Perv on a Japanese Schoolgirl in Tekken Team's Project Morpheus Demo

[Ruisu]

However, I would be against pornographic depictions of a child even if it weren't actually a child and was just a construction.

So I'm trying to disagree with the individual's misappropriation of the term to apply to non-humans while simultaneously not trying to say it's morally acceptable to depict, even fictionally, children in inappropriate ways even though there's no victim in a fictional construction.

Why would it not be morally acceptable? Isn't the whole issue with pedophily and child pornography the damage it can cause to the children involved? So what is morally wrong with the fictional depiction of the crime?

Am I not permitted to be morally against any depiction of such things? Would you disagree that the general consensus is that even fictional depictions of it are wrong?

Though, let's be clear. The video shown in this thread isn't that. This is what you make of it. If you have a fetish for school girls then it's dirty. If not, then it's an interactive sim of some kind.

Well, sorry if I came off more agressive than I intended. I'm not talking about the video itself anymore too, just trying to discuss personal views about the subject of fictional characters and such. I'm genuinely curious about what makes you (and other people) uneasy on the fact of people enjoying the fantasy of something that in real life is condemned.

 

[Lightknight]

However, I would be against pornographic depictions of a child even if it weren't actually a child and was just a construction.

So I'm trying to disagree with the individual's misappropriation of the term to apply to non-humans while simultaneously not trying to say it's morally acceptable to depict, even fictionally, children in inappropriate ways even though there's no victim in a fictional construction.

Why would it not be morally acceptable? Isn't the whole issue with pedophily and child pornography the damage it can cause to the children involved? So what is morally wrong with the fictional depiction of the crime?

Am I not permitted to be morally against any depiction of such things? Would you disagree that the general consensus is that even fictional depictions of it are wrong?

Though, let's be clear. The video shown in this thread isn't that. This is what you make of it. If you have a fetish for school girls then it's dirty. If not, then it's an interactive sim of some kind.

Well, sorry if I came off more agressive than I intended. I'm not talking about the video itself anymore too, just trying to discuss personal views about the subject of fictional characters and such. I'm genuinely curious about what makes you (and other people) uneasy on the fact of people enjoying the fantasy of something that in real life is condemned.

Aside from the distaste of it? I suppose it comes down to the slippery slope argument that this may evolve into harming real children by supporting the consumption of this kind of stuff.

Sure, me killing people in video games doesn't translate into me killing people in real life. I get that. So I understand that this is a slippery slope argument that doesn't necessarily follow. But there's just something socially driving me to have an extreme distaste for anything that feels harmful to children. A bias, sure, but I also have a bias against murder so biases aren't necessarily wrong or bad when it comes to morality.

Can I ask you why you believe murder to be wrong (assuming you do)?

 

[Ruisu]

Aside from the distaste of it? I suppose it comes down to the slippery slope argument that this may evolve into harming real children by supporting the consumption of this kind of stuff.

Sure, me killing people in video games doesn't translate into me killing people in real life. I get that. So I understand that this is a slippery slope argument that doesn't necessarily follow. But there's just something socially driving me to have an extreme distaste for anything that feels harmful to children. A bias, sure, but I also have a bias against murder so biases aren't necessarily wrong or bad when it comes to morality.

Can I ask you why you believe murder to be wrong (assuming you do)?

Well then I suppose I have some bias myself since I'm kind of a lolicon, though that's more due to the "moe" appeal of anime girls than age itself. (My actual girlfriend could pass as minor with the right clothes for example, but I'm not personally attracted to "innocence" or some BS like that)

And murder... well I don't have any personal experience with murder to say for sure, so the only thing that would "drive" me to say murder is wrong is the natural idea that dying is not good. Not the "cease to exist" part of it, just the idea of ultimately losing everything. So taking a life would be wrong in the basic concept.

But then, is just weird to me, try and bring these concepts into a fantasy, a personal fantasy at that. Is like the discussion of outright killing in a game and torturing someone. The graphic nature of torture can make you uneasy, sure, so maybe that is not for you, but would that make the torture itself wrong in a virtual, fictitious environment?
And since in the end is all make-believe, how different is that from killing bystanders in a "fun, non-graphical" way?

It's quite okay to judge those things inside their context of a virtual reality, but personally, I don't think we can say a game is wrong for letting people indulge in some fantasies, even if they are "revolting" in real life for whatever reasons.

 

[LazyAza]

The unfortunate reality, and I realize many people will find this difficult to accept, is that if this tech or rather these devices want to ever have a chance of succeeding in a huge way then the porn industry - especially the animated porn industry (which yes is millions of times huger than most people posting here are probably aware as its not just japan in to this stuff in a big way), is going to have to do very well with it initially.

Porn actually helped people accept dvd as a format in a huge way. Online video streaming - again porn industry really made it become a huge thing.

Its a sad truth but a very real one; porn always helps drive innovation and acceptance of certain technologies. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the number one selling application for virtual headsets in the future is some kind of porn sim game.

Depressing perhaps but then that's humanity for you.

I honestly don't get why it's depressing.

Humanity is more willing to accept something that targets it's baser instincts, yeah, no shizz.

Violent games are a huge seller because of power fantasies, junk food makes ridiculous money because it tastes good, hell the only reason the Australian Crocodile has been saved from extinction is because they're now being farmed for hand bag material.

Basic desires are like raw vegetables, they arn't gourmet but they're still good for you.

I'm not saying VR in the place of actual social interaction and relationships is healthy (although that could be said for any medium) but a bit of porn isn't going to hurt anyone; just like anything else, when used moderately, it's healthy.

I do feel bad for the crocodiles though... over two hundred million years of evolution to wind up strung over the arm of some fashionista... with naught inside but a miniature dog, matching purse and the weeping soul of a predator.

It's depressing because as a species we should be I don't know, more evolved? yeah human beings are naturally drawn to sex and violence, its in our nature, but you'd think by now it wouldn't quite as easily be such a huge draw and such a deciding factor in so many things. I think entertainment and creativity in general would benefit greatly from moving a little further away from having to overtly pander so often.

 

[burnout02urza]

It's depressing because as a species we should be I don't know, more evolved? yeah human beings are naturally drawn to sex and violence, its in our nature, but you'd think by now it wouldn't quite as easily be such a huge draw and such a deciding factor in so many things. I think entertainment and creativity in general would benefit greatly from moving a little further away from having to overtly pander so often.

But I like being pandered too. That's the point of entertainment.

Like, without fun, what's left? Sitting in a circle and going on about how enlightened and spiritually moved we were? We will always, always like sex and violence. Until there's something better than that (Which I don't believe is possible) we'll always be wired that way.

It's fulfilling a need that we can't get in real life. It's fun you can't have anywhere else.

 

[Deshin]

It's depressing because as a species we should be I don't know, more evolved? yeah human beings are naturally drawn to sex and violence, its in our nature, but you'd think by now it wouldn't quite as easily be such a huge draw and such a deciding factor in so many things.

(oooh I've wanted to use thie spiel for a while now! This isn't directed at you personally, just a general rant for this subject) *clears throat*

We are the end result of millions, nay, BILLIONS of years of evolution. Evolution which hinged entirely on boning and screwing as frequently as possible in order to achieve maximum proliferation of genes. The very fact we are here right is down to the fact we're hard-wired to want to fuck anything that can be successfully fucked. The notion of "not" screwing or killing everything that moves is a fairly recent concept as far as our species is concerned; the notion of "oh this female is able to get pregnant, but no one touch her til she's 18 because child" is an incredibly new societal invention (and in some places it isn't even a thing) when you take us out of the context of billions of years or survival.

You claim evolution should make us less as we are when in fact it's evolution that MADE US this way in the first place. Evolution and nature do not give a crap our societal and cultural viewpoints and morals. All it cares about is that we fuck, and kill things that get in the way of us fucking, then go and fuck some more to celebrate; and if we don't like it then some other organism that DOES like fucking and killing will come right along and boot us off our throne given enough time.

 

[Ruisu]

It shows evolution to me that we now have virtual outlets for almost any kind of desire or fetish no matter how weird or depraved,that won't get in the way of anyone else's life.

 

[Spushkin]

All it cares about is that we fuck, and kill things that get in the way of us fucking, then go and fuck some more to celebrate; and if we don't like it then some other organism that DOES like fucking and killing will come right along and boot us off our throne given enough time.

I guess killer bunnies will be our undoing after all!

 

[LazyAza]

It's depressing because as a species we should be I don't know, more evolved? yeah human beings are naturally drawn to sex and violence, its in our nature, but you'd think by now it wouldn't quite as easily be such a huge draw and such a deciding factor in so many things. I think entertainment and creativity in general would benefit greatly from moving a little further away from having to overtly pander so often.

But I like being pandered too. That's the point of entertainment.

Like, without fun, what's left? Sitting in a circle and going on about how enlightened and spiritually moved we were? We will always, always like sex and violence. Until there's something better than that (Which I don't believe is possible) we'll always be wired that way.

It's fulfilling a need that we can't get in real life. It's fun you can't have anywhere else.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I like boobs and violence as much as the next guy but I also like variety and that's the big problem with the world right now; theirs not enough of it. I don't want dumb fun taken away, I just want it to be better managed and to come in more forms and to be of higher quality and to not be quite so frequently the only thing that seems to get made.

I like my dumb fun to at least try. Guardians of the Galaxy was a perfect example of how much better dumb fun can be when a thing is just brimming with cleverness and new ideas, that movie was practically marvels first comedy film. Easily one of the best movies in the last 2 decades that I've seen. I want more of that and less of Transformers 4.

Heck even porn comes in degrees of quality ranging across the entire spectrum now. Anyone who's seen Zones best work knows that he puts countless hours of time in to his animations even if they are still just fap material really. So good an animator did he become he ended up working for the Skullgirls guys; a fighting game with some of the best 2d animation ever to exist in a game. If an independent porn animator can get that good then theirs no reason more "family friendly" stuff can't try a little harder.

 

[Caffiene]

"The carrying of something to an absurd extreme."

Does this not imply, by the very nature of the word absurd, that an argument based on it would be irrational? After all, you carry an opposing point to an "absurd extreme." Is Merriam mistaken? The definition, as you pointed out, seems fitting of a straw man.

EDIT: After reading your comment again and vising this site: http://www.iep.utm.edu/reductio/ I am left... more confused. I am struggling to understand the difference between carrying an argument to an extreme not actually stated by the original comment, and a straw man.

The difference is in what is being carried to an extreme. The reductio ad absurdum is a tactic where you carry the opponent's logic to an extreme in order to demonstrates the absurd conclusions the opponent's logic can lead to. (The argument itself isnt absurd - the argument demonstrates that the conclusion of the opponent's logic is absurd)

If you straw man the opponent's position and then carry the straw man to an extreme, its not a true reductio ad absurdum because youre not addressing their logic. There isnt really any problem with the extremity itself, its just that the initial thought under consideration was already absurd.

Or in other words you could say that applying it to the opponent's logic is a valid tactic that demonstrates the opponent's logic is absurd, and applying it to a straw man is a valid tactic that shoots ones self in the foot by demonstrating that the straw man was absurd.

 

[spartan231490]

I mean, I understand your concern, but I think you're overreacting. Anyone would pull back if you got too close, it's called personal space, and it certainly isn't enough to call it a perv game. Though it probably will be.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

If you thought virtual reality wasn't gonna be used for sex you live in a bubble, have never experienced any literature or other mediums about virtual reality, possibly aren't human and definitely are ignorant about the world at large, especially with regards to porn consumption.

 

[Stryphoon]

There was no gratuitous language or camera angles used in the video.

They used a teenager probably due to young adults being the primary audience, due to marketing reason which have been explained again and and again and a again and again.

They used a female character (out of the myriad of possible genders they had to choose from) most likely duevto an assumption that male and female players would be more comfortable that way.

They set it in a room as opposed to a family restaurant or cafe because rendering more people is more work.

People cannot say a perverse game encourages perverse behavior in the real world while simultaneously saying that violent video games don't encourage violent behavior in the real world.

This is a sensationalist article that I honestly expectedto end with "tune back in at 11 for 3 high speed chasers and we will reveal the appliance in every home that WILl kill you and everyone you care about, so don't touch that dial!"

Game journalism has degraded to the level of tabloids spreading nonsense for quick reads and gossip rags about who the industry pseudo celebrities are sleeping with.

 

[Sillarra]

I'm surprised that this never gets mentioned, but did anyone see the framerate drop on the video when they show the virtual room? Around 0:18 -0:20 I think. Not sure if this is due to Youtube or the PS4 struggling to render the scene in 3D.

[small]I guess everyone's busy discussing something else...I'll let myself out now...[/small]

 

[Artaneius]

Why can't japan just get off its perverse fascination with a being a high school student with all its awkward bullshit. I'd swear that judging by their entertainment industry you'd think that life just ends for the Japanese man when he gets his diploma out of high school.
Life gets way more interesting out of highschool but maybe thats just for west. Maybe in japan you go to college and then march off to your 12 hour a day 6 days a week cubical job and stay there till you commit suicide in your depressing tiny tokyo apartment.

In Japan after high school your life is pretty much over as a man. Rest of your life is spent working for someone else, woman in Japan are rarely interested in men unless they have money or authority, and sim girls is the only way you can live out your sexual fantasies. The problem is that Japan's work ethics never changed while everything else was forcefully changed by the American occupation and new constitution. The Japanese men don't see a point anymore in being in relationships when a sim girl is never going to tell you no or make you do things yourself after work. Japanese woman don't see the point in being in relationships because being in a relationship is seen as betrayal to the company you work for. Seriously once a Japanese woman gets pregnant, the company starts to ignore her and her fellow employees do the same. Your never going to get a raise ever after that, and they're going to look for any signs of weakness to fire you. Many Japanese woman have to quit their jobs after giving birth.

Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world and there is a very good reason why. Because Japan fails to change work ethics when it changed everything else. You can't have strict work ethics without a way to escape it. For Japanese men back before WWII, there was many ways to escape the hard work ethics, often at the expense of woman's equality. Now, they use dating sims instead with the new laws.

 

[Artaneius]

The Japanese men don't see a point anymore in being in relationships when a sim girl is never going to tell you no or make you do things yourself after work..

Is that really the message you want to convey? That Japanese men want a woman that "won't say no"? That's a broad, gross brush.

If you ever watched the documentary "We don't have sex, we're Japanese!", that's honestly what it boils down too for men at least. It's on youtube check it out. It tells a great important image why men and woman don't want to be in relationships in Japan. I'm not making this stuff up.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

The Japanese men don't see a point anymore in being in relationships when a sim girl is never going to tell you no or make you do things yourself after work..

Is that really the message you want to convey? That Japanese men want a woman that "won't say no"? That's a broad, gross brush.

Actually, it's very common for Japanese women to say "no" during sex as a turn-on. It's equivalent to saying "oh yes!" or "Oh my god!" while having sex in Englis. I just found it funny that what was being said, while not literally meaning "no" and more akin to refusing to have sex, is the exact opposite of the situation.

That being said, it's not as much Japanese not wanting women who will not refuse them but rather that in Japan the cost of maintaining a relationship is too high for a lot of people. Couple that with a thriving sim date, red district, semi-legal semi-prostitution, maid cafes, host clubs, titty-grope cabares and other forms of VERY popular sexual escapism (they even have "pay to take a walk with a cute girl" services) and sublimation and you end up with a result of "2d" (this means fictional, not actually 2D) characters seem preferable to going through the pains of making enough money to be able to fund a relationship, then going out and braving the world of dating when you don't really enjoy it and rather simply play games and watch anime.


Basically, it's like a substitute that while obviously not as good as the real thing, the side-benefits and convenience that come with giving up on real women offset the loss for an actually sizable number of folks. No risk of being dumped, rejected, being cheated upon, being given an STD, being sued for paternity fees, having to pay the $10.000-$30.000 wedding bill and so on.

 

[ckam]

I'd buy it. Just saying.

 

[J Tyran]

Well although it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable I don't see any harm in it, video game fantasies are not real and most gamers take pleasure from what would be horrific and inhumane actions in real life. I mean I just spent four hours electrocuting and then burning screaming pixel people to death as an Engineer in Mass Effect 3, if someone enjoys peeping at pixel schoolgirls and like most[footnote]I say most but I mean 99.9% of people, there have been occasions where sickos have been "inspired" by a peice of media or entertainment but those are few and far between[/footnote] people its a video game fantasy that stays there thats up to them.

Firstly, the condition that means you are attracted to pubescent but under the legal age is actually super super common. Mainly because its the natural state of human biology to be attracted to that age group.

You might want to take that talk elsewhere. The forum doesn't allow... that.

Just for reference, I am not in anyway condoned having sex with a minor, nor am I arguing it should be legal by any means, as biology or not, their not mature enough to deal with it. I'm just stating the fact that the mind considers any person whos significantly into puberty an adult, and therefore attractive. Its still not a good thing.

If that premise is true and its a matter of biology it might not be a good thing but its not a bad thing or an evil thing its just a thing, we are sentient and self aware enough to understand that while the body and hormones and everything else might be all for it we (should) know better that the right thing to do is never to act on impulses like that.

We all have impulses to do things that are wrong that just come to us, like have you ever wanted to smack your boss? Or fling that annoying phone with the buggy app across the room? People are generally civilised enough to ignore and not act out on these things, if biology really does predispose some people in the way you suggest as long as they never act on it there is no harm done.

 

[hickwarrior]

I think you're blowing it way out of proportion. Japan has a fertility rate the same as Greece and only just short of both Australia and the U.S. Parts of Korea actually have lower rates than Japan.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN

Fertility rates does NOT equal the culture japan is stuck in...


Although it's a youtuber, this guy WAS in japan and is still very interested in its culture. But he knows very well the problems japan is facing at the moment. Just watch the video and see what kind of trap it is to get stuck in.