One Last look at Mass Effect 3.

[BenzSmoke]

Wow OP, I could just copy and past your beginning post and use that as my opinion.

After playing through Mass Effect 3, getting pissed off at the ending. Then going to the internet to discover sources that I once trusted were defending the game and blatantly insulting me in the name of "artistic integrity" that I didn't feel existed in Mass Effect 3. This just turned me off the series completely. I gave away my N7 hoodie, threw out the game, and I haven't taken any interest in anything Mass Effect since.

I'm wondering why I only saw good things being said about the game until people started to play the ending...

I think people were being so simple about it, they thought that a bad ending = bad game.

When people started to say "hold on on a minute, it was still a great game though" the ending people began to try and convince themselves that the game was terrible.

The SpoilerWarningShow (who has Shamus Young from The Escapist) and Smudboy already broke the rest of the game to pieces. And even if those parts were ANY good, that still leaves the fact that the developers lied about your choices mattering at all and the 16 endings that would be different from one another as a result of those choices during ALL the series.

Could I get a link to those?

Spoiler

I know I'm lazy.

Shamus Young's Spoiler Warning: http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?page_id=16386
Smudboy's Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/smudboy

 

[Madkipz]

As for EA, well, they probably set a deadline, but the fault lies with Bioware. You cannot blame EA for wanting to see a game published at a date. It is always up to the project lead to determine whether it is feasible, and whatnot.

Lets suppose for a moment that you had the obligation of making that game in a span of 2 years. Remember, ME1 was released in 2007, then at 2010 ME2 came out (3 years later), but ME3 was set to be released at 2012 (2 years). AND this is the 3rd and final part of the trilogy that it was SUPPOSED to be the ONLY game that had a branching storyline from this point (because if done since day 1 on ME1, it would be a coding nightmare) up to 16 possible endings.

All that in 2 YEARS when not even in 3 they managed to do that on ME2.

You still think that BW is at fault for the short release date?

Yes. At the time of making mass effect 1 they had a trilogy in mind, and obviously there is a difference with 1-2 in how they approached the game, but they didn`t make anything new for the third installment. They just put improvements on the old mass effect 2, copy pasted dungeons as usual, and made every choice you did into a war asset so they wouldn`t have to deal with any choices at all.

If CD Project Red can do branching the Witcher then Bioware can do branching. They were just lazy, took for granted the success of Me3, and had a lot of staff doing SWTOR instead of actually focusing on making a good ME3.

 

[viranimus]

My final thoughts on it? Single greatest ending of any video game in all of existence as mass effect is the greatest story ever told to this generation. Its message succinctly clear though when the dust settled and the truth was revealed to the masses they chose rage and sought to crucify it. The people demanded it be recanted and when bioware gave a second look they reinforced the story by beating the people over the head with the message to which was still missed and left forever into history to be interpreted and deciphered. On multiple levels Bioware wrote and allowed themselves to be martyred for the sake of conveying a message that simply cannot be comprehended today. From very humble beginnings its idea was nurtured and shepherded across the acts of a message so subtle in its simplicity that its complexity was too blinding to see. It delivered its promises not on the level that the mob with stones demanded, but in a way that put the storys salvation ahead of the individual and in the process opened a new world for which the value of brotherhood can be paramount to the sins of such greed. It truly was a beautiful thing, like the warm fleeting afterglow of a candle that since has been blown out, leaving the yearning in darkness struggling to rekindle its light.

As someone that observed the ordeal without any emotion whatsoever and made the research to understand all the fiasco, i fail to see what messege could be better than "Unity Despite Difference" that was ALREADY on the games.

If there is a message that cant be comprehended then you must tell us. Otherwise you are just making shit up.

The writers didnt even bother to show up to explain it (even when they say they WANTED to talk with the fans after the EC) and as far as i know, there is no law in art that doesnt allow your art to be explained. So there is no reason to NOT know.

And you have to yet provide a decent answer.

But I DID give the answer. There is no further elaboration I need to give because It is all right there. To do so would waste my time and effort. You say there is no law preventing art from being explained and you are quite right. But at the same time needing to explain the punchline of a joke defeats its purpose.

 

[Jfswift]

Personally I thought the first was the best, although I had fun playing all three. My biggest gripe with the third was not being able to carry over facial features from the first two. Big deal you say? I think it's game breaking when I'm attempting to "role-play" as commander Shepard and it scrambles his appearance. The ending wasn't great but honestly I didn't think it was *that* awful, I just was annoyed how I played this epic series spanning years of my life and all I get is a cheesy ten minute video. I realize they addressed this with the extended ending but it came out after I finished it and it's a fairly long game.

 

[Blachman201_v1legacy]

My final thoughts on it? Single greatest ending of any video game in all of existence as mass effect is the greatest story ever told to this generation. Its message succinctly clear though when the dust settled and the truth was revealed to the masses they chose rage and sought to crucify it. The people demanded it be recanted and when bioware gave a second look they reinforced the story by beating the people over the head with the message to which was still missed and left forever into history to be interpreted and deciphered. On multiple levels Bioware wrote and allowed themselves to be martyred for the sake of conveying a message that simply cannot be comprehended today. From very humble beginnings its idea was nurtured and shepherded across the acts of a message so subtle in its simplicity that its complexity was too blinding to see. It delivered its promises not on the level that the mob with stones demanded, but in a way that put the storys salvation ahead of the individual and in the process opened a new world for which the value of brotherhood can be paramount to the sins of such greed. It truly was a beautiful thing, like the warm fleeting afterglow of a candle that since has been blown out, leaving the yearning in darkness struggling to rekindle its light.

Implying that Mass Effect 3's ending was "brave", of all things, is one of the most mind-numbingly pretentious things I have ever heard.

And your spiel also implies that the Mass Effect series was planned in details and had a singular, coherent vision. It simply did not. The lead writer was changed half-way through, and it shows in how all foreshadowing in Mass Effect 2 were dropped and never spoken of again. Heck, in the "Final Hours" mini-documentary, Bioware more or less admitted that they made up everything as they went along. They didn't even have a finalized ending script until November 2011, three months before the game went gold, and it was done by two people over the heads of the rest of the writing team, despite it being the norm to let every part of the script undergo a peer-previewing process.

Even going by Occam's razor, everything points towards the whole thing being the result of Hudson and Walters crudely sewing an ending together at the last moment in a desperate bid to keep the deadline and please the corporate overlords.

 

[Blachman201_v1legacy]

-Oops, double post-

 

[FFHAuthor]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand here is the part where i ask you: Can i have your babies?

At least someone understands the future (and actual) implications of all this bullshit. In the same way that gamers havent made a stand when the Ultima series (one of the many victims of EA) got fucked up, and the same way that gamers havent made a stand when that sick fuck murderer Anders Behring Breivik, the man responsible for the Utøya summer camp massacre and Oslo bombing in Norway, claimed that "He used COD as training". History repeats itself (shall we say....the cycle of destruction continues?? OMG SO DEEP BRO!!) now that ME3 got fucked up and this new tragedy happened in the school shootings.

Every gamer has a stake in what happened with ME3, every one of us. It's not about what outsiders expect of us, it's not about what the media says we are, it's not about what some talking heads on a 24 hour news network say we are, it's what we expect of our own hobby.

We've been so busy running around and protecting ourselves from the allegations that games cause murders, rapes, arsons, antisocial behavior, sexual deviancy and every other human ill under the sun, that we've been too busy to take a look in. We've always just assumed that yes, the games makers were a little different, but they were playing on the same team we are, we always assumed that the games journalists were gamers too and we didn't have to worry about the rot within, but it's there. It's all there. A suborned media apparatus, a corporate juggernaut, and practices that are accepted by the entirety of our community and yet decried and despised by everyone.

ME 3 brought up the spectre of 'Gamer entitlement' and there have been endless debates and arguments about what that means, and is it right or is it wrong and what kind of relationship there is between consumer and producer in the videogames market. It's a disturbing thing to think that the only people who considered gamers 'consumers' were Amazon and Steam. Everyone else automatically slotted gamers into the 'entilted whiners' in this affair, even other gamers. We liked to think that because the person behind the register at Gamestop played CoD that the company was on our side.

Perhaps that's one of the things that this did for us, shattered our cultural illusions. Broke that automatic thinking that if it has to do with games and they're for games, that they're on our side. We tended to think that EA was evil, but it was making games and producing what we wanted. We tended to think that we could trust the gaming media because they reviewed and played games too. We tended to think that we could trust the distributors like Gamestop and all the rest because gamers worked there. I suppose that's the deepest level of this for me, the shattering of the illusion of one cohesive gamer culture, that just because we were all in the same boat that we could trust each other, but we can't. We can't trust the developers, or the journalists, or the sales people.

(I realize that my terminology is a bit lowbrow i.e. 'gamers' but it's the language of the culture...)

 

[Uszi]

I mean, this is the EA-ification of video games, right here:

I'm not sure I'll ever forgive them for having this pop up right after the ending. I think it would have rubbed me the wrong way even if the ending had been everything I wanted it to be. But as it was, it was Bioware twisting the knife.

What's more shameless is that they changed it with a patch.

I just wanted to know what people thought. You know, one last look before the new year and we can forget this fucking game forever. One last hurrah for the biggest cock-up in video-game history since the Crash.

But no, it seems some people need to re-argue the same points over again. Ironically, it seems they haven't gotten over it either.

I don't know that anyone got over it.

I think there was a huge stalemate, when the dust settled last spring/summer. Some people made peace with it, others just moved on. Everyone was tired of talking about it.

It's weird, because a lot of people posted excellent deconstruction videos from months ago on the endings which I never saw, and it has been almost like re-experiencing all of my initial butt-hurt over the endings. Every time I see another reason that the endings are bad, and not bad because they disappointed fans, but bad from any perspective: game play design, plot writing, lore consistency, etc. And I realize that I never really got over it, I just got tired of talking about it.

 

[Machine Man 1992]

I don't know that anyone got over it.

I think there was a huge stalemate, when the dust settled last spring/summer. Some people made peace with it, others just moved on. Everyone was tired of talking about it.

It's weird, because a lot of people posted excellent deconstruction videos from months ago on the endings which I never saw, and it has been almost like re-experiencing all of my initial butt-hurt over the endings. Every time I see another reason that the endings are bad, and not bad because they disappointed fans, but bad from any perspective: game play design, plot writing, lore consistency, etc. And I realize that I never really got over it, I just got tired of talking about it.

We shouldn't just "let it go."

This was a Spoony-BETRAYAL-scream offense on Bioware's part, a complete violation of everything they stood for, a stark, unflinching warning of the dangers of hubris. To just let all this go, would be a massive disservice to everyone.

To let it go would imply some level of forgiveness; there can be no forgiveness, not for anything less than a return to the quality of the pre-EA Bioware. This needs to hang over, not just their heads, but the heads of all the corporate apologists who shattered our faith in games journalism field like a mark of shame.

I wish it never had to come to this.

 

[pokkuti]

I kinda disappointed with the ending at first.
But then I realized something.
What if the whole game is an ending?
All the choice you made in the first two game does matter.

Maybe Bioware keep their promises after all.
And none of us gamer didnt get it.

If this is true, then how heart broken do you think Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk might feel.
Kinda sad that entire effort undone with that last ten minute.

*my Eng. suck.

 

[Falsename]

Before the third game in the trilogy was released I asked myself "How will they end the game?". The only thing I could come up with was that there's some kind of prothean device hiding somewhere in the galaxy that would destroy the Reapers. Wipe everything clean (much like that convenient device from Gears of War 3). It wasn't a good idea, that was just what I thought would happen upon seeing no other logical direction to take.

I wasn't really expecting it though. Shouldn't they have thought of something a little less... primitive and unoriginal?

And yeah... the relationships between the characters (and the resolutions of such) were very anti-climactic, no where near the standard I was hoping for. I'm not the type to fall in love with game characters but it's hard not to get invested and some kind of satisfying ending is expected (ending for the character relationships not the actual ending). That was disappointing, though not without it's high points. Some parts were very enjoyable.

HOWEVER! I love Mass Effect 3. First time I played that game I'd been looking forward to it for months, the moment it all started I was involved in that plot more than any I'd been before. Yeah, I'll admit it... I didn't sleep or rest from start to finish.

That moment when the Reapers come down from the skies, the awesome sounds they made (with a good sound system) and the emotions that flood through your body when you leave Earth, when a friend dies or when a hard decision has to be made.

Mass Effect was Golden. Yes, the endings were disappointing, but they were fixed (for the most part). I'm still enjoying the multiplayer when bored but that doesn't mean I wouldn't forgo it for a more thorough single player experience.

One thing I won't forget was how divided everyone was over this whole 'incident' about the ending. Without taking one side or the other, the 'retakers' were slandered and bullied by critics and reviewers alike. Perhaps because they were considered the minority at the time. But everyone quickly shut the hell up when EA declared the 'extended cut'. Perhaps that'll show some to give others with a differing opinion some respect, or atleast be less critical of differing opinions.


TLDR?
Mass Effect 3 is a great game, and while it wasn't up to expectation that can be forgiven. Remember that games don't belong to you, they belong to those creating them. All you can really do is hold on tight and hope whatever you're expecting lives up to the standards you're wishing for. Mass Effect 3's ending fix was a once in a lifetime thing, and it shouldn't open the flood gates to demanding changes to published games. Only because of how great the game was, did we allow ourselves to take 'action'.

Merry Christmas

 

[Uszi]

Heh, you know what made things better for me?

I think it is the Kickstarter stuff I've been throwing my money at since then.

There's something really encouraging about developers eschewing publishers and going to the fans and answering to them. It's giving me a lot of hope for the future.

So my response to all the re-depression from how bad Mass Effect 3 was after re-reading this thread was watching this stuff:

Spoiler: Minecraft: The Story of Mojang. Cool documentary, lots of awesome interviews with cool people, I don't think you have to be a Minecraft fan to necessarily enjoy it.

Spoiler: Double Fine Adventure. Serial documentary following the development of Tim Schafer being a loon, basically.

Spoiler: Godus Kickstarter thing with Peter Molyneux. Molyneux left Lionhead and Microsoft, citing Notch and Minecraft specifically as his inspiration, to start 22 Cans and make shit.

Spoiler: Project Eternity Update vlog things from Josh Sawyer of Obsidian

And then there's also the stuff going on with the Day Z stand alone, which Dean Hall is a hero.

Spoiler: Dean Hall talking about the Day Z stand alone at Eurogamer Expo

So it's encouraging to me that games are still being made and the interest of players are paramount in the production of those games, as opposed to anything EA does now which is purely to maximize corporate profit. EA is just as maximally cynical about game publishing as possible.

 

[Falsename]

Also, I lost respect for 'MovieBob'. Like all respect. Ever since he got on the defensive on EA's behalf his voice became whiny, his analysis of movies became pretty false and unrespectable and honestly.... I can't figure out why he got his job. He's not a critic, he's another man with another opinion about things. His reviews are so varied, concentrating on certain things in one movie and then doing the other way in the next review.

Next time you watch something he puts out... you should be a little more critical of his reviews, rather than accept them. They're not very intelligent IMHO.

 

[crazyrabbits]

If there was one good thing about this whole debacle, it's that the controversy showed gamers exactly which outlets to avoid (due to their terrible handling and backlash against the fans). Kotaku ran a number of articles defending the ending and saying players didn't "get it", even in the face of mounting criticism (even from other publications like Forbes). MovieBob and FilmHulk rambled in favor of the garbage "artistic integrity" theory, while scores of people politely broke down their arguments. Colin Moriarty, Jessica Chobot and IGN had a reputation hit (at least in terms of their online profile) that they haven't been able to shake to date.

As I said earlier in this topic, I had never seen a gaming controversy that led to publications like Forbes and The New Yorker defending the fan backlash and trashing Bioware for their poor tactics, while the "gaming media" (the people you'd think would have the interests of the public at heart) blindly defended the idiocy and downright disingenuous culture at Bioware.

 

[DioWallachia]

We shouldn't just "let it go."

This was a Spoony-BETRAYAL-scream offense on Bioware's part, a complete violation of everything they stood for, a stark, unflinching warning of the dangers of hubris. To just let all this go, would be a massive disservice to everyone.

To let it go would imply some level of forgiveness; there can be no forgiveness, not for anything less than a return to the quality of the pre-EA Bioware. This needs to hang over, not just their heads, but the heads of all the corporate apologists who shattered our faith in games journalism field like a mark of shame.

I wish it never had to come to this.

But if this "tragedy" didnt happened then we wouldnt know who are out real enemies.........and now we know. These game journalist have failed us for the last time, but we need the power of the masses in our side first to MAKE THEM realise their mistake. And i think we should start by clearing our names:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/12/21/while-nra-blames-video-games-during-press-conference-another-mass-shooting-takes-place-in-pennsylvania/

No matter the cost. Even if we have to defend ME3 JUST to drive the point across games are not Brown Notes waitinig to mindfuck our children. The more people we reason with the better and possibly we can even get help to understand games as art once all this PR nightmare ends. We are not going to stab ME3 at every chance like the so called entitled monsters we are, we recognice it suckiness but never its murder simulator tendensies without proof.

We are civilized and logical human beings, goddammit!!


OT:Isnt it ironic that the worst scene of ME3, the forced "i care for diz kid from Earth" trauma that goes against everything pre-stablished from Shep character, is singlehandely the one that shows that you are not playing as a Spycho trying to kill children, and therefore, the most valid defense among many others?

 

[spartandude]

I kinda disappointed with the ending at first.
But then I realized something.
What if the whole game is an ending?
All the choice you made in the first two game does matter.

Maybe Bioware keep their promises after all.
And none of us gamer didnt get it.

well considering the game plays out the exact same way no matter what choices you made, bar some slightly different conversations im still dissapointed and in fact this annoyed me long before the ending

 

[BrionJames]

EAware

EAware...that pretty much sums it up for me. After playing Mass Effect 2, I thought to myself "why is this game trying to appeal to a wider market?" I remember thinking that Bioware was a "good developer" that made RPG's that had good depth to them and appealed to the hero in us all in many of its games. I recently bought and replayed the first Mass Effect and while the combat didn't age well, it's still better than Mass Effect 2 which was basically a action RPG, with dumbed down character customization and skill system. The upgrades for your weapons and armor was massive and while at times an annoyance to sort through, you could see (or at least I could) that in future sequels when they improved on the idea, that it would make for an interesting Science Fiction RPG. Then EA came along and bought Bioware, this is when I believe they sold out. After playing Mass Effect 2, I thought to myself, " I have no interest to play Mass Effect 3, the end boss in this games looked like a giant robotic skeleton and seemed to be a throwaway final boss that had zero effort put into its design or explanation." Remember trying to talk Saren down, then watching him shoot himself in a moment of self-realization of what he had done? To me it seemed like this could only get better, the combat would get refined, the inventory management would be improved upon, and all the things that were done perfectly would remain. Instead they removed all of the things they thought were detracting from the game. All of the equipment options, were boiled down to three slots. Skills were stripped down to a few things, as well as attributes. Sure the dialogue and companion relationship dillemas were still there but even the storyline seemed to be on a heart monitor. I was so disillusioned with what they did to a game that seemed like it could only get better that, I had (and have) no interest in playing the third installment.