On Dongles

[wulf3n]

I've looked at this during some of my education as well as having seen it 'in the wild' as it were. In general clubs tend to do this through drinks promotions, free door entry, even free mini bus services arranged to increase the amount of females in clubs.

I understand it for normal clubs, but not for after parties.

Sure the parties are supposed to be fun, but this implies that for it to be fun you need to have attractive woman to talk to.

 

[wulf3n]

Because appeal to false authority really has no place in civil discourse.

Oh, so now I appealed to false authority?

You said

Dude, no one gives a shit about them being eye candy.

I pointed out those who did give a shit about the "eye candy"

Except the people that were offended enough to notify Brenda Romero, and Brenda Romero who felt she couldn't work for an organisation that would approve such an event.

Where was the appeal, and who was the Authority?

Except that they weren't there to make up some kind of gender difference: They were there as spokes models. They were there to pimp out a specific product or service.

Source? what were they trying to sell? You can't just make stuff up.

 

[Weaver]

You know, as an American I might get called a prude for this, but there's a time and a place for stuff like this. This wasn't one of them.

Having dated a German, they really like to talk it up about how sexually expressive and free Europe and the like is. I'd say it is true, but not nearly to the extent they seem to have in their heads. I'd like someone to tell me how "Turn me on, Dammit! (origina: Få meg på, for faen)" is so much more free in its sex than something like American Pie. Arguably American Pie treats it's sexuality with "humor" (not that I found it that funny), but at least it was a better movie in my opinion.

In fact, visiting Germany I was expecting whores to be pouring out of brothels and naked men and women to be banging on giant posters in the streets, but none of this was the case. In fact, I'd say most people were dressed more conservatively than the average high school student at amall here. Which is good, as they seemed to actually have a sense of style

You have to visit Munich. Here we have old men riding naked on a three seater bicycle in the park.

OT: This is either about the inudstry meeting with the "strippers" or is about the chauvinism in the industry as a whole. I doubt it was abotu the "Dongle" incident but I can see why they chose it.

As for that little incident I think that women was way out of line with reporting it. She got a guy fired because he was telling a in no way misogynist but sexually charge joke to his friend and coworker beside him.

I DID visit Munich, I didn't see anything like that . Oh well lol, guess I had to be there on the weekend . Maybe next time I'll see something like that!

For the record, random full body nudity is certainly more sexually free than here in Canada (do keep in mind it's below 10 here like 8 months of the year). Though at least it's legal for women to go topless. Though you're not allowed to be nude fully in public, we do have nude beaches. Why you would want to be nude on our beaches is beyond me (our sand is coarse and grainy in Ontario), but people do it.

I'd love for us to open up more over here. I think a lot of the youth are far more open sexually so hopefully that signifies a change of tings to come. Personally, I've been a long time 4channer and have seen enough things in hentai that nothing really phases me anymore. I think when you've reached a point in life where you can shrug off shittingdicknipples with a "meh" that says something. What, I don't know... but something

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Personally, I've been a long time 4channer and have seen enough things in hentai that nothing really phases me anymore. I think when you've reached a point in life where you can shrug off shittingdicknipples with a "meh" that says something. What, I don't know... but something

i do concur with your post, i'd rather have things more out there and discussed rather than have it be "thou shallt not speak of it, maybe if we don't speak of it they won't know it exists!" mentality of sexualism and whatnot. (speaking for US here, obviously you are canadian)

 

[Something Amyss]

That last panel is one I never thought I'd see.

I think Cory just wanted an excuse to draw lady butts. haha XD

It's a gaming site! What more excuse does he need?

 

[wulf3n]

Oh, so now I appealed to false authority?

Dude, take a second, step away from your computer, take a couple of dep breaths. Now before coming back to your computer take off your white knight armour & try reading what people are actually writing.

No one said you made an appeal to motive, in exactly the same way that no one called you facetious as you announced above.

You claim I'm facetious

Go back & reread the statement as its written, not as you think its written.

\

I'll just leave these here shall I.

But you know what, when people come along screaming sexism about something thats not sexism & making hyperbolic bullshit statements where they have to lie by ommission to try to make a point, that pissess me off even more.

I"m talking about you specifically.

 

[wulf3n]

Right & in either one of those staments where do i call you facetious, or state that you've made an appeal to motive?

So facetious wasn't the best word to choose, you certainly accused me of enough, that I should be forgiven for adding one of my own.

Mate, you really need to log off & go do something else for a little while, because your ego is way to over invested in this discussion. You are wrong,

AHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHA, the irony is delicious.

an no amount of weaselly rhetorics is going to make you less wrong.

Oh, so now I use weaselly rhetorics to. Anything else you want to make up?

But for every disingenious attempt you make,

Ah, there we go.

you lower yourself & when people point out your actions, our ego takes another hit & you have to lower yourself even further to try to defend the new silly statements you've made.

Our ego? that's weird. New silly statements? I've only made One silly statement.

For your own sake i suggest you log off, step away from the computer & go do something else for a while... For the sake of your own state of mind.

It's not my state of mind you should be concerned about.

 

[wulf3n]

cherry picked statements... trying to give new definitions to words... making false equivications.

Ah, more accusations. Isn't that nice

You've obviously become over invested in this coversation, to the point where you would argue that the earth is flat & the centre of the solar system, if you thought it would win you your main point.

This is the internet, you don't win.

Again i suggest you take some time to log off, maybe go outside for a couple of minutes, go make a sandwhich, take a couple of deep breathes & relax before coming back to this discussion.

HAHAH this hasn't been a "discussion" since post #160.

 

[Karadalis]

Mathew.. wulfen.. you guys should have an ERB... thought i think mathew would win because he actually has arguments instead of "HAHAHA"..

As for the event... no strippers, not during the conference, no one was forced to go there, no one was forced to dance.

And seriously? I see more skin when walking around the city at summertime. Those outfits showed some tights and bellies and people scream "SEXISM"?

*facepalm*

You know... heres some food for thought:

If the demographic would be mostly females attending those parties... the sponsors of said parties would hire beefcakes that dance for the ladies.

Because that is how those marketing people work: They dont give a shit about sexism(as in there is no intend to surpress any gender for being said gender, you know.. sexism?).. they pander to the majority of the demographic. This isnt sexism.. this is cold calculation.

The real problem is not some skin showing dancers in an after conference private rave.

It is making the developer job as a whole more accessible to women. I highly doubt that any female that wants to become a developer bases her decision to become on on the eye candy that might be around on some after conference rave party.

There are more serious problems in the industry then that... and none of them have to do with dancers.

 

[Karadalis]

The real problem is not some skin showing dancers in an after conference private rave.

It is making the developer job as a whole more accessible to women. I highly doubt that any female that wants to become a developer bases her decision to become on on the eye candy that might be around on some after conference rave party.

There are more serious problems in the industry then that... and none of them have to do with dancers.

But are there really these huge problems in the industry? I mean we all hear about how sexist the industry is, but when called upon to give examples the majority of examples come from people outside the industry talking about how it must be sexist because there are more men then women in the industry.

Sure there are many issues with the industry, from draconian license agreements, crippling always on DRM, microtransaction systems killing particular MMO's, Game designers releasing games incompleted... But by and large i'd say that there is not nearly the amount of sexism in the games industry as everyone pretends is there... Its just that gaming, much like comics, is an easy target, since its demographic is mainly male... An if its mainly male, well then obviously its mainly male due to sexism & requires fixing so those nasty men can no longer keep poor old victimised women out.

If i were to point to the biggest issue with the industry at the moment, i would actually point to the walking abortion that is the gaming press.

To be honest.. i dont know if there are huge problems in the industry, im not an insider.

I can only refer to what some of the females in the industry say.

For all i know the job of a dev itselfe could not be that interesting to females but alas i am not one so i cant say either. All i know is that alot of women lately have made alot of noise about sexism in the industry so maybe theres some truth to that.

What i actually wanted to say is: That i am pretty sure that some skin on a private non mandatory rave party would be the least of any problems in the dev-industry

 

[Vault Citizen]

It would have been helpful if the strip had one of one mini blog posts at the bottom to discuss it, did this actually happen or is it the sort of thing that might happen?

 

[Knight Templar]

While i can't speak for the industry, i can speak for tertiary education in Australia. We have a college called Qantum, its specifically an industry college for game designers, media experts & animation experts. An i can tell you now that women are not only in the minority, they are in the extreme minority.

While that may be true at Qantum, it is not true of every institution.

I really wonder where these industry ready women who are being excluded are studying, because its certainly not in the class room.

One doesn't need to be taught at a institution specifically focused on videogames to be able to be part of the industry.
Honestly thats more than a little absurd for you to say, particularly given your sample size is one campus.

 

[Requia]

As for that little incident I think that women was way out of line with reporting it. She got a guy fired because he was telling a in no way misogynist but sexually charge joke to his friend and coworker beside him.

She wasn't out of line, I mean she's hypocritical and an attention seeker for doing it when she makes the same kind of jokes, but all she did was ***** about it on twitter. The guys bosses were way the fuck out of line for firing him, and the people who attacked her work because of it were way out of line. (I'm not sure about her company, I haven't quite figured out the protocol for how to handle an employee that pisses off Anonymous).

 

[LordFish]

I'm sorry, I don't like to post wholly negative comments but... This comic has NEVER made me laugh, or chuckle, or think deeply about a subject. It's just, THERE.

At best it's bland and forgettable and at worse it's reactionary and offensive, designed to create controversy and fuel flame wars.

On the plus side the art is always of a high standard, just the writing... oh god the writing.

 

[xorinite]

I understand it for normal clubs, but not for after parties.

Sure the parties are supposed to be fun, but this implies that for it to be fun you need to have attractive woman to talk to.

Which do you prefer night club raves where everyone is of the same ethnicity, country of origin, culture, sex, sexuality, or something where there are a more diverse range of people?

I'm fairly certain that meeting people you are attracted to is part of the point of attending a rave, for everyone who attends those things. Is it wrong of people to want that?

Except that they weren't there to make up some kind of gender difference: They were there as spokes models. They were there to pimp out a specific product or service.

This is not something new, or unique: Clubs do this all the time, when a company hires the space, does the promotion & then hires spokes models (male & female depending on the expected demographic) to pimp out a product or service: Its part of the promotion.

I'm not sure what your background is, but this is pretty workaday stuff guys.

Thanks for the correction, accuracy matters.

Where are you getting your information?
You appear to be better informed than I am about this, and well I'd like to have better knowledge of something I am discussing.

My background is not in organising clubbing events or similar, so it might be workaday stuff for someone else but its not for me.

I see what you are saying this was some kind of sales promotion, I should have known better than to think the after party would just be for entertainment. Its like TV, you think its for entertainment but in reality its trying to get you to pay attention to advertisements.

 

[ellieallegro]

As someone with event planning experience this is a huge blunder on behalf of the vendor. Yes, it is workaday stuff to hire entertainment but part of the responsibility of the party/event planner is to be tapped in to the audience and the market of the client. Whoever organized and hired the entertainment as well as not giving guidelines to the DJ failed miserably at their job.

A few key points:
It doesn't matter how any entertainment is dressed: Bunny ears and gas masks, stripper g-strings and heels, shirtless male models with only a bowtie, or clothed head to toe in a suit or potato sack. The only thing that matters is that they are getting paid to stand there, dance and look pretty/handsome/desirable. That is what makes it sexist [this works for both genders] and is inappropriate.

Now if both genders were represented and they were serving drinks and providing some entertainment as a service in which they just happened to be dressed up as game characters in bunny ears and gas masks then it would be ok. Why? They are getting paid as a server/entertainer not as a model/sex object. Yes, this is semantics but anyone not bright enough to know the difference shouldn't be event planning in the first place.

To sum up: Scantily clad men or women being paid to model or jiggle around: Not ok. Same women or men serving drinks or providing entertainment like fire-breathing who just happen to be scantily clad: Ok.

 

[rbstewart7263]

For those who don't know, this is about that conference recently (think it was an IGDA conference) that brought out strippers in what should have been a professional environment for no apparent reason other than to have strippers.

Is this another prude USA thing? as in the UK our shopping centre's (malls to you I believe) have strippers during the day all the time and people of all ages just accept it I've never seen women when with there children show any offence anyway.

It is a prude usa thing we confuse "respect" and "rights" with "cover the lady bits". Like over here those dancers are seen as a barrier for women to come into our hobby and make games.

I guess most of our lady developers will be from the Uk. shrug lol

 

[SidheKnight]

-Snip-

I just used the word sexism in order to not use the word discrimination 2 times in a row. Probably a poor choice of words. I'd have gone with "unintentionally sexist behaviour"

I don't think that the people who hired the dancers did it with bad intent at all. Unfortunately one can offend some people unintentionally some times.

I didn't know the dance event was something separate from the conference when I read about it, so I don't think it was that bad. Just that by only catering to one gender the other one may feel ignored and take it personally, even though it was just an honest mistake and not a deliverate action to marginalize one gender.

As for hiring male strippers being seen as a blatantly PC statement.. well of course it would be seen that way, because that's exactly what it is, but there's nothing wrong with that. It'd just be a recognition of the fact that game developement is not a "boys only" club anymore.

 

[wulf3n]

Which do you prefer night club raves where everyone is of the same ethnicity, country of origin, culture, sex, sexuality, or something where there are a more diverse range of people?

I'm fairly certain that meeting people you are attracted to is part of the point of attending a rave, for everyone who attends those things. Is it wrong of people to want that?

We've gone back in circles again. This isn't about a generic rave/party, this is about an event organised by industry professionals for industry professionals.

Except that they weren't there to make up some kind of gender difference: They were there as spokes models. They were there to pimp out a specific product or service.

This is not something new, or unique: Clubs do this all the time, when a company hires the space, does the promotion & then hires spokes models (male & female depending on the expected demographic) to pimp out a product or service: Its part of the promotion.

I'm not sure what your background is, but this is pretty workaday stuff guys.

Thanks for the correction, accuracy matters.

Where are you getting your information?
You appear to be better informed than I am about this, and well I'd like to have better knowledge of something I am discussing.

My background is not in organising clubbing events or similar, so it might be workaday stuff for someone else but its not for me.

I see what you are saying this was some kind of sales promotion, I should have known better than to think the after party would just be for entertainment. Its like TV, you think its for entertainment but in reality its trying to get you to pay attention to advertisements.

Don't believe anything something tells you as "fact" when they can't provide a source.

e.g.

Source [http://yetizen.com/2013/03/30/official-statement-by-the-yetizen-ceo-on-the-yetizen-igda-gdc-party/2/]
"Fact 5: YetiZen did not hire dancers. We hired avid gamers, who happened to be models, to discuss gaming with the invited guests."

 

[wulf3n]

Mathew.. wulfen.. you guys should have an ERB... thought i think mathew would win because he actually has arguments instead of "HAHAHA"..

Oh, I had an argument, but after 2 pages of strawmen,false accusations, and willful ignorance, I decided to treat the "discussion" like the joke it was.