Our Covid Response

Phoenixmgs

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Good thread on the supposed rise of cardiac events from the covid vaccination
And the fact several countries have stopped recommending mRNA vaccines to males under a certain age is based on absolutely nothing? And the cost-benefit analysis that showed the vax is more dangerous to certain groups than actually getting covid?

Your driving is so bad you telegraph to other road users to give you a wide berth. "Park up safely for a bit lads," they say, "it's that guy who thinks he can see the future when it rains."

I've been driving for just short of 25 years, and I also have a motorbike licence (and I can drive a reach truck, though haven't for many years). My record is better than yours (same lack of own-fault accidents, driving for longer, more vehicles), and that still only makes me an average driver.
Again, you guys don't get it, I'm the one assuming everyone is gonna do something stupid and I plan ahead for it. I turn per the rules of the road for example when no one else does. Being in the lowest risk tier is not "average", I even don't put collision coverage on my car insurance because I know I'm not gonna hit anyone, waste of money. Everyone I know early on thinks most of my methods (for anything) aren't the best but over time, they see the results and call me an alien and robot like I've never taken any kind of pain medication in my life for pain nor have I ever had a headache or allergy or heartburn. You'd assume that was I was bullshitting you if you just met me. My one friend's former girlfriend thought I was the biggest bullshitter until knowing me for like a year. It took my boss a couple years to see my results as I do certain IT things that are big "no-nos" but when used properly, they work more often than not, though he still won't admit certain things are "ok" for plausible deniability.

No, we don't. Nobody here said masks alone were enough. You're just hurling a lazy strawman to avoid addressing the fact that the surge in infection in China provides absolutely zero evidence for your bizarre, anti-scientific aversion to masks (and other basic hygiene and safety measures).
They why is this garbage model posted in the following thread from a user in support of masks?

Their models estimated that 80 to 90% masking would eventually eliminate the disease. They also looked at an empirical dataset, finding a very strong correlation between early universal masking and successful suppression of daily case growth rates and/or reduction from peak daily case growth rates, as predicted by their theoretical simulations.

That's fantasy land bullshit that has no basis whatsoever in reality.
 

Silvanus

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They why is this garbage model posted in the following thread from a user in support of masks?
Nothing there says masks alone would be enough to contain the pandemic. I'm really not interested in yet another back-and-forth about some study, and your own complete ineptitude at critical analysis.

So we're still at: nobody said masks alone would contain the pandemic, that was a strawman; and therefore the surge in China doesn't provide any evidence whatsoever against the claimed efficacy of masks.
 
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Ag3ma

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They really don't.
I think we're talking about different types of drivers; plus of course the driving bad habits of people around where you are may be different from mine.

If I'm not maintaining safe distances, how have I been driving for over 20 years and never rear-ended someone?
Because being a shit driver doesn't guarantee that you will have an accident where you are legally at fault, much like smoking 40 a day doesn't guarantee you die of lung cancer.

How is paying attention to, you know, the fucking road being clever?
It's not, it's basic driving. What's trying to pass yourself off as clever is slagging off so many other drivers (because belittling others is effectively just a way of making yourself feel superior) and boasting about all the things you think you know that you also think everyone else is apparently too dumb to think of.

The point of maintaining safe distances is to give us reaction time if things go wrong. In some crashes, things go wrong so quickly and suddenly that even full attention won't be enough if you don't have room. Sometimes, our attention slips (mostly without us even noticing). And sometimes, we just make mistakes. Rules of the road such as safe distances and speed limits exist to give us decent margins of error to help avoid worst outcomes when something goes wrong. If you're lucky enough never to have experienced a major problem, that's what it is: luck.

I've never been at fault in an accident either, I just don't delude myself I'm sort of motoring ubermensch.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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And the fact several countries have stopped recommending mRNA vaccines to males under a certain age is based on absolutely nothing? And the cost-benefit analysis that showed the vax is more dangerous to certain groups than actually getting covid?
Please show me how the covid vaccines causes hot tub drownings
 

Cheetodust

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like I've never taken any kind of pain medication in my life for pain nor have I ever had a headache or allergy or heartburn.
😂😂Just the bestest most special little soldier. The reason everyone thinks you're bullshitting all the time is you can't go a minute without making some bizarre flex. This thread is about covid and you somehow interjected your driving skills for like no reason other than to show off how smort you truly are and how us mere mortals just can't comprehend your brilliance. Now to prove your point on how uniquely brilliant you are we have you bragging that you never get headaches out of literally fucking nowhere. You are an endless source of entertainment and I thank you for it.
 

Vicofthevoid

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😂😂Just the bestest most special little soldier. The reason everyone thinks you're bullshitting all the time is you can't go a minute without making some bizarre flex. This thread is about covid and you somehow interjected your driving skills for like no reason other than to show off how smort you truly are and how us mere mortals just can't comprehend your brilliance. Now to prove your point on how uniquely brilliant you are we have you bragging that you never get headaches out of literally fucking nowhere. You are an endless source of entertainment and I thank you for it.
I just find myself reading every one of those posts waiting for the inevitable "and then everybody clapped."
 

Casual Shinji

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😂😂Just the bestest most special little soldier. The reason everyone thinks you're bullshitting all the time is you can't go a minute without making some bizarre flex. This thread is about covid and you somehow interjected your driving skills for like no reason other than to show off how smort you truly are and how us mere mortals just can't comprehend your brilliance. Now to prove your point on how uniquely brilliant you are we have you bragging that you never get headaches out of literally fucking nowhere. You are an endless source of entertainment and I thank you for it.
I never have headaches either, cuz the second I get one he's like 'Oh shit, it's Casual Shinji, let's get outta here!'

bald_uniformed-muscle_pimp-smoking-cigar-shirtless-smokepimp-olb-archive-e1630322841994.jpg

Yeah, you better run, headache.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Anecdotal mask story, my obsessive mask wearing might've helped prevent my coworkers catching covid through incidental contact with me when I was very sick at work last Wednesday.

Like, masks don't help with prolonged contact, but my job doesn't typically have prolonged contact between people
 
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Gordon_4

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Anecdotal mask story, my obsessive mask wearing might've helped prevent my coworkers catching covid through incidental contact with me when I was very sick at work last Wednesday.

Like, masks don't help with prolonged contact, but my job doesn't typically have prolonged contact between people
There’s a saying I’ve heard, “Security is not a product, it’s a process”. I imagine that harm prevention is much the same: the mask is not the silver bullet, it’s one cog. It interconnects with general hygiene, social distance and risk management. One part of a whole.
 

Seanchaidh

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If we're to see the nigh-magical idea that "natural selection will necessarily make endemic COVID (yet) more transmissible and less dangerous over time" that some people spout become possible, it'll actually require people stop spreading the very dangerous COVID variants we have right now. Because it's already very transmissible. It doesn't need much help in that regard. And the danger it poses hardly impacts its transmission, especially when people are even going so far as to intentionally contract the disease in order ludicrously to achieve 'natural immunity'. As well, and perhaps more importantly simply by population, people are being forced by the pressures of market-driven labor paired with commodified necessities to work while sick. In what universe does this give us selection pressure towards less dangerous COVID variants driving out the more dangerous ones?

Instead, since we seem determined to rely on vaccines only, what we're going to get is vaccine-resistant COVID. Well, a new vaccine for a new COVID will be another profit-making opportunity at least.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Nothing there says masks alone would be enough to contain the pandemic. I'm really not interested in yet another back-and-forth about some study, and your own complete ineptitude at critical analysis.

So we're still at: nobody said masks alone would contain the pandemic, that was a strawman; and therefore the surge in China doesn't provide any evidence whatsoever against the claimed efficacy of masks.
We also still don't have anything that states masks have literally any efficacy but you still say they do something.

Because being a shit driver doesn't guarantee that you will have an accident where you are legally at fault, much like smoking 40 a day doesn't guarantee you die of lung cancer.

It's not, it's basic driving. What's trying to pass yourself off as clever is slagging off so many other drivers (because belittling others is effectively just a way of making yourself feel superior) and boasting about all the things you think you know that you also think everyone else is apparently too dumb to think of.

The point of maintaining safe distances is to give us reaction time if things go wrong. In some crashes, things go wrong so quickly and suddenly that even full attention won't be enough if you don't have room. Sometimes, our attention slips (mostly without us even noticing). And sometimes, we just make mistakes. Rules of the road such as safe distances and speed limits exist to give us decent margins of error to help avoid worst outcomes when something goes wrong. If you're lucky enough never to have experienced a major problem, that's what it is: luck.

I've never been at fault in an accident either, I just don't delude myself I'm sort of motoring ubermensch.
You're literally belittling me as being a shit driver without any proof of being a shit driver.

I never claimed or implied it was clever. I've stated many times that driving well has nothing to do with some "l33t" driving skills, it's about paying attention and thus why I asked a question that's about paying attention (that you won't find the answer on Google either) vs doing some advanced driving maneuver. You don't think some guy hasn't braked hard in front of me unexpectedly before? I drive at distances that I know I can stop at if need be. Just because I know the recommendations are overly safe doesn't mean I drive at unsafe distances. And stuff like speed limits on a curve are there usually not for the vehicle you're driving but a truck and as a normal car you can go faster than a truck but if you put the speed limit at what a car can do, you'd have trucks going too fast on curves. Funny thing is you can actually get people really mad at you for actually following the rules of the road. Just turning properly will get people super mad at you and honking at you a lot.


Please show me how the covid vaccines causes hot tub drownings
Huh?

Anecdotal mask story, my obsessive mask wearing might've helped prevent my coworkers catching covid through incidental contact with me when I was very sick at work last Wednesday.

Like, masks don't help with prolonged contact, but my job doesn't typically have prolonged contact between people
And until there's actually evidence that masks work, you might as well say the fact you wore like a blue shirt may have prevented coworkers catching covid. Isn't like not going to work when very sick the far smarter thing to do than going in and wearing a mask?

If we're to see the nigh-magical idea that "natural selection will necessarily make endemic COVID (yet) more transmissible and less dangerous over time" that some people spout become possible, it'll actually require people stop spreading the very dangerous COVID variants we have right now. Because it's already very transmissible. It doesn't need much help in that regard. And the danger it poses hardly impacts its transmission, especially when people are even going so far as to intentionally contract the disease in order ludicrously to achieve 'natural immunity'. As well, and perhaps more importantly simply by population, people are being forced by the pressures of market-driven labor paired with commodified necessities to work while sick. In what universe does this give us selection pressure towards less dangerous COVID variants driving out the more dangerous ones?

Instead, since we seem determined to rely on vaccines only, what we're going to get is vaccine-resistant COVID. Well, a new vaccine for a new COVID will be another profit-making opportunity at least.
What variant was actually been shown to be more dangerous? There's a difference between not working for a few days when sick and telling people they can't work for 2 weeks (the original ridiculous "recommendation"). Then, it's gonna take a real fucking long time to get a vaccine resistant strain of covid since the flu mutates so much faster and we still have flu vaccines... Also, no data has ever shown most people require a single covid booster to improve clinical outcomes.


It's just a cold, you guys

Uhh... And what data is their that covid causes those long-term symptoms at any greater amount than the flu or any other viral infection? Because there isn't any data stating that.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Shocker, data was withheld FDA advisors on the bivalent boosters. Apparently human data that the new booster didn't even lower infections vs the normal booster wasn't good enough to show advisors but fucking weak-ass mouse data was "better". Paul Offit is pretty mad about this and this is why the top 2 directors of the FDA quit during the 1st round of booster recommendations. But you guys think the science is being followed 100% when the US recommendations are not like any other peer country's recommendations because most countries follow objective science vs injecting politics into it. Paul Offit also said the normal mechanisms for the bivalent booster doesn't actually make sense that it would be any better, looks like he was right.

---


There's a ton of nuance in the vaccines and whether people should get them. But you all like to ignore that and still be on the "one size fits all" drum for covid vaccines. Also, funny how all the people I link to usually end up being right in the long run. Like Marty Makary way back when the vaccines 1st came out didn't get his 2nd dose until 3 months later because that made the most scientific sense at the time even though the recommendations were not that. Funny how other countries are telling people to space out doses to reduce myocarditis risk.
 

Ag3ma

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You're literally belittling me as being a shit driver without any proof of being a shit driver.
Dude, you told us that you don't maintain a safe stopping distance in wet weather, contrary to just about every driving safety guide in existence. How do you think that's going to end up?

"I'm special and think I know better" doesn't cut it as a good explanation why you're right and safety guides are not.

Also, funny how all the people I link to usually end up being right in the long run. Like Marty Makary way back when the vaccines 1st came out didn't get his 2nd dose until 3 months later because that made the most scientific sense at the time even though the recommendations were not that.
I love how you just selectively remember things to claim you are right.

The original published advice for the vaccines was a three month gap, because that's the standard technique and the basis that the companies did their trials. We all knew that. It was accelerated to a shorter time because there was also evidence that a smaller gap would convey significantly improved immunity anyway, which was more desirable for the vulnerable whilst the disease was rampant. We had a long discussion about whether it was right to go for the shorter latency on this forum. And lo and behold, at a societal level, the shorter latency turned out to be a good decision.

Marty Makary isn't worth a rat's fart in this matter. He's got nothing terribly interesting or novel to say, he's just someone you kept banging on about and want to pretend is important for no other reason that you quoted him.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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It's just a cold, you guys

Well, that *would* explain my years long, near constant ear inflammation. A regular ear infection would've cleared up on it's own months ago
The data used for the big Died Suddenly infographic includes many, many cases of people dying from sudden cardiac arrests caused by things which are definitely not vaccine related, such as drowning in a hot tub. You should probably read the thread.
And until there's actually evidence that masks work, you might as well say the fact you wore like a blue shirt may have prevented coworkers catching covid. Isn't like not going to work when very sick the far smarter thing to do than going in and wearing a mask?
Yes, but as the saying goes, stupid people don't get colds. I just figured I had a sinus infection, and that fever was just my roommate setting the thermostat too high when I was sleeping, and the chills were because it's cold at 3am in Montana.

I am not a terribly clever person, which is why I rely so much on experts and consensus instead of placing my bets on the lone genius challenging the entire establishment.

Of course, it's common sense that me wearing a mask keeps droplets near and on me instead of on my coworkers. Like, it's *already* covering my mouth
 

Silvanus

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We also still don't have anything that states masks have literally any efficacy but you still say they do something.
Yes, we do, but this is beside the point we're actually discussing right now.

Nobody here said masks alone would be enough to contain the pandemic. You insinuated they did. Just fucking acknowledge that rather than trying to pivoting to other endless diversions, and we can move on.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Dude, you told us that you don't maintain a safe stopping distance in wet weather, contrary to just about every driving safety guide in existence. How do you think that's going to end up?

"I'm special and think I know better" doesn't cut it as a good explanation why you're right and safety guides are not.



I love how you just selectively remember things to claim you are right.

The original published advice for the vaccines was a three month gap, because that's the standard technique and the basis that the companies did their trials. We all knew that. It was accelerated to a shorter time because there was also evidence that a smaller gap would convey significantly improved immunity anyway, which was more desirable for the vulnerable whilst the disease was rampant. We had a long discussion about whether it was right to go for the shorter latency on this forum. And lo and behold, at a societal level, the shorter latency turned out to be a good decision.

Marty Makary isn't worth a rat's fart in this matter. He's got nothing terribly interesting or novel to say, he's just someone you kept banging on about and want to pretend is important for no other reason that you quoted him.
The fact that I can brake sooner in the rain than not in the rain means I have to keep more distance in the rain? That doesn't make any sense.

There's literally no data that getting the doses closer together saved anyone's life. IIRC the UK prioritized 1st doses, what data is there that more vulnerable people died in the UK vs the US during the initial vaccination rollouts in both countries? What data is there that a shorter gap was better, it's not like the companies did various trails for like 1 week, 3 weeks, 1 month, 2 months, 3 months, etc; and came to the conclusion that 3 weeks was best. It's like when Fauci said Paxlovid kept him out of the hospital when there's no way to prove that. Whereas, there is data showing myocarditis happens less frequently when doses are farther apart. Marty was on top of it at the very start, he personally told the guy that gave him the first shot that he'll be back in 3 months even though the guy insisted he come back in 3 weeks.

The data used for the big Died Suddenly infographic includes many, many cases of people dying from sudden cardiac arrests caused by things which are definitely not vaccine related, such as drowning in a hot tub. You should probably read the thread.
Yes, but as the saying goes, stupid people don't get colds. I just figured I had a sinus infection, and that fever was just my roommate setting the thermostat too high when I was sleeping, and the chills were because it's cold at 3am in Montana.

I am not a terribly clever person, which is why I rely so much on experts and consensus instead of placing my bets on the lone genius challenging the entire establishment.

Of course, it's common sense that me wearing a mask keeps droplets near and on me instead of on my coworkers. Like, it's *already* covering my mouth
I never said anyone died from the vaccine specifically. I said the vaccine does cause heart issues because it does and myocarditis is a pretty serious thing, it's not something to brush off. It can take people out for months. The chances are pretty high that vaccine induced myocarditis has lead to a very very very occasional death.

Covid is airborne, not droplet based... I didn't go to work in March 2020 because my temperature was normal (98 something) in the morning and didn't feel sick at all. The thing is a normal temperature for me in the morning is very abnormal when I was 94/95 every other morning (as we were required to take our temps in the morning). Hell, a normal temperature for me at any time is abnormal because my normal temp is 97 at its highest. Thus, later that day or the next day, I had noticeable symptoms. If you feel cold (chills) and your skin is warm, that's a fever, it's not like rocket science. You guys think I ignore safety guidelines because I make fun of the safety guidelines that don't do anything, I actually do the safety guidelines that make sense to do like I called off work when I wasn't even sick yet because I had a very strong information pointing towards me about to be sick. Whereas something like being around someone that interacted with someone covid positive is so very weak info to go on to conclude that you should isolate.

Yes, we do, but this is beside the point we're actually discussing right now.

Nobody here said masks alone would be enough to contain the pandemic. You insinuated they did. Just fucking acknowledge that rather than trying to pivoting to other endless diversions, and we can move on.
No we don't, provide that study that says masks do anything... unless there's a super recent well done randomized study of masking, the evidence doesn't exist.

You also insinuated China ONLY still has mask mandates. I'm pretty sure they are still doing several other things like testing and tracing that in conjunction with masks will work according to your guys' fantasy worlds.