Piracy Numbers

the_tramp

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May 16, 2008
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I don't know what peoples' issue is with your fascination with piracy, I've always read your articles with interest (Long time reader, first time writer). Everyone can make sweeping statements saying that piracy affects sales et al but you actually look deeper than that and assess whether it is actually true.

The ~90% statistic for piracy would make any game publisher blush but then again you go further and actually pick apart this statistic. The amount of times that I've google'ed "[game] demo" to be met with a million forum posts asking if there is one, I've always thought that this was always a major contributor to piracy.
 

Undead_David

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Nov 27, 2009
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OK heres my question people, how is pirating different from borrowing a game from a friend? You never payed for it, you played it for free, and nobody makes any money.

Or what about buying a used game from ebay or a garage sale (not gamestop) or something, even though you payed for it, the developers dont see a penny.

People need to stop getting there panties in a know about this whole thing.

And in response a to a jerk from earlier, Flash787, you took my statement out of context and than insulted me. I suggest you read my statement in full before making spewing that diahretic shit out of the asshole you call your mouth :)
 

Byers

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Nov 21, 2008
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I both buy and pirate, depending on game quality and developer. I won't buy anything untested, and since everyone saw it fit to stop releasing demos, piracy is the way to do it.
You wouldn't buy a car without taking it for a test drive first. And if the car turned out to be a piece of crap, you certainly wouldn't buy it.

I mostly ignore Americans who are judgmental about piracy. You'll never experience having to pay $80-$100 for new PC game titles.

Our government is a big fan of heavy VAT, and our local outlets beef up the prices because they can.

Online outlets like Steam use localized prices that in my region are nearly twice that of the US version of Steam, and force everyone in Europe to use the pointless and expensive Euro currency, even the countries that aren't a part of the European Union.

The government impose taxes on every international purchase over 35 dollars, roughly doubling and tripling the cost of these purchases, unless we get the online retailers to mark the packages as gifts or books, which only privately run outlets or ebay sellers will agree to.

Most major American and British outlets won't ship games to me, because it messes with regional pricing and because of the tax issues.

And now lately I'm being punished by the developers by means of DLC for buying used games. (How dare I try to save some money and obtain games at reasonable prices? How immoral it is for me to get use out of something that someone else has lost interest in, and now only takes up space. Clearly the moral thing to do is to keep production going and fill the world up with more and more plastic crap that sits unused on shelves.)

So really. Before you start condemning piracy in all its variety and reaching wonderful conclusions that we're all soulless fiends from the pits of hell, maybe look at the underlying reasons. If you invariably were left with the feeling of being bent over the counter and sodomized by the industry and/or state every time you purchased a video game, you might dabble in it too.
 

jdhays

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Oct 28, 2009
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I wonder how much pressure investors put on game publishers for DRM. If you told a prospective investor that you were going to spend millions of dollars on a game that anyone could easily steal, wouldn't they invest their money elsewhere? The average person is not going to view piracy as the gaming community does. They are going to treat it like goods stolen off the back of a truck.

I haven't seen this point addressed anywhere. If it has, can you point me in the direction? Thanks.
 

shadow skill

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Akalabeth said:
benoitowns said:
I only pirate when I want to play a game I never plan on buying, or the game disk I have doesnt work or whatever. I dont think about wanting to hurt the developer, download a torrent and seed as much as possible out of spite. That would be stupid and illogical. What is logical about pirating is getting something you dont want to spend money on. No (major) downsides. So once again, straw man.
Spare me this straw man shit, seriously. I don't know where that comes from but it's not an argument. If you see flaws in my argument point them out, don't go "straw man straw man". That shit wouldn't work in court and it doesn't work on the pointless trolling of internet forums either.

Basically what you're saying is "I only pirate games that are good enough for me to play but not good enough for me to buy". Wow that's a nice justification or methodology. I've heard a lot of people spew that before "I don't hurt the publisher because I wouldn't have bought that game anyway" well who cares? Pirating is pirating. Simple as that.

Honestly the only reason anyone who pirates is even talking in this thread is because they're trying to justify their own activities or in their eyes mitigate what they're doing. To me it's black and white. Which is fine, because really all anyone here is doing is trying to convince THEMSELVES that it's okay, if we happen to agree with you then that's just reinforcement. But the only people who are going to agree with you are like-minded individuals so really, you're just convincing yourselves on a larger scale.

Anyway, have fun with that.

The argument doesn't work for me.
Why are you even saying anything on the subject? Your own "logic" says that you are doing the same thing.
 

veloper

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Jan 20, 2009
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Undead_David said:
OK heres my question people, how is pirating different from borrowing a game from a friend? You never payed for it, you played it for free, and nobody makes any money.

Or what about buying a used game from ebay or a garage sale (not gamestop) or something, even though you payed for it, the developers dont see a penny.
This question actually deserves an answer. Since nobody else is willing to bother, I will.

Because I don't think I need to explain how the money going into making the games we play, comes out of the pockets of gamers who buy them, we can cut right to it:

as a pair, the friend and the person who borrows from him, contribute for 50%.
(That is ofcourse, IF the friend gets to borrow in return too, else it's 100% for the friend and 0 for the other.)
I don't have a problem with that. Bigger shoulders, heavier burden and all that; atleast your examples still contribute significantly to the games they enjoy.


Since the issue isn't binary, you have to draw the line somewhere: as with anything in life, if a person only borrows and gives nothing in return, that person soon outlasts his welcome.

Borrow a game between alot of friends then you should either start buying it, or possibly stop wasting eachother's time with a game you don't like.

The good part for the pirates is, since the gaming community isn't a real community, you cannot get beaten or expelled for taking your free meals, but rather you may just come across some pointless, angry posts as you browse.
 

Xrysthos

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Apr 13, 2009
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Piracy is bad for the gaming industry. You don't have to be a genius to figure this out. There are naturally ways to decrease piracy, such as DRM and online components, but these also have a negative effect on the gamers who have purchased the game legitimately. The obvious observation is that piracy will continiue to exist untill drastic changes are made on behalf of the industry, and that enforcing anti-pirate measures will have a negative effect on overall sales.

I think that what the gaming, movie and music industry has to do to reduce the pirate problem is to make major changes in the way they sell their products. Piracy is effective as a means of creating PR for a game, movie or album (just take a look at "X-Men Origins: Wolverine", where an incomplete workprint of the movie was "pirated and released" onto the P2P network, with special effects and several scenes missing, and the effect it had on publicity and therefore sales), but what is most interesting is the torrent-technology. Several game developers, such as Blizzard and EA Mythic, use torrent technology to distribute games online. If all games, movies and music was available online, ready to be downloaded using torrent technology - the very same used by the pirates - how much could one cut from costs related to the "middle man", i.e. distribution, printing, retail's "cut", transport and so on. How much cheaper could said games, movies and music be for the consumer, with no loss to the people who actually created it? Using torrent technology for distribution would require powerful servers and so on, but if said service had the same mechanics as a private torrent tracker, most of the bandwidth related to sharing would come from the consumer - the way the pirates do it. With the rise of high speed internet/broadband, the increase in people using computers to play movies, watch TV, listen to music and naturally, play games, how can this model of distribution not be beneficial to the entertainment industry? I'm certain a lot of pirates have a conscience, and would gladly pay-per-download, or pay a monthly fee to be a part of such a site, especially if availability is good. As with private torrent trackers, people would be required to maintain a certain ratio (download/upload). Such a service could be hosted by the developers, the music/movie agencies or by a third party, and provide the consumers to an easily accessible database of anything they would want in terms of entertainment, to a fraction of the price currently paid.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
In short:

Uhm... I just kinda wrote this in a hurry, so I apologize for any incoherent parts and so on. Anyways, my point is that the entertainment industry shouldn't back away from torrent technology and "the way of the pirates", but adapt and find a way to use the pirate mentality to their advantage and monetary gain. Cutting out the middle man won't be popular among the middle men, but there are still people who prefer a hard copy of their preferred entertainment, whatever that might be. And then again there are the group of people who'd rather have a digital copy, downloaded at high speeds and ready to go, with minimum hassle, for as little money as humanly possible, i.e. the pirates. What the industry needs to do is to find a way to fulfill the needs of the latter, which in my mind is pretty straightforward.

Edit: Survival is reserved for those who are willing to adapt to a new environment. When the seal first encountered the shark, it didn't attempt to sue it for being a faster and vastly superior predator, but it had to adapt a suitable survival strategy. (And yes, I know sharks have been around longer than seals, but in lack of a better metaphor...)
 

benoitowns

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Oct 18, 2009
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Akalabeth said:
benoitowns said:
I only pirate when I want to play a game I never plan on buying, or the game disk I have doesnt work or whatever. I dont think about wanting to hurt the developer, download a torrent and seed as much as possible out of spite. That would be stupid and illogical. What is logical about pirating is getting something you dont want to spend money on. No (major) downsides. So once again, straw man.
Spare me this straw man shit, seriously. I don't know where that comes from but it's not an argument. If you see flaws in my argument point them out, don't go "straw man straw man". That shit wouldn't work in court and it doesn't work on the pointless trolling of internet forums either.

Basically what you're saying is "I only pirate games that are good enough for me to play but not good enough for me to buy". Wow that's a nice justification or methodology. I've heard a lot of people spew that before "I don't hurt the publisher because I wouldn't have bought that game anyway" well who cares? Pirating is pirating. Simple as that.

Honestly the only reason anyone who pirates is even talking in this thread is because they're trying to justify their own activities or in their eyes mitigate what they're doing. To me it's black and white. Which is fine, because really all anyone here is doing is trying to convince THEMSELVES that it's okay, if we happen to agree with you then that's just reinforcement. But the only people who are going to agree with you are like-minded individuals so really, you're just convincing yourselves on a larger scale.

Anyway, have fun with that.

The argument doesn't work for me.
Well fuck it, but will you understand that I said several times that I AM NOT JUSTIFYING. There is nothing to justify, I dont give two shits about the developer unless there is a reason for me to. Since in the cases I pirate I dont care about the money they arent gaining, I will pirate. If I did care about the developer, I would not pirate their game and I would buy it instead. Not rent, borrow, pirate, or anything else. At least you do understand unlike others that there is nothing more to pirating than pirating. It is not for the sake of pirating, it is for the sake of not paying for something you kinda want.
 

shadow skill

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Hopeless Bastard said:
Enai Siaion said:
Hopeless Bastard said:
Demigod: DOTA players were angry/curious someone was trying to sell a dumbed down version of a free warcraft 3 map. The rest likely wouldn't have known it existed if not for sites like rlslog.net
Seems to work fine for League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth. It's just that Demigod sucked.




Suggestion: make games actually worth playing online, and tie your account to a cd key. How many people pirate League of Legends? None. How many people pirate WoW? A very small amount. Stop cranking out single player games and wondering why they get pirated - not only is it super easy but the game doesn't offer enough to pay for it anyway.
Well, CD-keys can be generated. Then when publishers propose adding any more digits, to make keygens slightly harder to produce, everyone shits themselves. Not everyone wants online play, either.

Of course, the whole "playing pirated games online" thing is a recent and utterly mind boggling development. Used to be if you pirated, you didn't play online. Period. Companies were quick enough and had the foresight to ban any generated/pirate cd-keys as soon as the servers went online. You could use a keygen, but you had about a one in 400 shot of hitting a working key. A key you would most likely not be the only person to find, resulting in the key getting banned.

The fact this isn't the case anymore... reeks. Something that was completely ubiquitous is suddenly gone? Like it was never there to begin with? It seems less like actual oversight and more like a series of publicity stunts. "OH NOES! MILLIONS OF NASTY PIRATES ARE ALL OVER OUR OFFICIAL GAME SERVERS! WHAT EVER ARE WE TO DO?? DRMS ARE CLEARLY THE ONLY SOLUTIONS!!"
You sir have made me chuckle. If they have a way of telling who the pirates are why aren't they calling the cops?
 

Cryo84R

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Jun 27, 2009
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Razhem said:
Cryo84R said:
Pirates are assholes. If you have a problem being called an asshole then maybe you should't steal shit!
And this is the other part of the discussion that amuses me to no end, the angry guy that almost seems like he is more pissed because he isn't playing things for free than because I'm using without authorization the IP of a group of developers. It's like the whole Tiger Woods fiasco where the people seem more pissed that they can't be like Tiger than his actions being morally debatable.
Yes, I'm totally upset that I can't steal shit. Actually I can, but I choose not to because I'm not a damn dirty thief.
 

SnipErlite

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Aug 16, 2009
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Lord Krunk said:
SnipErlite said:
Lord Krunk said:
SnipErlite said:
Pirates are thieves. Simple as.

I only pirate games I cannot physically get, like Sim City 2000 or Aladdin (ie. old classics)

So I'm a mini-thief, I admit.
Same here, although if I see said item in a shop then I won't hesitate to buy it.

I wish I could find an ISO for FF7 though. I want to know what makes it better than 8 or Legend of Dragoon.
Oh of course.....but something like Aladdin isn't ever possible (mainly because the Windows version it ran on....might have been 3.1 or even DOS isn't even made anymore).

Are we acceptable pirates then?
I don't think piracy in any form is acceptable, but I would call it 'harmless'.
Fair play
 

Doug

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Apr 23, 2008
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Wicky_42 said:
Just about what I thought. Pirates pirate, no matter the protection. Simple enough.

More DRM = fewer sales? Likely.

More DRM costs more to implement? Likely.

Bother with DRM? I wouldn't - offer continued support with additional content (over TIME, not at release) to encourage people to buy.
DRM seems to be just to stop people from sharing 1 copy of a game between them.
 

w00tage

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Feb 8, 2010
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geldonyetich said:
The really sad thing about this is that PC Gamers by and large don't realize how badly piracy has gutted the platform.

They post up their "happily dying since X" poster, blind to the massive loss of shelf space at the local game shops compared to the times of over 90% of the games in that picture were released.

They remain thoroughly ignorant that the main reason why PC gamers are so boring these days being that most talented developers have gone elsewhere - to where the money actually is. I'm an aspiring game developer myself, and I can confirm firsthand that I have severe doubts that this platform is worth developing for.

Shamus Young is merely posting up what we've been told repeatedly: piracy is the reason why the PC platform has gone to hell. In response, most PC gamers just put their hands over their ears and yell, "LALALA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF ME GETTING FREE STUFF!"

Maybe the industry should plan a reverse boycott. 100% of big-name business moves to the consoles and refuses to do PC ports for 6 months simply to make a point. The PC platform will always indies, sure, but the indies can endure piracy even less.
I'd say the rise of the console gaming market is why the PC market has changed. BITD, PCs were the only platform that could play the really cool video games. Now consoles are cheaper and a ton more reliable than PCs for gaming, so most kids go that route instead of the PC route. If the greedy game companies would let me have a mouse and keyboard instead of trying to extort controller money from me, I'd be a console gamer too.
 

w00tage

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Feb 8, 2010
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dochmbi said:
Next I think we need an article on political philosophy and the basics of ownership and how it relates to intellectual property.
Ok but then we need an article on the corruption of the IP system by greedy corporations and how that has held back the progress of the entire country.
 

w00tage

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Feb 8, 2010
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jdhays said:
I wonder how much pressure investors put on game publishers for DRM. If you told a prospective investor that you were going to spend millions of dollars on a game that anyone could easily steal, wouldn't they invest their money elsewhere? The average person is not going to view piracy as the gaming community does. They are going to treat it like goods stolen off the back of a truck.

I haven't seen this point addressed anywhere. If it has, can you point me in the direction? Thanks.
Oh this is huge. Investors compare offers to see who has the most attractive one for them and go with the best one. So putting on a good show as to how you'll protect the investor's money is an integral part of the courtship process, and anti-theft measures are strong supporting roles in that show.

Great catch!
 

hansari

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May 31, 2009
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Irridium said:
Movies and music get pirated all the damn time, arguably more than games. And yet they don't impliment mandatory online activation or whathaveyou.
The profit margins and benefits in these fields is soooo much better though.

Go wiki some various music/movie industries...you'll see their profits are in the billions. Meanwhile artists, actors, and directors live like royalty.

Now go look at Bioware which is doing very well...their in the millions. Meanwhile, the only royalty are far fewer and typically on the publishers end...