Obesity Discrimination

[suitepee7]

And don't say it costs society money - most of us are at work posting here, if not we're at school or could be volunteering or something, so we're all being jackasses and being a general waste as we are now. Wasting company money, education money, free time on ourselves... until you're a model citizen, shut up.

i'm at home, my work has nothing to do with computers anyway, and i pay taxes. it IS costing my government a lot of money due to the nature of the NHS, and i, along with many other British taxpayers, are paying for the majority of their healthcare. And the volunteering aspect has little to do with this issue really, we are entitled to spend our free time as we wish.

OT: i don't really care about fat people, unless they cost me money. personally i think if a medical condition is brought on by your lifestyle, you should have to pay for it (smokers, alcoholics etc). otherwise, i just don't care. people can live their lives however they damn well like.

 

[Amarok]

And I've never been to a doctor's appointment of any kind and not been encouraged to be more healthy (except maybe the eye doctor).

Well lucky you, but studies show that doctors tend to prescribe weightloss in obese patients for anything from high blood pressure to strep throat. They will more often than not make no attempt whatsoever to find a cause for any illness an obese person may have, immediately chalking it up to their obesity. Which is also where the inflated obesity morality rates come from. You get hit by a truck in America as a fat person and your resulting death is blamed on obesity. +50% of doctors find obese patients to be "awkward, unattractive, unpleasant to be around" and 17% are "repulsed" by them.

In addition to it being difficult for obese patients to receive sound medical advice from a biased doctor (who thankfully don't account for every doctor, but from a disturbing amount nonetheless), there are also laws rushing through Britain and America all the time which deny proper healthcare to the overweight.

If you think weight bias among the medical profession doesn't exist because you haven't personally experienced it, then whatever.

Bibliography:
http://www.tampabay.com/features/fitness/doctors-weight-bias-causes-some-people-to-avoid-medical-care/1180510
http://www.more.com/weight-loss-diet-myth
http://www.shakesville.com/2008/03/reality-check-why-dont-fat-women-get.html

 

[RafaelNegrus]

And I've never been to a doctor's appointment of any kind and not been encouraged to be more healthy (except maybe the eye doctor).

Well lucky you, but studies show that doctors tend to prescribe weightloss in obese patients for anything from high blood pressure to strep throat. They will more often than not make no attempt whatsoever to find a cause for any illness an obese person may have, immediately chalking it up to their obesity. Which is also where the inflated obesity morality rates come from. You get hit by a truck in America as a fat person and your resulting death is blamed on obesity. +50% of doctors find obese patients to be "awkward, unattractive, unpleasant to be around" and 17% are "repulsed" by them.

In addition to it being difficult for obese patients to receive sound medical advice from a biased doctor (who thankfully don't account for every doctor, but from a disturbing amount nonetheless), there are also laws rushing through Britain and America all the time which deny proper healthcare to the overweight.

If you think weight bias among the medical profession doesn't exist because you haven't personally experienced it, then whatever.

Bibliography:
http://www.tampabay.com/features/fitness/doctors-weight-bias-causes-some-people-to-avoid-medical-care/1180510
http://www.more.com/weight-loss-diet-myth
http://www.shakesville.com/2008/03/reality-check-why-dont-fat-women-get.html

I'm just saying that doctors always tell you to improve your diet and exercise more (well, exercise wasn't an issue during my cross country days, but besides then). I didn't see in those articles the 50% bit, I saw 24%, and that was nurses.

But quite simply, doctors are people too. They have their own failings and the nature of the profession is to try and point them out, but it also creates a culture of knowing what is best for a patient and not one of listening. As a patient what a person can do is switch doctors to one that does listen more.

And your second article that you linked there is just completely based on the other one I linked earlier, try and diversify your sources as it weakens your argument. One doctor does not make scientific fact.

 

[Vegosiux]

personally i think if a medical condition is brought on by your lifestyle, you should have to pay for it (smokers, alcoholics etc).

"Should"? Sales taxes on tobacco and alcohol would like to say hello. Non-smokers and non-drinkers don't pay those. Smokers and drinkers do. So why are you saying they "should" do something they already are doing?

 

[thiosk]

Being fat is a temporary problem.

This problem will largely go away when food inflation really goes out of control, because of the long standing world wide resistance to genetically modified crops and factory raised meat, and the unrelenting increase in populations-- especially in locations that cannot produce enough food to feed them.

It will just take one good climate thump-- a big volcano, for example, that whacks America's food production for two years to drive a substantial portion of the world population into starvation and food prices through the roof. People will simply be incapable of consuming the 5000-30,000 calories per day that keep them obese.

 

[suitepee7]

personally i think if a medical condition is brought on by your lifestyle, you should have to pay for it (smokers, alcoholics etc).

"Should"? Sales taxes on tobacco and alcohol would like to say hello. Non-smokers and non-drinkers don't pay those. Smokers and drinkers do. So why are you saying they "should" do something they already are doing?

that is buying the product, needing a liver transplant because its fucked from alcoholism is what is paid for on the NHS, and is what is taken out of taxpayer money. they choose to drink it, they should pay for the treatment because they caused it. nobody forced them into it

 

[Vegosiux]

that is buying the product, needing a liver transplant because its fucked from alcoholism is what is paid for on the NHS, and is what is taken out of taxpayer money. they choose to drink it, they should pay for the treatment because they caused it. nobody forced them into it

There's a reason the thing is called a "sales tax". As in the money the government takes. Other things being equal, a smoker already pays more in taxes than a non-smoker.

 

[rutger5000]

I treat fat people in the same way I would consider chain smokers. They are a threat for public health, and they can be flat out disgusting, and simple steps can be take to become less fat. (Save the world, become a vegetarian and watch you fat drop down.) And if it becomes a serious problem it's more then okay to discrinate against obese people. Look I get genetics and all, but I won't buy it that you won't lose weight if you just avoid animal fat and all that progressed stuff they dare to call food in America. Same as I get addiction, but I won't buy it that nicotine stickers and perhaps some thearapy won't get you of smoking.
To all that find this offensive. We as the world are going to face food shortage in the next few decades, until genetically enhanched crops finally make their entrance. We simpely wouldn't be able to support fat people's live habbits, nor would it be ethical with a significant proportion of the world starving to dead.

How is someone fat or obese a THREAT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH? Holy fuck I don't get some of you people. You're scared they'll what, collapse the sidewalk? Cause an earthquake? Leak fat and make people around them fat?

"We simply wouldn't be able to support fat people's living habits" boo hoo I guess, as long as they have money for fast foods and garbage to eat, they won't be short of food. Ethical? Welcome to business. You want to convince McDonalds to sell only to poor African children for $0.1 per burger? Go ahead.

I sense that a fat person insulted you or punched you when you were younger. Can't seem to find a reason to hate someone based on their appearance otherwise.

Fat people are part of the public, no? Being fat is a threat for you health, no? Ergo fat people are a thread for public health. If you don't follow this reasoning, for which I wouldn't blame you. Fat people take up hospital beds, we're lacking hospital beds.

And no I've never been hurt by a fat person in my live, and a good friend of mine is nearing obesity.
About 'not being able to support fat people', first off you can't eat money, second off you can't buy what isn't there, third off I have to admit I was referencing from Europe's prespective hear. America with it's enormous abundancy of land and recourses will be able to support their own civiliances. In Europe we would have needed to import food from nations that are lacking it themselves.
Again I treat fat people exactly like I treat chainsmokers. Do I have a problem with chainsmokers? I myself no. But I get discrimation against them, and I won't run to their aid when public opinion is pushing them to change their livestyle.

That's a fallacy. "If A leads to B, then A must be stopped!". Hey, here's an interesting fact - people who are slightly obese live longer than people who are either normal weight, underweight or very obese. Weird, huh.

Being fat doesn't affect anyone else. That's like saying "Giving an organ for donation is a risk to your health, so it affects the public, since you are public!! STOP DONATING ORGANS!". Or the whole gay marriage thing... just as stupid "IT WILL AFFECT THE CHILDREN AND NORMAL MARRIAGES!". You can't poison people with your fat. You can't second hand fatten them. If I eat a donut, my dog won't get fat, my mom won't get fat, you won't get fat. Unless you also eat donut, obviously.

"Drinking water in massive amounts can kill you. Killing you is a threat for your health, no? Ergo water is a threat to public health."

You can't eat money? Sure you can, you can buy shit with it. What isn't there? Last I checked, McDonalds are still open and doing great. Countries that are poor and famished aren't because it's fat people's fault, it's economics and poor conditions for agriculture. Educate yourself. All of your arguments are hypothetical fallacies for the sake of argument.

Just admit that you treat them like trash because you find them icky. That's why most people hate homosexuals, too. Not what their priest/holy book/pastor says, they just find the idea of people being different a scary idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States

Over 35 percent of American adults are obese. Not overweight, they're obese. How is that not a problem? Make all the rhetorical circles that you want, but according to the CDC, the obesity rate caused an increase in medical spending by 75 billion dollars in 2003 alone.

And I care about America very, very deeply. Oh, wait, no, 3/4 of you also think evolution isn't real. That's a bigger problem in my eyes.

Also, obesity isn't caused by people. It's caused by obese people themselves. Stop treating it like an epidemic just because media does. It's a rising problem, but it doesn't validate discriminating people, and this is what the topic is about.

I treat fat people in the same way I would consider chain smokers. They are a threat for public health, and they can be flat out disgusting, and simple steps can be take to become less fat. (Save the world, become a vegetarian and watch you fat drop down.) And if it becomes a serious problem it's more then okay to discrinate against obese people. Look I get genetics and all, but I won't buy it that you won't lose weight if you just avoid animal fat and all that progressed stuff they dare to call food in America. Same as I get addiction, but I won't buy it that nicotine stickers and perhaps some thearapy won't get you of smoking.
To all that find this offensive. We as the world are going to face food shortage in the next few decades, until genetically enhanched crops finally make their entrance. We simpely wouldn't be able to support fat people's live habbits, nor would it be ethical with a significant proportion of the world starving to dead.

How is someone fat or obese a THREAT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH? Holy fuck I don't get some of you people. You're scared they'll what, collapse the sidewalk? Cause an earthquake? Leak fat and make people around them fat?

"We simply wouldn't be able to support fat people's living habits" boo hoo I guess, as long as they have money for fast foods and garbage to eat, they won't be short of food. Ethical? Welcome to business. You want to convince McDonalds to sell only to poor African children for $0.1 per burger? Go ahead.

I sense that a fat person insulted you or punched you when you were younger. Can't seem to find a reason to hate someone based on their appearance otherwise.

Fat people are part of the public, no? Being fat is a threat for you health, no? Ergo fat people are a thread for public health. If you don't follow this reasoning, for which I wouldn't blame you. Fat people take up hospital beds, we're lacking hospital beds.

And no I've never been hurt by a fat person in my live, and a good friend of mine is nearing obesity.
About 'not being able to support fat people', first off you can't eat money, second off you can't buy what isn't there, third off I have to admit I was referencing from Europe's prespective hear. America with it's enormous abundancy of land and recourses will be able to support their own civiliances. In Europe we would have needed to import food from nations that are lacking it themselves.
Again I treat fat people exactly like I treat chainsmokers. Do I have a problem with chainsmokers? I myself no. But I get discrimation against them, and I won't run to their aid when public opinion is pushing them to change their livestyle.

That's a fallacy. "If A leads to B, then A must be stopped!". Hey, here's an interesting fact - people who are slightly obese live longer than people who are either normal weight, underweight or very obese. Weird, huh.

Being fat doesn't affect anyone else. That's like saying "Giving an organ for donation is a risk to your health, so it affects the public, since you are public!! STOP DONATING ORGANS!". Or the whole gay marriage thing... just as stupid "IT WILL AFFECT THE CHILDREN AND NORMAL MARRIAGES!". You can't poison people with your fat. You can't second hand fatten them. If I eat a donut, my dog won't get fat, my mom won't get fat, you won't get fat. Unless you also eat donut, obviously.

"Drinking water in massive amounts can kill you. Killing you is a threat for your health, no? Ergo water is a threat to public health."

You can't eat money? Sure you can, you can buy shit with it. What isn't there? Last I checked, McDonalds are still open and doing great. Countries that are poor and famished aren't because it's fat people's fault, it's economics and poor conditions for agriculture. Educate yourself. All of your arguments are hypothetical fallacies for the sake of argument.

Just admit that you treat them like trash because you find them icky. That's why most people hate homosexuals, too. Not what their priest/holy book/pastor says, they just find the idea of people being different a scary idea.

Come on we're not talking about slightly obesse people here. I find nothimg more painfull to watch then a girl suffering from anorexia, it's infinetly better to be slightly overweight then seriously underweight. But we're not talking about slightly obessed people, we're talking about moriable obese people. The right woman in the video wasn't moriable obese, but the left one seemed to be aproaching it.
I myself don't really fear second hand smoking. I realize it poses a health risk, but then you probably need to spend an hour a day in a small room with a chainsmoker. Not a likely senario.
I admit that I'm a bit creeped out if a see an moriable obese person in bathing clothes at the beach. That's how far my problem with fat people specifically go. I do however believe that it's ones responsiblilty to put a serious effort to stay heatlhy.
Maybe our definition of discrimation is different. I don't mean it's okay to bash them, I do think it's okay to discus things like fat-tax or things like that.

Fat tax? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Let's make a gay-tax, since gay people don't have children! Let's make a bald-tax, because bald people don't get haircuts and halt the hairdressing industry!

Morbidly... not moriable...

And I found out your issue with fat people - not because unhealthy, not because bad. Because you don't like them. And that's fine. Just don't fucking dare thinking about laws to make people you dislike get worse treatment.

You don't fear second hand smoking? You do realize that smoke from cigarettes has 10 times more carcinogens than the one people smoke normally?

Okay I've about had it with being accused of hating. You want to believe I'm a homophobe? I'm actually bisexual, but go ahead. You want to believe I'm a racist? My Idol and one of my few hopes for humanity was Ghandi, and the most inspiring person I've ever personally met was an African man, but go ahead. You want to believe I hate fat people? My ex and first girlfriend I'm still pretty crazy about is plump, and one of my best friend is fat, but go ahead.
Do you even realize that we in fact do have taxes for other dangerous livestyles? acoholisme is discouraged by having high taxes on acohol, smoking is discouraged by having high taxes on tabaco, etc etc, but of course it's a big no no to raise taxes on junkfood to discourage obesity.
Also about the 10 times more carconogens from second hand-smoking, just the most basic understanding of physics will tell you that is bullcrap. Unless you're in a small poorly ventilated room, second hand smoking won't do you much harm. Second hand smoking was an issue for office workers and the like, but the new laws have fixed it.
And about my spelling: F*ck you, English isn't my native language, I thaught myself, and I'm dyslectic.

 

[Abedeus]

I treat fat people in the same way I would consider chain smokers. They are a threat for public health, and they can be flat out disgusting, and simple steps can be take to become less fat. (Save the world, become a vegetarian and watch you fat drop down.) And if it becomes a serious problem it's more then okay to discrinate against obese people. Look I get genetics and all, but I won't buy it that you won't lose weight if you just avoid animal fat and all that progressed stuff they dare to call food in America. Same as I get addiction, but I won't buy it that nicotine stickers and perhaps some thearapy won't get you of smoking.
To all that find this offensive. We as the world are going to face food shortage in the next few decades, until genetically enhanched crops finally make their entrance. We simpely wouldn't be able to support fat people's live habbits, nor would it be ethical with a significant proportion of the world starving to dead.

How is someone fat or obese a THREAT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH? Holy fuck I don't get some of you people. You're scared they'll what, collapse the sidewalk? Cause an earthquake? Leak fat and make people around them fat?

"We simply wouldn't be able to support fat people's living habits" boo hoo I guess, as long as they have money for fast foods and garbage to eat, they won't be short of food. Ethical? Welcome to business. You want to convince McDonalds to sell only to poor African children for $0.1 per burger? Go ahead.

I sense that a fat person insulted you or punched you when you were younger. Can't seem to find a reason to hate someone based on their appearance otherwise.

Fat people are part of the public, no? Being fat is a threat for you health, no? Ergo fat people are a thread for public health. If you don't follow this reasoning, for which I wouldn't blame you. Fat people take up hospital beds, we're lacking hospital beds.

And no I've never been hurt by a fat person in my live, and a good friend of mine is nearing obesity.
About 'not being able to support fat people', first off you can't eat money, second off you can't buy what isn't there, third off I have to admit I was referencing from Europe's prespective hear. America with it's enormous abundancy of land and recourses will be able to support their own civiliances. In Europe we would have needed to import food from nations that are lacking it themselves.
Again I treat fat people exactly like I treat chainsmokers. Do I have a problem with chainsmokers? I myself no. But I get discrimation against them, and I won't run to their aid when public opinion is pushing them to change their livestyle.

That's a fallacy. "If A leads to B, then A must be stopped!". Hey, here's an interesting fact - people who are slightly obese live longer than people who are either normal weight, underweight or very obese. Weird, huh.

Being fat doesn't affect anyone else. That's like saying "Giving an organ for donation is a risk to your health, so it affects the public, since you are public!! STOP DONATING ORGANS!". Or the whole gay marriage thing... just as stupid "IT WILL AFFECT THE CHILDREN AND NORMAL MARRIAGES!". You can't poison people with your fat. You can't second hand fatten them. If I eat a donut, my dog won't get fat, my mom won't get fat, you won't get fat. Unless you also eat donut, obviously.

"Drinking water in massive amounts can kill you. Killing you is a threat for your health, no? Ergo water is a threat to public health."

You can't eat money? Sure you can, you can buy shit with it. What isn't there? Last I checked, McDonalds are still open and doing great. Countries that are poor and famished aren't because it's fat people's fault, it's economics and poor conditions for agriculture. Educate yourself. All of your arguments are hypothetical fallacies for the sake of argument.

Just admit that you treat them like trash because you find them icky. That's why most people hate homosexuals, too. Not what their priest/holy book/pastor says, they just find the idea of people being different a scary idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States

Over 35 percent of American adults are obese. Not overweight, they're obese. How is that not a problem? Make all the rhetorical circles that you want, but according to the CDC, the obesity rate caused an increase in medical spending by 75 billion dollars in 2003 alone.

And I care about America very, very deeply. Oh, wait, no, 3/4 of you also think evolution isn't real. That's a bigger problem in my eyes.

Also, obesity isn't caused by people. It's caused by obese people themselves. Stop treating it like an epidemic just because media does. It's a rising problem, but it doesn't validate discriminating people, and this is what the topic is about.

I treat fat people in the same way I would consider chain smokers. They are a threat for public health, and they can be flat out disgusting, and simple steps can be take to become less fat. (Save the world, become a vegetarian and watch you fat drop down.) And if it becomes a serious problem it's more then okay to discrinate against obese people. Look I get genetics and all, but I won't buy it that you won't lose weight if you just avoid animal fat and all that progressed stuff they dare to call food in America. Same as I get addiction, but I won't buy it that nicotine stickers and perhaps some thearapy won't get you of smoking.
To all that find this offensive. We as the world are going to face food shortage in the next few decades, until genetically enhanched crops finally make their entrance. We simpely wouldn't be able to support fat people's live habbits, nor would it be ethical with a significant proportion of the world starving to dead.

How is someone fat or obese a THREAT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH? Holy fuck I don't get some of you people. You're scared they'll what, collapse the sidewalk? Cause an earthquake? Leak fat and make people around them fat?

"We simply wouldn't be able to support fat people's living habits" boo hoo I guess, as long as they have money for fast foods and garbage to eat, they won't be short of food. Ethical? Welcome to business. You want to convince McDonalds to sell only to poor African children for $0.1 per burger? Go ahead.

I sense that a fat person insulted you or punched you when you were younger. Can't seem to find a reason to hate someone based on their appearance otherwise.

Fat people are part of the public, no? Being fat is a threat for you health, no? Ergo fat people are a thread for public health. If you don't follow this reasoning, for which I wouldn't blame you. Fat people take up hospital beds, we're lacking hospital beds.

And no I've never been hurt by a fat person in my live, and a good friend of mine is nearing obesity.
About 'not being able to support fat people', first off you can't eat money, second off you can't buy what isn't there, third off I have to admit I was referencing from Europe's prespective hear. America with it's enormous abundancy of land and recourses will be able to support their own civiliances. In Europe we would have needed to import food from nations that are lacking it themselves.
Again I treat fat people exactly like I treat chainsmokers. Do I have a problem with chainsmokers? I myself no. But I get discrimation against them, and I won't run to their aid when public opinion is pushing them to change their livestyle.

That's a fallacy. "If A leads to B, then A must be stopped!". Hey, here's an interesting fact - people who are slightly obese live longer than people who are either normal weight, underweight or very obese. Weird, huh.

Being fat doesn't affect anyone else. That's like saying "Giving an organ for donation is a risk to your health, so it affects the public, since you are public!! STOP DONATING ORGANS!". Or the whole gay marriage thing... just as stupid "IT WILL AFFECT THE CHILDREN AND NORMAL MARRIAGES!". You can't poison people with your fat. You can't second hand fatten them. If I eat a donut, my dog won't get fat, my mom won't get fat, you won't get fat. Unless you also eat donut, obviously.

"Drinking water in massive amounts can kill you. Killing you is a threat for your health, no? Ergo water is a threat to public health."

You can't eat money? Sure you can, you can buy shit with it. What isn't there? Last I checked, McDonalds are still open and doing great. Countries that are poor and famished aren't because it's fat people's fault, it's economics and poor conditions for agriculture. Educate yourself. All of your arguments are hypothetical fallacies for the sake of argument.

Just admit that you treat them like trash because you find them icky. That's why most people hate homosexuals, too. Not what their priest/holy book/pastor says, they just find the idea of people being different a scary idea.

Come on we're not talking about slightly obesse people here. I find nothimg more painfull to watch then a girl suffering from anorexia, it's infinetly better to be slightly overweight then seriously underweight. But we're not talking about slightly obessed people, we're talking about moriable obese people. The right woman in the video wasn't moriable obese, but the left one seemed to be aproaching it.
I myself don't really fear second hand smoking. I realize it poses a health risk, but then you probably need to spend an hour a day in a small room with a chainsmoker. Not a likely senario.
I admit that I'm a bit creeped out if a see an moriable obese person in bathing clothes at the beach. That's how far my problem with fat people specifically go. I do however believe that it's ones responsiblilty to put a serious effort to stay heatlhy.
Maybe our definition of discrimation is different. I don't mean it's okay to bash them, I do think it's okay to discus things like fat-tax or things like that.

Fat tax? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Let's make a gay-tax, since gay people don't have children! Let's make a bald-tax, because bald people don't get haircuts and halt the hairdressing industry!

Morbidly... not moriable...

And I found out your issue with fat people - not because unhealthy, not because bad. Because you don't like them. And that's fine. Just don't fucking dare thinking about laws to make people you dislike get worse treatment.

You don't fear second hand smoking? You do realize that smoke from cigarettes has 10 times more carcinogens than the one people smoke normally?

Okay I've about had it with being accused of hating. You want to believe I'm a homophobe? I'm actually bisexual, but go ahead. You want to believe I'm a racist? My Idol and one of my few hopes for humanity was Ghandi, and the most inspiring person I've ever personally met was an African man, but go ahead. You want to believe I hate fat people? My ex and first girlfriend I'm still pretty crazy about is plump, and one of my best friend is fat, but go ahead.
Do you even realize that we in fact do have taxes for other dangerous livestyles? acoholisme is discouraged by having high taxes on acohol, smoking is discouraged by having high taxes on tabaco, etc etc, but of course it's a big no no to raise taxes on junkfood to discourage obesity.
Also about the 10 times more carconogens from second hand-smoking, just the most basic understanding of physics will tell you that is bullcrap. Unless you're in a small poorly ventilated room, second hand smoking won't do you much harm. Second hand smoking was an issue for office workers and the like, but the new laws have fixed it.
And about my spelling: F*ck you, English isn't my native language, I thaught myself, and I'm dyslectic.

I don't give a damn if your spelling is terrible, English isn't my native language either, use a damn spell checker if you are too lazy. You might sound a little more convincing. And using dyslectic as a shield against criticism? Damn, I'm arguing with a child again... because no adult would use such a poor excuse in this day and age when typing on a PC...

Alcoholism and smoking causes actual damage to people around. You can't cause an accident because you are too fat, and your car will crash into a group of schoolchildren. You can't give cancer to your family if you smoke for 10 years straight pack a day. New laws don't "fix" second hand smoking, it still exists in private homes. Unless you think children don't deserve protection from carcinogenic substances.

I didn't say you are homophobic or racist, I just highlighted the stupidity of your anti-fat tax argument. Don't respond, tired of arguing with the average person... reminds me why I stopped visiting Escapist for so long...

 

[BRex21]

Y'know, i've been too fat in my early teenage years, too thin for a few and I have been criticized for "not being real" at my peak.
Honestly everyone discriminates against everyone who does not fit their ideal mould and there is no body that will excuse you from ridicule.

 

[Tsaba]

"obese"

I've never met a fat person who got out and did some exercise, my best friend was fat for as long as I can remember, it wasn't until he started eating right and getting out more that he lost a lot of weight.

That being said, people will discriminate on anything if they want to, but, watching people who could better roll faster than they can waddle across the store generally make me physically ill to see, it's like watching someone suck at video games horribly, it "pains" me to watch.

 

[kasperbbs]

Being a bit chubby is allright i guess. I saw an article about a morbidly obese american family who claim to be simply too fat to work and live off the government(other peoples taxes). That is simply fucked up. People like that should fucking die, i don't work 50 hours a week to support assholes who do nothing but eat all day every day. I have never made fun of fat people myself, mainly because i was overweight as a child, but i did something about it because i got sick of the ridicule, so i guess a little bit of discrimination is a good thing.

 

[rutger5000]

I treat fat people in the same way I would consider chain smokers. They are a threat for public health, and they can be flat out disgusting, and simple steps can be take to become less fat. (Save the world, become a vegetarian and watch you fat drop down.) And if it becomes a serious problem it's more then okay to discrinate against obese people. Look I get genetics and all, but I won't buy it that you won't lose weight if you just avoid animal fat and all that progressed stuff they dare to call food in America. Same as I get addiction, but I won't buy it that nicotine stickers and perhaps some thearapy won't get you of smoking.
To all that find this offensive. We as the world are going to face food shortage in the next few decades, until genetically enhanched crops finally make their entrance. We simpely wouldn't be able to support fat people's live habbits, nor would it be ethical with a significant proportion of the world starving to dead.

How is someone fat or obese a THREAT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH? Holy fuck I don't get some of you people. You're scared they'll what, collapse the sidewalk? Cause an earthquake? Leak fat and make people around them fat?

"We simply wouldn't be able to support fat people's living habits" boo hoo I guess, as long as they have money for fast foods and garbage to eat, they won't be short of food. Ethical? Welcome to business. You want to convince McDonalds to sell only to poor African children for $0.1 per burger? Go ahead.

I sense that a fat person insulted you or punched you when you were younger. Can't seem to find a reason to hate someone based on their appearance otherwise.

Fat people are part of the public, no? Being fat is a threat for you health, no? Ergo fat people are a thread for public health. If you don't follow this reasoning, for which I wouldn't blame you. Fat people take up hospital beds, we're lacking hospital beds.

And no I've never been hurt by a fat person in my live, and a good friend of mine is nearing obesity.
About 'not being able to support fat people', first off you can't eat money, second off you can't buy what isn't there, third off I have to admit I was referencing from Europe's prespective hear. America with it's enormous abundancy of land and recourses will be able to support their own civiliances. In Europe we would have needed to import food from nations that are lacking it themselves.
Again I treat fat people exactly like I treat chainsmokers. Do I have a problem with chainsmokers? I myself no. But I get discrimation against them, and I won't run to their aid when public opinion is pushing them to change their livestyle.

That's a fallacy. "If A leads to B, then A must be stopped!". Hey, here's an interesting fact - people who are slightly obese live longer than people who are either normal weight, underweight or very obese. Weird, huh.

Being fat doesn't affect anyone else. That's like saying "Giving an organ for donation is a risk to your health, so it affects the public, since you are public!! STOP DONATING ORGANS!". Or the whole gay marriage thing... just as stupid "IT WILL AFFECT THE CHILDREN AND NORMAL MARRIAGES!". You can't poison people with your fat. You can't second hand fatten them. If I eat a donut, my dog won't get fat, my mom won't get fat, you won't get fat. Unless you also eat donut, obviously.

"Drinking water in massive amounts can kill you. Killing you is a threat for your health, no? Ergo water is a threat to public health."

You can't eat money? Sure you can, you can buy shit with it. What isn't there? Last I checked, McDonalds are still open and doing great. Countries that are poor and famished aren't because it's fat people's fault, it's economics and poor conditions for agriculture. Educate yourself. All of your arguments are hypothetical fallacies for the sake of argument.

Just admit that you treat them like trash because you find them icky. That's why most people hate homosexuals, too. Not what their priest/holy book/pastor says, they just find the idea of people being different a scary idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States

Over 35 percent of American adults are obese. Not overweight, they're obese. How is that not a problem? Make all the rhetorical circles that you want, but according to the CDC, the obesity rate caused an increase in medical spending by 75 billion dollars in 2003 alone.

And I care about America very, very deeply. Oh, wait, no, 3/4 of you also think evolution isn't real. That's a bigger problem in my eyes.

Also, obesity isn't caused by people. It's caused by obese people themselves. Stop treating it like an epidemic just because media does. It's a rising problem, but it doesn't validate discriminating people, and this is what the topic is about.

I treat fat people in the same way I would consider chain smokers. They are a threat for public health, and they can be flat out disgusting, and simple steps can be take to become less fat. (Save the world, become a vegetarian and watch you fat drop down.) And if it becomes a serious problem it's more then okay to discrinate against obese people. Look I get genetics and all, but I won't buy it that you won't lose weight if you just avoid animal fat and all that progressed stuff they dare to call food in America. Same as I get addiction, but I won't buy it that nicotine stickers and perhaps some thearapy won't get you of smoking.
To all that find this offensive. We as the world are going to face food shortage in the next few decades, until genetically enhanched crops finally make their entrance. We simpely wouldn't be able to support fat people's live habbits, nor would it be ethical with a significant proportion of the world starving to dead.

How is someone fat or obese a THREAT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH? Holy fuck I don't get some of you people. You're scared they'll what, collapse the sidewalk? Cause an earthquake? Leak fat and make people around them fat?

"We simply wouldn't be able to support fat people's living habits" boo hoo I guess, as long as they have money for fast foods and garbage to eat, they won't be short of food. Ethical? Welcome to business. You want to convince McDonalds to sell only to poor African children for $0.1 per burger? Go ahead.

I sense that a fat person insulted you or punched you when you were younger. Can't seem to find a reason to hate someone based on their appearance otherwise.

Fat people are part of the public, no? Being fat is a threat for you health, no? Ergo fat people are a thread for public health. If you don't follow this reasoning, for which I wouldn't blame you. Fat people take up hospital beds, we're lacking hospital beds.

And no I've never been hurt by a fat person in my live, and a good friend of mine is nearing obesity.
About 'not being able to support fat people', first off you can't eat money, second off you can't buy what isn't there, third off I have to admit I was referencing from Europe's prespective hear. America with it's enormous abundancy of land and recourses will be able to support their own civiliances. In Europe we would have needed to import food from nations that are lacking it themselves.
Again I treat fat people exactly like I treat chainsmokers. Do I have a problem with chainsmokers? I myself no. But I get discrimation against them, and I won't run to their aid when public opinion is pushing them to change their livestyle.

That's a fallacy. "If A leads to B, then A must be stopped!". Hey, here's an interesting fact - people who are slightly obese live longer than people who are either normal weight, underweight or very obese. Weird, huh.

Being fat doesn't affect anyone else. That's like saying "Giving an organ for donation is a risk to your health, so it affects the public, since you are public!! STOP DONATING ORGANS!". Or the whole gay marriage thing... just as stupid "IT WILL AFFECT THE CHILDREN AND NORMAL MARRIAGES!". You can't poison people with your fat. You can't second hand fatten them. If I eat a donut, my dog won't get fat, my mom won't get fat, you won't get fat. Unless you also eat donut, obviously.

"Drinking water in massive amounts can kill you. Killing you is a threat for your health, no? Ergo water is a threat to public health."

You can't eat money? Sure you can, you can buy shit with it. What isn't there? Last I checked, McDonalds are still open and doing great. Countries that are poor and famished aren't because it's fat people's fault, it's economics and poor conditions for agriculture. Educate yourself. All of your arguments are hypothetical fallacies for the sake of argument.

Just admit that you treat them like trash because you find them icky. That's why most people hate homosexuals, too. Not what their priest/holy book/pastor says, they just find the idea of people being different a scary idea.

Come on we're not talking about slightly obesse people here. I find nothimg more painfull to watch then a girl suffering from anorexia, it's infinetly better to be slightly overweight then seriously underweight. But we're not talking about slightly obessed people, we're talking about moriable obese people. The right woman in the video wasn't moriable obese, but the left one seemed to be aproaching it.
I myself don't really fear second hand smoking. I realize it poses a health risk, but then you probably need to spend an hour a day in a small room with a chainsmoker. Not a likely senario.
I admit that I'm a bit creeped out if a see an moriable obese person in bathing clothes at the beach. That's how far my problem with fat people specifically go. I do however believe that it's ones responsiblilty to put a serious effort to stay heatlhy.
Maybe our definition of discrimation is different. I don't mean it's okay to bash them, I do think it's okay to discus things like fat-tax or things like that.

Fat tax? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Let's make a gay-tax, since gay people don't have children! Let's make a bald-tax, because bald people don't get haircuts and halt the hairdressing industry!

Morbidly... not moriable...

And I found out your issue with fat people - not because unhealthy, not because bad. Because you don't like them. And that's fine. Just don't fucking dare thinking about laws to make people you dislike get worse treatment.

You don't fear second hand smoking? You do realize that smoke from cigarettes has 10 times more carcinogens than the one people smoke normally?

Okay I've about had it with being accused of hating. You want to believe I'm a homophobe? I'm actually bisexual, but go ahead. You want to believe I'm a racist? My Idol and one of my few hopes for humanity was Ghandi, and the most inspiring person I've ever personally met was an African man, but go ahead. You want to believe I hate fat people? My ex and first girlfriend I'm still pretty crazy about is plump, and one of my best friend is fat, but go ahead.
Do you even realize that we in fact do have taxes for other dangerous livestyles? acoholisme is discouraged by having high taxes on acohol, smoking is discouraged by having high taxes on tabaco, etc etc, but of course it's a big no no to raise taxes on junkfood to discourage obesity.
Also about the 10 times more carconogens from second hand-smoking, just the most basic understanding of physics will tell you that is bullcrap. Unless you're in a small poorly ventilated room, second hand smoking won't do you much harm. Second hand smoking was an issue for office workers and the like, but the new laws have fixed it.
And about my spelling: F*ck you, English isn't my native language, I thaught myself, and I'm dyslectic.

I don't give a damn if your spelling is terrible, English isn't my native language either, use a damn spell checker if you are too lazy. You might sound a little more convincing. And using dyslectic as a shield against criticism? Damn, I'm arguing with a child again... because no adult would use such a poor excuse in this day and age when typing on a PC...

Alcoholism and smoking causes actual damage to people around. You can't cause an accident because you are too fat, and your car will crash into a group of schoolchildren. You can't give cancer to your family if you smoke for 10 years straight pack a day. New laws don't "fix" second hand smoking, it still exists in private homes. Unless you think children don't deserve protection from carcinogenic substances.

I didn't say you are homophobic or racist, I just highlighted the stupidity of your anti-fat tax argument. Don't respond, tired of arguing with the average person... reminds me why I stopped visiting Escapist for so long...

And being fat doesn't harm your family? A child doesn't have a higher risk to have health problems if his/her mother was obese during pregnancy? And no you didn't call me homophobic or racist, but you certainly did imply I was. Also you did flat out claimed I hate fat people. I'm sure you remember that, and I'm sure you consiously left that out in this comment.
Don't talk the average person down, there is nothing wrong with being average, and don't act high and mighty. I freely admit I wasn't debating properly, but neither were you. If you stopped visting the escapist to flee from the average person, then go and ahead and hide in your ivory tower believing you're better then everybody who doesn't agree with you.
Feel free to respond, I don't mind arguing, and perhaps you'll reread your comments and see that you kind of have been acting like a jerk.

 

[loc978]

I say the social stigma is deserved in most cases, and should be treated similarly to being a junkie of any other kind. I also say we should help people who are willing to be helped, and not charge them for it... but I guess I'm just a pinko-liberal bastard.

Also, the BMI standard for obese? Totally arbitrary and ridiculous. At my fittest with a body fat around 10%, I was obese according to BMI. Now, I consider myself slightly out-of-shape with a little bit of a belly, and BMI tells me I'm healthy. Height/weight is a terrible indicator of health, and goes to show just how impersonal and ineffective health care is in the US.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

And being fat doesn't harm your family?

No. How do you figure?

A child doesn't have a higher risk to have health problems if his/her mother was obese during pregnancy?

Just by virtue of Mom being fat? No.

Sure, if she lived on junk food (and we all know mainstream society automatically conflates fatness with living on junk food), that could be a risk factor. And fat women are more likely to diet, which could be a risk factor.

But not just by virtue of Mom being fat.

 

[rutger5000]

And being fat doesn't harm your family?

No. How do you figure?

A child doesn't have a higher risk to have health problems if his/her mother was obese during pregnancy?

Just by virtue of Mom being fat? No.

Sure, if she lived on junk food (and we all know mainstream society automatically conflates fatness with living on junk food), that could be a risk factor. And fat women are more likely to diet, which could be a risk factor.

But not just by virtue of Mom being fat.

First there is a difference between being fat and being obese. What most people consider to be fat, is usually not unhealthy. Obesity is a different story.
Well I always believed that children have a higher chance to suffer from diabetes, if their mother was obese during pregnancy. But too be honest I've never read a scientific report backing up that claim. So I could be wrong about that.
Theoretically being fat wouldn't be harmfull for your family, but in practice we see that children of obese people are more likely to obese themselves and suffer from diabetes. But here I must admit that there is only a correlation between obese parents and unhealthy children, not a causation. So one could say this argument holds little merrit.
Being fat can very well be caused by genetics, and I wouldn't link it to junk food. Being obese is a different story. Of course there are many exceptions, but in most cases I suspect junk food to be the cause of obesity. I have no scientific data to back this up, but still I find it hard to believe that healthy diet won't be effective against obesity in most cases.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

First there is a difference between being fat and being obese. What most people consider to be fat, is usually not unhealthy. Obesity is a different story.

Well, here's the problem with that: While when you hear the word "obesity," the image that springs to mind is probably the "fat candid shots" that you see on the news? The actual clinical definition is "a body-mass index over 30."

In other words, a six-foot guy is considered "obese" if he weighs 220# or more. Nothing whatsoever to do with muscle tone, cardiovascular health, or even if he's actually fat.

Well I always believed that children have a higher chance to suffer from diabetes, if their mother was obese during pregnancy. But too be honest I've never read a scientific report backing up that claim. So I could be wrong about that.
Theoretically being fat wouldn't be harmfull for your family, but in practice we see that children of obese people are more likely to obese themselves and suffer from diabetes. But here I must admit that there is only a correlation between obese parents and unhealthy children, not a causation. So one could say this argument holds little merrit.

There are correlations, true. But you'll find that the negative effects of dieting are usually either acknowledged and then "mysteriously" dismissed as irrelevant, or left out of the equation altogether. And that almost no one talks about just trying to adopt a healthier lifestyle without worrying about your weight.

Being fat can very well be caused by genetics, and I wouldn't link it to junk food. Being obese is a different story. Of course there are many exceptions, but in most cases I suspect junk food to be the cause of obesity. I have no scientific data to back this up, but still I find it hard to believe that healthy diet won't be effective against obesity in most cases.

And that would be all well and good...if we weren't talking about a "condition" that's defined entirely by a height-to-weight ratio.

 

[Jeremy Meadows]

There is fat, then there is obese. There is a coworker of mine who is isn't even in his twenties who is almost 7 tall. But he's also like twice my weight so he's fat. But the person riding around in our store carts whos sides flaps are past the seat of the chairs?....MAN THE HARPOONS! I am very uncaring for the obese (actually obese, not the stupid medical standerds) or morbidlly obese. No body gets that big if they are even trying to live right.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

There is fat, then there is obese. There is a coworker of mine who is isn't even in his twenties who is almost 7 tall. But he's also like twice my weight so he's fat. But the person riding around in our store carts whos sides flaps are past the seat of the chairs?....MAN THE HARPOONS!

Except the "stupid medical standards" are the definition of the term. You may draw a distinction; the medical industry doesn't.

I am very uncaring for the obese (actually obese, not the stupid medical standerds) or morbidlly obese. No body gets that big if they are even trying to live right.

Nonsense. Something could have gone awry with their body chemistry.

Also, have you ever considered that some of the people using carts might have some disability that not only would have required the use of the cart even if they weren't fat, but resulted in the weight gain to begin with?

Then again, the "man the harpoons" comment suggests that you wouldn't care one way or the other.