On Nazis

combat90

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Mar 28, 2008
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I actually really like the idea of being allowed to choose whether you want a game 18+ or lower, and still have the same (kinda) game. My little brother always comes asking if i got a game he can play, but all the games I have are bloody, and I dont think it is fit for a 9 year old to play Bioshock.
 

NPC

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Nov 24, 2009
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As much as I agree Nazis are overused, and that the Edgar-Allan-Poe-Stash was ruined.
I disagree with a lot of comments saying "oh, they were just following orders, most of them weren't bad." Lots of recent evidence shows how many people did in fact turn over their friends as being traitors only to tell reporters "oh, I don't know how my signature got on there."

I think that if we pump out another "Nazis are bad" game every year, it will be okay.

The problem isn't the Nazis, it's the fact people want to make their games for the point of making games, not to tell a unique story. If a guy yells out "hey, I really think that the fact Britain ended up making a fake army of inflatable tanks was cool... let's make a game where your a spy and you hunt down and kill people who are leaking information to Nazi Germany so that Allied plans are not discovered and stuff like that" let him, sure the game would probably suck, but it's better then "guys, we need another game... you have any spare Nazi sprites?"
 

SachielOne

Former Escapecraft Op
Aug 10, 2009
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There's probably another reason Nazis are used so frequently: There is literally no one (outside of a handful of extremist groups) who will get angry at you for making a game killing Nazis. They may get angry at the violence in the game, but you won't have another Capcom/RE5-type fiasco on your hands.
 

sueyed

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Mar 20, 2009
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SextusMaximus said:
the Taliban are the modern day version (and yes I know they're not fictional.
I'm pretty sure this man just compared the Taliban to Nazi Germany. I shall now attempt to resist jumping on the opportunity to call him an ignorant, short sighted American that couldn't tell the difference between the holocaust and a newscast.

Yeah I failed.
 

SextusMaximus

Nightingale Assassin
May 20, 2009
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sueyed said:
SextusMaximus said:
the Taliban are the modern day version (and yes I know they're not fictional.
I'm pretty sure this man just compared the Taliban to Nazi Germany. I shall now attempt to resist jumping on the opportunity to call him an ignorant, short sighted American that couldn't tell the difference between the holocaust and a newscast.

Yeah I failed.
I'm British I'll have you know, and I know nothing about The Taliban, I thought I'd throw it in there and hope I was right, clearly I wasn't.

I'll now go cry in shame...

In fact, it's probably best if I stop posting in threads with even a hint of Historical background.
 

whaleswiththumbs

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Feb 13, 2009
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WEll, The SAboteur can get away with using Nazis, the game is set at the invasion of Paris, and then the overthrow. So it's not like they could have replaced the baddies with another to make up for it. As fa as I know it was Nazis, not Russian mercenaries who invaded Paris in 1940.
 

Vinticore

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Nov 19, 2009
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Censors are just being silly, buying the game to begin with is a choice by the dude/dudette
 

Eversor

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May 21, 2009
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Nazis are indeed an overused sort of bad guys. Helghast are cool though. I haven't played any of the Killzone games, but to me, they come across as soldiers that fight for the cause they see is right, even noble in their own rotting-zombie-like way. This [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_W1_WbvufQ] theme of theirs might be a large impact, of course. Ruthless to their enemies, fighting for a cause they see is right (as far as I understand, they were somewhat forced to live on their extremely hostile homeworld, being exiled there by the ISA oppressions, the role of which you assume in the games, so their hatred is more than justified) - eliminating the traitor human race. Hell, drop the space-nazi entourage, switch their flags to red, blue and white, and there, now they are the ultimate good guys that were wronged and crippled by their oppressors in the eyes of the media. That's how easy it really is to demonize your enemy - throw nazi entourage on them. That's how deep this whole thing has sat in.

Maybe Killzone has taken the right approach in this, where both conflicting sides can be related to. On the battlefield, the enemy is always evil. But when looking from afar, the two armies clashed into a conflict are often enough exactly the same. But that is thought provoking and difficult to understand, therefore it has no place in the mass media. Nazi Germany should be held as a good example of what happens, when the victors of war go too far in their self-righteous thirst for loot, not the symbol of great evil.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Sylias said:
Ever played any first person shooter that had Nazis in it and thought to yourself : "I wonder if this guy has a family. Maybe he's doing this to feed his kids. Maybe it's his last day because tomorrow he'll have enough of this mindless fighting and BOOOOM there goes his head..."
Do people really wonder this sort of thing in an action game? I don't even wonder this about the 80 year old lady whose oxygen tank I snipe in Saints Row 2, and she's not a Nazi or even a bad guy. It's not because I'm a sociopath or a coward; I just know they're not real. I rarely concern myself with their lives, their race, religion, belief system, or whether or not they brush their teeth. I don't think this is a bad thing, either.

Regarding Nazis: I wouldn't be bothered if they weren't so overdone. Nazis in video games are even more evil in most respects than their real world counterparts. They're only rivaled by the fact that no fictional holocaust can trump the real one, even if you remove all humanity from the characters. If one is really worried, perhaps one should focus a touch more on worrying that we end up trivialising one of the most monstrous acts in modern history.

Regarding T, A, and Cooking Mama: This will replace Cthulhu in my nightmares. Cooking Mama aside, I'm not particularly a fan of the opt-in, but I have to wonder if this is the best sort of solution to placate the whiny people who want to make our world PG. At least the parts without Nazis, terrorists, wars, gang violence, AIDS, cancer, and the depletion of vital resources. You know, because living in a good world isn't as important as pretending we live in a good world.

I don't really "get" the deal with T&A. Both the people who seem to need it in video games and those who think it's so horrible. I tend to err to the side of opposing censorship, though, especially with how unhealthy our cultural views of sex and our bodies are. If you're actually disturbed by body parts roughly half of us have, don't pretend I'm the sick one because I'm not.
 

SimGrave

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I agree with your point on Nazis, but for that matter, popular culture is plagued with a problem of having new ideas. So why insist on that one?

- The Pirates Vs. Ninja fixation is getting old, but there are still people who find that funny.
- People are putting zombies everywhere nowadays and the latest occurrences is always as welcomed as the first.

The Nazis are to shooters what the medieval era is to RPGs. What can we do about it?
 

Coaxill

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Dec 22, 2009
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Irridium said:
If the Australian government and the world didn't have their heads stuck up their asses about censorship we wouldn't have the problem of people crying foul over games showing tits and blood.

When will parents and adults learn that all kids lose innocence when they go to public school.
I went to a catholic school after buying Grand Theft Auto and taught all the kids to swear properly... By properly, I mean gratuitously.
 

Ranko

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Nov 10, 2009
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You know what? Scary as it sounds, even if Yahtzee was actually joking, I find myself liking the idea of adding "adult" material - gore, nude bits, sex, what have you - to a game via DLC. I think it would be a good idea.
 

zamble

We are GOLDEN!
Sep 28, 2009
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Nazis are popular bad guys because of the lack of hesitation on killing them in the player's side. So evil, killing one is always good, even in an accident. Even in a horrible, torturing way, like in Inglorious Basterds.

Strangely enough, the same applies to zombies, not for beeing evil, but for beeing irational. And dead, already. like Nazis.

EDIT: oh, and DLC-porn is always a good idea. People have the right!! To choose to see other persons naked!
 

Ericb

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Sep 26, 2006
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Angerwing said:
I think Nazis are the go-to-guys for baddies, because it's socially acceptable to murder them by the bucketload.
Socially acceptable murder on the bucketload level was precisely the line of thinking of the nazi sympathizers back in the day.

I don't know what that entails, but it was worth the comment.

GrinningManiac said:
I'm sick and tired of all media assuming that, by the time of Normandy, every single German soldier was a diehard, xenophobic sociopath

Most of them, towards the end, were disillusioned veterans, slightly unhinged antisematists, poor men down on their luck, or, the most COMMON background of all, a conscripted farmboy.
That's very true. I remember in the Band of Brothers special special in which there were interveiews with the actual vets from Easy Company, they said time and time again that most german soldiers were just that, soldiers.

Not like the SS and Gestapo, monsters who would kill their own countrymen under orders from the third reich.

The Random One said:
I agree with absolutely every post on this thread, even the ones I disagree with.
That's a brain twister right there.

SimGrave said:
The Nazis are to shooters what the medieval era is to RPGs. What can we do about it?
Stop giving so much money to them would be a good start.
 

Angerwing

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Jun 1, 2009
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Ericb said:
Angerwing said:
I think Nazis are the go-to-guys for baddies, because it's socially acceptable to murder them by the bucketload.
Socially acceptable murder on the bucketload level was precisely the line of thinking of the nazi sympathizers back in the day.
I didn't think about it like that, but you know that's not what I meant. They're like zombies in this scenario.
 

Ericb

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Sep 26, 2006
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Angerwing said:
Ericb said:
Angerwing said:
I think Nazis are the go-to-guys for baddies, because it's socially acceptable to murder them by the bucketload.
Socially acceptable murder on the bucketload level was precisely the line of thinking of the nazi sympathizers back in the day.
I didn't think about it like that, but you know that's not what I meant. They're like zombies in this scenario.
Of course, I wasn't implying anything in that sense.

But yeah, the status they share with zombies as the guys to look for generic cathartic killing really throws away good character and context exploration in regards to gameplay narrative.

Come to think of it, nazis in games actualy share something of a creativity status with wooden crates in FPSs.
 

Tharwen

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May 7, 2009
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[a href="http://www.mcvideogame.com/index-eng.html"]Actually...[/a]
 

Yeq

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You know why Der Untergang was a good film? Because it accepted that the Nazis were humans. I really think that doing that would quite quickly make Nazis interesting again. There's few things more fascinating than how widespread movements can convince people do to just about anything, and all we get is "LOL EVIL LOOK HOW HE LIKES TORTURE". It would take twenty seconds to have a decent story that still managed to bring up Hitler and his gang.

On the other hand, that's probably not what they're going for; they're trying to get a way for you to shoot human beings in a game with the obvious feeling that you're doing the right thing and to remove guilt to make a simpler (and, though I personally disagree with this conclusion, more fun) game, and it's a piece of piss to do that once he's got a swastika around his arm.