Overlord 2
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
Well done Yahtzee, well done! I really enjoyed that, and it also made me sad....
I MISS AGGRO (Yeah, I can't spell his name). I wish my PS2 hadn't broke, as I long to play SOC again =(
As you said about characters, you need to like them, not be told to. For example, I nearly cried when
Once again, GJ Yahtzee!
I MISS AGGRO (Yeah, I can't spell his name). I wish my PS2 hadn't broke, as I long to play SOC again =(
As you said about characters, you need to like them, not be told to. For example, I nearly cried when
Agro fell off the cliff before the last boss. I was cheering when he survived in the end =D
Once again, GJ Yahtzee!
Well, regardless of how relevant you may find some of his examples, I totally agree with Yahtzee. It takes effort to make a player care about an NPC. If you can't make the player feel a degree of compassion for a character, trying to use that character to tug at the player's heartstrings comes across as incredibly lame. Great article, and I anxiously await further installments.
I like reading so that was an enjoyable article for me, Yahtzee has a certain wit about him even when writing.
One point he didn't bring up was that when a player goes into the game, as well as being a blank slate, they also wants to push the boundaries of that game by being evil, good, doing stuff not on the linear level. We're little children seeing new things.
Though the point he's making is so true, in movies we're expected to care for the character and we have no control over them. This is some sences is an interactive movie so of they want us to care, some games wont, they need to make us.
One point he didn't bring up was that when a player goes into the game, as well as being a blank slate, they also wants to push the boundaries of that game by being evil, good, doing stuff not on the linear level. We're little children seeing new things.
Though the point he's making is so true, in movies we're expected to care for the character and we have no control over them. This is some sences is an interactive movie so of they want us to care, some games wont, they need to make us.
Best one I've played that made me have an 'emotional reaction' was Oblivion. Not emotional as in sadness at somebody getting killed, but instead anger at seeing my wicked awesome sweet horse which I just bought for a large sum of money five minutes ago get taken out by something which just ran clean past me.
Fable 2, as with all of Molyneux' games was a severly overhyped game. It was fun in its own way for awhile but it fell so far short of the expectations that the missing promised features caused disappointment actually damaged the game experience, at least for me. They said all that starving your family and make your dog evil and the developing cities and whatnot, but you can't starve your family, your dog is still bouncing around wagging his tail and chasing balls as a black-fur-red-glowing-eyes hellhound, and they didn't even try on the developing cities.
As for the child in Fable 2 when it expects you to go rescue him/her because he/she goes to try to kill some hobbes I just didn't see any reason as to why. As Yahtzee said, I would only care about this one if it was useful in any way to me, and this kid doesn't grow up and will follow you around expecting you to give him/her gifts whenever you visit your house.
Well now that turned into a rant...
Fable 2, as with all of Molyneux' games was a severly overhyped game. It was fun in its own way for awhile but it fell so far short of the expectations that the missing promised features caused disappointment actually damaged the game experience, at least for me. They said all that starving your family and make your dog evil and the developing cities and whatnot, but you can't starve your family, your dog is still bouncing around wagging his tail and chasing balls as a black-fur-red-glowing-eyes hellhound, and they didn't even try on the developing cities.
As for the child in Fable 2 when it expects you to go rescue him/her because he/she goes to try to kill some hobbes I just didn't see any reason as to why. As Yahtzee said, I would only care about this one if it was useful in any way to me, and this kid doesn't grow up and will follow you around expecting you to give him/her gifts whenever you visit your house.
Well now that turned into a rant...
Long time reader, first time responder:
Personally, I had fun with Overlord II. The faults Yahtzee points out were quite valid, but either way I did have a fun time with the other bit of the game.
I can see what he meant by games forcing you to care when the players obviously don't. Really in Overlord II the only characters I find myself really being eager to beat up is the Elves due to a natural hatred of the prissy ineffectual bastards. The Minions, while amusing at times I usually didn't have as much Tender Loving Care for them outside as my personal mooks; I don't like them dying since it's a great inconvenience and I will use revives on particularly strong ones (as earlier mentioned, I like having well-armored minions with powerful weapons around). I will say this: The Mistress isn't completely just a cosmetic thing in that it does grant you an Endgame bonus depending on whom you favor.
Still, Mr. Croshaw does have his own points that I agree with. I still enjoy the act of pillaging villagers stupid and beating up Elves for my own reasons.
Personally, I had fun with Overlord II. The faults Yahtzee points out were quite valid, but either way I did have a fun time with the other bit of the game.
I can see what he meant by games forcing you to care when the players obviously don't. Really in Overlord II the only characters I find myself really being eager to beat up is the Elves due to a natural hatred of the prissy ineffectual bastards. The Minions, while amusing at times I usually didn't have as much Tender Loving Care for them outside as my personal mooks; I don't like them dying since it's a great inconvenience and I will use revives on particularly strong ones (as earlier mentioned, I like having well-armored minions with powerful weapons around). I will say this: The Mistress isn't completely just a cosmetic thing in that it does grant you an Endgame bonus depending on whom you favor.
Still, Mr. Croshaw does have his own points that I agree with. I still enjoy the act of pillaging villagers stupid and beating up Elves for my own reasons.
That was a great read, hope he plans to make this a regular thing. The reasons Yahtzee brings up for disliking Overlord 2 are exactly how I felt, I was having alot of fun with that game for a couple of hours and then the pointless grinding started and I wanted to return the fucker but of course I bought it on steam, sigh. Ah well least I saved myself 30 bucks.
Seriously though what is it with so many game devs filling games full of useless shit no one wants instead of I dunno, MAKING THE GAME BETTER. I'd take a more polished shorter experience over a drawn out unrefined one any day.
Seriously though what is it with so many game devs filling games full of useless shit no one wants instead of I dunno, MAKING THE GAME BETTER. I'd take a more polished shorter experience over a drawn out unrefined one any day.
Valid points here, with the in-game persona different from real-life persona and making sure players have a reason to care. As for the first-point, it doesn't apply to me, since I want to be a nice guy in both instances. But that's only my personal experience.
What? You weren't moved by the cliche storyline that lead up to an ending I literally called while playing. Ended up telling my GFPedroSteckecilo said:
The girl is already dead and she is going to end up killing him.
I was so shocked at how by the numbers that game was and how high its ratings were...blew my mind.
Hm, the dead GF shtick in Dead Space actually got to me.
If you read his notes in the mission objectives screen, he actually seems like a pretty caring individual, not to mention the constant, mindfuck visions he has of her.
Maybe I'm just a sucker for any emoting in a game, but I actually sympathized with the dude.
Nice sticking it to Pete.
Rather arrogant of him to assume why that gamer would go and slowly starve to death his useless, hanger-on of a family.
If you don't recall, Freeman was put into suspended animation immediately following the Black Mesa incident.
That gave Alyx plenty of time to grow up from being a baby to a very mature young woman (with a great sense of humor, mind you).
If you read his notes in the mission objectives screen, he actually seems like a pretty caring individual, not to mention the constant, mindfuck visions he has of her.
Maybe I'm just a sucker for any emoting in a game, but I actually sympathized with the dude.
Nice sticking it to Pete.
Rather arrogant of him to assume why that gamer would go and slowly starve to death his useless, hanger-on of a family.
They're in the same age group.PedroSteckecilo said:
If you don't recall, Freeman was put into suspended animation immediately following the Black Mesa incident.
That gave Alyx plenty of time to grow up from being a baby to a very mature young woman (with a great sense of humor, mind you).
Ah, this seems like a great column. ZP is entertaining but gets repetitive. A space for him to be more serious and have the chance to make his points properly is a very good idea.
As a random example of a game that does this sort of thing well, I'm going to take this opportunity to tell you all to play Fire Emblem. Not only is it pleasantly refreshing to see a game series that transparently doesn't given a damn about graphics, through the support system it allows for character development and, in the form of statistical bonuses, gives you a strong incentive to do so. The supports in Path of Radiance (FE9; sadly FE10 and FE11 dropped the system to lesser and greater extents, FE10 because the developers were foolish, FE11 because it's a re-make) are an excellent excellent example of how story and mechanical elements can work together; I found myself wanting to increase characters' support levels both because I wanted to see their relationships develop and because I wanted the improved battlefield performance that comes of it.
As a random example of a game that does this sort of thing well, I'm going to take this opportunity to tell you all to play Fire Emblem. Not only is it pleasantly refreshing to see a game series that transparently doesn't given a damn about graphics, through the support system it allows for character development and, in the form of statistical bonuses, gives you a strong incentive to do so. The supports in Path of Radiance (FE9; sadly FE10 and FE11 dropped the system to lesser and greater extents, FE10 because the developers were foolish, FE11 because it's a re-make) are an excellent excellent example of how story and mechanical elements can work together; I found myself wanting to increase characters' support levels both because I wanted to see their relationships develop and because I wanted the improved battlefield performance that comes of it.
i disagree about overlord, the game has no moral choice, and you can choose one mistress over another, its just that she still hangs out in your tower instead of leaving, pah, who cares, she does nothing anyway until end game
and overlord didn't try to make you care, same as half life and halo didn't make me care. the player brought overlord knowing exactly what they would be doing with whats on the case, i assume whoever brought it either cared or loves making themself feel horrible after playing games
and overlord didn't try to make you care, same as half life and halo didn't make me care. the player brought overlord knowing exactly what they would be doing with whats on the case, i assume whoever brought it either cared or loves making themself feel horrible after playing games
I find the easiest way to make me care about a character is, again, make them useful to gameplay. Like Alyx from Half-Life 2, or your horse from Shadow of the Colossus, both of whom I could see myself cuddling up to at night.
Dammit, Yahtzee, did you have to mention the poor horse? I was almost over that. :baaaws dramatically:
But I agree with most of this because it's a problem I've had with enjoying certain games, especially open world sandbox ones, oddly enough.
Dammit, Yahtzee, did you have to mention the poor horse? I was almost over that. :baaaws dramatically:
But I agree with most of this because it's a problem I've had with enjoying certain games, especially open world sandbox ones, oddly enough.
Yes, I was being sarcastic. I just assumed it was obvious so I didn't bother to put /sarcasm at the end of my post. Then when someone took me to be serious, well me mam always used to, "DOUGAL! If you ain't gots noth'n goods to say, then don't say anything you little piece of shit!" I did not have a happy childhood./sarcasmmegalomania said:
I really do think that this boring Overlord installment can set up an exciting third game, though. Imagine this:
Your the son of one of the three mistresses, you have two other brothers. You've inherited a twisted, demonic visage from your father and from your mother (one of the three) you've inherited a unique advantage.
If you're the son of the strong mistress, you're basically a fighter and you are weaker at spell casting and you are slower in speed.
You make minions from the souls of the dead, classic style. They're strong and fast, but can't take much of a beating.
If you're the son of the manipulative mistress, you're better at controlling minions and more easily able to manage greater numbers of them, as well as manipulating people, but you're physically frail, though fast.
Your minions are people, enslaved with your charismatic powers and bewitched by your handsome appearance. To gain these minions, you must break their wills by staring them down, it is possible to send them back to your tower like classic minions, they just need bigger spawn points.
If you're the son of the magical mistress, you're better at magic and gain access to unique spells and powers, at the cost of being physically frail and unskilled in physical combat.
Your minions are zombies, your dead enemies fill your ranks. Zombies are exceptionally slower than the other minions, but they are strong and durable and easy to replace, though they are not smart enough to use weapons.
Raised from birth to be obedient to your father, you and your brothers break free from his control at age 18 and because of your upbringing as servants, essentially, desire great power.
Namely, control of your father's domain and his death.
A great open world with unique options depending on your character and distinct differences between each playable character's abilities, minions, actions, appearance, domains and options.
I can only dream...
Your the son of one of the three mistresses, you have two other brothers. You've inherited a twisted, demonic visage from your father and from your mother (one of the three) you've inherited a unique advantage.
If you're the son of the strong mistress, you're basically a fighter and you are weaker at spell casting and you are slower in speed.
You make minions from the souls of the dead, classic style. They're strong and fast, but can't take much of a beating.
If you're the son of the manipulative mistress, you're better at controlling minions and more easily able to manage greater numbers of them, as well as manipulating people, but you're physically frail, though fast.
Your minions are people, enslaved with your charismatic powers and bewitched by your handsome appearance. To gain these minions, you must break their wills by staring them down, it is possible to send them back to your tower like classic minions, they just need bigger spawn points.
If you're the son of the magical mistress, you're better at magic and gain access to unique spells and powers, at the cost of being physically frail and unskilled in physical combat.
Your minions are zombies, your dead enemies fill your ranks. Zombies are exceptionally slower than the other minions, but they are strong and durable and easy to replace, though they are not smart enough to use weapons.
Raised from birth to be obedient to your father, you and your brothers break free from his control at age 18 and because of your upbringing as servants, essentially, desire great power.
Namely, control of your father's domain and his death.
A great open world with unique options depending on your character and distinct differences between each playable character's abilities, minions, actions, appearance, domains and options.
I can only dream...