Parents Suing Apple Over In-Game Purchasing
- Thread starter Hevva
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And there, you've hit at the core of it.Hevva said:
Television commercials target kids, but (in general) televisions are in common rooms so that parents can easily monitor it. Computer games are often in off-common rooms, and are on smaller, more private screens. Supervising every single minute at the computer is just a bit tougher -- and believe me, as a teacher, I'm extremely tough on parents about supervision, so it's no small thing for me to admit it's harder to do here.
The problem is that companies know that. I don't have a problem with marketing that is meant to appeal to kids. I do have a problem with directly marketing to kids. Would you want an advertising executive or a lawyer to be able to call your child on a cell phone, or meet them on the playground, to discuss things? No. Because those people have no business engaging in financial dealings with children (who are easily misled by adults).
Now, Facebook games? They may be kid-friendly, but Facebook makes it pretty clear that kids shouldn't have Facebooks. The fact that so many parents ignore that is on them. But true "kid games" should not have real-money options waving in the face of kids.
There's already a ton of ways marketing exploits the gullibility of children. Cartoons are blatant commercials for toy lines. Commercials show toys doing things they can't actually do, and they put the tiny disclaimer at the bottom to cover their butts. Cereals have cartoon mascots to push an appeal that has nothing to do with whole grains.
I'm not saying this kind of stuff needs to be illegal, but we all know exactly what they're doing. By "we," I mean adults. It's natural for the marketing folks to put a spin on the product, but kids are far more susceptible to spin than adults. It would be irresponsible of us to allow them to target our kids unchecked.
Normally I'd disagree and say that the parents are over reacting, but the free to play, pay to win games dominating the app store are beyond a joke and are clearly aimed at those who are easier to manipulate.
Apple should not be taking the brunt of this, but those who are creating the games in the already over saturated market.
Apple should not be taking the brunt of this, but those who are creating the games in the already over saturated market.
In game purchases with real money is predatory and manipulative and that practice should be illegal. They don't even need to go after the individual developers to enforce it. Just go after the publishers like the apple store, android markets and companies like facebook that allow these games on their network.
Buyer beware is one thing but actual proven predatory commercial practice is morally, ethically and in some cases already illegal - as it should be.
Buyer beware is one thing but actual proven predatory commercial practice is morally, ethically and in some cases already illegal - as it should be.
I've been of the opinion for a while that microtransactions should be banned all together. Video games and digital products should be all inclusive, for one price... period. It's too open for abuse otherwise, and we're seeing that here with these kids. Not to mention the way psycology can be manipulated through them. Creating a deliberatly addictice game, in order to get people to spend money constantly, smacks very similar of earlier attempts to use things like subliminals and hypnosis in ads which were stopped (or at least we believe they were). A new way of acheiving the same thing in a more subtle fashion, is still the same thing.
That said, if this DOES ever happen, it's not likely to happen in the near future, and a lot depends on little suits snowballing at this point because we've already seen this entrenched in business.
To put it into perspective, when you have companies like Zynga more or less admitting they carefully construct their games to be addictive, and they are driven by microtransactions, I think there is a problem there.
What's more when it comes to psychological addiction, which I am guessing is a problem with this "Smurfs" game since it's still going on after the whole "wagons of smurfberries" incident, addicts by their very nature are going to go to extreme lengths to get their fix, including of legal things like cigarettes and alcohol. "Protections" of the sort mentioned here which can be circumvented mean absolutly nothing.
That said, if this DOES ever happen, it's not likely to happen in the near future, and a lot depends on little suits snowballing at this point because we've already seen this entrenched in business.
To put it into perspective, when you have companies like Zynga more or less admitting they carefully construct their games to be addictive, and they are driven by microtransactions, I think there is a problem there.
What's more when it comes to psychological addiction, which I am guessing is a problem with this "Smurfs" game since it's still going on after the whole "wagons of smurfberries" incident, addicts by their very nature are going to go to extreme lengths to get their fix, including of legal things like cigarettes and alcohol. "Protections" of the sort mentioned here which can be circumvented mean absolutly nothing.
GOODtorzath said:
These sorts of non-games that rely on microtransactions are a terrible thing for gaming, and are a morally reprehensible thing in the first place. I know, I know, with corporations, they are either morally bankrupt or financially bankrupt. But we should hold them to higher standards. I am always out for a profit for myself, but I wont go out of my way just to screw you over.
I can't believe it, but i'm on the side of the overreacting, moronic unfit parents this time around
Dude, relax! You asked why Apple were being sued, I told you. I didn't say I agree with it!geizr said:
The most important part of my post was the amount of cash Apple have in the bank....
Gods, I don't know who to hate more in this one: Negligent parents, creators of dubious "micro"transactions or Apple [http://www.seattlerex.com/seattle-rex-vs-apple-the-verdict-is-in/]. I think I'll just hate everyone.
That said, with every other e-commerce site on the Internet asking my password every time I so much as try to glance at my past orders, Apple was stupid for not having similar controls in place. (From what I heard when the smurfberry incident occurred, if you bought a song on iTunes and then handed the device over to your kid, the iTunes authorization carried over. THAT is insane.)
The only lesson I take away from this is that even the harmless icons of my childhood can be made into frontmen and shills for amoral profiteers. It ain't just rule 34 that's destroying my childhood anymore.
That said, with every other e-commerce site on the Internet asking my password every time I so much as try to glance at my past orders, Apple was stupid for not having similar controls in place. (From what I heard when the smurfberry incident occurred, if you bought a song on iTunes and then handed the device over to your kid, the iTunes authorization carried over. THAT is insane.)
The only lesson I take away from this is that even the harmless icons of my childhood can be made into frontmen and shills for amoral profiteers. It ain't just rule 34 that's destroying my childhood anymore.
There was a similar case in Norway, they talked about it on TV earlier this year. Same game and on an iPad, the kid spent more than 15,000 Norwegian krone, which would be equal to about $2,650. This kid was 5 or 6 years old, and I got to agree when they argue that microtransactions don't belong in a game for kids.
Yeah, you'll need to venture into my Steam account to find any kind of virtual property that has cost that kind of money. I don't know how much in-game content a "cart of smurfberries" buys at $99 a cart, but if anyone (adult or not) felt the need to rack up $1400 on the damn things it can't be good value for money...Eleima said:
I see the parents' side of the argument on this, and yeah, they shouldn't be enticing small children into these kinds of purchases.
But apple fixed it and they're still complaining so I take back my sympathy.
At some point you have to accept the fact it might just be your fault and you probably have to, ya know, raise your damn kids.
But apple fixed it and they're still complaining so I take back my sympathy.
At some point you have to accept the fact it might just be your fault and you probably have to, ya know, raise your damn kids.
...this is why 3-7 year old kides don't need an f***ing iphone or ipad. For the love of god why are people so damn stupid, here have this escapist forums peace out.
Once again parenting failure means someone else is responsible.
Now the method i like thats used in many mmos, is you have to buy "gold" or whatever OUT OF THE GAME, then you can use it ingame to buy those paid stuff. this way you cearly are aware you are paying real money for gold, thus such confussion never occurs (especially when you have ingame dollars and real dollars, lol)
Now the method i like thats used in many mmos, is you have to buy "gold" or whatever OUT OF THE GAME, then you can use it ingame to buy those paid stuff. this way you cearly are aware you are paying real money for gold, thus such confussion never occurs (especially when you have ingame dollars and real dollars, lol)
This whole pay2win strategy IS somewhat distasteful.
Suing Apple over making it possible is kinda akin to suing the road construction company for the danger of cars though ..
Suing Apple over making it possible is kinda akin to suing the road construction company for the danger of cars though ..
Sorry if I came across as pissy. I didn't mean it that way (I was actually quite relaxed when I was typing that post). I was simply trying to state a counter argument to the first point in your post. Clearly, we're both in agreement that the only reason Apple alone is being target is cause they have the money.DiamanteGeeza said:
EDIT: added more verbiage for clarity.
I find it funny how many parents are worried about the radiation that children could get from the radio waves that phones use, and yet will just give these very phones to their kids. It's almost as if parents aren't actually paying attention to anything they are saying; more like they are just spouting out nonsense and hearsay without even thinking.
If there child stole something from a store are they going to sue the store for having so many things within their childs reach? Is the store to blame for selling things kids want and crave? No. Also you teach your kids not to steal regardless if they really want it. Same with this case, just because the kid wanted it doesnt mean he should steal from his parents. Also if the parents wernt idiots they wouldnt leave their credit card details around so the kid could use it.
God forbid the parent would actually act like a parent instead of allowing there kid play games all day without supervision. Especially leaving cc details online. lol.
God forbid the parent would actually act like a parent instead of allowing there kid play games all day without supervision. Especially leaving cc details online. lol.
I guess there is only so much the law and companies can do. How can they prove their child made the purchases and had explicit parental consent? How can you achieve this online? All the passwords and security in the world are meaningless when the parents don't act responsibly with there card. After all its the adults card, they should be taking responsibility of what happens to it and the actions of their child. Its not the games companies problem. They are not responsible for the childs actions. We all know these games are addicting, if they wernt then no one would play them.Blablahb said:
When does parental responsibility end and company responsibility start? If the credit card is yours, it was you that stored it on the computer and it was your child that used the card behind your back and the parents lack of control that allowed the kid to do this. Why are they suing the company? Just sounds similar to the people suing McDonalds for making them fat.