One Last look at Mass Effect 3.

Machine Man 1992

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I just wanted to know what people thought. You know, one last look before the new year and we can forget this fucking game forever. One last hurrah for the biggest cock-up in video-game history since the Crash.

But no, it seems some people need to re-argue the same points over again. Ironically, it seems they haven't gotten over it either.
 

DioWallachia

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Maze1125 said:
DioWallachia said:
And Bioware is not entitled to OUR money. They must ear it and failed.
Er... No they didn't.
They made huge amounts on ME3, and retain a very large fan-base for ME4. Just because a minority have gotten so annoyed that they might never buy another ME game, doesn't mean that no-one will.
1)How do you know we are the ellusive "minority"?

2)As someone already claimed before, ME3 sold 1.5 millions of copies on March (logical, since people didnt know already that the game sucked and word of mouth didnt spread yet. Also, do not forget the marketing to lure more COD fans that EA lvoes so much for their inability to recognice crap) BUT, they only made the double of that ammount just recently. That means that the sales dropped like flies EVEN when the price of the game has been lowered even more and more. Doesnt that say something to you about the quality of the game?

As Archengeia said here:


Someone on the executive side IS going to notice the drop in numbers.
 

DioWallachia

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Frission said:
Akratus said:
8 pages already.

Let me ask you something.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT MATTER?

Mass effect is a space power rangers dating sim gears of war game by now ANYWAY. Changing the ending WON'T CHANGE THAT.

Just give mass effect up already!
Huh. I just realized that I stopped even talking about Mass Effect. This thread has become now "the value of art and whether it's truly objective, game company PR and the gamer and game designer relationship"

Someone should really rename this thread.
Since we are talking about art, lets start with this:

http://awtr.wikidot.com/long:this-is-not-a-pipe
http://doycetesterman.com/index.php/2012/03/mass-effect-tolkein-and-your-bullshit-artistic-process/
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=17692

Besides, i have researched for personal reasons about this....game you people like, i am trying to understand the full consequenses of this for the future and MY future as a writer.
 
Mar 9, 2012
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trty00 said:
Yeah, probably... but, so what? You may not like it, but that's how it works. The creator, at the end of the day, can do whatever the fuck they want with the thing that they're making. That's how it goes.
Yeah, the creator can do what he whatever want, even throwing away his legacy without a second thought, and ultimately dying hungry and forgotten, as long he does not suffer from the illusion that he everything he does is a stroke of genius, and that he is automatically entitled to mine and others' loyalty and money.

Maze1125 said:
Er... No they didn't.
They made huge amounts on ME3, and retain a very large fan-base for ME4. Just because a minority have gotten so annoyed that they might never buy another ME game, doesn't mean that no-one will.
The "vocal minority" argument again?

Just take a look at this and weep:

http://social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989

I wouldn't call that that a minority. And before you go out of your way to dismiss it, then you should know that anyone who know the slightest about statistics, customer behavior, and even basic mathematics will agree that Bioware have a problem.
 

DioWallachia

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Machine Man 1992 said:
I just wanted to know what people thought. You know, one last look before the new year and we can forget this fucking game forever. One last hurrah for the biggest cock-up in video-game history since the Crash.

But no, it seems some people need to re-argue the same points over again. Ironically, it seems they haven't gotten over it either.
If people didnt ***** hard enough for games like Metroid Other M, then we wouldnt have this gem of objective observation:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_i.php?lb_id=13373815860B43920100&i_id=13373815860I43921400&p=1

Suck it down, Bob.
 

Maze1125

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DioWallachia said:
Doesnt that say something to you about the quality of the game?
No, the best games I know have sold less total than ME3 has in the last month.
Obviously a game like ME3 was going to have the highest sales right at the start, because it was the end of a story, the main buyers of it were going to be people who had been waiting for this instalment and bought it rightaway.

How do I know the haters are in the minority?
Because when ME3 was released, a huge number of people complained about the ended.
When the extended cut was released, there were threads asking if weather people thought it solved most of the problems, and the majority of responses in those threads were positive, with just a few people continuing to rant.

Therefore, the conclusion must be that most people are fine with ME3 as it stands, unless you're trying to claim that the haters are silent majority in this case (and when does that ever happen?)
 

Maze1125

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Blachman201 said:
Maze1125 said:
Er... No they didn't.
They made huge amounts on ME3, and retain a very large fan-base for ME4. Just because a minority have gotten so annoyed that they might never buy another ME game, doesn't mean that no-one will.
The "vocal minority" argument again?

Just take a look at this and weep:

http://social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989

I wouldn't call that that a minority. And before you go out of your way to dismiss it, then you should know that anyone who know the slightest about statistics, customer behavior, and even basic mathematics will agree that Bioware have a problem.
Er... You do know the ending has changed since then, right?
 

DioWallachia

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Frission said:
Huh. I just realized that I stopped even talking about Mass Effect. This thread has become now "the value of art and whether it's truly objective, game company PR and the gamer and game designer relationship"

Someone should really rename this thread.
Oh, and here is the last post i tried (but nobody listened for the lack of STEEEEEEEEEVE in my post) to understand this "Its art. Cant tought this"

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.392512-I-liked-the-Mass-Effect-3-ending?page=5

Post 165
 

Frission

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Machine Man 1992 said:
I just wanted to know what people thought. You know, one last look before the new year and we can forget this fucking game forever. One last hurrah for the biggest cock-up in video-game history since the Crash.

But no, it seems some people need to re-argue the same points over again. Ironically, it seems they haven't gotten over it either.
Opening old wounds was flamebait to begin with. Are you really that surprised?

http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/197468-1/Manhole-firecracker-explosion.gif

You better take responsibility and sacrifice yourself to end it once and for all.
 

DioWallachia

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Maze1125 said:
DioWallachia said:
Doesnt that say something to you about the quality of the game?
No, the best games I know have sold less total than ME3 has in the last month.
Obviously a game like ME3 was going to have the highest sales right at the start, because it was the end of a story, the main buyers of it were going to be people who had been waiting for this instalment and bought it rightaway.

How do I know the haters are in the minority?
Because when ME3 was released, a huge number of people complained about the ended.
When the extended cut was released, there were threads asking if weather people thought it solved most of the problems, and the majority of responses in those threads were positive, with just a few people continuing to rant.

Therefore, the conclusion must be that most people are fine with ME3 as it stands, unless you're trying to claim that the haters are silent majority in this case (and when does that ever happen?)
O Rly? and did you asked those persons what was THEIR problem with the ending? maybe it was the lack of closure and the fact that they didnt know what happened to their favorite characters. Instead of, you know, the batshit insanity that the mere presense of Catalyst Boy, they just dont care about that, about the plot making sense.

Just by the EC alone there is 3 videos already:

You may say again that its the minority but i have a question: The people that said the EC fixed everything....did they really mean it? or they were scared away with the "YOU ARE AN ENTITLED HEDONISTIC MONSTER!!! HOW DARE YOU CRITICING SOMEONE WHO IS BETTER THAN YOU AT WRITTING!!! DONT YOU SEE YOU ARE DESTROYING GAMING AS AN ART FORM???? YOU SICK FUCK" comments that journalist and biased fans have been barking all the time?

I am sure that in everyone hearts they feel.......unworthy. These games gave you all sooooo much fun, who are we but insignificant creatures that know NOTHING about writing? if we see everything up close then it will always suck.........but we dont want that. We dont want to destroy the only thing that makes me happy and go on with my life, we just dont have the strenght to stand by our belief....

....and apparently neither do the "writers" and their "vision".

Is this what you all feel?
 
Mar 9, 2012
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Maze1125 said:
Er... You do know the ending has changed since then, right?
You say that as if it will win every who was dissatisfied over. The matter of fact is that Bioware has suffered a huge hit to their consumer goodwill and lost quite a few of their evangelist fans, and it will undoubtedly leave some finical mark on them. They might have migrated the effect a bit with the Extended Cut, but they have definitely not averted it.
 

DioWallachia

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Blachman201 said:
Maze1125 said:
Er... You do know the ending has changed since then, right?
You say that as if it will win every who was dissatisfied over. The matter of fact is that Bioware has suffered a huge hit to their consumer goodwill and lost quite a few of their evangelist fans, and it will undoubtedly leave some finical mark on them. They might have migrated the effect a bit with the Extended Cut, but they have definitely not averted it.
What the fuck has the ending to do with pissing off evangelist? that is new to me.
 
Mar 9, 2012
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DioWallachia said:
What the fuck has the ending to do with pissing off evangelist? that is new to me.
I mean "evangelist" as in the context of the fans who does all the word of mouth advertising. Everyone will agree that these are important, as they ultimately do a lot of legwork for free.

Did you know that every dissatisfied costumer on average spread approximately 50 cases of bad word of mouth publicity? It is quite fascinating to read about costumer behavior. :)
 

TehCookie

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Akratus said:
8 pages already.

Let me ask you something.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT MATTER?

Mass effect is a space power rangers dating sim gears of war game by now ANYWAY. Changing the ending WON'T CHANGE THAT.

Just give mass effect up already!
That makes the game sound better than the actual ads...

Then again I never paid attention to the flamewar, all I understood is gamers got a crappy ending and threw a fit. I laugh at people who try to make an artistic statement with it. Games are art, but art can be shit as well.
 

DioWallachia

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Blachman201 said:
DioWallachia said:
What the fuck has the ending to do with pissing off evangelist? that is new to me.
I mean "evangelist" as in the context of the fans who does all the word of mouth advertising. Everyone will agree that these are important, as they ultimately do a lot of legwork for free.

Did you know that every dissatisfied costumer on average spread approximately 50 cases of bad word of mouth publicity? It is quite fascinating to read about costumer behavior. :)
But dont those people make the research on Wikipedia or Tv Tropes to know if the shit they heard was true?
 

Maze1125

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DioWallachia said:
O Rly? and did you asked those persons what was THEIR problem with the ending? maybe it was the lack of closure and the fact that they didnt know what happened to their favorite characters. Instead of, you know, the batshit insanity that the mere presense of Catalyst Boy, they just dont care about that, about the plot making sense.
How is that relevant?
The point you picked me up on was a question of who was the minority.
I gave my evidence to that point and now you're trying to drag me into a discussion on the validity of the writing of the ending.

I don't care why they felt the Extending Cut was enough.
Maybe they don't care about plot holes.
Maybe they disagree with people like you on what constitutes a plot hole.
Maybe the original ending caused them to drop their standards by so much that they were willing to accept any new ending as good enough, which was Bioware's evil plan all along.

I don't know, I don't care. The point is simply that they were satisfied.

You may say again that its the minority but i have a question: The people that said the EC fixed everything....did they really mean it? or they were scared away with the "YOU ARE AN ENTITLED HEDONISTIC MONSTER!!! HOW DARE YOU CRITICING SOMEONE WHO IS BETTER THAN YOU AT WRITTING!!! DONT YOU SEE YOU ARE DESTROYING GAMING AS AN ART FORM???? YOU SICK FUCK" comments that journalist and biased fans have been barking all the time?
And here you're just trying to dismiss people being satisfied with the new ending. "Oh no, they didn't really like the ending, they were just bullied into saying they liked it."
 
Mar 9, 2012
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DioWallachia said:
But dont those people make the research on Wikipedia or Tv Tropes to know if the shit they heard was true?
It all comes down to who you trust the most. A site written by random strangers on the Internet, or the word of a person you have a relationship with.

If the former is becoming the norm, then I weep for humanity.
 

MADARAmagekyo

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Machine Man 1992 said:
I just wanted to know what people thought. You know, one last look before the new year and we can forget this fucking game forever. One last hurrah for the biggest cock-up in video-game history since the Crash.

But no, it seems some people need to re-argue the same points over again. Ironically, it seems they haven't gotten over it either.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here. I cut my teeth on the RPG genre and it has to this day been my go-to genre for escapism. Be it JRPG or Western Style RPG, there's never been anything I enjoy more than losing myself in an epic story. This has colored my psyche somewhat, I imagine.

For me, these games are less about the destination and more about the journey. I've heard a lot of people rag on Final Fantasy 13 but I, for one, loved the hell out of it. Not "I thought it was a good way to kill time when I didn't have anything else to do" loved but rather "I earned my friggin' platinum trophy in FFXIII" loved. The ending, so far as I was concerned, was crap. Hell, the mechanics were crap. The fact you could only control a single character was crap. That there were no towns or respites or anything aside from story progression and combat was crap.

Thing is, I didn't enter into the experience for the mechanics, or the pacing, or the graphics, or the design aesthetics. I was there because I wanted to hear a story. And between the beginning and the end, I thought there was a story WORTH hearing. Something that moved me. Something that made me think. Something that compelled me. It was less about the hour the story took to start and the hour it took for the story to end and more about the 45+ hours that happened in between.

Much the same is true for me for Mass Effect. I went into the experience not terribly concerned about the destination. I was there for the journey. And, for me, the journey was spectacular. That the end point of that story was not the Garden of Eden but instead Hoboken, New Jersey, was never really a consideration. For me, the payoff was in the way the story unfolded, not in how the story ended.

Now, I can absolutely understand how people could be disappointed in the ending. When you invest 100+ hours into another world - its characters, its setting, its history, its evolution, its culmination - then you haven't simply invested your time into the experience. You've invested yourself into the experience. So when the culmination of that investment is less than perfect, which the ending for ME3 most assuredly was, the experience hasn't simply wasted your time. It has taken the portion of your soul that you invested, crumpled it up like so much waste-paper, and thrown it into the trash.

I suppose that maybe I didn't have that kind of investment in Mass Effect. I was there not for the beginning or the end but for everything that was inbetween. And for me, everything that was inbetween was exemplary. Just my two cents.
 

DioWallachia

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Maze1125 said:
Maybe the original ending caused them to drop their standards by so much that they were willing to accept any new ending as good enough, which was Bioware's evil plan all along.

I don't know, I don't care. The point is simply that they were satisfied.
So you follow this.....

And here you're just trying to dismiss people being satisfied with the new ending. "Oh no, they didn't really like the ending, they were just bullied into saying they liked it."
....with this? Just listen to yourself, you are making my point here. People were lied into not taking a stand for what they actually believe.

(a parody of the real thing but not less sad and pathetic)

"The principle and which is quite true in itself and that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily." In short: "The bigger the lie, the more it will be believed."

-Joseph Goebbels

But who cares right? they love it!! they took it in the ass and loved it like any good Stockholm syndrome victim. soon they will love Mein Kampf and Birth of a Nation too :D

They may even love Mass Effect: Deception.

The Ur-EA Masters are pleased.