Pillars of Eternity: your opinion so far?

[Fat Hippo]

I'm having an absolute blast with it, most of its good points have already been mentioned, but I would like to address one criticism that has been made: The fact that buffs can only be cast during combat.

I think this was absolutely the correct decision on their part, because if you've played some older infinity engine games, one thing that tended to be kind of a drag at higher levels was spending several minutes buffing your party before every hard fight. Which were very common. It really bogged down the pace, but you were only gimping yourself if you didn't do it, so they had to balance the game around this aspect.

So now, the game is balanced in such a way that you go into fights unbuffed, and therefore you need to make an interesting tactical decision: Do I buff myself, or debuff the enemies, or go straight for damage? Or do I dynamically do so during the battle, targeting tough enemies or squishy characters when needed? Personally I love this system, since it reduces busywork and adds more depth to spellcasting during the fights.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

You too huh? This is my main gripe with my druid. There is no need for the stingy timer on this ability, especially since it takes away your weapon/shield abilities. I much prefer an unlimited at-will toggle, especially since it evidently takes no effort for the druid. Its annoying to turn back, walk 5ft forward, then re-shift when the next bad guy pops round the corner.. or even worse when you're in the middle of a battle, why is my character turning back only to have to shift back AGAIN after revealing the next enemy? Makes no sense.

I couldn't agree more on the toggle. That makes a choice between melee form with no gear, or gear (which I expect may start overtaking it at some point). I've found now I'm mostly using it for the Wildstrike dmg buff. I rolled a Pale Elf from White Wastes that Wend so he's got the cold thing going. Wildstrike Freeze (+30% to all dmg while shifted as freeze) and Secrets of Rime (+20% all freeze dmg). So while shifted, he gets +36% dmg bonus to all dmg as freeze and +56% dmg for any cold spells (winter blast, blizzard, hail).

But it is annoying now that it spends so much time off. I haven't even bothered with it sometimes. I'm also yet to find any new forms beyond the initial one, tho multiple sources say it's possible. I think I would go boar or bear in hindsight. Wolf's ability is 2x/rest so can be gone within one encounter.

I would like to address one criticism that has been made: The fact that buffs can only be cast during combat.

I think this was absolutely the correct decision on their part, because if you've played some older infinity engine games, one thing that tended to be kind of a drag at higher levels was spending several minutes buffing your party before every hard fight. Which were very common. It really bogged down the pace, but you were only gimping yourself if you didn't do it, so they had to balance the game around this aspect.

I mentioned it but made the same point. I do agree on this. It's only by being prevented from pre-buffing up that I don't and I am grateful for it. It actually makes different encounters interesting as now buffing is not free, but a choice. Spend the time to buff/debuff or do something else. Positioning party members, knockdown here, charm there, blizzard yonder...it's refreshing and enjoyable. I just wish more of Durance's spells were AoE...for the length of most encounters I CBA to use single target things, and don't unless there's a particularly noteworthy enemy.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I just wish more of Durance's spells were AoE...for the length of most encounters I CBA to use single target things, and don't unless there's a particularly noteworthy enemy.

You could argue this was a bit of a design flub. AoE is so extraordinarily effective that it renders single target abilities virtually obsolete.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

One of my larger gripes with the game is the defence mechanics. By removing class specific benefits from stats, like Might and Dex and making them equally applicable, there is only one way to avoid the majority of combat damage, and that's deflection. The other defences are situational and, while nice to have, aren't the make or break in combat. Deflection is numero uno and it's given out by class, by shields, some gear (cloaks, rings, don't stack) and by talents/abilities. It's easy to get a fighter, paladin or chanter up there (currently Eder is up to 97) to make excellent tanks (apparently rangers can too somehow), but there's no such thing as an avoidance type mechanic, like a quick rogue, duelist or brawler.

They advertise the game as being so easy to make different characters, since wizards and priests can wear plate and carry greatswords just as effectively as anyone. But the classes that suffer are the lightly armoured melee fighters, notably my druid, rogues, ciphers and the like. They don't have the deflection to avoid getting hit, the DR of plate or the HP pool to stay up for long.

IMO, fighter/mitigation tanks should have deflection for their shields and armour deflecting blows, high DR to reduce the blows that get through and high HP to keep fighting. Rogues/Monks should have high reflex (well, Monks are quite different in PoE with the wounds mechanic requiring they get hit), being quick and nimble to avoid blows altogether, and light armour that helps a bit but not enough to let them be the centre of attention. And druids/ciphers should be in the middle. Medium armour and some dodge so they avoid half as well as a rogue but with a DR in between them and fighters.

But they intentionally chose this mechanic, with "Grazes" as a substitute for always missing OR hitting...I can understand it and it isn't bad. It just means that the claim that any character concept being feasible isn't strictly true. I've noticed that you're either super-tanky, or super-squishy with little middle ground, especially at the speed encounters happen.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

I just wish more of Durance's spells were AoE...for the length of most encounters I CBA to use single target things, and don't unless there's a particularly noteworthy enemy.

You could argue this was a bit of a design flub. AoE is so extraordinarily effective that it renders single target abilities virtually obsolete.

You're right, I know, but still. *sigh* Well...most of the damaging AoE abilities don't differentiate friend from foe (ie. friendly fire is a feature and cannot be disabled) so they could've just done the same thing with (de)buffing spells.

All of my gripes tho, they're minor grumbles and are far from a serious complaint. I'm thoroughly enjoying the game (up to lvl 7 now and haven't even visited either major city) including the combat. I'd like to tweak some things (and in fact, I already have, using the IE Mod to get rid of Engagement mechanic entirely) that hopefully mods can make optional (unlimited shapeshifting for one) and the rest mechanic is annoying, along with per rest limitations (saying that, I've only once had an issue which was my own doing. I went down the pit in the Endless Paths of Od Nua level 2, jumping straight to 5 with no way back up except to fight my way up thru 5, 4 and 3 again. Took me most of yesterday and a lot of reloading).

I've only encountered one bug so far, albeit an annoying one. I picked up the ranger companion who has the permanent debuff from her animal companion dying. It won't go away. Also, I think I've lost my Pale Elf's racial ability since it used to show but doesn't anymore. But I also picked up the cipher companion and she's tremendous. Definitely going Cipher on a second playthru.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Also, I think I've lost my Pale Elf's racial ability since it used to show but doesn't anymore.

20-1 you lost it to the double-click bug.

I think I like the rest restriction, it's definitely making me think more tactically about how I engage, I can't just smash my face into enemies and sleep it off after.

As for the engage mechanic...not sure why anyone would want to scrap that. It's quite elegant. Combat would be a complete cluster fuck without it.

 

[The Madman]

The best praise I can give Pillars of Eternity is that it feels like a natural evolution of the Baldur's Gate and Infinity Engine formula, which is exactly what the devs promised in their kickstarter campaign and exactly what I was hoping PoE would become. Needless to say I'm loving the game so far.

The visuals are gorgeous, the music is pleasant, the characters are interesting, what I've played so far of the plot has been intriguing, and I even enjoy the tactical combat.

There are some elements of the game that are taking some getting used to. No buffing spells out of combat strikes me as a strange decision for example, but I imagine it was done as a balancing decision so that fights wouldn't be rendered too easy if you already know they're coming and take a moment to buff the entire group before engaging. Similarly the quirks of some of the classes definitely take some time to get used to as do the intricacies of the new stats system and how it works.

But for the most part my complaints in those regards are more of me just not being fully used to how the game works yet. Overall I've been having an absolute blast and in all truthfulness I've very few complaints to make. It's exactly what I was hoping it would be.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

been having alot of fun with the game, it really feels like alot of love went into the story and world building, and I'm definitely enjoying it.


although I hadn't heard about this double click bug until last night, and I may have had it happen :-/

either:

A) I suck at the game and I'm getting careless, because a few of my guys seemed to be getting wiped before I even have a chance to notice their health drop and so I end up quickloading back a bit and prepare better for the fight

B) this bug happened recently and I'm now getting punished for it.

(it could be both actually..I'm definitely not that great at these types of games even though I love them.)

 

[Dirkie]

I'm off on a slow start with Pillars.
Bought the game, created a character, went in for about 15 minutes and got to the trap floor in the cave.
After that, i realized i might be doing things a bit rushed now, so i'm first going to read the manual and the extra bits like the almanack to get a better feeling for the game and the surrounding things.

Almost like Baldur's Gate II i started years ago, first try was a complete mess, after that i read the manual and went in with a little more understanding of the underlying mechanics and it was a lot more fun that way.

So, i'm hoping Pillars will work out the same way.

 

[The Madman]

A) I suck at the game and I'm getting careless, because a few of my guys seemed to be getting wiped before I even have a chance to notice their health drop and so I end up quickloading back a bit and prepare better for the fight

B) this bug happened recently and I'm now getting punished for it.

(it could be both actually..I'm definitely not that great at these types of games even though I love them.)

Even on Normal difficulty PoE doesn't pull any punches when it comes to combat, as a veteran of these sorts of games I've still had a couple challenging fights and moments where I've had to pull a quickload so it's not just you.

Personally I've actually really glad about that. The original Infinity Engine games were known for their occasional spikes in difficulty and I'm glad that the spirit of challenging combat has been preserved here. I also really like that the game isn't so sanitized as to be perfectly balanced. There are some pretty good combo out there and some abilities that are just really damned good without also making the previous abilities irrelevant, and I'm glad that's the case.

I know some people will inevitably become obsessed with the concept of creating a perfect class combo (Kensai/Mage anyone?) which will similarly lead to a small but inevitable outcry of 'imbalance, everything should be even' but I've always liked that sorta stuff and never been nonplussed about playing an 'imperfect' build so long as it's still viable and fun, which PoE has proven so far that they are.

 

[DEAD34345]

My only complaint with the game is that the backstab ability for rogues is totally and utterly worthless. It can only be done while sneaking (so only once per fight unless you waste invisibility powers or something), it only does X2 damage, and you have to be in almost melee range to do it (which means your rogue immediately dies if you try it). Confusingly, "Sneak Attack" is where you stab an enemy in the back, and you don't have to be sneaking. Who thought this shit up?

Other than that though, the game's incredible. No other complaints whatsoever. I've heard about one or two terrible bugs, but amazingly (considering this is an Obsidian game and published by Paradox) I've not encountered a single one so far.

 

[Scars Unseen]

As for the engage mechanic...not sure why anyone would want to scrap that. It's quite elegant. Combat would be a complete cluster fuck without it.

Talk to the people at RPGCodex. They made a mod that does exactly that. Lord knows why. They're a weird lot. Used to be(and may still be the case, for all I know) that they didn't consider Baldur's Gate to be an RPG because it had real time combat.

 

[Fat Hippo]

You're right, I know, but still. *sigh* Well...most of the damaging AoE abilities don't differentiate friend from foe (ie. friendly fire is a feature and cannot be disabled) so they could've just done the same thing with (de)buffing spells.

I haven't had much difficulty with the AoE, but maybe that's just because my mages have such massive INT scores that they have a large yellow area so that it's quite easy to place fireballs without hitting my fighters.



[quote/] I went down the pit in the Endless Paths of Od Nua level 2, jumping straight to 5 with no way back up except to fight my way up thru 5, 4 and 3 again. Took me most of yesterday and a lot of reloading).[/quote]

Ahahah, the exact same thing happened to me. But you know what? Not far from the set of stairs you took, which bring you to level 4, there's another set, the master stairs, which let you return straight to level 1. That entire slog was for nothing! But to be honest, I thought it was rather good fun actually. Difficult, but fun.

 

[SneakyBastard]

I'm about to check out this game. I'm hoping that it can keep me busy untill the witcher 3 comes out!

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Very fun so far. Playing a pale elf barbarian mercenary. First tried a cipher but I was trying to run around with just Durance and Aloth. Needless to say trying to be the frontline fighter was a really stupid idea. So, not realizing how to recruit Eder at first I decided to be the big beefy one. And so far I'm enjoying that.

Hardest thing in the game for me is enemies inflicting awful status conditions on me. Looking at you 11th floor of Od Nua and that mass of mind control enemies. Or floor 14 with those damn paralyzing banshees. Still, not insurmountable just annoying.

The combat can be a pain sometimes. Like not just enemies that are tough, but stupid AI that won't run around the right way to attack the enemy I want it to. Also wizard charging in to cast a spell and die. Though maybe I just need to throw defense spells up first before casting certain spells that have an unfortunately short range

Still, enjoying the game so far. They delivered exactly what they promised and I'm very happy with it.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

A) I suck at the game and I'm getting careless, because a few of my guys seemed to be getting wiped before I even have a chance to notice their health drop and so I end up quickloading back a bit and prepare better for the fight

B) this bug happened recently and I'm now getting punished for it.

(it could be both actually..I'm definitely not that great at these types of games even though I love them.)

Even on Normal difficulty PoE doesn't pull any punches when it comes to combat, as a veteran of these sorts of games I've still had a couple challenging fights and moments where I've had to pull a quickload so it's not just you.

Personally I've actually really glad about that. The original Infinity Engine games were known for their occasional spikes in difficulty and I'm glad that the spirit of challenging combat has been preserved here. I also really like that the game isn't so sanitized as to be perfectly balanced. There are some pretty good combo out there and some abilities that are just really damned good without also making the previous abilities irrelevant, and I'm glad that's the case.

I know some people will inevitably become obsessed with the concept of creating a perfect class combo (Kensai/Mage anyone?) which will similarly lead to a small but inevitable outcry of 'imbalance, everything should be even' but I've always liked that sorta stuff and never been nonplussed about playing an 'imperfect' build so long as it's still viable and fun, which PoE has proven so far that they are.

yeah, I'm on normal and I knew going in the game wasn't going to be a walk in the park. It's just there are some ODD moments where my guy (heck it'll be a fighter or paladin, not one of the squishy mage/priests) will drop dead before any of my guys land a single hit, and it just bewilders me what the hell just happened sometimes.

yeah that's generally how I am too, I play what is fun regardless of if it is OP or slighlty underpowered (won't play something that is useless, you're gonna be there for an hour every single time you have to fight something.), not what is "most OP/easy mode combo" just for the sake of being able to beat it on expert/elite/proud mode.



OT: Does anyone have any preferences on party members thus far?

strongest to weakest? just someone you enjoy in general for company? etc...

I didn't get him at the beginning since I didn't continue the conversation through enough to get him to join me, but Eder seems to be the saving grace of my party, soaking up baddies and damage like a fucking brick wall.

 

[The Madman]

yeah, I'm on normal and I knew going in the game wasn't going to be a walk in the park. It's just there are some ODD moments where my guy (heck it'll be a fighter or paladin, not one of the squishy mage/priests) will drop dead before any of my guys land a single hit, and it just bewilders me what the hell just happened sometimes.

I didn't get him at the beginning since I didn't continue the conversation through enough to get him to join me, but Eder seems to be the saving grace of my party, soaking up baddies and damage like a fucking brick wall.

I've had that happen a couple times too and in looking over the combat logs it's almost always in fights against spellcasters. Enemy wizards seem to have a thing for throwing out the big boom right off the bat, which can be especially dangerous when there are multiple wizards and they're all targeting one person. Sometimes it can just be an unlucky early crit as well.

Now that I know that I haven't had nearly as much trouble, especially since unlike in Baldur's Gate the wizards can't contingency themselves a full loadup of defensive spells on the start of combat to make fighting them more tricky... which is kinda a shame really because the big wizard duels in Baldur's Gate 2 and similar D&D games can get pretty damned epic. Trying to tear away the opponents magical defenses as they call down meteors and make the earth rumble was both challenging and damned cool. I've yet to have encountered any foes on that sort of scale in PoE, but then I'm also still fairly early in the game so who knows?

And yeah, Eder is pretty awesome. Personality-wise he seems to be the sort of grounded everyman Carth/Kaidan type which is cool enough, but gameplay wise if you deck him out with the right gear he's just a damned wall and seriously durable, which is really useful if you're not playing a tanky sort yourself.

 

[BLAHwhatever]

Loved the first 2 acts. Went downhill from there.
All in all decent game. too many things not fleshed out enough
8/10

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Also, I think I've lost my Pale Elf's racial ability since it used to show but doesn't anymore.

20-1 you lost it to the double-click bug.

Just saw that on the front page, I think you're right since it's something I'm likely to have done. Ah well...no 10 to freeze/fire DR :\ Not game breaking, but still annoying.

I think I like the rest restriction, it's definitely making me think more tactically about how I engage, I can't just smash my face into enemies and sleep it off after.

It does for sure. Like there's a limited amount of power available between each rest and having to manage spells until the next opportunity presents. I've only had one real issue where I needed to rest had no supplies, but I worked past it...and that's on hard with max 2 camping supplies. So it's not bad. Maybe on a second playthru I'll find a mod for it, but it is making this playthru interesting enough.

As for the engage mechanic...not sure why anyone would want to scrap that. It's quite elegant. Combat would be a complete cluster fuck without it.

I didn't like it. At least in D&D you had to be the right class, or pick a Feat to get attacks of opportunity. And even then they weren't uber. With engagement, if anyone gets close to a squishy character, they stand still and die, or they move and die. The +15 accuracy and dmg bonus are brutal (but with so few talents/abilities no way is it worth spending talents on that). Without engagement, they can still die, but it's because I made a mistake, I positioned them wrong, the enemy got around me, something. But if I'm lucky, I can move away with only one hit and without the bonuses against me.

Combat as it is, is about positioning. Where to send melee chars, where to place AoEs with potential friendly fire, cones attacks and abilities with range restrictions. I understand trying to have a mechanic for movement during combat, but engagement isn't a good one. It also screws up archers/gunners who have a long enough reload as it is...move them mid animation and it starts again. Rarrgh. Having one guy approach Aloth with Engagement as it is vanilla meant he was dead if I moved him, dead if I left him or if I tried to move a fighter across, the fighter got hit hard. No TY.

Ahahah, the exact same thing happened to me. But you know what? Not far from the set of stairs you took, which bring you to level 4, there's another set, the master stairs, which let you return straight to level 1. That entire slog was for nothing! But to be honest, I thought it was rather good fun actually. Difficult, but fun.

Yeah, I learned that much later :-( Still, also quite chuffed at beating that encounter at the bottom of the pit. I think at the end of it I had like 2 people still conscious, no spells, scrolls or consumables. Took me a few goes....then I realised I had to get back up somehow from level 5 o.o

Out of interest, have you gotten any further? I'm level 7 now...could I manage Endless Paths level 7-10 yet? I'm scared o.o Also, any idea:

Spoiler

What level Kana's tablet is on? He said "We're getting close" on 6 but it wasn't there.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

yeah, I'm on normal and I knew going in the game wasn't going to be a walk in the park. It's just there are some ODD moments where my guy (heck it'll be a fighter or paladin, not one of the squishy mage/priests) will drop dead before any of my guys land a single hit, and it just bewilders me what the hell just happened sometimes.

I didn't get him at the beginning since I didn't continue the conversation through enough to get him to join me, but Eder seems to be the saving grace of my party, soaking up baddies and damage like a fucking brick wall.

I've had that happen a couple times too and in looking over the combat logs it's almost always in fights against spellcasters. Enemy wizards seem to have a thing for throwing out the big boom right off the bat, which can be especially dangerous when there are multiple wizards and they're all targeting one person. Sometimes it can just be an unlucky early crit as well.

this bit is especially relevant to me right now, if anyone has any ideas on this part, I'd like the advice:

Spoiler: I'm in defiance bay right now

and I talked to the knight about letting me into heritage hill, and you go into that one crypt on the right side of the map where the specter is with the knights you were looking for..and sweet jesus does that stupid specter (Forgot her name at the moment) just destroy me, she has that stupid stunlock spell and when she teleport+swats at my squishy guys, I just get fucking hammered. it seems like my paladin and Eder can handle the brunt of all the physical attacks, and slowly but surely they are chopping down at all the knights..but that damn specter is owning the fuck out of me from the background, and I just can't find the right spell combination to take her down WHILE fending off the knights. There is no way to "funnel" the baddies into a hallway or door entrance, and it's a small crypt as it is...

so any ideas?

I've got a priest, a ranger, a paladin, a scholar, a wizard, and a fighter..(pretty standard at the end of act 1 for most people I'm assuming).