Ok so micro transactions aimed at kids is a bad thing and all but the real problem here is inattentive parents. Too many adults these days, even in my own family have their kids hooked on iPods. I've seen kids squall and the parent blindly hands them their phone to shut them up. It's what TV was to my generation, a big, flashy, electronic babysitter.
Parents Suing Apple Over In-Game Purchasing
- Thread starter Hevva
- Start date
Have you considered supervising your children instead of leaving Uncle iPhone to entertain them for a few more hours? Don't give them any passwords - start the game for them and call it at that.
I'd never leave such a thing in the hands of a child if it's my name on the bill, because I'm shit out of luck if they run up a huge bill.
Also the polite but firm "Do not buy anything in the games. Ask me if you're not sure."
Y'know, parenting.
I'd never leave such a thing in the hands of a child if it's my name on the bill, because I'm shit out of luck if they run up a huge bill.
Also the polite but firm "Do not buy anything in the games. Ask me if you're not sure."
Y'know, parenting.
Of course not. Crash Bandicoot stopped being good once it got to PS2. I'm afraid the only way they will know the joy of Crash Bandicoot is if you got them the three games (and possibly CTR and Crash Bash) on PS1.Hevva said:
Also, I was going to make my own comment, but someone already made it for me.
gigastar said:
So what someone has your password and used it to buy songs on your itunes, and this is somehow apples fault? Doesn't make any sense to me.MorganL4 said:
OT - As stated numerous times above I fail to see how this law suit can possible go anywhere, Especially seeing as how new steps have been put in place. Ultimately its the parents fault, even if there should be more steps involved to stop buying stuff, its hardly Apples fault that you let your child go and buy it all.
There is no way to 'beat' most of these games and that is the point. You just keep playing it until you either get bored or are willing to spend the money to get that new shiny object that nobody else you know has.
And I do not just base these things off of playing some game. I not only know a lot of people who play these sort of games but I have also done research on the types of people who play them. While the Smurfs may be targeted at children the people who are legitimately paying money for these games are usually adults who are fully willing to do it. You also can't blame a company that includes this system in every one of their games for including it in one that has children as the perceived target demographic. Perhaps they expect people who play there other games and who remember the Smurfs from their childhoods to give this game a shot and find it fun.
And if you honestly think that it is an issue that the password is help onto for a few minutes simply do not enter your password on anything before your child plays the game. If it wants to update say no and wait until after they are finished to update. If you buy something simply do not hand it to them right away. Alternatively simply turn the device off and on if you can't wait a few minutes to make your brat be quiet.
Or you could be a decent human being and interact with your child. Sure that might not always be an option but when you are interacting with them you teach them the differences between right and wrong and that there are consequences for breaking the rules. Then when they do break the rules because you trusted them with something they could not handle since you have not enforced any of your rules you grow some balls and take the game away from them. If you are really worried make it so you can not buy anything even with the passwords entered or you can not connect to the internet. Problem solved.
And I do not just base these things off of playing some game. I not only know a lot of people who play these sort of games but I have also done research on the types of people who play them. While the Smurfs may be targeted at children the people who are legitimately paying money for these games are usually adults who are fully willing to do it. You also can't blame a company that includes this system in every one of their games for including it in one that has children as the perceived target demographic. Perhaps they expect people who play there other games and who remember the Smurfs from their childhoods to give this game a shot and find it fun.
And if you honestly think that it is an issue that the password is help onto for a few minutes simply do not enter your password on anything before your child plays the game. If it wants to update say no and wait until after they are finished to update. If you buy something simply do not hand it to them right away. Alternatively simply turn the device off and on if you can't wait a few minutes to make your brat be quiet.
Or you could be a decent human being and interact with your child. Sure that might not always be an option but when you are interacting with them you teach them the differences between right and wrong and that there are consequences for breaking the rules. Then when they do break the rules because you trusted them with something they could not handle since you have not enforced any of your rules you grow some balls and take the game away from them. If you are really worried make it so you can not buy anything even with the passwords entered or you can not connect to the internet. Problem solved.
So... retarded parents verses douche companies with in-game purchases.
People i want to punch in the face vs people i want to punch in the face.
Damn, it's hard to decide who i should go for in this case.
Can we just remove both from the planet with, like, fire or something?
People i want to punch in the face vs people i want to punch in the face.
Damn, it's hard to decide who i should go for in this case.
Can we just remove both from the planet with, like, fire or something?
This argument seems a bit silly. It seems about as effective as rallying against supermarkets having a selection of goodies by the checkout line, because they entice you to impulse buy things you didn't plan for, but now want to buy. Microtransactions like this are actually a veritable steady source of income, and whatever that means for the consumer, they're probably around to stay.
Wow. Just wow.
Exactly this. Shouldn't they be going after the creators? That, or they could just become better parents, you know, whatever's easier.Erana said:
I really hate many of Apple policies and effects Apple marketing has on people but this is not something Apple has to answer for alone.
On the other hand combination of pleasurable, addictive and predatory activity is a problem. Most games today are more focused on their addictive tropes then on actual joy of gaming. Modern Warfare didn't explode because it was such a leap of quality in multiplayer gaming. It's leveling method, and clear advantage gained from that method, are means created to give false sense of accomplishment on regular basis which is one of the most psychologically addictive reward to be had. It's quick in the beginning to establish addiction and drawn on later to tie player down to a product. Add to that simple and almost hidden means of subsidizing the experience with money and you have a problem. Because then it's not any different than a addictive drug. Unfortunately, health of minors are not anywhere on governments priority list.
Smoking is mostly psychologically addictive and is banned from the children. Carbonated sodas like coca-cola are psychologically addictive too (physically too, sugar rush addiction works both ways) but they are OK.Difference is that people managed to pressure tobacco companies and governments into admitting the truth and soda companies would get their profits cut by huge margin if they had to mark their products as bad for health. Hell, minors are prohibited from obtaining alcohol drinks and red wine, in reasonable quantities, is well known as great for blood and immune system. Many old strong liqueurs are actually very effective medicine for various illness like heartburn, indigestion, low or high blood pressure, anemia and so on.
So, Apple is not to take most of the blame for this one, but games like this should be regulated. Simple law which would fore game and OS designers to implement these features
- OS support for separate in game accounts.
- Ability to group in game accounts into some sort of master accounts
- Ability to link in game/master accounts to main (financial) account.
- Ability to limit spending via in game/master accounts either on per time period basis or by manually transferring funds.
- Requirement of password input for purchase. Mass purchases available only through checkout system with clearly stated total which has to be dominant number on the screen.
would allow this form of business to operate and still be controlled and moderated. Now, bad parents will still get screwed over (nothing can prevent dumb/uninterested/unatentive parents and spoiled kids) but at least addictive behavior would be regulated as it should be. Again, I doubt this will happen since so many other addictive and potentially health degrading products are blessed by our governments but one can hope.
On the other hand combination of pleasurable, addictive and predatory activity is a problem. Most games today are more focused on their addictive tropes then on actual joy of gaming. Modern Warfare didn't explode because it was such a leap of quality in multiplayer gaming. It's leveling method, and clear advantage gained from that method, are means created to give false sense of accomplishment on regular basis which is one of the most psychologically addictive reward to be had. It's quick in the beginning to establish addiction and drawn on later to tie player down to a product. Add to that simple and almost hidden means of subsidizing the experience with money and you have a problem. Because then it's not any different than a addictive drug. Unfortunately, health of minors are not anywhere on governments priority list.
Smoking is mostly psychologically addictive and is banned from the children. Carbonated sodas like coca-cola are psychologically addictive too (physically too, sugar rush addiction works both ways) but they are OK.Difference is that people managed to pressure tobacco companies and governments into admitting the truth and soda companies would get their profits cut by huge margin if they had to mark their products as bad for health. Hell, minors are prohibited from obtaining alcohol drinks and red wine, in reasonable quantities, is well known as great for blood and immune system. Many old strong liqueurs are actually very effective medicine for various illness like heartburn, indigestion, low or high blood pressure, anemia and so on.
So, Apple is not to take most of the blame for this one, but games like this should be regulated. Simple law which would fore game and OS designers to implement these features
- OS support for separate in game accounts.
- Ability to group in game accounts into some sort of master accounts
- Ability to link in game/master accounts to main (financial) account.
- Ability to limit spending via in game/master accounts either on per time period basis or by manually transferring funds.
- Requirement of password input for purchase. Mass purchases available only through checkout system with clearly stated total which has to be dominant number on the screen.
would allow this form of business to operate and still be controlled and moderated. Now, bad parents will still get screwed over (nothing can prevent dumb/uninterested/unatentive parents and spoiled kids) but at least addictive behavior would be regulated as it should be. Again, I doubt this will happen since so many other addictive and potentially health degrading products are blessed by our governments but one can hope.
Okay, so taking this from a more substantial standpoint than 'easily angered geek', this lawsuit presents an interesting dilemma.
On the one hand, the parents are partially correct. Games that almost force you to pay for nebulous digital currencies are underhanded. But on the other hand, this isn't really Apples fault, and they've done their part to reduce this method of cash grabbing.
Really, I think these disgruntled people should take up their problems with the game creators, and not the service that provides the games.
On the one hand, the parents are partially correct. Games that almost force you to pay for nebulous digital currencies are underhanded. But on the other hand, this isn't really Apples fault, and they've done their part to reduce this method of cash grabbing.
Really, I think these disgruntled people should take up their problems with the game creators, and not the service that provides the games.
Parents who give their children something, like access to the internet, an iphone, or a console.. and then give their children their credit card information or input it themselves, should be held 100% responsible for any purchase and expected, no matter how large, to pay up.
There should be no avenue for complaint or legal action. No mattetr what the situation.
Parent should, at all times, be held 100% responsible for their childrens actions. They are responsible for the children, and for teaching them how to behave and what to do.
This also includes content gates, age ratings, and all other things designed for use by adults.
If at any tiome an adult is inconvenienced in any manner when trying to access something designed for adult, by "child safety" features then that feature is taking it to far and should be removed.
I don't care if the arguement is "omg, my kid might spend $1000 on a game" or "omg my child might see porn" or "I don't want my child watching the Human Centipede". You are the parent, you are responsible, it is your problem. Don't inconveience your fellow adults who are looking to use things designed for them.
As a side note.. yes, I am a parent.
There should be no avenue for complaint or legal action. No mattetr what the situation.
Parent should, at all times, be held 100% responsible for their childrens actions. They are responsible for the children, and for teaching them how to behave and what to do.
This also includes content gates, age ratings, and all other things designed for use by adults.
If at any tiome an adult is inconvenienced in any manner when trying to access something designed for adult, by "child safety" features then that feature is taking it to far and should be removed.
I don't care if the arguement is "omg, my kid might spend $1000 on a game" or "omg my child might see porn" or "I don't want my child watching the Human Centipede". You are the parent, you are responsible, it is your problem. Don't inconveience your fellow adults who are looking to use things designed for them.
As a side note.. yes, I am a parent.
So, should we also sue gun-makers because someone used a gun to murder someone else? Should we sue makers of kitchen cutlery because someone used a cleaver to kill someone else? Should we sue car makers because someone purposefully ran over another person? Just because a company makes something doesn't make them immediately culpable to the abuses fostered by others, because even the most benign object can have unintended uses to inflict harm on others (for example, I could kill someone using just a sheet of paper). Unless that company is deliberately producing a product which clearly and demonstrably design with the exact intended purpose to commit some harmful, criminal, or illegal action against another, it seems to me that it is difficult to hold the maker of the product culpable to the actions of those abuse the purpose and design of the product such to inflict undue harm or loss on others. Certainly, the case can be made that a micro-transaction system is not built with the expressed purpose of inflicting undue harm or loss upon others.DiamanteGeeza said:
The only real reason Apple is being targeted in this law-suit is because they are a high-profile company with $98 billion in cash. Otherwise, the suit would go after the true culprits here, the people that made a game intentionally designed to exploit the poor judgement of children to scam hundreds of dollars from parents (and parents too silly to realize that they shouldn't let their children have access to or use of the family financial accounts).
Honestly, seeing any app or game, whether on the App Store or elsewhere, with an in-app purchase of $99 should immediately send the Bullshit Detector(TM) into a frenzy signaling one to avoid such an app like the plague, or at least examine it much more closely and thinking carefully through potential consequences before purchasing such an app or game.
ITT: bad parents blaming other people for their unwillingness to watch and interact their own children.
Dude, I don't even know my itunes password, I use a program called keypass where I plug in the parameters for a password given to me by a website ( in this case apple) and it generates it, and keeps it in an encrypted database, I know 1 password, the one I use to access that database, and that particular password is pretty damn tough to crack ( I made sure that if I was gonna memorize 1 password it would be complex) So YEAH actually considering that I have made the password as strong as it can be by apples specifications IT IS their fault if it gets hacked, they set the parameters NOT ME.Timmey said:
when I plug in a password it is copied and pasted. not typed.
When there's a 15 min window after the game's accessed that no checks are made for in-game purchases, that's not a parent being irresponsible. That's the game company slipping in a loophole so that a 6 yr old has 15 mins of credit access that the parents know nothing about. I very much doubt that anywhere in the game menus there is a disclaimer saying "For the first 15 minutes, credit access is automatically assumed to be from an adult so no blocks are in place." If that warning was there, up front, and not buried in an EULA, nobody would download the game. It's an obvious scam and the company deserves to be sued into oblivion.
