On Gaymers and Cons

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knight steel

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JudgeGame said:
knight steel said:
TheEvilRatigan said:
knight steel said:
Grey Carter said:
On Gaymers and Cons

Don't be that guy.

Read Full Article
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Nooooooooooooo I doooooooooooon't waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaant toooooooooooooooooo :p
But seriously many don't deserve it and how can we ever come together as a group if we flick between hating different groups it just undermines the progress we went through.
Your's truly the wonderful all knowing and kind leader of the human race known as knight steel ^_^
But you understand that the ignorance comes from the fact they are in a position of privelege and have been able to go through life blissfully unaware of the problems other demographics face, right?
Hey white people aren't that privileged I mean we have to go to boring to school, It's hard to afford all the great games that come out in a year, and our parent only by us second hand cars........
 

JudgeGame

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knight steel said:
JudgeGame said:
knight steel said:
TheEvilRatigan said:
knight steel said:
Grey Carter said:
On Gaymers and Cons

Don't be that guy.

Read Full Article
snip
snip
Nooooooooooooo I doooooooooooon't waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaant toooooooooooooooooo :p
But seriously many don't deserve it and how can we ever come together as a group if we flick between hating different groups it just undermines the progress we went through.
Your's truly the wonderful all knowing and kind leader of the human race known as knight steel ^_^
But you understand that the ignorance comes from the fact they are in a position of privelege and have been able to go through life blissfully unaware of the problems other demographics face, right?
Hey white people aren't that privileged I mean we have to go to boring to school, It's hard to afford all the great games that come out in a year, and our parent only by us second hand cars........
I really cannot tell but I hope you are joking.
 

knight steel

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Jul 6, 2009
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JudgeGame said:
knight steel said:
JudgeGame said:
knight steel said:
TheEvilRatigan said:
knight steel said:
Grey Carter said:
On Gaymers and Cons

Don't be that guy.

Read Full Article
snip
snip
Nooooooooooooo I doooooooooooon't waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaant toooooooooooooooooo :p
But seriously many don't deserve it and how can we ever come together as a group if we flick between hating different groups it just undermines the progress we went through.
Your's truly the wonderful all knowing and kind leader of the human race known as knight steel ^_^
But you understand that the ignorance comes from the fact they are in a position of privelege and have been able to go through life blissfully unaware of the problems other demographics face, right?
Hey white people aren't that privileged I mean we have to go to boring to school, It's hard to afford all the great games that come out in a year, and our parent only by us second hand cars........
I really cannot tell but I hope you are joking.
Hey I'm completely serious T_T but that doesn't invalidate my point that attacking us just undermines your point and makes it harder for us to comprehend you and you strange ways!
 

JudgeGame

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Jan 2, 2013
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knight steel said:
JudgeGame said:
knight steel said:
JudgeGame said:
knight steel said:
TheEvilRatigan said:
knight steel said:
Grey Carter said:
On Gaymers and Cons

Don't be that guy.

Read Full Article
snip
snip
Nooooooooooooo I doooooooooooon't waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaant toooooooooooooooooo :p
But seriously many don't deserve it and how can we ever come together as a group if we flick between hating different groups it just undermines the progress we went through.
Your's truly the wonderful all knowing and kind leader of the human race known as knight steel ^_^
But you understand that the ignorance comes from the fact they are in a position of privelege and have been able to go through life blissfully unaware of the problems other demographics face, right?
Hey white people aren't that privileged I mean we have to go to boring to school, It's hard to afford all the great games that come out in a year, and our parent only by us second hand cars........
I really cannot tell but I hope you are joking.
Hey I'm completely serious T_T but that doesn't invalidate my point that attacking us just undermines your point and makes it harder for us to comprehend you and you strange ways!
I think your idea of what constitutes an attack is warped.
 

Jenvas1306

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How about a con for gamers who arent assholes and/or intolerant? so all sorts of people can go there without having to worry about being discriminated.
Would that do the same or is it necessary that its just for gay people? Cause in that case I want my FemGamercon, especially with an area with access only for TG people like me. A seperate con for that probably wouldnt have many visiotors, but why discriminate just cause of smaller numbers?
 

JudgeGame

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Jenvas1306 said:
How about a con for gamers who arent assholes and/or intolerant? so all sorts of people can go there without having to worry about being discriminated.
Would that do the same or is it necessary that its just for gay people? Cause in that case I want my FemGamercon, especially with an area with access only for TG people like me. A seperate con for that probably wouldnt have many visiotors, but why discriminate just cause of smaller numbers?
For the trillionth time, this con ALLOWS ACCESS TO EVERYBODY.
 

Jenvas1306

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JudgeGame said:
Jenvas1306 said:
How about a con for gamers who arent assholes and/or intolerant? so all sorts of people can go there without having to worry about being discriminated.
Would that do the same or is it necessary that its just for gay people? Cause in that case I want my FemGamercon, especially with an area with access only for TG people like me. A seperate con for that probably wouldnt have many visiotors, but why discriminate just cause of smaller numbers?
For the trillionth time, this con ALLOWS ACCESS TO EVERYBODY.
I might be underinformed there... what exactly is the prupose of this con again? Its just so homosexuals dont have to be bothered with homophobia? shouldnt that ideally be the case at normal cons?
 

JudgeGame

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Jenvas1306 said:
JudgeGame said:
Jenvas1306 said:
How about a con for gamers who arent assholes and/or intolerant? so all sorts of people can go there without having to worry about being discriminated.
Would that do the same or is it necessary that its just for gay people? Cause in that case I want my FemGamercon, especially with an area with access only for TG people like me. A seperate con for that probably wouldnt have many visiotors, but why discriminate just cause of smaller numbers?
For the trillionth time, this con ALLOWS ACCESS TO EVERYBODY.
I might be underinformed there... what exactly is the prupose of this con again? Its just so homosexuals dont have to be bothered with homophobia? shouldnt that ideally be the case at normal cons?
I haven't informed myself much but the gist is a videogame con that centres around LGBT. Things that might not be present at this con are booth babes, rampant homophobia and masculinity worship. I also assume there will be stricter control over people's behaviour especially regarding misogynistic and homophobic language.
 

Jenvas1306

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JudgeGame said:
SNIP

I haven't informed myself much but the gist is a videogame con that centres around LGBT. Things that might not be present at this con are booth babes, rampant homophobia and masculinity worship. I also assume there will be stricter control over people's behaviour especially regarding misogynistic and homophobic language.
sounds just as a proper regular con should be, but people might just claim that its alright to be homophobic etc as 'this is not the gaymer con' and try to keep it as a safe misogynist zone...
sounds like a thing that could easily happen...
 

JudgeGame

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Jenvas1306 said:
JudgeGame said:
SNIP

I haven't informed myself much but the gist is a videogame con that centres around LGBT. Things that might not be present at this con are booth babes, rampant homophobia and masculinity worship. I also assume there will be stricter control over people's behaviour especially regarding misogynistic and homophobic language.
sounds just as a proper regular con should be, but people might just claim that its alright to be homophobic etc as 'this is not the gaymer con' and try to keep it as a safe misogynist zone...
sounds like a thing that could easily happen...
Well, jerks are not going anywhere soon. Gaymer X is more like a show of discontent with the current state of conventions than a cure to the problem. Having said that, I'm sure the post-mortem of the operation will be enlightening and contribute a lot of useful knowledge to other people organizing conventions.
 

Ernil Menegil

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I look at the size of this thread and I weep.

For the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, is it that goddamn hard to leave LGBT people alone?! Is there REALLY so much of a butthurt that there must be this big a deluge of debate?

Small wonder this world's in the state it is.
 

CaptainKoala

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This is a logical fallacy. 'Gaymers' are people already within a group who feel obligated to make a sort of subculture out of it, when there is really no need to have one. As long as there is no such thing as a 'Straight Gaming Conference' there is no need for one composing entirely of gay people.
 

positiveParadox

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matthew_lane said:
Luke Brittain said:
-part of an earlie quote-
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.ASP

The sad part is that Jack Chick isn't some kind of epic trolling machine, he actually believes what he says. His entire business is publishing books and comics that basically hate everything that isn't his particular flavor of Christianity.

-end part of an earlier quote-

That was so bad. I think I'm gonna puke.
Are we sure that Jack Chick isn't a troll? In fact if i was shown his stuff without the background context i would have taken his work on Chick Tracts as a Poe, lampooning right wing fundementalist christians.
A little bit of misquoting there. But no worries! I fixed it.
This guy works for -no, founded and owns!- the website and company, www.chick.com and Chick Publications, respectively.
Look at some links at the bottom of his cartoon. He explains his thoughts on D & D in greater detail. HE HATES D & D. Absolutely. His hate is evident to such a degree that he sounds like a member of Westboro Baptist Church damning the gay population of America. The comic was not a joke. He believes that D & D was created with great inspiration from actual Satanists. I must excuse myself. Go read his website for yourself; I cannot continue.
 

JudgeGame

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CaptainKoala said:
This is a logical fallacy. 'Gaymers' are people already within a group who feel obligated to make a sort of subculture out of it, when there is really no need to have one. As long as there is no such thing as a 'Straight Gaming Conference' there is no need for one composing entirely of gay people.
I swear... This convention is not exclusively for LGBT gamers. Anyone can go. As long as you are educated and respectful you will fit right in. This is not a subculture.
 

Darken12

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th3dark3rsh33p said:
Okay fine. I agree with treating people badly who actually actively treat you badly. I'm asking you to not treat people badly who haven't done a damn thing to you, by lumping them in with everyone who has treated you badly. I'm not asking you to not be mad oppressors, I am asking you to stop blaming everyone of same group that the oppressors belong to merely because of their gender and skin color. Your bigotry is just as bad in that regard, and when innocent people are blamed for these things, and then they become bitter at you, then they can argue the same thing, that their hate is reactive and that they should be allowed to paint all minorities as angry and irrational for having treated them in such an unfair way.

It's a two way street. The reason racism/bigotry is bad is because people become automatically judged based on an irrelevant measure of their character, sexuality, gender, race, etc. It's perfectly reasonable to judge someone or not give service to someone who has committed genocide, but that's due to their actions not traits out of their control. However its not reasonable to assume certain factors about a person due to aforementioned irrelevant character traits that have no bearing on who or what the person is or capable of doing, or what they believe.

Blaming an innocent white male for the sins of his family, the sins of school, or the sins of community is completely unjust, and your hatred and bitterness will turn him against you, and hopefully just you. Hopefully it won't color his perception of the entire group because you or another angry person felt justified in their own bigotry.

Bigotry begets bigotry. Only when we sit back and stop painting with broad brushes will things start to cool off. Hating the individuals who oppressed you is okay. Hating an entire group for the actions of said individuals is not.
I completely agree, intellectually, but what about the gray areas? From your post, it sounds that straight people are made up of hate-crime-committing assholes and innocent allies. We both know this isn't the case. What about people who are only slightly homophobic? What about the aforementioned Xbox Live young'uns and the douchebros? You know, the people who keep trying to justify the usage of ****** as a slur, or who firmly believe that being gay is an insult to a guy's masculinity? What about the multitude of people in this very thread who loathe the idea of LGBT people receiving more inclusion, having their own spaces, being more prevalent in gaming culture and the like? And I don't mean "disagree intellectually", I mean the kind of venom and arrogance you've seen in this very thread (and worse. I've seen far worse). What about all those people? I agree that it's unfair to be bigoted against them, but they sure don't seem to care about the way their arguments come off. Why should I pause and think if what I'm saying might be misconstrued as bigotry when they clearly don't do that? And why can't I do what they do, and get defensive when I get called out on my insensitivity and bias?

It's not that easy. You can't snap your fingers and get rid of bigotry, because not all bigotry is loud and obvious. Some bigotry is far more understated.

Zachary Amaranth said:
The problem here is that people still feel alienating heterosexuals, or even drawing protests. A commercial-scale game might be too big an albatross. Or, at least, so they fear.

Just saying.
Judging from this thread, I wouldn't blame them. We still have a long way to go before having a gay main character stops drawing outrage.
 

xorinite

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JudgeGame said:
But you understand that the ignorance comes from the fact they are in a position of privilege and have been able to go through life blissfully unaware of the problems other demographics face, right?
Interesting, because in my country teenagers white and otherwise are over represented in the criminal justice system, given special legal status which upgrades normally civil offences to criminal offences, have bans put on their choices of clothing, excessively demonised in the media as criminals and thugs drumming up an incredible atmosphere of hostility and fear regarding this demographic.

I can't tell you how many times the TVs stations where I live will air the same seventeen year old video of some kids in hooded sweatshirts smashing a car up whenever they talk about teenagers. People cross the street where I live if they see teenagers on the same side of the road as them, and will automatically assume they are about criminal behaviour whenever they congregate, often using law enforcement to disperse them with the implied threat of violence, there are special laws for this group you see.

Oh and if you are a teenager and you are talking about anything with anyone online and they find out your age, you are far more likely to be marginalised and your views dismissed summarily usually derisively.

They are (mostly) children, of course they are going to be ignorant, and its got nothing to do with with the ever more common excuse to make presumption and prejudice against someone without ever having to get to know that person, privilege, its because they are don't actually have any life experience yet.

I mean seriously, if children and teenagers are to be made to feel ashamed for asking adults about why they arrange their affairs in the way they do how will they ever learn anything?

Edit: clarification. I don't mean to sound as aggressive as I fear this does, heat with light and all that, certainly not in a directed manner towards you judge, but half the time people just call someone privileged so they never have to even get to know them.

Edit: additional and on topic.

My immediate emotional reaction was that I am against this, no rational, just emotion.
I thought about it to determine why I feel that way I figured it out pretty fast. I don't want gay people to have their own party because they might not come to my party and I want them to come to my party.

That having been said, I don't even go to cons so I don't know why I feel like nobodies coming to mine, when I'm not even there myself. My feeling is that I want to have conventions where everyone who shares my hobbies and interests can be there so I can enjoy their presence, I don't want them not to be there, since that means I miss out on people who might be my friends.

Of course as JudgeGame and others have said anyone can go to this Gaymer con, so its more a Gaymer friendly con. Which is fine, and my dystopian vision of cons becoming ghost towns attended to by only a handful of souls is unfounded.

It isn't like gold rush towns, or to a lesser extent internet forums. Conventions by their nature are dynamic, occurring in instances, and motivated strongly by market forces so they can splinter, merge and splinter again and we will probably be better off by the end result, or at least no worse off for the journey.

The cartoons though.. No, I'm not seeing much applicability. Gay and non gay public toilets sound like a bad idea, too close to imposed segregation and Buddhist and non Buddhist temples are exclusive sets, where as gaymer con doesn't exclude by all accounts so that one doesn't really work either.
 

CaptainKoala

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JudgeGame said:
CaptainKoala said:
This is a logical fallacy. 'Gaymers' are people already within a group who feel obligated to make a sort of subculture out of it, when there is really no need to have one. As long as there is no such thing as a 'Straight Gaming Conference' there is no need for one composing entirely of gay people.
I swear... This convention is not exclusively for LGBT gamers. Anyone can go. As long as you are educated and respectful you will fit right in. This is not a subculture.
In the same way, normal gaming conventions welcome everyone, and asks everyone there to be educated and respectful as well.

The gay gaming convention idea just seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
 

Something Amyss

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squid5580 said:
Silly me I forgot that if I assault someone of my same race and sexual orientation it is merely a crime. But if I were to assault someone of a different race or sexual orientation it is a hate crime. No matter the actual reasoning behind it. Mmm tastes like equality.
It also tastes like dishonesty, since that's not really how it works.

Tell you what, though. Any time you want to switch roles, I'm game. You can get the special privilege of being so at risk there are laws that give you "special treatment," and see how good it actually feels.

Now exactly how is that going to change anything.
A good thing nobody's using that model to change anything.

And you know that sometimes gay people get passed over for promotions or beat up because they can be assholes to right? Everytime a LGBT suffers it isn't because of sexual orientation.
Thank you for taking that stand against someone nobody's saying.

Darken12 said:
Judging from this thread, I wouldn't blame them. We still have a long way to go before having a gay main character stops drawing outrage.
Especially since people will flip out over even a "gay option."

Mass Effect got crap for just having a possible gay interest. People seem unwilling (I don't think they're really unable) to empathise with or relate to a character who is different.

Then again, this logic isn't exclusive to gaming. Just look at movies: people flipped out over black dwarves and Gods, but they were okay with with Katniss being played by an Aryan poster child. Hell, they even complained about one of the characters in the Hunger Games movie being black...WHEN THEY WERE BLACK IN THE FREAKING BOOK!

I honestly doubt we can get gays as a focus while we're still running around, scared of black people.
 

Something Amyss

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Houseman said:
African Americans have separated their word of oppression from it's roots. Why can't you?
They only have within certain contexts. People don't usually bat an eyelash at black people using the "N word" because it's a lot less common for someone to hate their own people, and the word has an inherent implication of inferiority.

Go ahead and call people it on XBLA, though, and it's not divorced from its roots.

Gays already have that level of separation. Well, sort of. It's harder to identify a homosexual on sight, like it is a black person.

The point remains, people often say there is no context nor is there an implication. Yet most of them don't go around saying the "N word." Why? Because they have a basic grasp of the implications and context, even if they don't seem to understand it.

Ideally, nobody would be offended by these words. Still, hearing thousands of little kiddies screaming "******!" is annoying, period. And the only reason it's an insult is because being gay is considered to be a bad thing. (edited for clarification)

Outside of your own circle, when's the last time you used language like that? I'm just curious.
 

TheRealCJ

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Bealzibob said:
What exactly would you have at a gay gamer convention that would be different to any other gamer convention or is it just got a gaudy stereotypical colour palate and gives you the comfortable feeling that everyone around you can relate because not only are they gamers but they are also gay?
How about things that aren't squared directly at 18-24 year old males? Booth Babes, for one. How many scantily-clad women would get a gay man's heart racing?