I love free speech is considered free as long as it doesn't offend you. God forbid parents have to explain things and tell why a man can marry man... you know what I am so sick of this damn issue I could kill someone.
One Million Moms Want Same-Sex Archie Comic Out of Toys 'R' Us
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
sorry for double post but I live in place where some bigots think that it's okay to kill n******. Wake up and see what the world for it really is, a place filled full of assholes and horrible people.Nabohs said:
At best, this is another shitty excuse for lazy parenting that doesn't actually involving taking responsibility for how you raise your child, but expects the rest of the world to do it for you. C.f. California's failed bid to get videogames classified alongside porn and alcohol.
At worst, this is a subtle implication that they would like to live in a world where they can walk around without any hint of the existence of gay couples. Because if you think a mall is a place where kids shouldn't have to see that kind of thing, you are saying that two men kissing or holding hands in public is, by extension, also wrong.
I am literally going to be dancing in the street the first time gay marriage gets federally recognised in my country (Australia), simply out of spite for all these retarded morons who consider it a sign of the downfall of civilisation. No, I'm not making that up. Google a journalist named Miranda Devine if you will: she implied subtly that lesbian parents were responsible for the British Riots last year.
At worst, this is a subtle implication that they would like to live in a world where they can walk around without any hint of the existence of gay couples. Because if you think a mall is a place where kids shouldn't have to see that kind of thing, you are saying that two men kissing or holding hands in public is, by extension, also wrong.
I am literally going to be dancing in the street the first time gay marriage gets federally recognised in my country (Australia), simply out of spite for all these retarded morons who consider it a sign of the downfall of civilisation. No, I'm not making that up. Google a journalist named Miranda Devine if you will: she implied subtly that lesbian parents were responsible for the British Riots last year.
Not so much. I'm not going to go into the whole thing I did in the Jimquisition thread right now because where I stand isn't really important here, and I've said everyting on the general subject I'm going to for the moment, but I will say this is an issue that literally has the community in nations like the US divided. Globally speaking tolerance is really at an all time low, and trying to force tolerance accross the board on other cultures is one of the reasons Americans are increasingly disliked (among many), basically people don't like it when you come in and tell them their all encompassing desire for ethnic cleansing a certain group that has formed a societal foundation for centuries is wrong and making you stop. Getting involved in something like the old Serbo-Croation War didn't earn the people who did much in the way of PR points with the groups involved and those who are involved in similar activities, and over time incidents like that have been compouding, and well it's a whole differant discussion, simply a point not the focus of what I'm saying here.Crono1973 said:
In general you'll find that there are entire communities full of people that will take the extreme other side of the politics you see here. The left wing "acceptance" (not to be confused with tolerance) brigade has control of most of the mainstream media, and tends to seriously slam on the few mainstream outlets (like Fox) that don't follow the same point of view. Likewise you have things in various extremes ranging from family sites and groups, to church websites, and things like Conservapedia or Stormfront on the other side. Taken cumulatively your dealing with a HUGE amount of people, just as many as are on the other side, but they don't seem as big because they don't have the level of widescale, national platform.
The real outcasts are the ones in the middle like me, who get attacked by both sides, who in my experience wind up being those from civil service, security, and police type forces.
Right now it's prety obvious what side Andy supports, but really this situation hasn't even seen any kind of resolution. Basically we have a complaint made by one group that is just loud enough to be heard, not being a paticularly major force as far as such things go. The guy who runs the comic is of course in support of it, which is no surprise because if he wasn't it wouldn't have been published to begin with.. no big deal. The big question at this point where the sides are going to be drawn and how many people from each side are going to throw down, and what Toys R Us is going to decide to do. From the perspective of the guys at Toys R Us, they are probably in the middle of a giant headache right now because there is really no way this can end well for them because either way a lot of people could wind up deciding not to shop on their store.
I imagine the end result is going to be a "do nothing" one. That is to say that Toys R Us will figure they have already stocked the comic and won't pull it. That's a pain in the nards and makes a clear statement that can be referred to for years to come. They will however be more careful and try to avoid stocking material like that again, as a business they want to avoid anything contreversial at all. So you'll probably have liberals claiming victory, and the guys at Toys R Us pointing out to constumers who were concerned that they are being more careful and the lack of contreversial merchandise on sale.
Really the big winner here is going to be Archie comics, I wouldn't even be surprised if they created the contreversy somehow by "tipping" this group in a way that would rally up all the "moms". I wasn't aware of this event before this happened, and really I'd imagine plenty of other people weren't either. Tons of people are probably running out to be what will eventually either be a "historic" comic for bravely dealign with the subject matter in a positive light at a time with a lot of opposition, or what will be equally collectable as being a comic that supporting a social point of view that failed and are worthwhile because they show something contrary to the trends that prevailed. There is absolutly no way he's going to lose out here in the long run, and really the publishing industry for comics and such has proven it can recover from political missteps in the past, in the end it's all about pushing the title, and contreversy does exactly that.
That's what I think at any rate. If those who opposed things like this were that small in number or "outcasts" you wouldn't see this kind of outcry to begin with. A group like "million moms" wouldn't exist or try and engage in political crusades, and baiting them wouldn't be a good way of generating contrversy. I'd imagine it started with the owners of Archie comics going "Hmmm, it seems our new comic book intentionally designed to provoke a response and sales frenzy has failed to generate the intended attention and contreversy. Perhaps people simply have not noticed... we need to draw attention... ahh I know exactly the hive of bees we can provoke. We sold a bunch of these to Toys R Us? Perfect... perfect".
See in end Archie comics, is just a comic company, they are out to make money and draw attention. This isn't really any differant than the whole "Gen 13" bit with the lesbian oil scene between Rainmaker and Freefall that helped get the attention that put the series on the map back in the day. It's actually a less extreme exploitation of basically the same thing, directly at baiting a response from exactly the same groups.
No flames please, and no discussion about the nature of homosexuality or whatever, we've already been down that path in another thread just recently, it's going nowhere, and what I'm saying here has nothing to do with that aspect of things.
I'm more upset at the fact that there's reading material in a toy store, honestly it's no wonder everyone hates this country.
The notion that children "ought not be exposed" to reality has always completely baffled me. Fairy Tales were scary (not the modern, watered-down tripe, but the real deal in all its nasty, violent glory), precisely because our ancestors knew the world was weird, full of all kinds of things, both wonderful and frightening, foreign, unusual, whatever, and the faster their children acclimated to it all, the better off everyone would be.
I am somebody's dad. I love my son. My son loves me, and trusts me. If he has a question, I answer it like an adult and I make sure he understands. I don't hide things from him because I think it will "protect" him. I know it won't. I explain it like a rational, reasonable person. See, when you're not full of hate and fear, and you care enough to know what you're talking about, you don't have to hide things from your kids. You can speak to them like a human being, which will in turn, teach them to trust in their own humanity. Amazing how it works.
And here's the bad news for the Million Moms and anybody who still subscribes to their backward, outmoded "thinking." As it becomes increasingly harder to hide the truth and water down reality, people will be forced more and more to deal with it like adult human beings. As that becomes more and more so, tolerance will show itself to be the only real option. Because I'll tell you right now, as crappy as people can be, they will not long tolerate fascism. And fascism is what happens when some people have rights and others are corralled up and marginalized.
Yes, as humans, we tend to take one step back for every two we take forward. But we do get forward, eventually, and a connected, wired world is now watching each other's progress. I quote Mr. Gabriel: "The eyes of the world are watching now. Watching now."
Unless taught to, our children won't hate. And as they move amongst other children who do not hate, hate will slowly die. I won't pretend it will completely die, or die too soon. But it will fail, in time. I quote The Professor now: "Even darkness must pass."
I am somebody's dad. I love my son. My son loves me, and trusts me. If he has a question, I answer it like an adult and I make sure he understands. I don't hide things from him because I think it will "protect" him. I know it won't. I explain it like a rational, reasonable person. See, when you're not full of hate and fear, and you care enough to know what you're talking about, you don't have to hide things from your kids. You can speak to them like a human being, which will in turn, teach them to trust in their own humanity. Amazing how it works.
And here's the bad news for the Million Moms and anybody who still subscribes to their backward, outmoded "thinking." As it becomes increasingly harder to hide the truth and water down reality, people will be forced more and more to deal with it like adult human beings. As that becomes more and more so, tolerance will show itself to be the only real option. Because I'll tell you right now, as crappy as people can be, they will not long tolerate fascism. And fascism is what happens when some people have rights and others are corralled up and marginalized.
Yes, as humans, we tend to take one step back for every two we take forward. But we do get forward, eventually, and a connected, wired world is now watching each other's progress. I quote Mr. Gabriel: "The eyes of the world are watching now. Watching now."
Unless taught to, our children won't hate. And as they move amongst other children who do not hate, hate will slowly die. I won't pretend it will completely die, or die too soon. But it will fail, in time. I quote The Professor now: "Even darkness must pass."
This isn't a jab at you, don't worry. I'm just quoting that line. Everytime I would hear people say "Think of the children!" and then do atrocious things, it'd make my overall opinion of Humanity sink a bit lower. I understand the concept, but it's like saying "I was thinking of the future!" while throwing stones at minorities, or trying to blame video games when some random kid goes postal; and in the case of the later, it's frequently the parents who are to blame.Zydrate said:
I really wish people would stop using that as an excuse. Why not say the truth? "I'm an intolerant bastard, get your sinful practices out of my god-fearing sight!" Of course, NOW I'm just generalizing which isn't any better.
Sometimes I find it difficult to make my point cause I have such a hard time saying what I want to say in a straightforwards way.
The problem with most parents is, they want to be perceived as protectors, but they are going out of their way to over-protect their children. Thankfully, this trend is fading away. Slowly, but fading nonetheless.
OT: Yeah, so that's kind of crazy of Actually-Far-Less-Than-A-Million Moms. Good on Toys 'R' Us and the Archie comic guys for sticking to their guns.
HAVE I MENTIONED THAT I HAVE A BALANCED OPINION AND AM IN THE CENTRE OF THIS DEBATE TODAY?!?![/HEADING][/color] /Fumblemore voice
[color][HEADING=2]HELLO THREAD, IT'S ME, THERUMANCER!!Therumancer said:
HAVE I MENTIONED THAT I HAVE A BALANCED OPINION AND AM IN THE CENTRE OF THIS DEBATE TODAY?!?![/HEADING][/color] /Fumblemore voice
....you do realize that I would just be presenting an argument that I don't believe anymore, right?Rainboq said:
yes i can and now you know why i stopped taking groups such as 1,000,000 moms seriously along along time ago.Adam Jensen said:
[JOKING]
So I guess it's okay to let perverts into Toys r'us now, so they can masturbate to their homosexual fantasy's content, ejaculating all over the comics. That's what this will lead to. Mark my words. Next Archie will be marrying a Muslim dog, because bestiality is right around the corner!!! I personally blame Obama. If Our Dear Leader Santorum were in office, he'd never let filth like this loose to our children. I say we secede from those goddamned liberal sodomites! Take back Washington! Fox News!!! Bibles!
[/JOKING]
PS- I felt I had to put that, or 90% of people here would not get it.
So I guess it's okay to let perverts into Toys r'us now, so they can masturbate to their homosexual fantasy's content, ejaculating all over the comics. That's what this will lead to. Mark my words. Next Archie will be marrying a Muslim dog, because bestiality is right around the corner!!! I personally blame Obama. If Our Dear Leader Santorum were in office, he'd never let filth like this loose to our children. I say we secede from those goddamned liberal sodomites! Take back Washington! Fox News!!! Bibles!
[/JOKING]
PS- I felt I had to put that, or 90% of people here would not get it.
There is no evidence to suggest that exposure to homosexuality at a young age has the ability to increase the tendency for kids to turn that way. See for example the American Psychological Association's statement on Sexual Orientation Parent and Children:Akalabeth said:
http://www.apa.org/about/governance/council/policy/parenting.aspx
However, that is not why I'm posting, I'm posting because of this idea that if homosexuality were accepted, it would be harmful to society because birth rates would fall. (Though some people think that reducing our population would be an overall good thing rather than harmful).
Please note: Homosexuals are not sterile. They are still able to procreate. And as the link above notes: 33% of lesbian households include children and 22% of gay male households include children. You can be gay and still either get or get other people pregnant. Gay people can and do procreate. Homosexual behavior is present in the animal kingdom and bonobos and all the other animals that engage in same-sex happy times haven't ceased to exist because of it.