitness/doctors-weight-bias-causes-some-people-to-avoid-medical-care/1180510
http://www.more.com/weight-loss-diet-myth
http://www.shakesville.com/2008/03/reality-check-why-dont-fat-women-get.html

 

[RafaelNegrus]

And I've never been to a doctor's appointment of any kind and not been encouraged to be more healthy (except maybe the eye doctor).

Well lucky you, but studies show that doctors tend to prescribe weightloss in obese patients for anything from high blood pressure to strep throat. They will more often than not make no attempt whatsoever to find a cause for any illness an obese person may have, immediately chalking it up to their obesity. Which is also where the inflated obesity morality rates come from. You get hit by a truck in America as a fat person and your resulting death is blamed on obesity. +50% of doctors find obese patients to be "awkward, unattractive, unpleasant to be around" and 17% are "repulsed" by them.

In addition to it being difficult for obese patients to receive sound medical advice from a biased doctor (who thankfully don't account for every doctor, but from a disturbing amount nonetheless), there are also laws rushing through Britain and America all the time which deny proper healthcare to the overweight.

If you think weight bias among the medical profession doesn't exist because you haven't personally experienced it, then whatever.

Bibliography:
http://www.tampabay.com/features/fitness/doctors-weight-bias-causes-some-people-to-avoid-medical-care/1180510
http://www.more.com/weight-loss-diet-myth
http://www.shakesville.com/2008/03/reality-check-why-dont-fat-women-get.html

I'm just saying that doctors always tell you to improve your diet and exercise more (well, exercise wasn't an issue during my cross country days, but besides then). I didn't see in those articles the 50% bit, I saw 24%, and that was nurses.

But quite simply, doctors are people too. They have their own failings and the nature of the profession is to try and point them out, but it also creates a culture of knowing what is best for a patient and not one of listening. As a patient what a person can do is switch doctors to one that does listen more.

And your second article that you linked there is just completely based on the other one I linked earlier, try and diversify your sources as it weakens your argument. One doctor does not make scientific fact.

 

[Vegosiux]

personally i think if a medical condition is brought on by your lifestyle, you should have to pay for it (smokers, alcoholics etc).

"Should"? Sales taxes on tobacco and alcohol would like to say hello. Non-smokers and non-drinkers don't pay those. Smokers and drinkers do. So why are you saying they "should" do something they already are doing?

 

[thiosk]

Being fat is a temporary problem.

This problem will largely go away when food inflation really goes out of control, because of the long standing world wide resistance to genetically modified crops and factory raised meat, and the unrelenting increase in populations-- especially in locations that cannot produce enough food to feed them.

It will just take one good climate thump-- a big volcano, for example, that whacks America's food production for two years to drive a substantial portion of the world population into starvation and food prices through the roof. People will simply be incapable of consuming the 5000-30,000 calories per day that keep them obese.

 

[suitepee7]

personally i think if a medical condition is brought on by your lifestyle, you should have to pay for it (smokers, alcoholics etc).

"Should"? Sales taxes on tobacco and alcohol would like to say hello. Non-smokers and non-drinkers don't pay those. Smokers and drinkers do. So why are you saying they "should" do something they already are doing?

that is buying the product, needing a liver transplant because its fucked from alcoholism is what is paid for on the NHS, and is what is taken out of taxpayer money. they choose to drink it, they should pay for the treatment because they caused it. nobody forced them into it

 

[Vegosiux]

that is buying the product, needing a liver transplant because its fucked from alcoholism is what is paid for on the NHS, and is what is taken out of taxpayer money. they choose to drink it, they should pay for the treatment because they caused it. nobody forced them into it

There's a reason the thing is called a "sales tax". As in the money the government takes. Other things being equal, a smoker already pays more in taxes than a non-smoker.

 

[rutger5000]

I treat fat people in the same way I would consider chain smokers. They are a threat for public health, and they can be flat out disgusting, and simple steps can be take to become less fat. (Save the world, become a vegetarian and watch you fat drop down.) And if it becomes a serious problem it's more then okay to discrinate against obese people. Look I get genetics and all, but I won't buy it that you won't lose weight if you just avoid animal fat and all that progressed stuff they dare to call food in America. Same as I get addiction, but I won't buy it that nicotine stickers and perhaps some thearapy won't get you of smoking.
To all that find this offensive. We as the world are going to face food shortage in the next few decades, until genetically enhanched crops finally make their entrance. We simpely wouldn't be able to support fat people's live habbits, nor would it be ethical with a significant proportion of the world starving to dead.

How is someone fat or obese a THREAT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH? Holy fuck I don't get some of you people. You're scared they'll what, collapse the sidewalk? Cause an earthquake? Leak fat and make people around them fat?

"We simply wouldn't be able to support fat people's living habits" boo hoo I guess, as long as they have money for fast foods and garbage to eat, they won't be short of food. Ethical? Welcome to business. You want to convince McDonalds to sell only to poor African children for $0.1 per burger? Go ahead.

I sense that a fat person insulted you or punched you when you were younger. Can't seem to find a reason to hate someone based on their appearance otherwise.

Fat people are part of the public, no? Being fat is a threat for you health, no? Ergo fat people are a thread for public health. If you don't follow this reasoning, for which I wouldn't blame you. Fat people take up hospital beds, we're lacking hospital beds.

And no I've never been hurt by a fat person in my live, and a good friend of mine is nearing obesity.
About 'not being able to support fat people', first off you can't eat money, second off you can't buy what isn't there, third off I have to admit I was referencing from Europe's prespective hear. America with it's enormous abundancy of land and recourses will be able to support their own civiliances. In Europe we would have needed to import food from nations that are lacking it themselves.
Again I treat fat people exactly like I treat chainsmokers. Do I have a problem with chainsmokers? I myself no. But I get discrimation against them, and I won't run to their aid when public opinion is pushing them to change their livestyle.

That's a fallacy. "If A leads to B, then A must be stopped!". Hey, here's an interesting fact - people who are slightly obese live longer than people who are either normal weight, underweight or very obese. Weird, huh.

Being fat doesn't affect anyone else. That's like saying "Giving an organ for donation is a risk to your health, so it affects the public, since you are public!! STOP DONATING ORGANS!". Or the whole gay marriage thing... just as stupid "IT WILL AFFECT THE CHILDREN AND NORMAL MARRIAGES!". You can't poison people with your fat. You can't second hand fatten them. If I eat a donut, my dog won't get fat, my mom won't get fat, you won't get fat. Unless you also eat donut, obviously.

"Drinking water in massive amounts can kill you. Killing you is a threat for your health, no? Ergo water is a threat to public health."

You can't eat money? Sure you can, you can buy shit with it. What isn't there? Last I checked, McDonalds are still open and doing great. Countries that are poor and famished aren't because it's fat people's fault, it's economics and poor conditions for agriculture. Educate yourself. All of your arguments are hypothetical fallacies for the sake of argument.

Just admit that you treat them like trash because you find them icky. That's why most people hate homosexuals, too. Not what their priest/holy book/pastor says, they just find the idea of people being different a scary idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States

Over 35 percent of American adults are obese. Not overweight, they're obese. How is that not a problem? Make all the rhetorical circles that you want, but according to the CDC, the obesity rate caused an increase in medical spending by 75 billion dollars in 2003 alone.

And I care about America very, very deeply. Oh, wait, no, 3/4 of you also think evolution isn't real. That's a bigger problem in my eyes.

Also, obesity isn't caused by people. It's caused by obese people themselves. Stop treating it like an epidemic just because media does. It's a rising problem, but it doesn't validate discriminating people, and this is what the topic is about.

I treat fat people in the same way I would consider chain smokers. They are a threat for public health, and they can be flat out disgusting, and simple steps can be take to become less fat. (Save the world, become a vegetarian and watch you fat drop down.) And if it becomes a serious problem it's more then okay to discrinate against obese people. Look I get genetics and all, but I won't buy it that you won't lose weight if you just avoid animal fat and all that progressed stuff they dare to call food in America. Same as I get addiction, but I won't buy it that nicotine stickers and perhaps some thearapy won't get you of smoking.
To all that find this offensive. We as the world are going to face food shortage in the next few decades, until genetically enhanched crops finally make their entrance. We simpely wouldn't be able to support fat people's live habbits, nor would it be ethical with a significant proportion of the world starving to dead.

How is someone fat or obese a THREAT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH? Holy fuck I don't get some of you people. You're scared they'll what, collapse the sidewalk? Cause an earthquake? Leak fat and make people around them fat?

"We simply wouldn't be able to support fat people's living habits" boo hoo I guess, as long as they have money for fast foods and garbage to eat, they won't be short of food. Ethical? Welcome to business. You want to convince McDonalds to sell only to poor African children for $0.1 per burger? Go ahead.

I sense that a fat person insulted you or punched you when you were younger. Can't seem to find a reason to hate someone based on their appearance otherwise.

Fat people are part of the public, no? Being fat is a threat for you health, no? Ergo fat people are a thread for public health. If you don't follow this reasoning, for which I wouldn't blame you. Fat people take up hospital beds, we're lacking hospital beds.

And no I've never been hurt by a fat person in my live, and a good friend of mine is nearing obesity.
About 'not being able to support fat people', first off you can't eat money, second off you can't buy what isn't there, third off I have to admit I was referencing from Europe's prespective hear. America with it's enormous abundancy of land and recourses will be able to support their own civiliances. In Europe we would have needed to import food from nations that are lacking it themselves.
Again I treat fat people exactly like I treat chainsmokers. Do I have a problem with chainsmokers? I myself no. But I get discrimation against them, and I won't run to their aid when public opinion is pushing them to change their livestyle.

That's a fallacy. "If A leads to B, then A must be stopped!". Hey, here's an interesting fact - people who are slightly obese live longer than people who are either normal weight, underweight or very obese. Weird, huh.

Being fat doesn't affect anyone else. That's like saying "Giving an organ for donation is a risk to your health, so it affects the public, since you are public!! STOP DONATING ORGANS!". Or the whole gay marriage thing... just as stupid "IT WILL AFFECT THE CHILDREN AND NORMAL MARRIAGES!". You can't poison people with your fat. You can't second hand fatten them. If I eat a donut, my dog won't get fat, my mom won't get fat, you won't get fat. Unless you also eat donut, obviously.

"Drinking water in massive amounts can kill you. Killing you is a threat for your health, no? Ergo water is a threat to public health."

You can't eat money? Sure you can, you can buy shit with it. What isn't there? Last I checked, McDonalds are still open and doing great. Countries that are poor and famished aren't because it's fat people's fault, it's economics and poor conditions for agriculture. Educate yourself. All of your arguments are hypothetical fallacies for the sake of argument.

Just admit that you treat them like trash because you find them icky. That's why most people hate homosexuals, too. Not what their priest/holy book/pastor says, they just find the idea of people being different a scary idea.

Come on we're not talking about slightly obesse people here. I find nothimg more painfull to watch then a girl suffering from anorexia, it's infinetly better to be slightly overweight then seriously underweight. But we're not talking about slightly obessed people, we're talking about moriable obese people. The right woman in the video wasn't moriable obese, but the left one seemed to be aproaching it.
I myself don't really fear second hand smoking. I realize it poses a health risk, but then you probably need to spend an hour a day in a small room with a chainsmoker. Not a likely senario.
I admit that I'm a bit creeped out if a see an moriable obese person in bathing clothes at the beach. That's how far my problem with fat people specifically go. I do however believe that it's ones responsiblilty to put a serious effort to stay heatlhy.
Maybe our definition of discrimation is different. I don't mean it's okay to bash them, I do think it's okay to discus things like fat-tax or things like that.

Fat tax? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Let's make a gay-tax, since gay people don't have children! Let's make a bald-tax, because bald people don't get haircuts and halt the hairdressing industry!

Morbidly... not moriable...

And I found out your issue with fat people - not because unhealthy, not because bad. Because you don't like them. And that's fine. Just don't fucking dare thinking about laws to make people you dislike get worse treatment.

You don't fear second hand smoking? You do realize that smoke from cigarettes has 10 times more carcinogens than the one people smoke normally?

Okay I've about had it with being accused of hating. You want to believe I'm a homophobe? I'm actually bisexual, but go ahead. You want to believe I'm a racist? My Idol and one of my few hopes for humanity was Ghandi, and the most inspiring person I've ever personally met was an African man, but go ahead. You want to believe I hate fat people? My ex and first girlfriend I'm still pretty crazy about is plump, and one of my best friend is fat, but go ahead.
Do you even realize that we in fact do have taxes for other dangerous livestyles? acoholisme is discouraged by having high taxes on acohol, smoking is discouraged by having high taxes on tabaco, etc etc, but of course it's a big no no to raise taxes on junkfood to discourage obesity.
Also about the 10 times more carconogens from second hand-smoking, just the most basic understanding of physics will tell you that is bullcrap. Unless you're in a small poorly ventilated room, second hand smoking won't do you much harm. Second hand smoking was an issue for office workers and the like, but the new laws have fixed it.
And about my spelling: F*ck you, English isn't my native language, I thaught myself, and I'm dyslectic.

 

[Abedeus]

I treat fat people in the same way I would consider chain smokers. They are a threat for public health, and they can be flat out disgusting, and simple steps can be take to become less fat. (Save the world, become a vegetarian and watch you fat drop down.) And if it becomes a serious problem it's more then okay to discrinate against obese people. Look I get genetics and all, but I won't buy it that you won't lose weight if you just avoid animal fat and all that progressed stuff they dare to call food in America. Same as I get addiction, but I won't buy it that nicotine stickers and perhaps some thearapy won't get you of smoking.
To all that find this offensive. We as the world are going to face food shortage in the next few decades, until genetically enhanched crops finally make their entrance. We simpely wouldn't be able to support fat people's live habbits, nor would it be ethical with a significant proportion of the world starving to dead.

How is someone fat or obese a THREAT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH? Holy fuck I don't get some of you people. You're scared they'll what, collapse the sidewalk? Cause an earthquake? Leak fat and make people around them fat?

"We simply wouldn't be able to support fat people's living habits" boo hoo I guess, as long as they have money for fast foods and garbage to eat, they won't be short of food. Ethical? Welcome to business. You want to convince McDonalds to sell only to poor African children for $0.1 per burger? Go ahead.

I sense that a fat person insulted you or punched you when you were younger. Can't seem to find a reason to hate someone based on their appearance otherwise.

Fat people are part of the public, no? Being fat is a threat for you health, no? Ergo fat people are a thread for public health. If you don't follow this reasoning, for which I wouldn't blame you. Fat people take up hospital beds, we're lacking hospital beds.

And no I've never been hurt by a fat person in my live, and a good friend of mine is nearing obesity.
About 'not being able to support fat people', first off you can't eat money, second off you can't buy what isn't there, third off I have to admit I was referencing from Europe's prespective hear. America with it's enormous abundancy of land and recourses will be able to support their own civiliances. In Europe we would have needed to import food from nations that are lacking it themselves.
Again I treat fat people exactly like I treat chainsmokers. Do I have a problem with chainsmokers? I myself no. But I get discrimation against them, and I won't run to their aid when public opinion is pushing them to change their livestyle.

That's a fallacy. "If A leads to B, then A must be stopped!". Hey, here's an interesting fact - people who are slightly obese live longer than people who are either normal weight, underweight or very obese. Weird, huh.

Being fat doesn't affect anyone else. That's like saying "Giving an organ for donation is a risk to your health, so it affects the public, since you are public!! STOP DONATING ORGANS!". Or the whole gay marriage thing... just as stupid "IT WILL AFFECT THE CHILDREN AND NORMAL MARRIAGES!". You can't poison people with your fat. You can't second hand fatten them. If I eat a donut, my dog won't get fat, my mom won't get fat, you won't get fat. Unless you also eat donut, obviously.

"Drinking water in massive amounts can kill you. Killing you is a threat for your health, no? Ergo water is a threat to public health."

You can't eat money? Sure you can, you can buy shit with it. What isn't there? Last I checked, McDonalds are still open and doing great. Countries that are poor and famished aren't because it's fat people's fault, it's economics and poor conditions for agriculture. Educate yourself. All of your arguments are hypothetical fallacies for the sake of argument.

Just admit that you treat them like trash because you find them icky. That's why most people hate homosexuals, too. Not what their priest/holy book/pastor says, they just find the idea of people being different a scary idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States

Over 35 percent of American adults are obese. Not overweight, they're obese. How is that not a problem? Make all the rhetorical circles that you want, but according to the CDC, the obesity rate caused an increase in medical spending by 75 billion dollars in 2003 alone.

And I care about America very, very deeply. Oh, wait, no, 3/4 of you also think evolution isn't real. That's a bigger problem in my eyes.

Also, obesity isn't caused by people. It's caused by obese people themselves. Stop treating it like an epidemic just because media does. It's a rising problem, but it doesn't validate discriminating people, and this is what the topic is about.

I treat fat people in the same way I would consider chain smokers. They are a threat for public health, and they can be flat out disgusting, and simple steps can be take to become less fat. (Save the world, become a vegetarian and watch you fat drop down.) And if it becomes a serious problem it's more then okay to discrinate against obese people. Look I get genetics and all, but I won't buy it that you won't lose weight if you just avoid animal fat and all that progressed stuff they dare to call food in America. Same as I get addiction, but I won't buy it that nicotine stickers and perhaps some thearapy won't get you of smoking.
To all that find this offensive. We as the world are going to face food shortage in the next few decades, until genetically enhanched crops finally make their entrance. We simpely wouldn't be able to support fat people's live habbits, nor would it be ethical with a significant proportion of the world starving to dead.

How is someone fat or obese a THREAT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH? Holy fuck I don't get some of you people. You're scared they'll what, collapse the sidewalk? Cause an earthquake? Leak fat and make people around them fat?

"We simply wouldn't be able to support fat people's living habits" boo hoo I guess, as long as they have money for fast foods and garbage to eat, they won't be short of food. Ethical? Welcome to business. You want to convince McDonalds to sell only to poor African children for $0.1 per burger? Go ahead.

I sense that a fat person insulted you or punched you when you were younger. Can't seem to find a reason to hate someone based on their appearance otherwise.

Fat people are part of the public, no? Being fat is a threat for you health, no? Ergo fat people are a thread for public health. If you don't follow this reasoning, for which I wouldn't blame you. Fat people take up hospital beds, we're lacking hospital beds.

And no I've never been hurt by a fat person in my live, and a good friend of mine is nearing obesity.
About 'not being able to support fat people', first off you can't eat money, second off you can't buy what isn't there, third off I have to admit I was referencing from Europe's prespective hear. America with it's enormous abundancy of land and recourses will be able to support their own civiliances. In Europe we would have needed to import food from nations that are lacking it themselves.
Again I treat fat people exactly like I treat chainsmokers. Do I have a problem with chainsmokers? I myself no. But I get discrimation against them, and I won't run to their aid when public opinion is pushing them to change their livestyle.

That's a fallacy. "If A leads to B, then A must be stopped!". Hey, here's an interesting fact - people who are slightly obese live longer than people who are either normal weight, underweight or very obese. Weird, huh.

Being fat doesn't affect anyone else. That's like saying "Giving an organ for donation is a risk to your health, so it affects the public, since you are public!! STOP DONATING ORGANS!". Or the whole gay marriage thing... just as stupid "IT WILL AFFECT THE CHILDREN AND NORMAL MARRIAGES!". You can't poison people with your fat. You can't second hand fatten them. If I eat a donut, my dog won't get fat, my mom won't get fat, you won't get fat. Unless you also eat donut, obviously.

"Drinking water in massive amounts can kill you. Killing you is a threat for your health, no? Ergo water is a threat to public health."

You can't eat money? Sure you can, you can buy shit with it. What isn't there? Last I checked, McDonalds are still open and doing great. Countries that are poor and famished aren't because it's fat people's fault, it's economics and poor conditions for agriculture. Educate yourself. All of your arguments are hypothetical fallacies for the sake of argument.

Just admit that you treat them like trash because you find them icky. That's why most people hate homosexuals, too. Not what their priest/holy book/pastor says, they just find the idea of people being different a scary idea.

Come on we're not talking about slightly obesse people here. I find nothimg more painfull to watch then a girl suffering from anorexia, it's infinetly better to be slightly overweight then seriously underweight. But we're not talking about slightly obessed people, we're talking about moriable obese people. The right woman in the video wasn't moriable obese, but the left one seemed to be aproaching it.
I myself don't really fear second hand smoking. I realize it poses a health risk, but then you probably need to spend an hour a day in a small room with a chainsmoker. Not a likely senario.
I admit that I'm a bit creeped out if a see an moriable obese person in bathing clothes at the beach. That's how far my problem with fat people specifically go. I do however believe that it's ones responsiblilty to put a serious effort to stay heatlhy.
Maybe our definition of discrimation is different. I don't mean it's okay to bash them, I do think it's okay to discus things like fat-tax or things like that.

Fat tax? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Let's make a gay-tax, since gay people don't have children! Let's make a bald-tax, because bald people don't get haircuts and halt the hairdressing industry!

Morbidly... not moriable...

And I found out your issue with fat people - not because unhealthy, not because bad. Because you don't like them. And that's fine. Just don't fucking dare thinking about laws to make people you dislike get worse treatment.

You don't fear second hand smoking? You do realize that smoke from cigarettes has 10 times more carcinogens than the one people smoke normally?

Okay I've about had it with being accused of hating. You want to believe I'm a homophobe? I'm actually bisexual, but go ahead. You want to believe I'm a racist? My Idol and one of my few hopes for humanity was Ghandi, and the most inspiring person I've ever personally met was an African man, but go ahead. You want to believe I hate fat people? My ex and first girlfriend I'm still pretty crazy about is plump, and one of my best friend is fat, but go ahead.
Do you even realize that we in fact do have taxes for other dangerous livestyles? acoholisme is discouraged by having high taxes on acohol, smoking is discouraged by having high taxes on tabaco, etc etc, but of course it's a big no no to raise taxes on junkfood to discourage obesity.
Also about the 10 times more carconogens from second hand-smoking, just the most basic understanding of physics will tell you that is bullcrap. Unless you're in a small poorly ventilated room, second hand smoking won't do you much harm. Second hand smoking was an issue for office workers and the like, but the new laws have fixed it.
And about my spelling: F*ck you, English isn't my native language, I thaught myself, and I'm dyslectic.

I don't give a damn if your spelling is terrible, English isn't my native language either, use a damn spell checker if you are too lazy. You might sound a little more convincing. And using dyslectic as a shield against criticism? Damn, I'm arguing with a child again... because no adult would use such a poor excuse in this day and age when typing on a PC...

Alcoholism and smoking causes actual damage to people around. You can't cause an accident because you are too fat, and your car will crash into a group of schoolchildren. You can't give cancer to your family if you smoke for 10 years straight pack a day. New laws don't "fix" second hand smoking, it still exists in private homes. Unless you think children don't deserve protection from carcinogenic substances.

I didn't say you are homophobic or racist, I just highlighted the stupidity of your anti-fat tax argument. Don't respond, tired of arguing with the average person... reminds me why I stopped visiting Escapist for so long...

 

[BRex21]

Y'know, i've been too fat in my early teenage years, too thin for a few and I have been criticized for "not being real" at my peak.
Honestly everyone discriminates against everyone who does not fit their ideal mould and there is no body that will excuse you from ridicule.

 

[Tsaba]

"obese"

I've never met a fat person who got out and did some exercise, my best friend was fat for as long as I can remember, it wasn't until he started eating right and getting out more that he lost a lot of weight.

That being said, people will discriminate on anything if they want to, but, watching people who could better roll faster than they can waddle across the store generally make me physically ill to see, it's like watching someone suck at video games horribly, it "pains" me to watch.

 

[kasperbbs]

Being a bit chubby is allright i guess. I saw an article about a morbidly obese american family who claim to be simply too fat to work and live off the government(other peoples taxes). That is simply fucked up. People like that should fucking die, i don't work 50 hours a week to support assholes who do nothing but eat all day every day. I have never made fun of fat people myself, mainly because i was overweight as a child, but i did something about it because i got sick of the ridicule, so i guess a little bit of discrimination is a good thing.

 

[rutger5000]

I treat fat people in the same way I would consider chain smokers. They are a threat for public health, and they can be flat out disgusting, and simple steps can be take to become less fat. (Save the world, become a vegetarian and watch you fat drop down.) And if it becomes a serious problem it's more then okay to discrinate against obese people. Look I get genetics and all, but I won't buy it that you won't lose weight if you just avoid animal fat and all that progressed stuff they dare to call food in America. Same as I get addiction, but I won't buy it that nicotine stickers and perhaps some thearapy won't get you of smoking.
To all that find this offensive. We as the world are going to face food shortage in the next few decades, until genetically enhanched crops finally make their entrance. We simpely wouldn't be able to support fat people's live habbits, nor would it be ethical with a significant proportion of the world starving to dead.

How is someone fat or obese a THREAT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH? Holy fuck I don't get some of you people. You're scared they'll what, collapse the sidewalk? Cause an earthquake? Leak fat and make people around them fat?

"We simply wouldn't be able to support fat people's living habits" boo hoo I guess, as long as they have money for fast foods and garbage to eat, they won't be short of food. Ethical? Welcome to business. You want to convince McDonalds to sell only to poor African children for $0.1 per burger? Go ahead.

I sense that a fat person insulted you or punched you when you were younger. Can't seem to find a reason to hate someone based on their appearance otherwise.

Fat people are part of the public, no? Being fat is a threat for you health, no? Ergo fat people are a thread for public health. If you don't follow this reasoning, for which I wouldn't blame you. Fat people take up hospital beds, we're lacking hospital beds.

And no I've never been hurt by a fat person in my live, and a good friend of mine is nearing obesity.
About 'not being able to support fat people', first off you can't eat money, second off you can't buy what isn't there, third off I have to admit I was referencing from Europe's prespective hear. America with it's enormous abundancy of land and recourses will be able to support their own civiliances. In Europe we would have needed to import food from nations that are lacking it themselves.
Again I treat fat people exactly like I treat chainsmokers. Do I have a problem with chainsmokers? I myself no. But I get discrimation against them, and I won't run to their aid when public opinion is pushing them to change their livestyle.

That's a fallacy. "If A leads to B, then A must be stopped!". Hey, here's an interesting fact - people who are slightly obese live longer than people who are either normal weight, underweight or very obese. Weird, huh.

Being fat doesn't affect anyone else. That's like saying "Giving an organ for donation is a risk to your health, so it affects the public, since you are public!! STOP DONATING ORGANS!". Or the whole gay marriage thing... just as stupid "IT WILL AFFECT THE CHILDREN AND NORMAL MARRIAGES!". You can't poison people with your fat. You can't second hand fatten them. If I eat a donut, my dog won't get fat, my mom won't get fat, you won't get fat. Unless you also eat donut, obviously.

"Drinking water in massive amounts can kill you. Killing you is a threat for your health, no? Ergo water is a threat to public health."

You can't eat money? Sure you can, you can buy shit with it. What isn't there? Last I checked, McDonalds are still open and doing great. Countries that are poor and famished aren't because it's fat people's fault, it's economics and poor conditions for agriculture. Educate yourself. All of your arguments are hypothetical fallacies for the sake of argument.

Just admit that you treat them like trash because you find them icky. That's why most people hate homosexuals, too. Not what their priest/holy book/pastor says, they just find the idea of people being different a scary idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States

Over 35 percent of American adults are obese. Not overweight, they're obese. How is that not a problem? Make all the rhetorical circles that you want, but according to the CDC, the obesity rate caused an increase in medical spending by 75 billion dollars in 2003 alone.

And I care about America very, very deeply. Oh, wait, no, 3/4 of you also think evolution isn't real. That's a bigger problem in my eyes.

Also, obesity isn't caused by people. It's caused by obese people themselves. Stop treating it like an epidemic just because media does. It's a rising problem, but it doesn't validate discriminating people, and this is what the topic is about.

I treat fat people in the same way I would consider chain smokers. They are a threat for public health, and they can be flat out disgusting, and simple steps can be take to become less fat. (Save the world, become a vegetarian and watch you fat drop down.) And if it becomes a serious problem it's more then okay to discrinate against obese people. Look I get genetics and all, but I won't buy it that you won't lose weight if you just avoid animal fat and all that progressed stuff they dare to call food in America. Same as I get addiction, but I won't buy it that nicotine stickers and perhaps some thearapy won't get you of smoking.
To all that find this offensive. We as the world are going to face food shortage in the next few decades, until genetically enhanched crops finally make their entrance. We simpely wouldn't be able to support fat people's live habbits, nor would it be ethical with a significant proportion of the world starving to dead.

How is someone fat or obese a THREAT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH? Holy fuck I don't get some of you people. You're scared they'll what, collapse the sidewalk? Cause an earthquake? Leak fat and make people around them fat?

"We simply wouldn't be able to support fat people's living habits" boo hoo I guess, as long as they have money for fast foods and garbage to eat, they won't be short of food. Ethical? Welcome to business. You want to convince McDonalds to sell only to poor African children for $0.1 per burger? Go ahead.

I sense that a fat person insulted you or punched you when you were younger. Can't seem to find a reason to hate someone based on their appearance otherwise.

Fat people are part of the public, no? Being fat is a threat for you health, no? Ergo fat people are a thread for public health. If you don't follow this reasoning, for which I wouldn't blame you. Fat people take up hospital beds, we're lacking hospital beds.

And no I've never been hurt by a fat person in my live, and a good friend of mine is nearing obesity.
About 'not being able to support fat people', first off you can't eat money, second off you can't buy what isn't there, third off I have to admit I was referencing from Europe's prespective hear. America with it's enormous abundancy of land and recourses will be able to support their own civiliances. In Europe we would have needed to import food from nations that are lacking it themselves.
Again I treat fat people exactly like I treat chainsmokers. Do I have a problem with chainsmokers? I myself no. But I get discrimation against them, and I won't run to their aid when public opinion is pushing them to change their livestyle.

That's a fallacy. "If A leads to B, then A must be stopped!". Hey, here's an interesting fact - people who are slightly obese live longer than people who are either normal weight, underweight or very obese. Weird, huh.

Being fat doesn't affect anyone else. That's like saying "Giving an organ for donation is a risk to your health, so it affects the public, since you are public!! STOP DONATING ORGANS!". Or the whole gay marriage thing... just as stupid "IT WILL AFFECT THE CHILDREN AND NORMAL MARRIAGES!". You can't poison people with your fat. You can't second hand fatten them. If I eat a donut, my dog won't get fat, my mom won't get fat, you won't get fat. Unless you also eat donut, obviously.

"Drinking water in massive amounts can kill you. Killing you is a threat for your health, no? Ergo water is a threat to public health."

You can't eat money? Sure you can, you can buy shit with it. What isn't there? Last I checked, McDonalds are still open and doing great. Countries that are poor and famished aren't because it's fat people's fault, it's economics and poor conditions for agriculture. Educate yourself. All of your arguments are hypothetical fallacies for the sake of argument.

Just admit that you treat them like trash because you find them icky. That's why most people hate homosexuals, too. Not what their priest/holy book/pastor says, they just find the idea of people being different a scary idea.

Come on we're not talking about slightly obesse people here. I find nothimg more painfull to watch then a girl suffering from anorexia, it's infinetly better to be slightly overweight then seriously underweight. But we're not talking about slightly obessed people, we're talking about moriable obese people. The right woman in the video wasn't moriable obese, but the left one seemed to be aproaching it.
I myself don't really fear second hand smoking. I realize it poses a health risk, but then you probably need to spend an hour a day in a small room with a chainsmoker. Not a likely senario.
I admit that I'm a bit creeped out if a see an moriable obese person in bathing clothes at the beach. That's how far my problem with fat people specifically go. I do however believe that it's ones responsiblilty to put a serious effort to stay heatlhy.
Maybe our definition of discrimation is different. I don't mean it's okay to bash them, I do think it's okay to discus things like fat-tax or things like that.

Fat tax? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Let's make a gay-tax, since gay people don't have children! Let's make a bald-tax, because bald people don't get haircuts and halt the hairdressing industry!

Morbidly... not moriable...

And I found out your issue with fat people - not because unhealthy, not because bad. Because you don't like them. And that's fine. Just don't fucking dare thinking about laws to make people you dislike get worse treatment.

You don't fear second hand smoking? You do realize that smoke from cigarettes has 10 times more carcinogens than the one people smoke normally?

Okay I've about had it with being accused of hating. You want to believe I'm a homophobe? I'm actually bisexual, but go ahead. You want to believe I'm a racist? My Idol and one of my few hopes for humanity was Ghandi, and the most inspiring person I've ever personally met was an African man, but go ahead. You want to believe I hate fat people? My ex and first girlfriend I'm still pretty crazy about is plump, and one of my best friend is fat, but go ahead.
Do you even realize that we in fact do have taxes for other dangerous livestyles? acoholisme is discouraged by having high taxes on acohol, smoking is discouraged by having high taxes on tabaco, etc etc, but of course it's a big no no to raise taxes on junkfood to discourage obesity.
Also about the 10 times more carconogens from second hand-smoking, just the most basic understanding of physics will tell you that is bullcrap. Unless you're in a small poorly ventilated room, second hand smoking won't do you much harm. Second hand smoking was an issue for office workers and the like, but the new laws have fixed it.
And about my spelling: F*ck you, English isn't my native language, I thaught myself, and I'm dyslectic.

I don't give a damn if your spelling is terrible, English isn't my native language either, use a damn spell checker if you are too lazy. You might sound a little more convincing. And using dyslectic as a shield against criticism? Damn, I'm arguing with a child again... because no adult would use such a poor excuse in this day and age when typing on a PC...

Alcoholism and smoking causes actual damage to people around. You can't cause an accident because you are too fat, and your car will crash into a group of schoolchildren. You can't give cancer to your family if you smoke for 10 years straight pack a day. New laws don't "fix" second hand smoking, it still exists in private homes. Unless you think children don't deserve protection from carcinogenic substances.

I didn't say you are homophobic or racist, I just highlighted the stupidity of your anti-fat tax argument. Don't respond, tired of arguing with the average person... reminds me why I stopped visiting Escapist for so long...

And being fat doesn't harm your family? A child doesn't have a higher risk to have health problems if his/her mother was obese during pregnancy? And no you didn't call me homophobic or racist, but you certainly did imply I was. Also you did flat out claimed I hate fat people. I'm sure you remember that, and I'm sure you consiously left that out in this comment.
Don't talk the average person down, there is nothing wrong with being average, and don't act high and mighty. I freely admit I wasn't debating properly, but neither were you. If you stopped visting the escapist to flee from the average person, then go and ahead and hide in your ivory tower believing you're better then everybody who doesn't agree with you.
Feel free to respond, I don't mind arguing, and perhaps you'll reread your comments and see that you kind of have been acting like a jerk.