Pakistan Bans Facebook Over "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day"

[Cliff_m85]

Well...cant say imn surprised. After what happened to that newspaper dude and he now has people trying to kill him...

One nation that seriously over-reacts...dont see Israel banning stuff of depictations of Jesus...

Jesus means nothing to Israel, they are Jews, so I don't see any reason for Israel to ban it.

Jesus is still a prophet in Islam and there are restrictions to his depiction as well. Yet there isn't much of an outcry from Muslims about the multiple depictions of Jesus. Most likely because there are too many to go against.

 

[Thurmer]

sure there is some people trying to provoke another faith but i joined that facebook group out of my personal belief in freedom of speech. you cannot try and enforce your religion and beliefs on another regardless of how offended you will be and honestly with the south park episode its like people looking up something they have heard being offensive then being outraged by it when they went out of their way to find said outrage.

btw my picture of mohammed had him dancing while jesus was rollerblading in the background with the title: mohammed loves disco. just wondering is this offensive?

 

[Maverick Siragusa]

Muslims have been getting insulted allot lately and people don't expect them to get pissed off. they haven't been brainwashed by the western media into making it feel alright, people dont like their prophets to get insulted i know i dont.

its like this, a little doushey kid wants attention on a airplane. so he starts kicking the seat in front of him, the guy in that seat has asked the child and his parents for him to stop kicking his seat calmly and one of the childs parents yells "we have freedom of expression and speech". so then the guy is forced to move seats.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Muslims have been getting insulted allot lately and people don't expect them to get pissed off. they haven't been brainwashed by the western media into making it feel alright, people dont like their prophets to get insulted i know i dont.

its like this, a little doushey kid wants attention on a airplane. so he starts kicking the seat in front of him, the guy in that seat has asked the child and his parents for him to stop kicking his seat calmly and one of the childs parents yells "we have freedom of expression and speech". so then the guy is forced to move seats.

Then the guy beheads the child. The blame of the death of the child is obviously on the child.

Right?

 

[Rickyvantof]

Not being able to render an image of the Islam's prophet isn't really a restriction to freedom of speech. I mean, why would you want to do it in the first place? Other than to provoke, like the Facebook page...
Not being able to say "religion is crap" or whatever, that would be a restriction to freedom of speech.

 

[Lem0nade Inlay]

Eh, I hate facebook anyway. I've seen countless racist, derogatory groups and fan pages. Of course, anyone can say what they want, freedom of speech etc. But when it's unprovoked, ignorant and/or just stupidly offensive? Then it shouldn't be up.

Though I guess we're not really FORCING them to read this stuff. But what if for example I walked up to a Jewish school and started writing comments like "F*** OFF JEWS" or something? They don't HAVE to read it, but it still should not happen.

Relating to OP, I think it is hypocritical, and for what it's worth I think that they should allow viewing of the group to India though.

 

[Lucifron]

People are so quick to jump on the "freedom of speech" gimmick while completely neglecting the perspectives of anyone who might take offense from it.

Who gives a shit? If I would've been given a penny every time anyone "offended" me, I'd be a billionaire by now. But here's the deal bucko: part of being an adult is learning to not feed the trolls. I don't care about the childish sensibilities of Danish, Greeks, pharmacists, Muslims, Christians, Mexicans, Russians, Americans, Brits, Aussies, Hindus, Buddhists, bankers, commercial airplane pilots, circus performers, pornstars, cartoonists or anyone else, and I especially don't care if they are offended by anything I do or if they attempt to offend me. The world is not the local elementary school playground of intellectually immature assholes who feel the need to make a fuss every time someone says something that challenges their view of the world or anything else that they don't approve of.

This has nothing to do with Draw Mohammed Day, which in any case was just a gathering of trolls, and something which could be summarily ignored by anyone who didn't approve. Only idiots waste their time being butthurt over trolls.

I also liked how you called Freedom of Speech a "gimmick". Your nation didn't happen to "miss" the Enlightenment, did it?

Pakistan banning Facebook and those other sites is a perfect example of just how badly this event failed.

On the other hand...India also went forth with a ban of their own? That's surprising. Surprisingly positive, even.

Wait, the trolls failed by getting attention? And I'm certain that you'll be happy to explain how censorship in any form is a "surprisingly positive" thing?

 

[NeutralDrow]

Pakistan banning Facebook and those other sites is a perfect example of just how badly this event failed.

On the other hand...India also went forth with a ban of their own? That's surprising. Surprisingly positive, even.

Wait, the trolls failed by getting attention?

Oh, no, there was certainly troll sign, the likes of which even God has never seen. And they certainly succeeded at being trolls.

In advancing free speech, however, doing something considered so inherently offensive that a government suppresses it? And with the foreknowledge that any idea attached to it is certain to get massive amounts of negative press even on lower levels? Way to set the cause back by years.

And I'm certain that you'll be happy to explain how censorship in any form is a "surprisingly positive" thing?

Do you have any idea how bad Indian-Pakistani relations have been for the past seventy years? And how unusual it is for India, a country which has not only freedom of expression but a somewhat oppressed Muslim minority, to willingly show solidarity with essentially their arch-enemy in this matter?

Yes, I consider that action to be an incredibly positive sign.

 

[evilartist]

Yet, you seem to forget the part where they're murdering people and burning down houses. Just because they're not a majority in their religion, that doesn't mean we should ignore their cruel actions. And even if the majority got upset, you know they're not going to go around attacking people and making death threats. If they were that insane, they would already be helping out those extremists.

And by the way, how is a dumb facebook page going to get extremists to stop being extreme?

It's not. That could never happen, it's unrealistic. Extremists will always exist. The Facebook page, and the day itself, are supposed to do two things:
1) Send a message to any chickenshit suits at any major media broadcasting network that unnecessary self-censorship is bad (since that was how this all started), and...
2) To spread thin the number of people extremists can focus their wrath onto. Muslim extremists murdered Theo Van Gogh because he was a relatively high-profile figure who did something "blasphemous". Trey Parker and Matt Stone were threatened also because of their fame brought on by South Park. However, if everybody started depicting Muhammad, then the crazies would have to think twice about attempting to kill so many blasphemers.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Yet, you seem to forget the part where they're murdering people and burning down houses. Just because they're not a majority in their religion, that doesn't mean we should ignore their cruel actions. And even if the majority got upset, you know they're not going to go around attacking people and making death threats. If they were that insane, they would already be helping out those extremists.

And by the way, how is a dumb facebook page going to get extremists to stop being extreme?

It's not. That could never happen, it's unrealistic. Extremists will always exist. The Facebook page, and the day itself, are supposed to do two things:
1) Send a message to any chickenshit suits at any major media broadcasting network that unnecessary self-censorship is bad (since that was how this all started)

Do people just not write angry letters any more? It would certainly be more effective, and not have any disastrous side effects.

2) To spread thin the number of people extremists can focus their wrath onto. Muslim extremists murdered Theo Van Gogh because he was a relatively high-profile figure who did something "blasphemous". Trey Parker and Matt Stone were threatened also because of their fame brought on by South Park. However, if everybody started depicting Muhammad, then the crazies would have to think twice about attempting to kill so many blasphemers.

Why would they have a problem? You're already increasing the legitimacy of their propaganda material. Since you're doing their job for them, they could just rely on more recruits.

 

[Nouw]

If they were offended then be my guest to ban it! I don't think they thought on it for too long as the rest of the world can still see it.

Also,

Mohammed would be disgraced to see what has happened to Islam now.
The core of Islam is of love, not slaughtering millions.

grrr Ninja!

 

[Lucifron]

Oh, no, there was certainly troll sign, the likes of which even God has never seen. And they certainly succeeded at being trolls.

Long Live the Fighters!

Kudos.

In advancing free speech, however, doing something considered so inherently offensive that a government suppresses it? And with the foreknowledge that any idea attached to it is certain to get massive amounts of negative press even on lower levels? Way to set the cause back by years.

Oh come now, it isn't that bad. Where there's free speech, there's trolls, and you can just learn to ignore them. It didn't help, but it would be stupid to let such a thing actually hurt "the cause".

Do you have any idea how bad Indian-Pakistani relations have been for the past seventy years? And how unusual it is for India, a country which has not only freedom of expression but a somewhat oppressed Muslim minority, to willingly show solidarity with essentially their arch-enemy in this matter?

Yes, I consider that action to be an incredibly positive sign.

Yes, I do know, in fact, but I didn't at all consider the matter in that context. I thank you for explaining, and it is indeed a positive sign. Maybe this is what the trolls wanted all along!

..what? No?

 

[Cliff_m85]

to partially quote frank zappa: its just WORDS/DRAWINGS!

heres an example to put yourself in their shoes: lets say your beloved grandma (who was the nicest person in the world) died in a car accident, and someone who had ONCE been made fun of by your grandma made an offensive drawing of her in the newspaper, showing her in a carcrash with some offendig lines of text and all (no blood and gore, just her looking pathetic). picture that. got it? well, thats the same as the mohammed drawings to a muslim.

now, heres the mind-itcher: how would you react? ofc you would be upset, maybe sue the person, maybe write back at him/her in the newspaper or confronting him/her saying hes/shes been out of line with this. but does it justify you threatening him/her to death? or burning down his/her friends house? or actually FREAKIN kill the person? NO. then how can you say "oh, the muslims (extremists, not everyone) got a reason for their doing".

as long as youre not giving out personal and sensitive information, we got freedom of speech. people should be fined for using it to the extreme, but it will and always will be "JUST WORDS/DRAWINGS". people that sympathise with muslims in this case got no place in modern society.

No it's not. I met my grandmother. I dare you to find me one Muslim that met Muhammad. You can't really suggest that a delusional 'relationship' with a being that's been dead for quite some time is the same as an actual relationship with someone you absolutely know to exist and have met.

How would I react? I'd be a little offended and I have no right to take away that individuals right to draw/publish such photos. That and I'd be sure to avoid the publications of the individual.

People absolutely SHOULD NOT be fined for speech because that's a form of censorship. It puts a price on words and ideas to prevent those without the funds to say certain things. Fuck that!

 

[icaritos]

Im usually anti-religion and i HATE censorship but this "Draw Muhammad Day" comes of to me as needlessly offensive. I mean it hurts not only those Muslim extremists, but also those Muslims that are peaceful and dont do any harm (which is the vast majority).

Also America, freedom of speech is not freedom to offend, if the idea that you are trying to express hurts someone indirectly than yes i agree they should have to deal with it. But here, you are just going with the desire to offend then, nothing else.

 

[evilartist]

I suppose their threats could have been ignored, and we could have not made May 20th into any kind of day. You know why we chose not to ignore the threats and murder? Because Comedy Central's owner, Viacom, crossed the damn line. Their shameless self-censorship is sending the wrong message to the rest of the modern world. This isn't just about spreading thin the number of "targets" for the extremists, but to let Viacom know that they fucked up and need to stop being afraid.

Networks, especially american networks, censor material all the time? How is this any different?
You think American Christian groups don't influence the networks? They OWN the networks, or some of them in any case. The american government policies are probably influenced in great degree by american religious groups as well. The only reason they don't use death threats is because they know that money works better.

Networks, especially American networks, censor things that are inappropriate, like excessive violence that can scar people (especially children), or foul and derogatory language that is considered tasteless by most social standards (racial slurs, gender slurs, etc.). Basically, if the content actually hurts someone, it's best to be censored. Depicting a religious figure does not hurt anyone!

And please, spare me remarks like "Well, they're offended so it does hurt someone and should be censored." No, it doesn't! Being an overly sensitive prude is different than genuine psychological damage. Showing a picture of Muhammad does not hurt these extremists in any way, save for any sort of disgusting context (like having relations with a goat; even I'm grossed out by that). Let's put it this way: if it doesn't corrupt or scar a child, there's no reason to censor it. If a fully-developed, independent-thinking adult can't handle a cartoon (not even in a graphic or adult context, mind you), then there's something wrong with that person. They're the problems here, Akalabeth, not us. Quit justifying their ridiculous religious crusade.

What about this do you think is "troll-worthy"? Just what about this is "hate mongering"? Please, feel free to answer. That wasn't rhetorical.

Troll worthy? Well let's see, in recent news we know muslims were demonstrating in the streets because someone put Mohammad in a Dutch editorial cartoon. Thus we KNOW for a fact, that it pisses them off to the point of basically rioting. So then someone starts a facebook group to piss them off even more? "We know this is going to make you mad, and that's why we're gonna do it." Isn't that the very definition of a troll? Or here's an idea, howabout we make May 20th "American Flag Burning Day". Will people take offense to that? You bet they will. Won't that be trolling and mongering hate?? And what's the difference?

No, just no...read back what you wrote/typed, Aka. Mohammad was depicted in a Dutch editorial cartoon, and Muslims rioted because of it. Now, I don't really know editorial cartoons for being "edgy" or "adult," so I'm going to assume he's not screwing a minor or doing something disgusting like that.

With that said, why the hell are you ignoring the bigger problem? If a spoiled boy starts screaming and throwing things because his mom told him to put Call of Duty down and do his homework, the proper reaction isn't to back off and give him the controller back. She should punish the little bastard and make him complete his assignments. These Muslim extremists are out of control, wailing about something completely trivial, all because of barbaric beliefs that Allah will get pissed by a group of lines in the shape of the prophet. Do you not get why you're being part of the problem right now? Why are you treating the facebook group like they're the wrong ones? Are you not getting my point?

You seem to think the intent of the facebook page was just to offend, which if it were true, that would be the definition of a troll. However, that was not why Draw Muhammad Day was founded. It was made out of protest to the ridiculous censorship Comedy Central. They felt threatened, so it was the job of artists like me to take some of the burden off of the network. The extremists can't focus all their attention on Parker, Stone, or the executives when there's thousands of artists making art of Muhammad.

If there were a dedicated "American Flag Burning Day," I doubt Americans would riot over something like that (too busy having cardiac arrest off their 10th whopper, I'm sure). First of all, that's already a traditional practice of protest in this country. Second, Americans like us may often be stupid, but at least most of us weren't raised to think we should kill someone over burning our country's flag, something that's not even based on the stupidity of religion. And third, while personally, I feel upset and disheartened when someone burns my flag, I know I can always FUCKING LOOK AWAY! Goddamn, I can't believe I have to explain this, like it's really so hard to figure out.

As for hate mongering. It's a well known fact that they take offense at the notion, so rather than trying to reconcile anything you simply ignore Muslim's ideaology even more. Those muslims who have a problem with the west, have another reason to keep to that view. While those in the west continue to show flagrant disregard for the muslim religion.

The problem is that they threaten us with violence if we don't conform to their ideology. It's our job in Western society to make an example of this screaming brat who wants its way. If they want to get along with the rest of the world and prosper, they need to learn that no one's religious views are more important than another's.

By the way, that very last remark you made about us showing "flagrant disregard for the Muslim religion." I need to ask: what do you care? Are you a Muslim? Please, be honest, too. It's not like I'm going to shun you for it or anything. I'm asking this because I just need to know what you're gaining from defending these extremists. Seriously, what's in it for you?

This isn't a double standard either because the standards don't apply in this case. The issue is not about people making fun of Mohammad, it's about people DEPICTING mohammad. If south park made fun of muslims or islam in general it probably wouldn't be an issue. Hell if South park made fun of mohammad, without depicting him, it probably wouldn't be as much of an issue either. As for the other religions, Jesus, Buddha, Krishna and whoever else have no such problem as they adorn churches and temples the world over.

I don't understand your point in this paragraph. There are mosques all over the world, too.

 

[evilartist]

2) To spread thin the number of people extremists can focus their wrath onto. Muslim extremists murdered Theo Van Gogh because he was a relatively high-profile figure who did something "blasphemous". Trey Parker and Matt Stone were threatened also because of their fame brought on by South Park. However, if everybody started depicting Muhammad, then the crazies would have to think twice about attempting to kill so many blasphemers.

Why would they have a problem? You're already increasing the legitimacy of their propaganda material. Since you're doing their job for them, they could just rely on more recruits.

Well, if you have a better idea, I'd like to hear it. While there is always a chance for backlash like you've described (there are risks for most decisions you make in life), I'm hoping that the majority of Muslims (I mean non-extremists) are going to know better than buying into the propaganda. It's only those extremists who grew up with such harsh and violent indoctrination who would actually find this "legitimacy" a justifiable reason to commit murder.

 

[Fangface74]

Your freedom of religion ends where my freedom of expression begins. Here in the Western World, sacrilege is NOT a crime. I could post a picture of various religious figures sodomizing each other, and there is NO LEGAL ACTION WHATSOEVER that adherents of those religions could take other than call me names. At that point, however, I'd probably have a pretty strong case for a defamation of character lawsuit.

Take note people, it really is this simple...end of.