Piracy Numbers

[Ninjamedic]

Well, you get on the steam train and let Newell open the flood gates to all DRM you get as much as you deserve. (this rant is aimed at all the people who flamed DRM and worship steam who deserve as much as they get.) Now, if they put the game data on disk and left say 5-10% for download then it would work but 20gb? no garrys mod is worth a 100 hour download.

 

[Wicky_42]

not all thieves are jerks. try and tell me robin hood is a jerk? cmon? you cant.

He lived in Nottingham, that made him a jerk before he stole a single thing.

Ooh, zing lol - careful which largest city in the east midlands you insult, it's not called 'Shottingham' for no reason

 

[Xvito]

How many pirates are jerks?

100%

How wonderful! I didn't know The Escapist had started featuring trolls on their website.

I usually agree with most of your sentiments, but that was highly unnecessary.

It can be said as often as we like.

You pirates are getting a free ride, while we fund the developers out of our own money to make those games you play.

"You"? I never said I was a pirate...?

Although, I do support piracy. The only reason that I don't download things is because my Internet-connection is slow.

Then you shouldn't complain for getting lumped in with the pirates.

Yes, because wanting to do something is clearly the same as doing it... Wait, no, that's n-

I want to go into space. Am I there? No. You just failed.

Sympathizers get painted with the same brush. You might aswell get used that now.
Being too sad to even pirate a game doesn't matter. On a forum all you have is your opinion.

Too bad for you then, ey?

 

[Antari]

So I'm a jerk for pirating a 50 dollar game, only to find that IF its even finished and working, at best might be worth 10 dollars? Thanks, but I'll stick with my origional thought, Developers and anyone who support's the arguement that they are the victims is a jerk!

If it hurt them as badly as they say, they wouldn't still be making games, they'd be out of business, not standing around complaining about it. Funny, I don't see them dropping like flies, do you?

90% of what, the imaginary number that would happen if everyone on the planet bought the game? How do they know what the total eventual sales would be, or even the total market share they would end up with? Which is what they would need to know inorder to get any sort of % out of it. Atleast the numbers I use here are ones I can confirm to be relatively accurate, or sane.

 

[bjj hero]

Ooh, zing lol - careful which largest city in the east midlands you insult, it's not called 'Shottingham' for no reason

Im waiting for my visit from a "Notts solja" as we speak...

If it hurt them as badly as they say, they wouldn't still be making games, they'd be out of business. Funny, I don't see them dropping like flies, do you?

You don't follow the news do you? They are dropping like flies, Midway being a high profile example.

 

[veloper]

So I'm a jerk for pirating a 50 dollar game, only to find that IF its even finished and working, at best might be worth 10 dollars?

If it isn't worth your money, then it isn't worth your time.
Stop playing games you dislike.

 

[Antari]

If it hurt them as badly as they say, they wouldn't still be making games, they'd be out of business. Funny, I don't see them dropping like flies, do you?

You don't follow the news do you? They are dropping like flies, Midway being a high profile example.[/quote]

And like many companies before them, give the employees a month or so to either change the name or come up with an entirely different company. Somehow they always have money for that.

Response to Veloper,

And I don't play games that aren't worth my time or money. I still play alot of DOS games, from back when game companies knew how to make something origional. Back when games worked right out of the box, no need for patching. Back when games were good enough the first time not to need DLC to keep the interest of the player.

These days any new games that I do buy, I buy on Steam. Which doesn't account for very many, so if Steam fails, its not a major worry. Either way, don't be fooled by fancy numbers in a magazine, take a look at what happens over time. I've been on this sideline for a while now, and NOTHING has changed. Its just a new younger croud all yelling the same stuff.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I always figure 30% of the world infringes on copy right in one way or another, some want to make money off it and that is clearly illegal the rest are trying to get by or be an ass.

The trouble will always be how we mitigate bad behavior, in media I see the consumer being treated as guilty even after they buy something. In gaming I see a clear movement to push away from open environments like the PC to closed ones like the consoles tho I find it quite funny the 360 easier to hack than a PC game. Its all relative I suppose they perceive the PC as bad so push titles and crap on the consoles.

Outside of that the war on infringement is ramping up with ACTA and crap..... its quite scary how poorly corporate is handling things instead of seeing the issue as the public can not infringe upon CP/IP unless there is a direct money/profit motive to be had by the individual in question they see most things the public dose with CP/IP as infringement and scuttle to big brother for protection like a elephant running to the poacher to be protected from a mouse..... or is that the poacher running to the elephant to be protected from a mouse...mmmm...

If it hurt them as badly as they say, they wouldn't still be making games, they'd be out of business. Funny, I don't see them dropping like flies, do you?

You don't follow the news do you? They are dropping like flies, Midway being a high profile example.

And like many companies before them, give the employees a month or so to either change the name or come up with an entirely different company. Somehow they always have money for that.

Response to Veloper,

And I don't play games that aren't worth my time or money. I still play alot of DOS games, from back when game companies knew how to make something origional. Back when games worked right out of the box, no need for patching. Back when games were good enough the first time not to need DLC to keep the interest of the player.

These days any new games that I do buy, I buy on Steam. Which doesn't account for very many, so if Steam fails, its not a major worry. Either way, don't be fooled by fancy numbers in a magazine, take a look at what happens over time. I've been on this sideline for a while now, and NOTHING has changed. Its just a new younger croud all yelling the same stuff.[/quote]

Midway died due to bad money practices and all the studios that have been dropping lately are have died mostly due to be gobbled up by a bigger firm than not being able to turn a profit.
The trouble with most media business's the cost of business is staggering unless from the top down its ran under budget and on time if its not the only way it can stay ahead is to join with a bigger firm who will randomly gut and flay devs based on lack of "projected" profits, not real loss but lack of preconceived performance .

You remove file sharers with the illicit business today and you will see the same amount of dev closings simply because the numbers of profit you have gained from it will never be enough to fill the void in "projected" profits.

 

[Wicky_42]

Well, you get on the steam train and let Newell open the flood gates to all DRM you get as much as you deserve. (this rant is aimed at all the people who flamed DRM and worship steam who deserve as much as they get.) Now, if they put the game data on disk and left say 5-10% for download then it would work but 20gb? no garrys mod is worth a 100 hour download.

Wait - you insult people using Steam for its inbuilt DRM, then imply that your complaint with it is the time it takes you to download stuff?! Fail.

As to those saying that we'll lose everything if steam goes bust, they've said that in that eventuality they'll remove steam authentication from all their titles - no DRM, no problem!

 

[hyperdrachen]

Yeah games coming with a one time use code that gives access to later DLC is a good bet, and has a nice second side, helps discourage the used game sales. It's true that not every pirated copy is a lost sale, but the fact that the pirated software exists devastates sales. We can't know who would have bought it were there no pirated copy but think of it in this light.

Assuming these numbers are accurate, then of all the people that wanted to play these games, only 10% bought it. But the pirates that actually make these copies are not going to be stopped by any ammount of DRM. It's all software, it can all be circumvented, and after one team cracks the DRM, every 1337 guy who's too broke or too "smart" to pay for the game, can simply click download. Maybe that 10% was all you were ever gonna sell it to, but I'm not really inclined to believe that. Especially since we're talking PC's and the too poor for the game assumption raises questions as to how they fund that new 600 dollar rig every 2 years, with 2 geForce WTF1000s and 4 120mm led fans, plus that terrabyte of hard drive space to store all thier pirated games/porn. My friends and I used to cobble together computers with donated/salvaged parts, and barely get em overclocked and stable enough to run the games that we pirated. We we're damn near flat broke, no lost sale there, but I got older, got a decent job and went legit.

What sours it for me is I think about some of these people having a choice "Go out drinking this weekend, or buy Mass Effect 2?" "OH WAIT I could pay to get shitfaced and throw up for 40minutes, but then screw Bioware out of some sales for thier hard work!"

Feal free to sub in cartons of ciggarettes, weed, whatever ya like. All that said, I think the reason most people pirate, is because they can, and the DLC for people with a legit key is the best way to reward, and encourage legit copies.

 

[veloper]

And I don't play games that aren't worth my time or money. I still play alot of DOS games, from back when game companies knew how to make something origional.

I don't think anyone is concearned about people copying old DOS games. If abandonware even is piracy, it is not the issue. Cool I guess.

 

[Craftybonds]

None of those numbers sound exactly right, and it also makes me wonder who's being counted twice for those statistics. For at least two of those games, i both pirated copies of them and bought official copies via steam. that's always been the downside of digital media, there's really no way to test them without handing out your money, other than piracy. at least with movies and console gaming, you can usually rent various titles, then decide whether or not you want to buy the previewed title.

I'm not going to say that all pirates do this, but when i find something that deserves 20 of my American dollars, i always hand it out. world of goo being an example of something that i quite enjoyed; i pirated a copy of this game, and upon completing it, i decided to buy a copy on steam because i felt that 2DBoy deserved my money.

Also, before someone points this out about digital media. Demos are not a sufficient way to test a game. that's like saying you can judge whether or not a movie will be well made purely based off the previews. which anyone with any sort of experience will tell you, can be quite deceptive.

 

[soulsabr]

Fixed.

Uh, case in point? I'm a jerk for being opposed to sweeping statements about people whose single universally common trait is an arguably immoral act?

Then don't pirate and you'll cease being lumped in with the other pirate jerks.

 

[Antari]

And I don't play games that aren't worth my time or money. I still play alot of DOS games, from back when game companies knew how to make something origional.

I don't think anyone is concearned about people copying old DOS games. If abandonware even is piracy, it is not the issue. Cool I guess.

Thats just when I started gaming, and have since returned to those generations of games because I'm fed up with the half-finished high school projects they expect us to pay money for these days. The industry needs to make the changes, not the customers, not the pirates, the industry. They have only themselves to blame, and always have. I'll probably die of a heart attack if they ever figure out the business they are running may refer to games, but isn't one itself.

 

[razer17]

Nothing arguable about it. People in the revolutions never claim their actions aren't radical. Pirates cannot claim their actions aren't STEALING.

Stealing is defined as taking something without permission. There is nothing to take, in a physical sense. It isn't stealing. Not to say it isn't immoral, but going into a shop and taking a game, and downloading something is immoral, it's still not stealing.

I used to download games. Some casual PC games, and a few PS2 games, the PS2 being in the last year. I stopped, because I have noticed that the PC is becoming less and less popular with developers, and I'm sure piracy has atleast something to do with it. The PS2 I downloaded because, well, the money wouldn't be going to developers anymore anyway.

Films and music, I'm less fussed about. People will always pay for films and music. People will always go to concerts and the cinema. So I do download those, although mainly music.

Also, for the anecdotal evidence of people never buying pirated games: I downloaded Peggle and PvZ for free. I now own them both, for ipod admittedly, but I still bought them. My survey says 100% of pirates buy games they download.

 

[Antari]

Nothing arguable about it. People in the revolutions never claim their actions aren't radical. Pirates cannot claim their actions aren't STEALING.

Stealing is defined as taking something without permission. There is nothing to take, in a physical sense. It isn't stealing. Not to say it isn't immoral, but going into a shop and taking a game, and downloading something is immoral, it's still not stealing.

I used to download games. Some casual PC games, and a few PS2 games, the PS2 being in the last year. I stopped, because I have noticed that the PC is becoming less and less popular with developers, and I'm sure piracy has atleast something to do with it. The PS2 I downloaded because, well, the money wouldn't be going to developers anymore anyway.

Films and music, I'm less fussed about. People will always pay for films and music. People will always go to concerts and the cinema. So I do download those, although mainly music.

Also, for the anecdotal evidence of people never buying pirated games: I downloaded Peggle and PvZ for free. I now own them both, for ipod admittedly, but I still bought them. My survey says 100% of pirates buy games they download.

The only reason developers are turning towards consoles is because of standardized hardware. Which makes programming alot easier for them. Reduced testing times, lower costs to make games. But rest assured, the price won't go down.

 

[Grubnar]

The only game i've ever downloaded from a torrent was Fallout 3 and that was because after buying the PS3 version (twice, one standard one CE for the bobblehead) and all of the DLC I got sick of the PS3 version freezing every few minutes on Point lookout and Zeta.

Bethesda were asked so many times to fix it and it fell on deaf ears, the way i figure it, there was no way I was giving them more money to play a game that I would have finished on PS3 had it not been broken by their DLC.

Simular story here. I bought Fallout 3 on STEAM. And for a time it was great.
But then Bethesda releshed a patch and the game became unplayable, after about 5 mins it would just stutter and freeze. Im told it has something to do with GFWL (games for windos live) but all I know is that I payed good money for that game and I wanted to finish it (the ending was badly done IMHO) so I pirated it. The pirate version worked perfectly!

P.S. I really like STEAM, I have about one hundred games on STEAM and this is the ONLY time I have had any problems with a game I bought on STEAM. You can imagine that Im not really happy about how Bethesda handled the issue. So fuck them!