I'm sorry to ruffle your literary feathers, but A Song of Fire and Ice just beats The Wheel of Time at its own game. It's too bad too, because Jordan's world is beautifully crafted and excellently written. The guy just didn't know how or when to pull the trigger. Martin's series is just as complex and sweeping, but the difference is he's not afraid to take chances and shake things up. Martin's books will consistently surprise, delight, and horrify the reader. This is an argument I've had before and I will have again.NeutralDrow said:It was fine when you were just saying why you, personally, dropped the series.Dirty Apple said:I've said it before and I'll say it again: forget Jordan, and move onto Martin. You'll love it, I will stake my geek guarantee on it.
But these, sir, are fightin' words. I may have to respond with balefire.
If you made an actual argument, I'd probably like to. As is, it looks like you're saying "this story is well written and has a fascinating world, but it's boring and predictable, and nothing of import happens."Dirty Apple said:I'm sorry to ruffle your literary feathers, but A Song of Fire and Ice just beats The Wheel of Time at its own game. It's too bad too, because Jordan's world is beautifully crafted and excellently written. The guy just didn't know how or when to pull the trigger. Martin's series is just as complex and sweeping, but the difference is he's not afraid to take chances and shake things up. Martin's books will consistently surprise, delight, and horrify the reader. This is an argument I've had before and I will have again.NeutralDrow said:It was fine when you were just saying why you, personally, dropped the series.Dirty Apple said:I've said it before and I'll say it again: forget Jordan, and move onto Martin. You'll love it, I will stake my geek guarantee on it.
But these, sir, are fightin' words. I may have to respond with balefire.
Oh, trust me, I'm not ruling out the snide remarks. After all, you basically went past "I don't like this work, I like this other one better" to "this work sucks and if you like it, you have terrible taste, this other one is much better."As a side note, thank you for not outright flamming me. It's nice to find a poster on the web who doesn't resort to name calling and snide remarks the second they encounter an opposing opinion.
Rand is the magical equivalent of an incredibly lucky faceroller.BrynThomas said:Great news, I hope there's an innovative channeling system rather than simple set spells.
You'd have the five power, fire, water, earth, wind and spirit. Each signed a number on the keyboard (for pc). Then mix them in certain combinations you'd need to learn.
For example one fire could make a fireball, two fires a sheet of flame. Two winds and a fire would might create lighting.
A complex spell like compulsion or healing would take a combination of say seven elements in a certain order. Something like the ridiculously powerful killing spell rand makes in TSR to cleanse the stone, might take 15.
If you don't get the complex spells right they might fizzle out or explode dangerously.
Don't know it'd be the same devs, plus it was an FPS. Still, high hopes here.ethaninja said:Well the first Wheel of Time game was pretty awesome. This should be good.
sigh And there it is. Your well thought out rebuttle has completely changed everything I've ever thought about the Wheel of Time. Congratulations.NeutralDrow said:If you made an actual argument, I'd probably like to. As is, it looks like you're saying "this story is well written and has a fascinating world, but it's boring and predictable, and nothing of import happens."Dirty Apple said:I'm sorry to ruffle your literary feathers, but A Song of Fire and Ice just beats The Wheel of Time at its own game. It's too bad too, because Jordan's world is beautifully crafted and excellently written. The guy just didn't know how or when to pull the trigger. Martin's series is just as complex and sweeping, but the difference is he's not afraid to take chances and shake things up. Martin's books will consistently surprise, delight, and horrify the reader. This is an argument I've had before and I will have again.NeutralDrow said:It was fine when you were just saying why you, personally, dropped the series.Dirty Apple said:I've said it before and I'll say it again: forget Jordan, and move onto Martin. You'll love it, I will stake my geek guarantee on it.
But these, sir, are fightin' words. I may have to respond with balefire.
Granted, when I spent ten minutes trying to figure out how that made any sense at all, I remembered that you didn't even finish Lord of Chaos (you wanna talk about surprise and horror), let alone got to the other truly gigantic world-shaking events of Winter's Heart, Knife of Dreams, and The Gathering Storm.
Oh, trust me, I'm not ruling out the snide remarks. After all, you basically went past "I don't like this work, I like this other one better" to "this work sucks and if you like it, you have terrible taste, this other one is much better."As a side note, thank you for not outright flamming me. It's nice to find a poster on the web who doesn't resort to name calling and snide remarks the second they encounter an opposing opinion.
Seriously? Wow, I wasn't even trying to do that. I was just calling you out for phrasing your previous opinion with veiled insults like a complete jerk.Dirty Apple said:sigh And there it is. Your well thought out rebuttle has completely changed everything I've ever thought about the Wheel of Time. Congratulations.
It's not JUST Faile, it's ALL of them with the possible exception of Min and MAYBE the blonde princess (they both have their shrew moments but not to the extent of the others). Even the bloody QUEEN is like that.NeutralDrow said:Because there's more female characters than Faile.TsunamiWombat said:And women get to be bitchy charictures of actual people that are full of malice and hate until they finally provoke their otherwise goodnatured boyfreinds into getting angry and fucking the shrew out of them BADOOSH RIMSHOT but seriously, Jordan had some serious issues with women, I dunno how women can read those books and not be offended.hURR dURR dERP said:Only if you're a woman.Greg Tito said:I better stop or I'll start pulling my braids and scowling.
Men get to be totally oblivious and wonder why everyone else is better with girls than they are.
Wait, you're complaining about the female characters...except for Elayne? That's something I haven't heard before; she's usually the first person on peoples' lips alongside Nynaeve and Faile.TsunamiWombat said:It's not JUST Faile, it's ALL of them with the possible exception of the blonde princess. Even the bloody QUEEN is like that.NeutralDrow said:Because there's more female characters than Faile.TsunamiWombat said:And women get to be bitchy charictures of actual people that are full of malice and hate until they finally provoke their otherwise goodnatured boyfreinds into getting angry and fucking the shrew out of them BADOOSH RIMSHOT but seriously, Jordan had some serious issues with women, I dunno how women can read those books and not be offended.hURR dURR dERP said:Only if you're a woman.Greg Tito said:I better stop or I'll start pulling my braids and scowling.
Men get to be totally oblivious and wonder why everyone else is better with girls than they are.
Aviendha is a kuudere more than anything, and frustrated that the guy she loves is making absolutely no progress towards understanding her culture, and still reeling from the sudden transition between life roles (warrior to wisewoman). Faile's entire culture acts like that, men and women (seriously, have you seen their queen?). Morgase went from <color=white>queen of an incredibly powerful country to vagabond overnight, and went through all that crap with the Whitecloaks. Nynaeve is...well, Nynaeve, but she really shapes up by Knife of Dreams and The Gathering Storm.Aviendah is the Tsundere until Rand bangs her. Faile is the Tsundere until Perrin smacks a ***** up. The QUEEN is the Tsundere until she gets sexy time with her bodyguard (I assume, didn't finish that book). Nynaeve is the Tsundere until she gets sexy time and REMAINS THE TSUNDERE AFTERWARDS.
Tsun Tsun Tsun Tsun Tsun SHREW. If the women in the book aren't being bitchy they're being manipulative, and talking about how they need to control all the men to protect them from themselves. Meanwhile, the male characters are all emotionally inept (admittedly probably true to life) milque toast who are oblivious to whats going on unless they're GRRR Havin the Angst in which case their cool factor gets taken to 11 and suddenly they're undefeatible. Double this for Rand - which I don't mind, I rather LIKE the Hulk effect, but when you use the same 'Rand gets angry and pwns some bitches' device at the end of every book it gets old.
I loved the world, I loved some of the characers, I liked the story, but it just gets bogged down in Jordans gender politics, it's like the guy thinks he's still writing Conan.
I forgot about Bridgitte. She's cool. An exception to the angry and manipulative women that populate the rest of the series. I guess dying mellows you out. I so wanted her to hook up with snarky wisecracker reincarnated guy (forgot his name, havn't read the books in years)NeutralDrow said:Wait, you're complaining about the female characters...except for Elayne? That's something I haven't heard before; she's usually the first person on peoples' lips alongside Nynaeve and Faile.TsunamiWombat said:It's not JUST Faile, it's ALL of them with the possible exception of the blonde princess. Even the bloody QUEEN is like that.NeutralDrow said:Because there's more female characters than Faile.TsunamiWombat said:And women get to be bitchy charictures of actual people that are full of malice and hate until they finally provoke their otherwise goodnatured boyfreinds into getting angry and fucking the shrew out of them BADOOSH RIMSHOT but seriously, Jordan had some serious issues with women, I dunno how women can read those books and not be offended.hURR dURR dERP said:Only if you're a woman.Greg Tito said:I better stop or I'll start pulling my braids and scowling.
Men get to be totally oblivious and wonder why everyone else is better with girls than they are.
Besides, your description was seriously only Faile (and if you switch the genders, you might get Queen Tylin and Lanfear). I was pointing out that there's also Aviendha, Min, Moiraine, Birgitte, Siuan, Leane, Cadsuane (...bad example), Verin, the Wise Ones (except Sevanna and Therava, who are pure evil), the Sea Folk (...another bad example), the recovered sul'dam, etc.
Gah, that's the problem with editing. No notification that it's happened, on either side.TsunamiWombat said:I forgot about Bridgitte. She's cool. An exception to the angry and manipulative women that populate the rest of the series. I guess dying mellows you out. I so wanted her to hook up with snarky wisecracker reincarnated guy (forgot his name, havn't read the books in years)NeutralDrow said:Wait, you're complaining about the female characters...except for Elayne? That's something I haven't heard before; she's usually the first person on peoples' lips alongside Nynaeve and Faile.TsunamiWombat said:It's not JUST Faile, it's ALL of them with the possible exception of the blonde princess. Even the bloody QUEEN is like that.NeutralDrow said:Because there's more female characters than Faile.TsunamiWombat said:And women get to be bitchy charictures of actual people that are full of malice and hate until they finally provoke their otherwise goodnatured boyfreinds into getting angry and fucking the shrew out of them BADOOSH RIMSHOT but seriously, Jordan had some serious issues with women, I dunno how women can read those books and not be offended.hURR dURR dERP said:Only if you're a woman.Greg Tito said:I better stop or I'll start pulling my braids and scowling.
Men get to be totally oblivious and wonder why everyone else is better with girls than they are.
Besides, your description was seriously only Faile (and if you switch the genders, you might get Queen Tylin and Lanfear). I was pointing out that there's also Aviendha, Min, Moiraine, Birgitte, Siuan, Leane, Cadsuane (...bad example), Verin, the Wise Ones (except Sevanna and Therava, who are pure evil), the Sea Folk (...another bad example), the recovered sul'dam, etc.
The Seafolk are cool too.
I guess Jordans message is if you live on the mainland/modern times, your an idiot?
A full half of the female characters being shrews is still a remarkible amount.
The "hasn't gone anywhere" thing works well for it actually, for an ongoing series of games.Veishan said:Yup. Like Halo, for instance.Commander Breetai said:Great. Because there's a huge niche market for games that have a billion sequels and go absofuckinglutely nowhere.
You only made it halfway through the first book..?Karlaxx said:....WhooooAAAA.....
Wheel of Time Game... boggles my mind. I only made it halfway through the first book, but I would certainly play this.
As long as I get to rip the Whitecloaks a new one.