On Gaymers and Cons

[rbstewart7263]

A lady friend of mine who at the time was prominent in the dance scene was showing interest in her lesbian aquaintances. only one or two gave her a chance. The rest figured she wasnt serious lezzy material and wrote her off.

I don't get it....they thourght she wasnt gay enough?

lol Like they thought she was merely curious and thus below there attention. when in reality she was looking for something serious. The gay community where I live in ms is not huge so variety is a bit lacking i guess. Otherwise she could have just found better people.

 

[Abomination]

I'm sorry, when did any of these violent acts upon members of the LGBT community occur at a gaming convention?

It was in response to Matthew's punched in the face comment, somewhat jokingly pointing out gays that really did get punched in the face and apparent belief that gays are just playing it up so they can have the victim card, it was a sloppy arguement but I can't provide any proof of discrimination at a con specifically outside of personally witnessing them and he doesn't seem to believe those as anything but exaggeration.

Thing is, the debate is surrounding what happens at a gaming convention that would encourage LGBT to make their own version of it. Acts that occur outside of gaming conventions do not apply, despite how terrible they may be.

 

[The Material Sheep]

Ehhh... the racism without power stuff always made me tip my head to the side. Between affirmative action, acceptable tribalism among minority groups and just general belief in "white male" privilege, you'd be surprised how untrue the idea of unequal job opportunity is in the professional/collegiate field. Perhaps your correct on the lower end of the pay scale, but in general those jobs are far more numerous to begin with.

I remember hearing a year ago or so how my cousin was consistently passed up for a job despite above average credentials do to being not a minority. Not specifically stated, but the evidence in both situations was more then ample towards that conclusion. Racism, bigotry and anything like that is wrong regardless of who does, and despite the notion of power. Any and all bigotry should be shunned equally because all it does is foster hatred between groups as those who never propagated bigotry are being punished with the consequences. So saying one side is okay or not as bad because it's "toothless" is just absurd. It's a notion we have to get over before any of these problems are really solved.

With all due respect, I'm just going to have to disagree. I can't think of a non-asshole way to put it, so I'm just gonna say it: our bigotry is reactive. No LGBT person believes that being straight is a sin, abnormal, a disease, an insult to virility/femininity, a synonym of weakness, or unnatural. Our bigotry is reactive. We didn't start it, and I am frankly tired of being told to be the better person, and take the high road, and find reserves of benevolence and forgiveness that I just don't have while there are assholes out there that do far worse than I do and straight people prefer to turn a blind eye on.

So no, I'm sorry, I don't think it's at all reasonable to ask the minorities and the oppressed to stop being hateful and bigoted when there is far worse out there that nobody gives a shit about. When the playing field is actually level and both sides are bigoted in similar ways, that is, when there are no more hate crimes, violence against women, and we have universal gay rights across the globe, no more gender/racial disparities and so on, when all we have against each other are hurtful words, then we'll talk.

Okay fine. I agree with treating people badly who actually actively treat you badly. I'm asking you to not treat people badly who haven't done a damn thing to you, by lumping them in with everyone who has treated you badly. I'm not asking you to not be mad oppressors, I am asking you to stop blaming everyone of same group that the oppressors belong to merely because of their gender and skin color. Your bigotry is just as bad in that regard, and when innocent people are blamed for these things, and then they become bitter at you, then they can argue the same thing, that their hate is reactive and that they should be allowed to paint all minorities as angry and irrational for having treated them in such an unfair way.

It's a two way street. The reason racism/bigotry is bad is because people become automatically judged based on an irrelevant measure of their character, sexuality, gender, race, etc. It's perfectly reasonable to judge someone or not give service to someone who has committed genocide, but that's due to their actions not traits out of their control. However its not reasonable to assume certain factors about a person due to aforementioned irrelevant character traits that have no bearing on who or what the person is or capable of doing, or what they believe.

Blaming an innocent white male for the sins of his family, the sins of school, or the sins of community is completely unjust, and your hatred and bitterness will turn him against you, and hopefully just you. Hopefully it won't color his perception of the entire group because you or another angry person felt justified in their own bigotry.

Bigotry begets bigotry. Only when we sit back and stop painting with broad brushes will things start to cool off. Hating the individuals who oppressed you is okay. Hating an entire group for the actions of said individuals is not.

 

[Something Amyss]

They wouldn't need a doorman turning people away. The name says it all. Only this type of person is welcome here. The rest aren't!

Except that isn't even remotely true. You know how I know?

GaymerX says it's not. The last con didn't make it so. Straights attended. End of story.

Now, would you care to rephrase? Possibly answer my question? Maybe even apologise to "Gaymers" for false equivalence?

but I suppose your message was an attempt at sarcasm.

No, it was an attempt to point out how absurd it is to point out that the alternative will do exactly what the existing situation already does.

Look, it's nice that you have never noticed this sort of thing happening, that's good for you. Unfortunately, it is still a real thing which exists and which gays fear. Also, nobody's really proposing this as a "permanent" solution.

I'm sorry but what community doesn't take their lumps on a regular basis? Too old, to young, to rich, to poor, homed or homeless, hair too long, hair too short, casual or hardcore gamer. I don't know a single type of person who hasn't been singled out due to something and been picked on for it.

I was going to call this false equivalence, but then I remembered all those laws across the country calling to ban gamer marriages. Then it all came back: The Senators on TV opposing laws preventing you from beating up long hairs, the debate on letting poor people into the military, the "hardcore only" drinking fountains, chick Fil-a donating to anti-yourth organisations....

And now I feel horrible for daring to trivialise the struggles of those groups compared to homosexuals. Clearly, these groups have suffered enough for this to be a fair, equatable comparison.

 

[Schadrach]

What level witch are you? The "Satanic panic" of roleplaying games like Dungeons & Dragons leading to occultism has become cliché, but to what degree is it true?

Okay, do we actually think that anyone was really afraid D&D was satanic? I mean if i thought that a group of people especially the disenfrancised were getting demonic powers from a gaming manual, would you really go fuck with them?

Seriously?

I've got a book, it gives me demonic powers & you want to take away my book & by extension my demonic powers? An y ou think i'm going to just let you? If only i had some sort of demonic powers i could use to stop you?

I mean seriously, is there anyone alive who thinks those christians really thought that D&D gave demonic powers?

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.ASP

The sad part is that Jack Chick isn't some kind of epic trolling machine, he actually believes what he says. His entire business is publishing books and comics that basically hate everything that isn't his particular flavor of Christianity.

 

[Something Amyss]

...Although, they do say "ally," and I can't help but feel he might be a bit antagonistic.

And in what universe is the word "ally" used antagonistically?

You may want to re-read that. I did not say that the word "ally" was antagonistic.

I said the wording of the GaymerX statement welcomed allies, and that the poster in question might come off as antagonistic.

 

[Something Amyss]

Innocent until proven guilty is a better way of dealing with people, in my experience and leads to less bad blood over all.

Pointing out the prevalence of homophobia in gaming is not accusing the idividual, however. She merely did that. At least, as far back in the conversation as I went.

She is correct. While not everyone is, there is a predominant homophobic, transphobic presence in gaming.

I don't know you and I don't judge you, but even if I knew you it wouldn't change the overall picture.

The LGBT demographic is commercially viable, but people are never going to realise that without tangible proof.

The problem here is that people still feel alienating heterosexuals, or even drawing protests. A commercial-scale game might be too big an albatross. Or, at least, so they fear.

Just saying.

Don't take this the wrong way but to me this does come off as flame-baiting, not something I would expect from featured content on the Escapist, I hoped this was a classier place than that.

I see yuo haven't watched Zero Punctuation, the Jimquisition, and have not read prior Critical Miss. All three are frequently accused of such things.

I don't get it....they thourght she wasnt gay enough?

or they thought she was slumming it.

Bisexuals (and if you want to extend it, pansexuals, etc) can get a lot of crap from gays and lesbians. Someone who's deemed to be "just looking" can get even more crap.

People use this as proof that gays are just as bigoted. It's really more proof that anyone can be a jerk.

 

[The Material Sheep]

To the guy above me, since I havent quite figured out how to do individual quotes.

I'm fine with addressing the overall problem, I just don't find these exclusionary practices help in that regard. Just seems like more setting up your own tents to have an excuse to justify your tribe. Instead of just... I don't know having fun at a gaming convention. IF there really is a serious problem of homophobia and discrimination at regular gaming conventions then I feel the question should be aimed at why can't we fix those instead of making an exclusive one. Stop dividing and start finding common ground.

PS: I know it's not really exclusive but naming something Gaymer Con doesn't evoke a message of everyone is welcome.

PSS: Homosexuals can be incredibly bigoted and mean jerks. They can also be incredibly nice great people(I like to think I'm a nice person :3)who just want to live and let live. Bigotry is not exclusive to anyone one group of people, it's a dumb idea that harkens back to our days as tribal primitives who loved to make their us vs thems to feel safe and secure.

 

[TheEvilRatigan]

On Gaymers and Cons

Don't be that guy.

Read Full Article

Dear Mr Carter I would like it if you would NOT use such comments such as the following "steeped in that luxurious ignorance particular to white teenagers".
As I am a white teenager myself I feel offended that you would use a negative stereotype to insult us while then trying to breed understanding and tolerance as you are undermining your own message by doing so (insulting said people who ask said questions when you your self said it is simply because they are ignorant) also does not help your cause and simply anger people.
Your's truly the wonderful all knowing and kind leader of the human race known as knight steel ^_^

Your objection is on par with people objecting to misandry, or reverse racism. Yeah, it's a little hypocritical to stereotype white teenagers, but many deserve it, and there haven't been years of hatred directed at white teenagers. Quit whining.

 

[The Material Sheep]

On Gaymers and Cons

Don't be that guy.

Read Full Article

Dear Mr Carter I would like it if you would NOT use such comments such as the following "steeped in that luxurious ignorance particular to white teenagers".
As I am a white teenager myself I feel offended that you would use a negative stereotype to insult us while then trying to breed understanding and tolerance as you are undermining your own message by doing so (insulting said people who ask said questions when you your self said it is simply because they are ignorant) also does not help your cause and simply anger people.
Your's truly the wonderful all knowing and kind leader of the human race known as knight steel ^_^

Your objection is on par with people objecting to misandry, or reverse racism. Yeah, it's a little hypocritical to stereotype white teenagers, but many deserve it, and there haven't been years of hatred directed at white teenagers. Quit whining.

Either bigotry is wrong or it isn't. It's fine to get pissed off and angry at those who are actively apart of bigotry, but to punish those who aren't is just wrong.

The systematic oppression through out history of non straight white males isn't what makes bigotry wrong. It's what makes the history tragic and regrettable. Bigotry is wrong because its an unfair judge of character, unfairly marginalizing those who are different for things out of their control. It's not a blank check to turn around and start throwing it the other way, just because there is a history of it.

 

[EtherealBeaver]

double post

 

[EtherealBeaver]

Why is sexuality even a question when it comes to a gaming con? I thought the idea was to play or watch video games. I can see how its very relevant in night clubs etc where (often at least) the focus is romantically inclined but making a Gaymer Con is like making a Gay Kitchen Appliances shop.

I have tons of gay friends and they have never expressed problems fitting into the gamer community because sex is not really a concern there. I think the idea of a Gayming con is pointless and if anything, it sets gay gamers in a worse spot because it points out that they think they need to get segregated to fit in. And yes I did read the text following the comic.

inb4 people who flame me and call me a bigot



Edit: Also...

On Gaymers and Cons

Don't be that guy.

Read Full Article

Dear Mr Carter I would like it if you would NOT use such comments such as the following "steeped in that luxurious ignorance particular to white teenagers".
As I am a white teenager myself I feel offended that you would use a negative stereotype to insult us while then trying to breed understanding and tolerance as you are undermining your own message by doing so (insulting said people who ask said questions when you your self said it is simply because they are ignorant) also does not help your cause and simply anger people.
Your's truly the wonderful all knowing and kind leader of the human race known as knight steel ^_^

Your objection is on par with people objecting to misandry, or reverse racism. Yeah, it's a little hypocritical to stereotype white teenagers, but many deserve it, and there haven't been years of hatred directed at white teenagers. Quit whining.

Wow.

Did you just say that its unfair to talk crap about one group because not all are in a certain way but its okay to talk crap about another group because some are in a certain way? You good sir truly do enjoy double standards.

Its like saying its bad to flip the bird at criminals because not all of them are bad people but its okay to flip the bird to non-criminals because some of them are bastards.

 

[Abomination]

Its like saying its bad to flip the bird at criminals because not all of them are bad people but its okay to flip the bird to non-criminals because some of them are bastards.

Are you really comparing being homosexual to being a criminal? That is just the kind of bigote--

Okay, I'm kidding. Can just see that analogy striking the wrong chord somewhere.

The hilarious thing is there haven't been PAST years of hatred directed at white teenagers - that's reserved for TODAY. And because there is bigotry towards the group TODAY is what makes it okay, apparently. Seems almost the same as the bigotry towards any other group in the past.

 

[positiveParadox]

What level witch are you? The "Satanic panic" of roleplaying games like Dungeons & Dragons leading to occultism has become cliché, but to what degree is it true?

Okay, do we actually think that anyone was really afraid D&D was satanic? I mean if i thought that a group of people especially the disenfrancised were getting demonic powers from a gaming manual, would you really go fuck with them?

Seriously?

I've got a book, it gives me demonic powers & you want to take away my book & by extension my demonic powers? An y ou think i'm going to just let you? If only i had some sort of demonic powers i could use to stop you?

I mean seriously, is there anyone alive who thinks those christians really thought that D&D gave demonic powers?

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.ASP

The sad part is that Jack Chick isn't some kind of epic trolling machine, he actually believes what he says. His entire business is publishing books and comics that basically hate everything that isn't his particular flavor of Christianity.

That was so bad. I think I'm gonna puke.

 

[NemotheElvenPanda]

Er...I don't know. On one hand, as a gamer, a con is a con. There really isn't much of a difference in terms on what you're getting if the resources and entertainment are the same. Yet on the other as gay man, I can understand why so many gay gamers (gaymers, really?) would want their own thing. Go to any forum board -heck, Escapist's- and look through a page about same-sex relationships, homosexuality, and you'll see what I mean. Personally, I don't wear my sexuality on my sleeve, so being in event full of straight guys doesn't bother me, but if I with my hypothetical boyfriend, I'd be lying if I said wasn't a tiny bit paranoid. I think the "Teenage White Guy" comment was a low blow, but it's not *entirely* without justice unfortunately.

 

[RadioactiveMicrobe]

So are my LGBT friends homophobic for saying it's stupid?

 

[squid5580]

They wouldn't need a doorman turning people away. The name says it all. Only this type of person is welcome here. The rest aren't!

Except that isn't even remotely true. You know how I know?

GaymerX says it's not. The last con didn't make it so. Straights attended. End of story.

Now, would you care to rephrase? Possibly answer my question? Maybe even apologise to "Gaymers" for false equivalence?

but I suppose your message was an attempt at sarcasm.

No, it was an attempt to point out how absurd it is to point out that the alternative will do exactly what the existing situation already does.

Look, it's nice that you have never noticed this sort of thing happening, that's good for you. Unfortunately, it is still a real thing which exists and which gays fear. Also, nobody's really proposing this as a "permanent" solution.

I'm sorry but what community doesn't take their lumps on a regular basis? Too old, to young, to rich, to poor, homed or homeless, hair too long, hair too short, casual or hardcore gamer. I don't know a single type of person who hasn't been singled out due to something and been picked on for it.

I was going to call this false equivalence, but then I remembered all those laws across the country calling to ban gamer marriages. Then it all came back: The Senators on TV opposing laws preventing you from beating up long hairs, the debate on letting poor people into the military, the "hardcore only" drinking fountains, chick Fil-a donating to anti-yourth organisations....

And now I feel horrible for daring to trivialise the struggles of those groups compared to homosexuals. Clearly, these groups have suffered enough for this to be a fair, equatable comparison.

Silly me I forgot that if I assault someone of my same race and sexual orientation it is merely a crime. But if I were to assault someone of a different race or sexual orientation it is a hate crime. No matter the actual reasoning behind it. Mmm tastes like equality.

As long as there is these lines drawn in the sand things aren't going to change. Not while 1 side sees the line and runs away. It went from we are here we are we'ere get used to it to we are queer and we will be over there away from you guys. Now exactly how is that going to change anything.

And you know that sometimes gay people get passed over for promotions or beat up because they can be assholes to right? Everytime a LGBT suffers it isn't because of sexual orientation.

 

[jimbob123432]

As a bi gamer, I don't see a problem with Gaymer X (although a more subtle title might be needed) as long as it's not exclusive. But then again, I guess I'm biased.

 

[f1r2a3n4k5]

Silly me I forgot that if I assault someone of my same race and sexual orientation it is merely a crime. But if I were to assault someone of a different race or sexual orientation it is a hate crime. No matter the actual reasoning behind it. Mmm tastes like equality.

False. If you beat assault someone of a different race or sexual orientation BECAUSE OF that race or sexual orientation, THEN it is a hate crime.

And there has been a lot of examples about how gaming and sexuality are related already, but I haven't seen this one. How many of ya'll gamers would LOVE to meet a gal who also likes to play video games. Isn't that the golden standard of "awesome girlfriend" in these circles? Would you ever feel bad if your romantic partner thought games are a "waste of time?"

 

[Baneat]

"I don't see why we'd want to strawman people's arguments then act like we're superior"

There are practical considerations to the monk and bathroom examples stop acting like they're analogous thank you kindly.