Pacific Rim Beaten by Adam Sandler at Box Office

[DrOswald]

I don't think I've ever disliked a movie as much as Pacific Rim. Sorry, people - and MovieBob, I know you love giant monster movies but Jesus, you should not have let this movie get away with being as dumb and cliched as it was.

I genuinely don't understand the big love this movie is getting here. I mean - sure, giant robots punching monsters in the face, it's fun enough in its way but *everything* about this movie was stupid. The plot was just like spending half an hour on TVTropes - when Idris Elba came in suited up I literally facepalmed. That fucking 'British Professor' character *actually said 'By Jove' at one stage*. And wrote equations on a giant blackboard.

And the big sword. The Big Fucking Sword! They might as well have joined the robots together into a giant MegaZorg.

Ok, I am calling you out here. Why exactly is a giant robot having a sword so dumb? And how is it any more dumb than, say, a man dressing up as a bat and fighting crime? Or a man getting really angry and turning into a green rage monster? Or Hawkeye using a bow against technologically advanced aliens?

How is Pacific Rim being cliched worse than, for example, Captain America, which is basically a movie about a walking cliche? Or the Avengers? I mean, Nick Fury actually reports to a room full of shadowy figures. The Avengers save the world with the power of friendship. All the aliens die when the mothership explodes for no reason. In fact, you could say that the plot of The Avengers is like spending a half hour on TV tropes. Why are Pacific Rim's cliches so much worse?

Please, explain.

 

[hooglese]

Why does adam sandler need to exist!

 

[Flatfrog]

Ok, I am calling you out here. Why exactly is a giant robot having a sword so dumb?

Because it was the final straw that destroyed any last remnant of hope that I was watching anything other than a Power Rangers movie. It was *exactly* the same as the moment from any Power Rangers episode where the monster defeats their current arsenal of weapons so they bring out one more even more stupid master weapon. The one that has become a particular (mis)quote in our house is, I think, from Mystic Force - 'unleash the bee'. And you always find yourself saying 'if that weapon's so damn effective why didn't you use it from the start?

And how is it any more dumb than, say, a man dressing up as a bat and fighting crime? Or a man getting really angry and turning into a green rage monster? Or Hawkeye using a bow against technologically advanced aliens?

Oh, it isn't. And I can cope with silly big dumb movies just fine. But they need to have some kind of lightness of tone that makes you willing to play along.

I know what this reminded me of:

How is Pacific Rim being cliched worse than, for example, Captain America, which is basically a movie about a walking cliche? Or the Avengers? I mean, Nick Fury actually reports to a room full of shadowy figures. The Avengers save the world with the power of friendship. All the aliens die when the mothership explodes for no reason. In fact, you could say that the plot of The Avengers is like spending a half hour on TV tropes. Why are Pacific Rim's cliches so much worse?

Well, I can't go comparing it with everything, but ok, let's pick The Avengers (I thought Captain America was pretty stupid too TBH). That worked because it engaged me with the characters, who were well drawn, with conflicts between them between them that gave us some reason to care about them above and beyond the crisis they were facing. It felt that the story followed the characters, not the other way round. It helped that there was a villain with a motive and some kind of personal connection to the characters, and that the escalations of the peril were not just quantitative ('What category monster is it?' 'Category five!') but qualitative (Oh, so his plan was not this but that).

Is that enough? I could probably give you more but I'd have to watch Avengers again if I wanted to go into any more detail.

 

[duct tape guardian]

hey man, I did my part I saw it 3 times this weekend, and am probably gonna see it a couple more times this week.

 

[JemothSkarii]

who the hell watches Adam Sandler movies?

Pacific Rim is stupid movie. a good-stupid movie. it is worth watching.

I do, quite often actually but I generally stick to the classics. Kind of enjoyed Grown Ups, but have you seen Reign Over Me? Very powerful movie.

OT: The sequel to Grown Ups looks terrible, and the Adam Sandler movies these last few years seem....uninspired. Pacific Rim looks kind of cool I'll have to check it out.

 

[LazyAza]

This is absolutely disgusting, everyone responsible for this happening makes me ashamed to be part of this species.

Grown Ups 2... beat Pacific Rim? Grown Ups 2 beat Pacific Rim?! That's it!

I can see the argument for it perhaps being considered quite niche and therefore not getting the broader attention, but I still find that a surprising notion given how utterly dominated the box office is these days by superheroes and other traditionally nerdy topics.

It's just in the US.
Outside of the US, Grown Ups 2 earned 1.7 million$, while Pacific Rim earned 53 million $... in 3 days!!! PR is doing fine, it will make a lot more than GU2 in the long run.
Movies can bomb in the US and still be worldwide hits. It's not the 80's anymore.

Aw man I built this space ship for NOTHING! Here I was all set to go colonize Mars. Haha but seriously that's awesome, but boy, what the heck America.

 

[DrOswald]

Ok, I am calling you out here. Why exactly is a giant robot having a sword so dumb?

Because it was the final straw that destroyed any last remnant of hope that I was watching anything other than a Power Rangers movie. It was *exactly* the same as the moment from any Power Rangers episode where the monster defeats their current arsenal of weapons so they bring out one more even more stupid master weapon. The one that has become a particular (mis)quote in our house is, I think, from Mystic Force - 'unleash the bee'. And you always find yourself saying 'if that weapon's so damn effective why didn't you use it from the start?

And how is it any more dumb than, say, a man dressing up as a bat and fighting crime? Or a man getting really angry and turning into a green rage monster? Or Hawkeye using a bow against technologically advanced aliens?

Oh, it isn't. And I can cope with silly big dumb movies just fine. But they need to have some kind of lightness of tone that makes you willing to play along.

How is Pacific Rim being cliched worse than, for example, Captain America, which is basically a movie about a walking cliche? Or the Avengers? I mean, Nick Fury actually reports to a room full of shadowy figures. The Avengers save the world with the power of friendship. All the aliens die when the mothership explodes for no reason. In fact, you could say that the plot of The Avengers is like spending a half hour on TV tropes. Why are Pacific Rim's cliches so much worse?

Well, I can't go comparing it with everything, but ok, let's pick The Avengers (I thought Captain America was pretty stupid too TBH). That worked because it engaged me with the characters, who were well drawn, with conflicts between them between them that gave us some reason to care about them above and beyond the crisis they were facing. It felt that the story followed the characters, not the other way round. It helped that there was a villain with a motive and some kind of personal connection to the characters, and that the escalations of the peril were not just quantitative ('What category monster is it?' 'Category five!') but qualitative (Oh, so his plan was not this but that).

Is that enough? I could probably give you more but I'd have to watch Avengers again if I wanted to go into any more detail.

That lightness of tone stuff is not true if you think about it. Dark Knight was as heavy a movie as you can get and you have specifically, in this thread, used it as a positive example against Pacific Rim. While Dark Knight has a good deal of humor none of it is lighthearted. Pacific Rim, on the other hand, never takes itself too seriously, breaking up even the most intense action scenes with lighthearted jokes. So that cannot be the reason you find the robot with the sword so much worse.

And it can't be the timing of the thing. After all, basically the exact same thing happens in The Avengers when the Hulk, without any explanation at all, suddenly can control his Hulk rage. Why couldn't he have done that before? oh, right, because we had to have a scene where Thor fights Hulk. It doesn't need to make sense, it was cool and fun. But the sword was not cool and fun for you.

I would like to propose an explanation:

You like the cliches and tropes in the Avengers more than the ones in Pacific Rim. You dislike event driven plots and you are more willing to put up with the dumbness of superhero movies than the dumbness of giant robot movies, all of which are completely valid positions. You like what you like. But we like what we like.

My problem is when you come in here and criticize us for liking what we liked. You call us out for letting a movie get away with being dumb and cliched when you have done exactly the same thing when it was the thing you liked. You let the Dark Knight and the Avengers get away with being dumb and cliched because you like those movies. And I agree with you. I like those movies a lot. Just don't criticize me for letting something I like get away with being dumb and cliched because you don't like it.

 

[Mr Dizazta]

I had to force my parents to go see Pacific Rim Friday. Know what they did the next day? Went and saw Grown Ups 2 and had that balls to say it was better.

 

[Jacco]

Although I haven't seen the Adam Sandler film... I did see Pacific Rim - due to friends wanting to go see it.

I thought it was pretty god damn awful if I'm honest. Cheesy lines, stereotypical casting, unnecessary stupid visual jokes.

I know people will probably rage at me for saying that but it really wasn't my cup of tea at all. Summarising the film is as simple as 'Smashy smashy' - so I think it should take its box office position as a win for such a poor film.

I agree with you 100%. I thought it was fucking awful. It belonged on the SciFi channel so whatever money it makes it should be very greatful for.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

snip

It was fun, but I don't see the gushing. Maybe it is because we finally have a benchmark for giant robot combat. Michael Bay could watch it and take notes. Combat has weight, feeling, spectacle, and you can actually tell what is going on.

I guess that is what I'm getting at. The reason people are going ape over it is because it shows that there is a spark in what looks like a dying industry.

Yeah it bases itself of several movie types, but it is new IP. This industry has devolved into a blob of remakes, "re-imaginings", trashy comedies, and sequels/prequels, with the rest of the movies while being some "new" things they tend to be artsy-fartsy "look at me Oscar people, please give me an award".

I remember when I use to go to the theater at least 8 times a year, but then it started becoming unappealing(and not because of the prices). Looking back, in the past 5 years, I may have seen ten movies. Last year I saw two movies, The Avengers, and The Hobbit.

This year, I've only seen Despicable Me 2 because my friends asked me if I wanted to go, and I had nothing better to do. Next week I will go see Pacific Rim. Then from what I know of that is coming down the film line, the next and last movie of the year I will see is the next Hobbit movie.

On a side note:
I think I know one reason I've become disinterested in movies in the past few years. When I saw DM2 yesterday, I sat through more than twenty minutes of movie trailers, so many that they've blurred together so I don't remember how many. I know at least four were cash grab kid flicks that are trying to grasp onto the gold of what came before, and one was the Ender's Game movie.

First off, that felt like there was a glut of movies coming out. I know I remember that when I was younger, I actually liked the movie previews and was excited to see what two or three movies they previewed. But now it's like they have to advertise almost the entire movie lineup for the next three months or so.

Secondly, I noticed that it really does seem like most of Hollywood doesn't know how to make movie trailers anymore. I think just about all the trailers I saw, I felt like they had already shown me every scene in the movie, at least every scene they thought was the best, which makes me not want to go see the movie even if I'm interested. At that point I'm like, well I've already seen the good parts on the big screen with the trailer, now I can wait to view it on Netflix or get the DVD.

 

[Tien Shen]

Meh, Pacific Rim brought in $91 million [http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=pacificrim.htm] worldwide. GU2 only managed to get $43 million [http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=grownups2.htm] worldwide. Pacific Rim hasn't even opened in China and Japan. So globally, PR will certainly crush GU2, but for a lot of folks, the US market seems to be only thing that matters.

 

[HalfTangible]

... Look, I get that Pacific Rim isn't perfect and isn't the kind of movie that's going to appeal to everyone, but COME ON, how does it get beat by Adam Sandler?!

I'm just glad I was wrong the first time I read the article and thought it'd been beaten by Lone Ranger, too. At that point, I'm not sure what i'd have done ._.

Meh, Pacific Rim brought in $91 million [http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=pacificrim.htm] worldwide. GU2 only managed to get $43 million [http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=grownups2.htm] worldwide. Pacific Rim hasn't even opened in China and Japan. So globally, PR will certainly crush GU2, but for a lot of folks, the US market seems to be only thing that matters.

Sadly, this is too true. Box office is all that matters to too many people... which is precisely why this worries me. Watch the Big Picture episode on the Mountains of Madness (the episode's name escapes me at the moment) sometime, you'll see why.

EDIT: Found it! The Numbers.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/3281-The-Numbers

 

[Hutzpah Chicken]

One could say that most of the sales for Grown Ups 2 was for child tickets, but any kid would rather see giant mechs beating up giant, alien monsters. ANYBODY, except maybe Jane Fonda, would go see mechs putting the smackdown on anything. Long live the awesome movie genre!

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

Adam Sandler hasn't been funny.

There, fixed.

Seriously, America, what the fuck is wrong with you?

 

[Flatfrog]

My problem is when you come in here and criticize us for liking what we liked. You call us out for letting a movie get away with being dumb and cliched when you have done exactly the same thing when it was the thing you liked. You let the Dark Knight and the Avengers get away with being dumb and cliched because you like those movies. And I agree with you. I like those movies a lot. Just don't criticize me for letting something I like get away with being dumb and cliched because you don't like it.

Well hold on a second. I didn't criticise you for liking the movie, I just criticised the movie, and then you asked me to back it up so I did. And I criticised MovieBob for allowing it to get away with a level of dumbness which he wouldn't have tolerated in other movies, because criticising movies is his job. And I expressed surprise about how passionate people are becoming about this movie when it just seemed pretty stupid to me.

That lightness of tone stuff is not true if you think about it. Dark Knight was as heavy a movie as you can get and you have specifically, in this thread, used it as a positive example against Pacific Rim. While Dark Knight has a good deal of humor none of it is lighthearted. Pacific Rim, on the other hand, never takes itself too seriously, breaking up even the most intense action scenes with lighthearted jokes. So that cannot be the reason you find the robot with the sword so much worse.

There's a difference between lightness of tone and lightheartedness, which I may not have made clear because I was focusing on Avengers rather than Dark Knight. Avengers is a much better example anyway because it's a much better candidate for dismissing as a big dumb movie than Dark Knight is. I don't think there's much of a comparison with Dark Knight because it goes entirely the other way - rather than embracing the silliness of its concept and going out bold and brash with it, it takes the silly concept and treats it mostly seriously (although it does have plenty of humour too). But again, Dark Knight is primarily a character movie, where the big set pieces are built around the interactions between the three main characters and the ambiguity of hero and villain.

You like the cliches and tropes in the Avengers more than the ones in Pacific Rim. You dislike event driven plots and you are more willing to put up with the dumbness of superhero movies than the dumbness of giant robot movies, all of which are completely valid positions. You like what you like. But we like what we like.

Sure, but then at the same time you can't turn round and be unhappy that the movie you like *despite all its acknowledged flaws* is not appreciated by other people, who prefer an Adam Sandler vehicle despite all *its* acknowledged flaws.

In any case, this isn't just about tropes and cliches. There's nothing wrong with taking a trope if you then do something new and original with it, and I just don't think there was a single new and original thing in PR, apart possibly from the neural interface thing. It was a grand homage (and a grand fromage) to the great monster movies, and while it did what it did very well, I don't think it brought anything new to the table, and it certainly did nothing to make me care one iota for the characters and their struggle.

 

[DrOswald]

My problem is when you come in here and criticize us for liking what we liked. You call us out for letting a movie get away with being dumb and cliched when you have done exactly the same thing when it was the thing you liked. You let the Dark Knight and the Avengers get away with being dumb and cliched because you like those movies. And I agree with you. I like those movies a lot. Just don't criticize me for letting something I like get away with being dumb and cliched because you don't like it.

Well hold on a second. I didn't criticise you for liking the movie, I just criticised the movie, and then you asked me to back it up so I did. And I criticised MovieBob for allowing it to get away with a level of dumbness which he wouldn't have tolerated in other movies, because criticising movies is his job. And I expressed surprise about how passionate people are becoming about this movie when it just seemed pretty stupid to me.

That lightness of tone stuff is not true if you think about it. Dark Knight was as heavy a movie as you can get and you have specifically, in this thread, used it as a positive example against Pacific Rim. While Dark Knight has a good deal of humor none of it is lighthearted. Pacific Rim, on the other hand, never takes itself too seriously, breaking up even the most intense action scenes with lighthearted jokes. So that cannot be the reason you find the robot with the sword so much worse.

There's a difference between lightness of tone and lightheartedness, which I may not have made clear because I was focusing on Avengers rather than Dark Knight. Avengers is a much better example anyway because it's a much better candidate for dismissing as a big dumb movie than Dark Knight is. I don't think there's much of a comparison with Dark Knight because it goes entirely the other way - rather than embracing the silliness of its concept and going out bold and brash with it, it takes the silly concept and treats it mostly seriously (although it does have plenty of humour too). But again, Dark Knight is primarily a character movie, where the big set pieces are built around the interactions between the three main characters and the ambiguity of hero and villain.

You like the cliches and tropes in the Avengers more than the ones in Pacific Rim. You dislike event driven plots and you are more willing to put up with the dumbness of superhero movies than the dumbness of giant robot movies, all of which are completely valid positions. You like what you like. But we like what we like.

Sure, but then at the same time you can't turn round and be unhappy that the movie you like *despite all its acknowledged flaws* is not appreciated by other people, who prefer an Adam Sandler vehicle despite all *its* acknowledged flaws.

In any case, this isn't just about tropes and cliches. There's nothing wrong with taking a trope if you then do something new and original with it, and I just don't think there was a single new and original thing in PR, apart possibly from the neural interface thing. It was a grand homage (and a grand fromage) to the great monster movies, and while it did what it did very well, I don't think it brought anything new to the table, and it certainly did nothing to make me care one iota for the characters and their struggle.

"But Jesus, you should not have let this movie get away with being as dumb and cliched as it was."

That is not a criticism of the movie, that is a criticism of the people who thought the movie was good. You may not have meant to say that but you did.

For a basic and stupid analogy, if you walk into a room with a thousand people all wearing green shirts and then say "Jesus Jim, why did you were a green shirt? They are so fucking dumb!" That is a criticism of everyone who wore a green shirt. Especially when you say it to the room at large with very little possibility that the person you are directing it to will even hear it.

As far as the tropes and cliches go, how exactly did The Avengers do anything new with their tropes? What was this original mix that they managed to put in there that justifies the use of all these old ideas? Because I really don't see it and I have watched The Avengers probably a dozen times. They don't do anything new or original in that movie. What they do is execute each and every cliche they use at an excellent level. They did a very good job of reusing old ideas. The Avengers was a movie about old characters in a familiar situation in an over saturated genre executed with a high level of excellence. It felt fresh to you because it was enjoyable.

Pacific Rim, on the other hand, is a new movie about new characters who we have never seen before. They came up with all new monster concepts and robot designs from scratch. They used the idea of mental linking to the robot in a new and interesting way. They attempted to make the giant robot and giant monster genres something more than a joke in mainstream movies. The robots had unusual, original, and competently made designs. But I will give you that the movie was rough. The acting was not as good as it could have been. The characters were a bit shallow. The plot had holes. It was no where near as polished as The Avengers. But don't tell me that The Avengers is better because it is more original.

On tone and silly genre conventions: So dumb things in movies only works when the movie has a light tone or is very serious? OK.

 

[sageoftruth]

Considering it's still summer, I'm not too surprised. Kids are still enjoying their summer vacation. They were probably filling the box office. When I was a little kid, I enjoyed movies like Mr. Nanny and Power Rangers the Movie. Knowing the theaters were filled with people sporting the same mindset, it seems inevitable that a Pixar film and and Adam Sandler movie came out on top.

 

[Olas]

yes, how dare they not like old made new giant robots vs monster b movie flicks and go for b movie quality social comedy flicks.

Pacific Rim has more comedy in it than Grown Ups did, and from what I've heard Grownups 2 is even worse.

 

[Drake the Dragonheart]

That makes very, very sad. You there! It's your fault! Go see Pacific Rim to try and rectify the issue. It's fun.

Alternatively, anyone else think we should send a Jaeger after Adam Sandler and see who's laughing then?

Not mine. I have already seen it twice, thinking about a third time! Maybe even do what one buddy did with Spider-Man 2. Went to the first showing of the day, as soon as it was over, went into the lobby, got another ticket, and basically watched it the whole day.

Well shit.

But did anyone honestly not see this coming?
/cynicism

Oh well, I'll try to remedy this issue by dragging as many people I know as possible to go see it tomorrow.

TOMORROW, WE ARE CANCELLING THE BOX-OFFICALYPSE!
/terrible, terrible joke

I got a great laugh out of that! so, good job!

 

[Roxor]

I understand why it isn't popular, it's because it doesn't show America saving the world. I didn't want to be they guy that said it, but there it is.

And now we are punished with Adam Sandler because of it.

You need America saving the day to have a popular movie in America? Bloody hell, the Yanks must have really fragile egos...