Pakistan Bans Facebook Over "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day"

[MercenaryCanary]

They took down the page.
...
Sigh.

 

[Billion Backs]

snip

We are no better: holy inquisition, crusades, creationism e.t.c I am of the opinion that Christianity is proven to be by far a more dangerous religion. Islam is a relatively new religion which suffers from "infantile" diseases such as these displays of extremism. And by drawing muhamad you attack Islam not the extremists. It's just a mindless provocation which will only feed and justify fanaticism. Also stereotyping (West's most popular hobby) is really really bad. My family traveled to Egypt and Afghanistan and met a lot of muslims on the way. They are kind and hospitable folks not terrorists as the conservative media portray them.
I never said that the western civilisation is worse, but as a civilised person I chose not to partake in horrible and foolish provocations such as "Draw Muhamad Day". I believe dialogue is the best way to settle our differences and as we are "more civilised" (in your own words) that's what we should be doing.

There's no point in having a chat with someone who inherently sees it as a weakness. You can be as diplomatic as you want about it, and it sure as hell won't get you anywhere. You really don't need any extra provocation when it comes to extremist religion. They're at it anyways, their holy mission tells them to.

Just being meek and friendly will only get you walked over. I mean, look at multiculturalism in England and certain other unlucky European countries. Sharia laws basically already made it there, all because of this weak stance towards other cultures. At least France didn't pussy out as much as everyone else.

And when I was talking about Western culture, I was referring more to the whole more or less secular movement that started, arguably, with the formation of USA which was never a "Christian nation" as some people claim. Hell, most of the founding fathers weren't even Christians, and they certainly made it very clear that they do not want religion - any religion - to be ruling the state. (And in Islamic countries, I might add, it does).

Various ideologies and practices that ultimately lead to Secular Humanism, is what I'm talking about.

Of course, a lot of bullshit philosophy on this matter kind of depends on fairly deep concepts. If someone lives in a complete shithole and due to complete blissful ignorance doesn't know any place better, so he or she enjoys the current state of events completely, is it realistic to expect of them to support some rather outlandish (to them) concept?

 

[Dommyboy]

I enjoy the page. Mass trolling that has succeeded greatly. Though the Muslims barely realise that they're inciting more people to mock them, with the huge amount of comments that are made up of broken English.

 

[Generic_Dave]

"I do not agree with a word you have to say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it." (Often attributed to Voltaire)

Also, as far as I'm aware this isn't a rule based on the Koran, but one of the bits added after, so it is not even really a dictate of the book. I have to say...I think that it is a bit of an over-reaction...how come there were not riots and the like when suicide bombers hit the Towers? Surely mass murder is much more "against" any religion than cartoons...but then again its all about "WHO" breaks the religion's rules...

Anyway, thin end of wedge kinda thing, and its an argument I'm on both sides of, here in Europe I'm against legislating out the face covering female clothing often associated with Islam as I'm against restricting what people can wear. Or what people can say.

Lets just let everyone alone shall we? Besides, surely "GOD" will punish us all after we die for being Atheist Heathens anyways...

[EDIT] Also I would note that Pakistan banning Facebook might have a realpolitik spin too...Pakistan is a rather unstable country. Insurgency, a basic war with the Pakistani Taliban and a government that seems constantly at its own throat, not to mention a fractious relationship with its neighbours. Perhaps Pakistan decided this was a good excuse to get rid of an uncensored communication medium to prevent organised opposition? After all...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10150748.stm

But hey, maybe I'm a paranoid.

 

[Player 2]

You know what amazes me? Nobody actually knows what mohamed looks like. So nobody can draw an accurate pic of him. Will I get a deathtread if I draw a stickman and say it's mohamed? Probably not.

Spoiler: Yes

One of the "offensive" Danish cartoons.

 

[AWAR]

snip

We are no better: holy inquisition, crusades, creationism e.t.c I am of the opinion that Christianity is proven to be by far a more dangerous religion. Islam is a relatively new religion which suffers from "infantile" diseases such as these displays of extremism. And by drawing muhamad you attack Islam not the extremists. It's just a mindless provocation which will only feed and justify fanaticism. Also stereotyping (West's most popular hobby) is really really bad. My family traveled to Egypt and Afghanistan and met a lot of muslims on the way. They are kind and hospitable folks not terrorists as the conservative media portray them.
I never said that the western civilisation is worse, but as a civilised person I chose not to partake in horrible and foolish provocations such as "Draw Muhamad Day". I believe dialogue is the best way to settle our differences and as we are "more civilised" (in your own words) that's what we should be doing.

There's no point in having a chat with someone who inherently sees it as a weakness. You can be as diplomatic as you want about it, and it sure as hell won't get you anywhere.

Just being meek and friendly will only get you walked over. I mean, look at multiculturalism in England and certain other unlucky European countries. Sharia laws basically already made it there, all because of this weak stance towards other cultures. At least France didn't pussy out as much as everyone else.

And when I was talking about Western culture, I was referring more to the whole more or less secular movement that started, arguably, with the formation of USA which was never a "Christian nation" as some people claim. Hell, most of the founding fathers weren't even Christians, and they certainly made it very clear that they do not want religion - any religion - to be ruling the state. (And in Islamic countries, I might add, it does).

Various ideologies and practices that ultimately lead to Secular Humanism, is what I'm talking about.

We were talking about religious extremism and "Draw Muhammad Day" not immigration, definitely there is a weak stance towards Muslims in England but I dont want to get into that. Also there is a huge difference between Secular Humanism and Western supremacism.

 

[Billion Backs]

We were talking about religious extremism and "Draw Muhammad Day" not immigration, definitely there is a weak stance towards Muslims in England but I dont want to get into that. Also there is a huge difference between Secular Humanism and Western supremacism.

If expecting equal rights for all people, free speech, real education and removal of religion from its position of unquestionable power are attributes of Western supremacism, I wouldn't be ashamed to be a part of that movement.

The main problem is western guilt. Our culture IS superior as most things go, unless you're going to argue against basic human rights. Sure, I argue against them plenty of times as a nihilist. But that doesn't magically stop them from being one of the best damn things as values go.

Seriously. Tell me what Islam has on it. No excuses.

Comparable equality of sexes? Not even.
Same thing for races? Well, I don't think Koran focuses on races that much, although anti-semitism seems to be common for Extremists. But then again, they're in the same niche, and religion is a cutthroat business.
Freedom of expression and speech in regards to almost everything? Yeah, they don't have that either. Do you really need me to explain to you the importance of these rights?

What they do have, however, is a religion with fundamental belief that all the heathens are going to hell (well, not really, I don't think Islam got hell. If I'm not mistaken, in Islamic version of armageddon, all the "bad people" just get to roast in lava until they get purified or some shit) and that it's the merciful thing to help them go. Sure, Christianity has some very similar messages, but at least it got castrated thanks to, yes, the awesome western power and all it can do now is whine about moral decay and stuff.

Yes, I think I can very easily say that the Western civilization completely kicks the ass of any other civilization out there, currently.

 

[DTWolfwood]

Hypocrites!

 

[Gardenia]

freedom of speech == freedom to insult.

Fixed your typo for you. It actually is, so long as it is not expression for the purpose of provoking a fight.

I agree with you Calatar. Freedom of speech is not a freedom if it only covers things people want to hear.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Well, the page is ignorant and retarded and personally, I think it should be removed. Idiots should not be tolerated.

So people who stand for free speach and freedom of press are "idiots and should not be tolerated"? I can only assume you are muslum or some other rediculous religous extremist who atempts to impose your views on others. These brave people brought opposition to muslum extremist who needed to be reminded that they can belive what they want. Don't attempt to convice the world that they are correct in their views by threatening death to all who oppose them. They brought this upon them selves with the death threats, hopefully isolation from major internet sites will make them realize there foolishness. And if not at least I will no longer have to deal with them online...

Should I bother justifying this response? Clearly you don't understand. The page is needlessley offensive, and if anyone thought it might help in the slightest then they need some serious help. "These brave people"! ha! Brave! Bullshit. It's not like terrorists are going to go around everyone's house and kill them. No, the people in the group have nothing to fear, they're just mocking a religion because they're too stupid to handle the situation maturely.

 

[Benjamin Grin]

Picture a thousand people all gathering together to draw Jesus on the cross sodomising children. This is what your page has achieved.

Many of you who support the page speak of the propaganda surrounding Islam. You rage against an entire religion, an entire region of the world, because you believe they either want to enslave us, or see us dead. Take a step back. Think, for just a second. You get extremists in every religion. They are -always- the most vocal members of that religion. This is the truth the world over.

You are frothing at the mouth at the thought of them because you believe that they're all scum. You've been told daily for the past few years that every muslim is a backwards savage who wants to murder you and everyone you love, and now you believe it.

Where's the propaganda there?

 

[maninahat]

Because its relavent to this discussion you should probably watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ok4njJXI8

The guy sounds like a condescending asshole: "(I paraphrase) The west is a glorious bastion of freedom, science and culture whilst the East is a hostile, primitive desert mob."

Well if were paraphrasing now, lets take a look at the angry mobs point of view:

"FREEDOM GO TO HELL"
"EUROPE WILL PAY"
"WE WANT DANISH BLOOD"
"SLAY THOSE WHO INSULT ISLAM"
"BUTCHER THOSE WHO MOCK ISLAM"
"BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT ISLAM"

Either way i have no like of religion and the especially the way religion controls nations over there.

And because this just became relavent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbuxJieyFxg&playnext_from=TL&videos=neJ7_CzdC78&feature=sub

Now make your argument.

I for one do not see the vitriolic posters of an angry mob as an accurate and representative display of Islam as a whole. Not that you weren't exactly paraphrasing anyway; pictures of violent protesters was about the entire extent the video director went to examining the Islamic point of view. One could point out that in a society where free speech is "non-negotiable", these extremists should be allowed to display such blood thirsty posters without cendemnation or culpability.

FREEDOM is the buzz word here; These protestors want "freedom to go to hell" not because they despise the actual concept of freedom, but because they perceive the West's "freedom" as a device which serves to excuse westerners for openly insulting their culture unabated.

This whole carry on is supposed to be targeted at Muslim extremists, but really, events like "draw Muhammed day" antagonise all muslims. If they can think of a way to take the piss out of terrorists without insulting blameless members of the public, then by all means, have a ball.

Your original video talked about "what other religion behaves like this"? Well, historically almost all religions have, as well as most ethnicities, nations, and peoples behaved in such a way. I might hold this against religion (as well as ethnicities, peoples, nations etc.) except I realise that a riots and fanatacism do not represent any group as a whole.

Lets look at your video regarding the mal-treatment of women by Islam. Yes, it is terrible (from my cultural perspective) to see such cruel and unjust punishments being acted out against women. But I don't condemn Islam alone for it. Stonings, female concealment etc. have been around before Islam and Sharia law. They are part of a much older Arabic heritage. Sharia law was only adopting practises that were already familiar at the time.

That is why when you examine Islamic countries that are further from the source, you see women being treated quite differently. In Northern african Berber society, it is actually the women who hold the top positions society and the men who have to cover their faces in public. This is because whilst they are devoutly Muslim, their local, matriarcal heritage has the greater cultural and political influence. In Indonesia (the country with the largest population of Muslims in the World) and you can see an example of a free, secular state which has not adopted Sharia law, but embraced religious and cultural diversity.

I dislike Sharia law, and Muslim extremism as most people, but the "draw Mo day" is insulting to anyone of a Muslim faith, not just the extremists.

Phew, long post. I think I need a t

 

[Remleiz]

Well he is a sacred figure to them. If they want facebook banned then i wont fight it.

Maybe... Just maybe, everyone does not want these websites banned in India and Pakistan.

I know it sounds crazy, but just think about for a while.

It just goes back to the old saying
"if you dont want to see it, don't look at it" they have eyes they can close, they don't HAVE to visit the website, they have self restraint. The site should not be banned, but if they dont wanna see it they shouldnt look

End of

 

[samstewiefisher]

The page should be allowed. Im sick of people having to bend over backwards so as not to thread on religious toes. Why cant people just see religion as a personal thing. Maybe it is wrong to draw mohammed, but whats it got to do with anybody else if i do.

 

[Jonluw]

So, to all the supporters of the muslim extremists here. Why is it okay that the extremists take offence at a drawing, when it apparently is not okay for me to take offence at their taking offence?

 

[Les Awesome]

Look!!!
just remove the freakin page and we can all go home
and say job well done and maybe pat ourselves on back if we do it by next week

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

Look!!!
just remove the freakin page and we can all go home
and say job well done and maybe pat ourselves on back if we do it by next week

The already did, so you can go home now. They removed not long after the day, as apparently there where too many trolls posting porn in it.

 

[Captain Pancake]

It may be hypocritical, but what else can they do? Piss off an entire country, or the entirety of their userbase?

 

[ezeroast]

Islam is a messed up path anyway, whole bunch of do as I say, or I kill you!

As opposed to do as i say otherwise after you die i will torture you forever.

Or the do as the law says or be sent to jail

yea but that one has loopholes

Actually so do some religions