Our Covid Response

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
8,099
3,541
118
Country
United Kingdom
Where? You've given me a source that just shows that people in risk groups and immunocompromised should get boosters. Where is there any data or any doctor that has said the average person needs a booster?
“if protection from disease relies at any level on circulating neutralizing antibodies, then, yes, the longer out you are from natural infection or from vaccination the worse you will be”.

"Researchers at Public Health England posted a preprint this week detailing a modest but appreciable dip in vaccine effectiveness against hospital admission and death."

"Getting more people vaccinated is the single most effective intervention to keep transmission rates low, but any bump in vaccine effectiveness can help as well."

You've already been given all of these quotes. You then gave a few clear misreadings and defaulted back to denying you'd been given them.

This plan wouldn't work by the way.
I have zero respect for your opinion on whether or not it would work.
 

Phoenixmgs

The Muse of Fate
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
7,400
589
118
w/ M'Kraan Crystal
Gender
Male
“if protection from disease relies at any level on circulating neutralizing antibodies, then, yes, the longer out you are from natural infection or from vaccination the worse you will be”.

"Researchers at Public Health England posted a preprint this week detailing a modest but appreciable dip in vaccine effectiveness against hospital admission and death."

"Getting more people vaccinated is the single most effective intervention to keep transmission rates low, but any bump in vaccine effectiveness can help as well."

You've already been given all of these quotes. You then gave a few clear misreadings and defaulted back to denying you'd been given them.



I have zero respect for your opinion on whether or not it would work.
1) Name one other viral infection we care about circulating antibodies to provide protection. What's your circulating measles antibodies at right now? Maybe you should get a measles booster.

Also, you purposefully decide to edit out the very beginning of that because this is how it starts:
Should that immune memory give durable protection against severe disease?

For the most part, it should.


2) That comes from your main UK study which showed anyone not in high risk groups that the vaccine was still working just fine for severe disease. That sentence only makes it sound bad (using adjectives like modest and appreciable that the actual study doesn't use) vs actually describing the data truthfully.

3) That conclusion comes from over a year old paper at this point that uses pie-in-the-sky modeling.
We operate under the assumption that vaccine efficacy not only impacts disease manifestation but also blocks transmission at the same rate, which is a reasonable assumption based on previous vaccine performance but has not yet been demonstrated.
That is not true.

I even asked the 1st time you posted that how old is the source (that you never answered) because that was thinking that's over a year old at this point. You're pushing stuff that's not backed by any current data whatsoever.

How old is that source to still think vaccination is the single most important thing in keeping infections down?
---

Explain to me how you contact trace something that spreads before you have symptoms, that is airborne, and spreads super easy? Sure, in theory, with a vast vast vast amount of resources dedicated to that, you might be able to. But the amount of resources required to do that is far far far greater than anyone would be willing to dedicate that to. It's just a logistical fucking nightmare that probably isn't even possible to be done because over 99% of the population would not want it to begin with.
 

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
8,099
3,541
118
Country
United Kingdom
1) Name one other viral infection we care about circulating antibodies to provide protection. What's your circulating measles antibodies at right now? Maybe you should get a measles booster.

Also, you purposefully decide to edit out the very beginning of that because this is how it starts:
Should that immune memory give durable protection against severe disease?

For the most part, it should.


2) That comes from your main UK study which showed anyone not in high risk groups that the vaccine was still working just fine for severe disease. That sentence only makes it sound bad (using adjectives like modest and appreciable that the actual study doesn't use) vs actually describing the data truthfully.

3) That conclusion comes from over a year old paper at this point that uses pie-in-the-sky modeling.
We operate under the assumption that vaccine efficacy not only impacts disease manifestation but also blocks transmission at the same rate, which is a reasonable assumption based on previous vaccine performance but has not yet been demonstrated.
That is not true.
Yes, I'm well aware of your ability to come up with excuses to dismiss or disregard whatever quotes I put forward.

You asked for quotes, I provided them.

Explain to me how you contact trace something that spreads before you have symptoms, that is airborne, and spreads super easy? Sure, in theory, with a vast vast vast amount of resources dedicated to that, you might be able to. But the amount of resources required to do that is far far far greater than anyone would be willing to dedicate that to. It's just a logistical fucking nightmare that probably isn't even possible to be done because over 99% of the population would not want it to begin with.
Most of the population believes we locked down too late, and supported the vaccination drive quite enthusiastically, so I'm not inclined to believe you're in tune with their wishes.

Contact-tracing is never going to catch everything-- and nor does it have to. It is one aspect of the public health response, and does not need to be watertight. A system which identifies most other contacts of a positive case present at an indoor setting, like a workplace or a restaurant, is not massively costly and is well within our means for handling a global pandemic. The UK government instead chose to outsource it to a personal friend of a government minister, with no experience of the work.
 

Phoenixmgs

The Muse of Fate
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
7,400
589
118
w/ M'Kraan Crystal
Gender
Male
Yes, I'm well aware of your ability to come up with excuses to dismiss or disregard whatever quotes I put forward.

You asked for quotes, I provided them.



Most of the population believes we locked down too late, and supported the vaccination drive quite enthusiastically, so I'm not inclined to believe you're in tune with their wishes.

Contact-tracing is never going to catch everything-- and nor does it have to. It is one aspect of the public health response, and does not need to be watertight. A system which identifies most other contacts of a positive case present at an indoor setting, like a workplace or a restaurant, is not massively costly and is well within our means for handling a global pandemic. The UK government instead chose to outsource it to a personal friend of a government minister, with no experience of the work.
But you provide poor studies. The one study is literally based on modeling that made massive assumptions (that we know today is just wrong). It's not real world data. It's also a year old and nobody thinks that anymore. It would like me trying to argue to you that covid is not airborne but droplet based using old articles to prove my stance.

We did lockdown too late if you are trying to control it like some island nations were able to. 20% of NYC was infected by like April or May 2020. Covid was way too spread out in the US even in March 2020 to have done much of anything about it. And everyone but Fauci seemed to realize that because at C2E2 in Feb 2020, everyone there knew covid was already going around, it was basic common sense. Covid spreads so fast and easily that half-assing contract tracing isn't going to do much. And what are you even going to do to people who were in contact with a covid positive person, make them stay home for a few days to a week to make sure they don't have it? That is not feasible to do. I was literally sitting next to someone (about 3 weeks back) that was covid positive the next day at work and am I supposed to quarantine because of that? Because I never got covid from that. I'm just supposed to waste a few days to a week to make sure I have it or don't have it? Because that is gonna happen a lot to lots of people, it's not feasible to run society in that manner.

Every common cold operates that way.
Yes, common cold infections are only stopped by circulating antibodies (which I mentioned a few posts back), but we don't actually care what the antibody levels are. We don't get a booster shot every couple months to stop the common cold do we?
 

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
4,931
776
118
Country
USA
Yes, common cold infections are only stopped by circulating antibodies (which I mentioned a few posts back), but we don't actually care what the antibody levels are. We don't get a booster shot every couple months to stop the common cold do we?
Correct.
 

Phoenixmgs

The Muse of Fate
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
7,400
589
118
w/ M'Kraan Crystal
Gender
Male
You have zero ability to evaluate or properly read studies, and you derive your perspectives from YouTube videos. I don't credit your opinion.
What youtube video did I use to "debunk" your study? It's over a year old and literally nobody thinks that is true anymore... And if you just actually read how they got the conclusion, you'd see it was based on a model that is based on an assumption that we know isn't true today. You can do the work yourself.
 

Phoenixmgs

The Muse of Fate
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
7,400
589
118
w/ M'Kraan Crystal
Gender
Male
Already a known (and unknown) thing for like any viral infection...
Even before COVID-19, viral infections were known to cause long-lasting cognitive impairments; it is well established that viral infections significantly increase the world’s burden of neurological diseases. While there’s no consensus yet on the exact cause of COVID-19’s cognitive impacts, its effects on various organs can be catastrophic, which means there are many ways the disease could be affecting the brain.

Also...

Good thing I don't take any medicine. That's not some lame sarcasm either because I've never had a drug prescribed to me in my life nor do I even have any OTC drugs in my house, not even tylenol or advil.
 

Kyrian007

Nemo saltat sobrius
Legacy
Mar 9, 2010
2,352
411
88
Kansas
Country
U.S.A.
Gender
Male
Also...

Good thing I don't take any medicine. That's not some lame sarcasm either because I've never had a drug prescribed to me in my life nor do I even have any OTC drugs in my house, not even tylenol or advil.
Sourced secondarily from a supplement pill mill website. Some of the most predatory scams of the grey market "alternative" health market... are supplements. Not going to worry much about the advil in my cabinet.
 

Phoenixmgs

The Muse of Fate
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
7,400
589
118
w/ M'Kraan Crystal
Gender
Male
Sourced secondarily from a supplement pill mill website. Some of the most predatory scams of the grey market "alternative" health market... are supplements. Not going to worry much about the advil in my cabinet.
The point is normal everyday things are linked to rather bad things as well. It's been theorized that chronic fatigue syndrome is linked to the flu for example. So then, why would covid being linked to XYZ be any more concerning than say the flu that is also linked to XYZ? It's just that covid is always in the news with all these stories and the flu isn't.
 

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Sep 16, 2014
6,527
4,583
118
Country
United States
The point is normal everyday things are linked to rather bad things as well. It's been theorized that chronic fatigue syndrome is linked to the flu for example. So then, why would covid being linked to XYZ be any more concerning than say the flu that is also linked to XYZ? It's just that covid is always in the news with all these stories and the flu isn't.
...my dude, your ability for threat assessment is whacked out. If the flu has one bad knock on effect, and covid has a second bad knock on effect, then even if they're equal in danger getting both means you have 2 knock on effects instead of 1. That's why it's extra concerning. Because there's now more bad shit floating around.

For some reason you have this thought that if something is <x> dangerous and another thing is <x-1> dangerous, you should just discount <x-1> entirely instead of viewing it as <2x-1>

Like, I get that you've lived a massively charmed life as far as illness and injury goes, but that's still hugely cavalier. And outright just believing the first wellness bunk you read is exceptionally dangerous.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Phoenixmgs

The Muse of Fate
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
7,400
589
118
w/ M'Kraan Crystal
Gender
Male
...my dude, your ability for threat assessment is whacked out. If the flu has one bad knock on effect, and covid has a second bad knock on effect, then even if they're equal in danger getting both means you have 2 knock on effects instead of 1. That's why it's extra concerning. Because there's now more bad shit floating around.

For some reason you have this thought that if something is <x> dangerous and another thing is <x-1> dangerous, you should just discount <x-1> entirely instead of viewing it as <2x-1>

Like, I get that you've lived a massively charmed life as far as illness and injury goes, but that's still hugely cavalier. And outright just believing the first wellness bunk you read is exceptionally dangerous.
You're talking about that I don't know risk assessment? I can't even get Agema to admit wearing masks outside is pointless let alone inside. Nobody knows the risk of any of this stuff. The flu has been theorized as the reason for chronic fatigue syndrome (which could just be basically long flu like long covid), nobody is sure on how it happens, same thing with covid, nor do we even know the rates of how often it happens. I'm guessing it's overall caused by a weaken immune system and you should probably focus on improving that vs being worried about catching covid or the flu.
 

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Sep 16, 2014
6,527
4,583
118
Country
United States
You're talking about that I don't know risk assessment? I can't even get Agema to admit wearing masks outside is pointless let alone inside. Nobody knows the risk of any of this stuff. The flu has been theorized as the reason for chronic fatigue syndrome (which could just be basically long flu like long covid), nobody is sure on how it happens, same thing with covid, nor do we even know the rates of how often it happens. I'm guessing it's overall caused by a weaken immune system and you should probably focus on improving that vs being worried about catching covid or the flu.
They got brain scans and cognitive tests, my dude.
 

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Sep 16, 2014
6,527
4,583
118
Country
United States
What does that have anything to do with what I said...? Where was I denying it was a thing? I said nobody knows what actually triggers it or how often it happens.
Be a hell of a fucking coincidence. And with no current evidence pointing towards coincidental factors, caution is a good thing
 

Phoenixmgs

The Muse of Fate
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
7,400
589
118
w/ M'Kraan Crystal
Gender
Male
Be a hell of a fucking coincidence. And with no current evidence pointing towards coincidental factors, caution is a good thing
We know the same thing happens with other viral infections and haven't figured it out there either. One of the top theories is a haywire immune system, which makes sense because people hospitalized with covid are hospitalized because of their immune system and not because of the actual covid infection (that's why steroids are given as treatment). So the best thing is to do things that help (or at least not hurt) your immune system yet nobody is doing that nor is anyone one telling them to. You can be, you know, proactive but it's pretty hard to find that kinda stuff among all the fear porn. What caution are you gonna take, how are you gonna avoid covid? It's like telling someone not to catch a cold. And all the caution we did do to avoid covid (that obviously didn't work) has now caused excess DEATHS (not covid related) to be up about 14%. So you wanna be cautious against something that isn't death while increasing your actual risk of death? And I'm the one that can't do risk assessments... Plus, I already know that covid for me goes away faster than a head cold and I'm supposed to be cautious against something weaker than a head cold? Who doesn't know how covid affects them personally at this point to know whether it's something you should actually be cautious against or not?
 

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Sep 16, 2014
6,527
4,583
118
Country
United States
We know the same thing happens with other viral infections and haven't figured it out there either. One of the top theories is a haywire immune system, which makes sense because people hospitalized with covid are hospitalized because of their immune system and not because of the actual covid infection (that's why steroids are given as treatment). So the best thing is to do things that help (or at least not hurt) your immune system yet nobody is doing that nor is anyone one telling them to. You can be, you know, proactive but it's pretty hard to find that kinda stuff among all the fear porn. What caution are you gonna take, how are you gonna avoid covid? It's like telling someone not to catch a cold. And all the caution we did do to avoid covid (that obviously didn't work) has now caused excess DEATHS (not covid related) to be up about 14%. So you wanna be cautious against something that isn't death while increasing your actual risk of death? And I'm the one that can't do risk assessments... Plus, I already know that covid for me goes away faster than a head cold and I'm supposed to be cautious against something weaker than a head cold? Who doesn't know how covid affects them personally at this point to know whether it's something you should actually be cautious against or not?
Chill, Nurgle
 
  • Like
Reactions: Seanchaidh