Piracy, simply put.

[surg3n]

Piracy is the theft of a possibility of buying something.

2 people ok, you and someone with a concience (sorry, that's a bit rough, anyhoo)...

You are bored, you want to watch a movie that you haven't seen before - what do you do?
You download something, watch it, forget it ever existed.

Other person is bored, wants to watch a movie, but they won't download a pirate movie, no. They might go and buy a DVD, they might buy a movie from their cable provider, or pay to download a movie legally.

So how can you say that piracy isn't hurting anyone, when it denied someone your cash?

I said this already about piracy this week, but pirates don't grow a fricken concience just because they like something. Have you ever pirated something, then thought - hold on, I like that, I feel that the developer or whoever deserves some cash for that, I'll go buy the DVD or game or whatever?

I know your answer will be 'Yes, I have done that'. But I know just how much bullshit that is for most people. Once folk can download anything for free, they don't feel the need to start paying for stuff again, and that's the whole damn problem. How is your country doing right now financially? - I'm guessing like every other country right now, it's pretty fricken miserable. But yeah, it's all the bankers fault, it's nothing to do with the sheer lack of people spending money on luxuries. Let's all just not pay for anything, then when the people creating those movies go bust, and all the studios and producers are broke, we can listen to... and watch... ohh. How do people think the financial crisis is going to play out?, when people won't even stump up a few quid to own a movie.

Yeah, piracy is a victimless crime, so long as you have your blinkers on. Shut down your torrents and put your hand in your pocket whizkid, before your country turns into Russia, but 30 years ago. I'm not saying I'm golden, but I don't download games or movies, I just don't enjoy them unless I've paid for them, earned them, and I can enjoy them with no guilt or risk. I do download TV shows that aren't out in my country yet though, but I feel that I am somewhat entitled, given the amount of TV series box sets, feels like I helped fund Alcatraz with all the LOST DVD's and figures and keyrings and god knows what else .

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Piracy, simply put, taking something which has a perceived value without paying that price for it. Yeah, that doesn't sound like stealing at all.

Wrong.

Although I'll give you the rather tongue in cheek bit about the shoplifting, which I do know is not like piracy, I'd like you to explain exactly the other part of my statement is wrong.

When you purchase a DVD with money, you are paying for two things, the first is the physical disk, and the second is the content contained on the disk. This is why when purchased online a movie is less expensive, because you aren't buying the physical disk as well.

However, that means that the content on the disk (ie. the movie or game) must have a monetary value, otherwise it would be offered for free by the publishers whenever it wasn't on a disk.

So, by downloading a movie or game for free you are taking a copy of something which has monetary value (the content of the game/movie) and not paying for it. Please explain to me how this is not wrong?

Call it what you want, copyright infringement, theft, piracy, but in the end you are taking something that has monetary value without paying money for it, and most people with actual brains in their heads would call this wrong.

 

[RubyT]

So how can you say that piracy isn't hurting anyone, when it denied someone your cash?

What if I don't have the cash? What if I'm bored and it's between streaming a movie or continue being bored? (Let's ignore the healthy alternatives of me doing something productive)

Have you ever pirated something, then thought - hold on, I like that, I feel that the developer or whoever deserves some cash for that, I'll go buy the DVD or game or whatever?

Once. But it was more me wanting to have the original box art of the game. I had pirated "Half Life" on the school yard, as everyone did. Later I actually bought Half Life 2, Episode 1 and The Orange Box. Now I wanted to complete the collection. I wasn't really thinking about Valve. This was in 2008 and the game was in the bargain bin of the local hardware store (WTF!), I don't think Valve actually received any of the money at this point.

I do download TV shows that aren't out in my country yet though, but I feel that I am somewhat entitled, given the amount of TV series box sets, feels like I helped fund Alcatraz with all the LOST DVD's and figures and keyrings and god knows what else .

Ah, so you're just less ethically corrupt than me.

 

[Viridian]

Piracy, simply put, taking something which has a perceived value without paying that price for it. Yeah, that doesn't sound like stealing at all.

Wrong.

Although I'll give you the rather tongue in cheek bit about the shoplifting, which I do know is not like piracy, I'd like you to explain exactly the other part of my statement is wrong.

When you purchase a DVD with money, you are paying for two things, the first is the physical disk, and the second is the content contained on the disk. This is why when purchased online a movie is less expensive, because you aren't buying the physical disk as well.

However, that means that the content on the disk (ie. the movie or game) must have a monetary value, otherwise it would be offered for free by the publishers whenever it wasn't on a disk.

So, by downloading a movie or game for free you are taking a copy of something which has monetary value (the content of the game/movie) and not paying for it. Please explain to me how this is not wrong?

Call it what you want, copyright infringement, theft, piracy, but in the end you are taking something that has monetary value without paying money for it, and most people with actual brains in their heads would call this wrong.

At the end of the day, it just boils down to a) Wanting something b) Not wanting to pay for it and c) Low odds of getting caught

If commodities on the internet were a finite source, they would still get pirated to hell and back.

 

[Maveroid]

People don't get critizised for waiting a year until the retail price drops to $10. Well, they might as well download the game right away and mail the dev $10. Personal asketicism during one's time of abstinence isn't helping their employees pay the rent anyway.

Imagine you get Skyrim in 2 years when its only $5-10.
Will there still be forum threads about it where you can actively participate and have even more fun exploring the world because you can share your experience with other people? Maybe, but not likely. Paying more money for a new game adds community-fun as well as bragging rights and special editions. Also, you appreciate the game by paying full price for it. I know you don't care about that, but maybe the developer won't be so motivated to make a new Elder Scrolls when half the people pirated it (which they don't know) and they got only half the money (which is a fact). Simply put, you support the community and motivate the developers.

What does that conscience say when you proudly buy a video game full price like a good patriot, and then play it on the X-Box that is only so cheap because some legal slave in China assembled it for 2 bucks a day, while you're wearing the T-Shirt that some Indonesian kid sowed instead of going to school?

Is it better if they work for nothing? Is it better if the products that they are making are just going to go out for free making their labor even less appreciated than it already is? I know you don't value conscience (as you have mentioned many,many times in your post) but come on.

Also, do you think you know more than we do? Everything factual that you said was unnecessarily repeated and your opinion is one of two already loudly proclaimed opinions, the first being that piracy is just bad. If it makes you feel better, I would have rather read a post about a raging fanboy calling the Playstation 3 names for being something that isn't as good as the Xbox360 in some guy's opinion.

 

[RubyT]

So, by downloading a movie or game for free you are taking a copy of something which has monetary value (the content of the game/movie) and not paying for it. Please explain to me how this is not wrong?

1) If I buy, I gain and the other party gains. This is obviously the optimum.
2) If I copy, I gain and the other party doesn't gain.
3) If I abstain, neither of us gains.

How is 3) better than 2), objectively?

 

[RubyT]

If it makes you feel better, I would have rather read a post about a raging fanboy calling the Playstation 3 names for being something that isn't as good as the Xbox360 in some guy's opinion.

You still can. Though I don't know why that would make me feel better.

 

[Maveroid]

If it makes you feel better, I would have rather read a post about a raging fanboy calling the Playstation 3 names for being something that isn't as good as the Xbox360 in some guy's opinion.

You still can. Though I don't know why that would make me feel better.

You are right, that was a dumb comment.
Excuse me.

 

[Something Amyss]

No, piracy is not stealing. This idea has pissed me off for a loooong time, ever since the DVD manufacturers started that fucking stupid "you wouldn't steal a car!" advert.

Keep in mind it goes back further than that. It once was that the recording industry ran adverts to tell you "taping off the radio is stealing."

This sort of crap goes back really far.

 

[weker]

What if the pirate bought the game and I pay him?

As in you buy his own version off him or he makes a copy?
If he is copying the game then it is breaking the law.
If he is selling you the actual game, then it is in the same place as the preowned game.

Yeah, because it really bugs me that you, "weker", a person I will never know frowns upon me, "RubyT", as my mother undoubtedly must have called you.

You posted on a forum, one which has a negative pirating focus due to the way the forums worked. It is really not a surprise that more then a few made a similar statement to me, as it's clear you haven't looked into the subject and that you are just trying to make it seem like it's alright to pirate and such.
Your breaking a law, and it's a fair one. People worked for the product, and their entitled to be payed for their work, and if a publisher or what ever buys owner ship for the product they are entitled to the money when the product sells.

Copyright Infringement is there for a reason, it's their to ensure that the owners are actually getting money rather then just one person cracking it and selling it on to everyone else.

 

[Viridian]

So, by downloading a movie or game for free you are taking a copy of something which has monetary value (the content of the game/movie) and not paying for it. Please explain to me how this is not wrong?

1) If I buy, I gain and the other party gains. This is obviously the optimum.
2) If I copy, I gain and the other party doesn't gain.
3) If I abstain, neither of us gains.

How is 3) better than 2), objectively?

Objectively? As in, not taking ethical behavior into account?

...It's illegal. Doesn't get much more objective than that. You can say that it being illegal is bullshit and stupid and whatever, but that doesn't change its legality, even if I agreed with you. Other than that, 3 is only better than 2 subjectively. 2 is horrible if the pirate would have bought it legally if it weren't available otherwise.

 

[RoyalWelsh]

So how can you say that piracy isn't hurting anyone, when it denied someone your cash?

What if I don't have the cash? What if I'm bored and it's between streaming a movie or continue being bored? (Let's ignore the healthy alternatives of me doing something productive)

Then get the cash, you know, by getting a job or saving up. Then you can pay for things instead of stealing or whatever. It will make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

[Laurie Barnes]

I need to amend my

I have a very simple response to most of the original post. Now I am not advocating piracy, because it is illegal, and to promote an illegal activity would violate my user agreement, in addition to being morally questionable and irresponsible.
However, if I were to pirate something that I simply could not acquire through honest means, I can safely say its not something I would be likely to feel a whole lot of remorse for. Mostly because the sorts of things that fall into the category of things I could not justly acquire, are likely products from long since disbanded, gutted, or bankrupt creators, or the faceless corporations who now own the rights but never plan to use them.

Pirating is easy to do, but not to justify, because in addition to being morally dubious, it is entirely against the law. One could argue from that alone that the act is unjust, though I would simply argue that pirating is gaining something you haven't earned, and is a fundamentally flawed practice that teaches a very bad habit.

To put simply I think you are incorrect, not just in your belief of piracy being justified, but in your analogy involving a bus.
Piracy is not like paying for part of the trip, and sticking around until your stop, it is more like using technology to conceal yourself so that you can ride without paying at all. I think you'll find when it is put that way, few will agree that it is just.

Are there any rules against quoting yourself? I checked the user agreement, and I don't think there are.
Aaanyway. I mean to amend my earlier post. A thought had not occurred to me at the time of my post.
People keep saying piracy is not theft. I disagree, and agree, its complicated. The intellectual property that is often pirated has monetary worth, so taking it is in fact stealing. However, it costs nothing to reproduce, meaning that any digital copies of the game that are sold are 100% profit to the publisher. The digital copy is worth whatever the publisher decides it is worth.

Its not like a car or a toaster, which has to have the minimum price of its raw materials and the cost of manufacturing in order to turn a profit, digital intellectual property could be sold for a single dollar and still be profitable. It seems a bit like a scam when you seen the publisher charging upwards of $50 dollars for something that doesn't even exist. I think this is how publishers must view pirates, as potential customers that have simply decided that the product is worthless, and that they are taking it for free.

 

[Ruwrak]

Wow, I knew there were some opinions on this but... Geez some of them are so twisted around they resemble a candycane's pattern (probably my opinion will be viewed as that as well).

Let me put this up here first, I pay for my games. If I want to have a game but it's to expensive to my opinion (judged by demo's, reviews or personal taste and 'knowing what I like') I wait till it hits the bargainbin, easy as that.

[disclaimer]
The following are my thoughts on a variety of matters, I wish not to offend anyone and if you felt you're attacked then you're reading it wrong. [/disclaimer]

"Piracy is not stealing". In what way is it not stealing? To me it sounds like you're taking something off the net from the companies (there are a few more links in that chain of course, but bear with me.) without paying. It's using a service (i.e. watching a movie or playing a game could be considered use of a product or use of a service) without paying. In my eyes that's still theft since beeing able to use the service / product would require something in return, payment that is.

I'm a bit shocked (well not shocked, more amazed) by some of the responces that say taking something from people who worked hard to get the service/product done is allright. Of course the workers got paid during the project just like any other job. But eventually that money has to come from somewhere (sales). If the money would stop or be significant less there might be less money available to invest in new technologies or making new games. I know it's an extreme to say a company like Blizzard or Activision or Ubisoft would go out of business because of this, but still. . .

I think that in a way that the lack of moral understanding (or the not caring about moral understanding, since you can have morals but choose not to abide by them at the time) caused things like the annoying ads for "YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A MOVIE" at the beginning of a bought DVD .(A pet peeve of mine. I already bought it, why bug me with it? What's your point DVD? It's like saying Jezus rules in Church. Everyone will nod like: "Well.. Yeah.. That's why we're here right?). And with that in mind I might as well also dare to say that SOPA & PIPA are also a responce to the behavior of piracy.

Yes yes, I know SOPA is bad and I support the movement against SOPA & PIPA, keep your shirt on. But think about it. Companies feel cornered by piracy / copyright infringement and will go very far to ensure their survival (or the survival of their own wallet.) as we can see in the past few months. I can't (and won't) force anyone to think like me, but cool your heels for a moment and think about it, there are a few possibilities in my eyes.

Piracy ('because we can') -> Drop of income -> Angsty companies -> Rules & regulations against Piracy -> SOPA
High prices for mediocre things -> Piracy ('not paying x for y') -> Angsty companies -> SOPA PIPA.
Indifference towards others -> Piracy ('I don't care, it's a victimless crime since no phyisical person will get hurt who -needs- the money.) -> Companies as a whole feel their excistance threatened -> Regulations (Like DRM or Steam type protections) -> People find ways around it -> SOPA & PIPA Proposition.

Or that's how I see it. I can't help to feel that piracy is both a result and beginning of a couple of situations that need to get ironed out.

My 2 cents anyway, thought I drop my thoughts here.

 

[weker]

Wrong.

It's actually not that far off, while I understand the point your making the "it's an actual physical object that has to be made, not just data" (at least that's the point I assume your making) time has to still be spent on creating the data. Copyright Infringement is certainly not theft, but it's not far off, and I think the comparisons are close enough to be "fairly valid".
Time has been spent making these (time=money as some would say) and with the other (time+ resources=money) they are both entitled to be traded for money and such, however they physical version is still more costly.
I hope I can convey what I mean, you will still most likely disagree, but then again it's a sketchy point

 

[DestinyCall]

Software piracy is often equated with stealing. This always rubbed me the wrong way, because nothing is "stolen" when someone pirates a game. Piracy is actually more like counterfeiting or forgery. A software pirate is making or distributing illicit copies of the game. It isn't theft, but it IS wrong - it's a kind of fraud. The pirate is creating a knock-off of the original item that indirectly decreases the value of the original work.

People tend to use the mental shorthand of "stealing" because it is a simpler concept for the layperson to grasp and easier to provoke an emotional response. But it isn't the most accurate description of the crime and I feel like it leads to confusion and people trying to justify their piracy as "victimless theft".

theft [θɛft]
n
1. (Law) Criminal law the dishonest taking of property belonging to another person with the intention of depriving the owner permanently of its possession

coun·ter·feit (kountr-ft)
v. coun·ter·feit·ed, coun·ter·feit·ing, coun·ter·feits
1. To make a copy of, usually with the intent to defraud; forge: counterfeits money.
2. To make fraudulent copies of something valuable.
adj.
1. Made in imitation of what is genuine with the intent to defraud: a counterfeit dollar bill.
2. Simulated; feigned: a counterfeit illness.
n.
A fraudulent imitation or facsimile.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Piracy's not stealing, because nothing is taken.

So funny that comment. Lets say you create a picture and want to sell it for £10 each. Instead of buying it 50 people photocopy it. Is that stealing? By your reasoning its not stealing as the original picture wasnt taken and you wouldn't even be angry at the people that did it even though you have just lost £500 in sales.

 

[rob_simple]

Is anybody else getting sick of these threads? The logic of pirating is so flawed I honestly can't understand people that genuinely think they're in the right.

The general consensus of you people seems to be 'I'm not prepared to pay these prices; so I'll steal' which is pretty much the mantra of every single thief on the planet who steals for gain rather than necessity.

You don't need video games, so all that bullshit about not being able to pay rent because you started buying them means nothing. I have to pay rent just like you, so I buy a new game maybe every three or four months. This is what I like to call priorities.

All this self-serving Robin Hood bullshit is starting to wear really thin. If you pirate all your media (and I make this distinction because I do actually think piracy is justified in some cases,) you are stealing, and you don't need to feel bad about it, you just have to accept it as fact. Not necessarily law, just fact.

 

[rob_simple]

Is anybody else getting sick of these threads? The logic of pirating is so flawed I honestly can't understand people that genuinely think they're in the right.

The general consensus of you people seems to be 'I'm not prepared to pay these prices; so I'll steal' which is pretty much the mantra of every single thief on the planet who steals for gain rather than necessity.

You don't need video games, so all that bullshit about not being able to pay rent because you started buying them means nothing. I have to pay rent just like you, so I buy a new game maybe every three or four months. This is what I like to call priorities.

All this self-serving Robin Hood bullshit is starting to wear really thin. If you pirate all your media (and I make this distinction because I do actually think piracy is justified in some cases,) you are stealing, and you don't need to feel bad about it, you just have to accept it as fact. Not necessarily law, just fact.

I'm getting sick of people posting in these threads bringing up "theft" and "stealing" when we already have a proper term.

Cool story bro, way to add to the debate.

 

[weker]

Cool story bro, way to add to the debate.

A bit ironic yourself there , best avoid conflicting otherwise you could both wind up in trouble. I am still surprised this thread hasn't been closed and has been left to run, with the OP admitting pirating and such, and not to mention the small amount of posters in this thread so far.