On Gaymers and Cons
- Thread starter The Wooster
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Ugh Really? Have you all ever played any game ... ever. I'm gay and even just walked around a convention, the number of times you hear the Fa* bomb used as an insult is staggering. Or hoards of teeny boppers walking around saying how gay something is when they don't like it makes you pretty damn uncomfortable. These events aren't openly homophobic, and in reality many of the paying saying things like the Fa* bomb and or any other gay derogatory term don't understand that it's not OK to so.
But there's a passive homophobia there -- using a term like calling someone a fa* (if you didn't notice, I hate that word above all others), you imply that there's something wrong with being gay, that makes that person less than human. I won't get into all the rhetorical happenings here and logical steps to get there, but the implication is there.
To be able to go to an event about gaming -- a past time I love, that I dedicate almost all of my free time too, and not have to worry about feeling put down, belittled or anything just from overhearing conversation about people who 1) don't know any better or 2) Don't care about how the words they use impact those around them, is awesome. That's why a gaymercon is important. You don't have to want to go to it to make it a valuable, and needed event.
But there's a passive homophobia there -- using a term like calling someone a fa* (if you didn't notice, I hate that word above all others), you imply that there's something wrong with being gay, that makes that person less than human. I won't get into all the rhetorical happenings here and logical steps to get there, but the implication is there.
To be able to go to an event about gaming -- a past time I love, that I dedicate almost all of my free time too, and not have to worry about feeling put down, belittled or anything just from overhearing conversation about people who 1) don't know any better or 2) Don't care about how the words they use impact those around them, is awesome. That's why a gaymercon is important. You don't have to want to go to it to make it a valuable, and needed event.
1: Personal insults on the forum will get you warned and/or banned.Arakasi said:
2: You might want to reread what I wrote. There's two kinds people here; Those who are asking genuine questions, and those are asking in bad-faith. The comic is aimed at the latter group.
Well, isn't the entire point of conventions to go to a big hall filled to the brim with like-minded people? If the subgroup of asexual gamers who like to cosplay koopa's suddenly becomes large enough to feasibly fill a convention hall, then good on them, they'll have lots in common to yap about.
Still would say today's strip is a bit douchy though, even if it clarifies there is a massive group it's aimed at, yet shouldn't be hitting.
Still would say today's strip is a bit douchy though, even if it clarifies there is a massive group it's aimed at, yet shouldn't be hitting.
Dear Mr Carter I would like it if you would NOT use such comments such as the following "steeped in that luxurious ignorance particular to white teenagers".Grey Carter said:
As I am a white teenager myself I feel offended that you would use a negative stereotype to insult us while then trying to breed understanding and tolerance as you are undermining your own message by doing so (insulting said people who ask said questions when you your self said it is simply because they are ignorant) also does not help your cause and simply anger people.
Your's truly the wonderful all knowing and kind leader of the human race known as knight steel ^_^
The thing about prejudices is that they tend to be invisible (or at least appear significantly more minor) when you are not among the group the prejudice is against. Bits of Homophobia which are obvious to gays (As mentioned above, the prevalence of the word 'fag' as a generic slur) are not always obvious to straight gamers who just don't consider such things.Hoplon said:
By asking that question, it becomes possible to progress from 'Is there a problem with gaming culture?' to 'What, specifically, is wrong with gaming culture?' It's impossible to fix a problem if a large portion of the people responsible are unaware (Or simply are unaware that people actually care) that there's a problem.
A gaming convention aimed specifically at gay people seems as pointless as one aimed at, I dunno, red-heads. Neither element is any more or less relevant to gaming in general. I don't see why people feel the need to segregate themselves toward or away from any one group.
If anything, I'd actually be quite sad if gay people shunned (see, how do I term "normal" conventions now? "straight" conventions? ridiculous) run-of-the-mill conventions in favour of their own. Just one less group within what is normally a very inclusive whole.
The last convention I attended (it was a comic / anime one, not a gamer con) had a brilliant stand with a huge rainbow flag draped over it and the proprietor was a splendidly camp and enthusiastic fellow. He sold yaoi, it transpired. Lots and lots of yaoi. I had a great time chatting to him (and embarrassing my female friend - who had not heard of yaoi - by asking the guy for increasingly hardcore material for her as "the regular stuff isn't strong enough [for her]" and he laughed along and kept digging out more of his favourite stuff as her face got redder and redder).
If these events become segregated, the just won't be as good as they are now.
So, this is me saying: "Please LGBT people, don't leave us and don't invent a need that (in my experience) doesn't exist - we love sharing these big spaces for conventions with you.".
If anything, I'd actually be quite sad if gay people shunned (see, how do I term "normal" conventions now? "straight" conventions? ridiculous) run-of-the-mill conventions in favour of their own. Just one less group within what is normally a very inclusive whole.
The last convention I attended (it was a comic / anime one, not a gamer con) had a brilliant stand with a huge rainbow flag draped over it and the proprietor was a splendidly camp and enthusiastic fellow. He sold yaoi, it transpired. Lots and lots of yaoi. I had a great time chatting to him (and embarrassing my female friend - who had not heard of yaoi - by asking the guy for increasingly hardcore material for her as "the regular stuff isn't strong enough [for her]" and he laughed along and kept digging out more of his favourite stuff as her face got redder and redder).
If these events become segregated, the just won't be as good as they are now.
So, this is me saying: "Please LGBT people, don't leave us and don't invent a need that (in my experience) doesn't exist - we love sharing these big spaces for conventions with you.".
1. I felt as if you were attacking my viewpoint by calling me a dick, and so I replied in kind. If that gets me a warning, so be it.Grey Carter said:
2. Alright, I did misread that, apologies. However I do take issue with a few of the other points you make:
I honestly would not go to a game con to fit in, I would go for the gaming. I know for a fact I wouldn't fit in, not because of my sexual orientation or anything like that, for other reasons that aren't really relevant. One does not need to be homosexual to be alienated, and I also fail to see how sexual orientation even comes up that often during a gaming convention.
Then again, having never been to one I wouldn't really know.
As for the comic by itself, if it can be interpreted in a particularly negative way without having read the explanation below it, you're not doing a very good job in my opinion. If it is meant to represent your view, it should at least try to include some of the explanation below.
Edit:
Oh, and this:
Comes off as both racist and ageist at once.
Ok, let me give you an analogy. You are in a room with your friends and the group is entirely male. You tend to wind up speaking and acting a certain way - maybe you swear a little more, maybe you care less about farting, maybe you bring up hot girls a little more than you would if there were a girl present. It's a subtle shift in behavior that isn't a big deal in and of itself, but it makes you more comfortable because you don't feel like you have to pay extra attention to what you say and how you say it. (Same thing is true in reverse, by the way - women change how they talk and behave when a man is in the group.)Falterfire said:
If that analogy doesn't work for you, you can use any people who make you fundamentally monitor how you behave - your parents, teachers, coworkers, whatever.
Point is, it's not so much about existing cons being rampantly homophobic (though sure, sometimes that happens), but rather creating an environment where you don't have to worry about that at all. You walk through the door more able to be comfortably you, expressing all aspects of your personality. Sexuality informs many aspects of our life, big and small - everything from the clothes we wear to the entertainment we like to the kind of character we want to talk about to the cosplay we admire. No, it's not like attendees would necessarily be WOOO I'M GAYYYYYY the entire time they're at the show, but they wouldn't have to worry about getting uncomfortable looks when they mention their same-sex partner, or getting stared at if they held hands as they perused artist's alley.
Plenty of gaymers have wonderful experiences at cons, but I love the idea of GaymerCon. A place where people can feel safe as welcome as they celebrate their geekitude? Fantastic!
Though I've never been to a convention I really can't see the sexual discrimination being bad at a gamer con. I'd also think that if you were you'd probably be thrown out very quickly by the convention organisers who wouldn't want a reputation of being a homophobic venue.
Sorry but I feel this sexual orientation segregation is going too far into all aspects of life where it isn't actually relevant. I'd be tempted to turn up to a gamer con, then a gaymer con to truly see if there's a big difference though I couldn't help but feel discriminated against by the latter just because I have a different sexual preference when the convention should be focusing more on games.
I find that there's too many homosexual movements that are acting like the world owes them for being gay and people should stop and respect them for it. Why, your gay, so what? the big deal is? Wow so people insult you because of it, lots of people insult others for being different, that's their problem and highlights their flaws, not yours.
Sorry but I feel this sexual orientation segregation is going too far into all aspects of life where it isn't actually relevant. I'd be tempted to turn up to a gamer con, then a gaymer con to truly see if there's a big difference though I couldn't help but feel discriminated against by the latter just because I have a different sexual preference when the convention should be focusing more on games.
I find that there's too many homosexual movements that are acting like the world owes them for being gay and people should stop and respect them for it. Why, your gay, so what? the big deal is? Wow so people insult you because of it, lots of people insult others for being different, that's their problem and highlights their flaws, not yours.
Wait, that was a joke? And... I didn't get it...DVS BSTrD said:Geo Da Sponge said:He didn't, he referred to conventions as "things".DVS BSTrD said:I would appreciate it if you didn't refer to gaymers as "things"Hoplon said:
I thought the sarcasm was implies by the
Liked the comic, especially the guy without pants and it makes a valid point.
Bit sad at the whole "if you're a white and straight teenager then you wouldn't understand" vibe of the description though. That's just a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you go in expecting others to misunderstand then chances are pretty high that that's how things will end up.
Issues like this are never solved by even more alienation, it's vital to seek common ground from which to build understanding. Going in with the expectation that there's no such common ground because the opposite side is of a specific race, sexual orientation, age etc. is anathema to tolerance and understanding.
Bit sad at the whole "if you're a white and straight teenager then you wouldn't understand" vibe of the description though. That's just a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you go in expecting others to misunderstand then chances are pretty high that that's how things will end up.
Issues like this are never solved by even more alienation, it's vital to seek common ground from which to build understanding. Going in with the expectation that there's no such common ground because the opposite side is of a specific race, sexual orientation, age etc. is anathema to tolerance and understanding.
Not that gaming websites particularly report on this convention knowing full well that more posts will come up with rage and even more anti-rage rage and thus increase the website's value. No, nothing that cynical would ever happen. Look, you get the audience you court. Gaming websites court some of the worst - particularly including spoiled, straight, white, guys who have no clue just how fortunate and taken care of they are.
Your analogy is so specific and at the very same time can be applied to almost 1000 different parts of an individual's identity. There's almost always a potential "something" to worry about because the very nature of a group of 2 or more people is that each person is decidedly different and there's always one or several reasons we're adapting our behaviour.Susan Arendt said:
If you take that thinking to its logical extreme you get none-sense like "Gay-black-short-women-middle aged-mer con". Add as many adjectives as you need in order to feel comfortable with the people around you.
Isn't the point of a convention that people who probably have very different tastes in other things (be it hobbies or choice of sexual partner), come together to geek out on whatever the chosen subject at hand is, be it comics/games/films?
I think your arguments are very poor reasons to segregate. General acceptance of LGBT people has undoubtedly increased 1000 fold in the past 100 years... we've gone from a majority that would hang a homosexual as a deviant to a minority who will maybe mutter and stare a little - and you're saying that now is the time to segregate because of a few stares?
In another few decades, with any luck, all people will have ceased to bat an eye-lid at a triviality such as sexual orientation - a good many of us already don't. I'd argue it's the small harmless things (like two gay people holding hands in public) that go the furthest toward changing general opinion for the better as they quietly express a new norm.
I always thought the point behind people asking was based around the idea that if anybody ever made a "Straight-Gamer-Con" they'd be called homophobic as opposed to confusion of why they'd actually want one.
That's not to say that I have that view myself (I don't), but that was the reason I thought people were against it more than anything else.
That's not to say that I have that view myself (I don't), but that was the reason I thought people were against it more than anything else.