Please let Pokemon gracefully exit.

[SpectacularWebHead]

Oh, and from now on, I am only responding to the most clever arguments or the most pants on head retarded.

It's a fact that people who play and enjoy Pokemon Black and White 2 are 24% smarter than those that don't. It also cured genital warts and the common cold. And cancer.

Why hello there.
That's the smartest argument i've had from this forum!

The burden of such immense intelligence is both a gift and a curse.

Must be terrible at times.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

Oh boy, someone who thinks his opinion about the design of the new Pokes is a fact...

Isn't that exactly what you're doing by implying that I'm wrong?

No. you see, he is not implying that he is right, he is saying that your opinion is not fact.

That you are wrong, because you posted as if your opinion on other generations was factually held together. Which it was not.

Your opinion is nothing more than how you personally feel.

Okay, my opinion on the design of B and W 1 is opinion, but everything I have said about black and white 2 is fact, due to the simple process of what nintendo has said, what the fans have said, and the history of pokemon as a whole. It looks something like this.

History: Pokemon has not deviated massively from it's plot in 15 years, the same can be said of B and W.
Fans: "B and W 2 fulfills the same role as Yellow, crystal, Emerald, platinum" The role of these games was easy access to the third legendary pokemon of the region. Pokemon Black and White 2 do not have a third Legendary to catch.
Nintendo: *See above.

From this, what has been said by nintendo AND the fans, and the simple fact there are no new pokemon, we can deduce that Black and white 2, if it is indeed fulfilling the role that Y, C, E and Pl played before it, With no additional pokemon, it will not be any differnet to the first game, as Y, C etc did not change the plots of there respective games to any large extent, and the way it did was about the pokemon. Quid Pro Quo, Black And White 2 is a con.

Opinion=/=Fact

Understand that.

Now, I know it might seem daunting, but actually READ what is below. READ IT. Because you honestly don't seem to know anything about B2/W2, other than having something to do with the first games.

Following your arguement, Emerald was largely unnecessary then, as you could already get Rayquaza. Crystal was also unnecessary, as all it did was add a small story about Suicune, whom you could also already catch. Yallow has absolutely no legendary at all, it just forces you to have a Pikachu which you can't even evolve, and was just a tie-in for the anime to rope in more children who wanted to play as Ash, even including Jessie and James from Team Rocket and a horribly ear-raping "PIKA!" whenever you released Pikachu (which I still find it hilarious how they made Red's team based on the Yellow team including all three starters and the Pikachu, assuming most children would have played it and had something similar in their roster).

Hell, the only actual game that had a legend you coulod not obtain before would be Platinum's Giratina.

Are you even listening to yourself in the second half of that post?

You're saying it's not a sequel because...it doesn't have exactly the same story, and adds more than just a small story tack-on about a third legendary (Which, By the way, it does, focusing on Kyurem, AND TWO NEW LEGENDARY POKEMON YOU WERE UNABLE TO CATCH IN THE ORIGINALS)? Your non-logic hurts my mind. That has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

"Since all the other third games only tacked on a small story ans barely changed anything, then OBVIOUSLY going beyond that and making the games much better than just a third-legend cash-in is not a sequel."

What?

So, basically, I just pushed your arguement down in the mud and had my way with it.

It has a NEW story focusing on Kyurem CAUSING A FUCKING ICE AGE, following a NEW protagonist, but focusing on events that happened as a DIRECT CAUSE of the events of the first game. THAT IS HOW A SEQUEL STORY WORKS.

You now have the ability to capture OTHER POKEMON you were not able to capture in the first games, old or not. "NEW" POKEMON for that specific version, and for any children who had never played the other games before.

There are NEW FEATURES, including the Stadium and Pokewood.

If you want to complain about the graphics not changing, allow me to point you to a little game called Mass Effect 3, maybe you've heard of it. Y'know, the final installment than uses the same graphics engine as Mass Effect 2?

NOW PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME INTELLIGENTLY HOW GIVING US MORE IN THESE NEW GAMES THAN WE WOULD GET IN SOME SHITTY THIRD-ITERATION WHICH CHANGED ALMOST NOTHING IS A FUCKING CON.

Capitals don't make your post more valid btw. I'm only still engaging in this with you because I want to see what you're going to be wrong about next.

 

[Don't taze me bro]

I started playing Pokemon Red, on the colour gameboy. I'm 35, and still enjoy the series. I have to admit, that ever since the first 151 Pokemon, I am always initially disappointed with the subsequent additions to the Pokemon family. It takes a while for me to appreciate each new addition to the franchise. It's change. People don't always like it, but you deal with it and move on.

 

[Smeggs]

Capitals don't make my point more valid, they make it more obvious to see when people decide to TL;DR a post and don't read actual facts.

I'm only still engaging in this with you because I want to see what you're going to be wrong about next.

Trolling then. Got it. Or you're an idiot. Either way.

 

[Uratoh]

I bought it, and it was a good game, but it was...how do I put it? It was like, "Baby's first TBS." Each Pokemon only gets one attack and can only attack a certain way? Basically all it is is the same spamming as before, the only actual fight I had to truly plan for was the final battle against Nobunaga and his goons, and that's only because of you-know-what replacing your chosen monster. Would've killed them outright with my ultra-buff Beartic. Every other battle was just an affair of "Equip Dragon Breath users, surround enemy, spam for 40hp damage until victory."

If you manage to get Gyarados and Garchomp/Dragonite the game becomes almost laughably easy right up to the end.

So you've only done the Legend of Ransei then? That's effectively a glorified tutorial...there's a mission for ever single Warlord in the game, and some of them are near impossible without proper preparation beforehand. Also, if you think Dragonite's OP, you haven't seen Infernape...

 

[Macgyvercas]

While I may hate Gen V (actually, I don't acknowledge the existence of of any Pokemon beyond the Johto region), but I'm not going to demand Nintendo kill one of their most successful franchises. I just won't play the new ones.

 

[bojackx]

Pokemon never deviates from it's core story mechanic to far. The furthest it goes is the circumstance you get the starter under, massive plot changes in a pokemon do not and will not happen.
They said the exact same thing about platinum, and it was pretty much the same as D and P.

If it never deviated from its core story mechanic, and you still liked Platinum, then that doesn't seem like much of a complaint if you've been putting up with it for 4 generations.

Also, Black and White 2 takes place in a number of new locations in Unova where the old generation Pokemon will inhabit. There's also new Gym leaders as well. This isn't a remake like Platinum, it's an actual sequel.

And as other people have said, stating the new Pokemon are bad as a fact does not make it so. I like the new ones, as do lots of other people. It seems like nostalgia for the old Pokemon exists only in people who are no longer fans of the franchise, weeeeeird.

 

[JediMB]

As someone who hasn't played Pokémon since I sold my copy of Emerald to a friend, I certainly would appreciate if the series got a true overhaul to bring it into the 21st century in both graphics and game mechanics.

That doesn't seem like it's going to happen, though, so I'll just accept that the franchise isn't for me anymore, and hasn't been for a long time. I have no problem with comparing it to Call of Duty, as it is stuck in a state where they can't afford to change it too much if they are to hold onto their fanbase, making each new chapter simply a small upgrade of the previous experience.

 

[Starik20X6]

The thing that a lot of people seem to forget about sequelization is this: You aren't the only one playing these games. Sure, you might have been playing since Gen. 1 of Pokémon, but can you say the same about an 8 year old? Just because you may have had enough of a series doesn't mean later generations need be deprived of them. I wasn't alive for the release of Super Mario Bros., so I was pretty stoked when New Super Mario Bros. was announced.

The debate about quality can go on forever, but claiming a series needs to stop because you think the world has had enough is just dumb.

 

[Pebblig]

I entirely agree, I do love Pokemon...but the inundated pokedex becomes confusing, and Pokemon Black just didn't seem as good ): So really I think the only thing I could really want from Pokemon is a DS remake of Pokemon Yellow. So I highly doubt that I'll ever buy Black and White 2, especially with some of the horrendous spin-offs that are/have appeared.

 

[Andrew Bascom]

Honestly part of what I think makes Pokemon so good, is that for the most part the formula doesn't change. I can pick up a copy of a Pokemon game and know pretty much what I'm getting for game play. On the other hand Black and White made some pretty cool graphical changes as well as story changes which made it on of the more refreshing Pokemon games I've played so far. Are the Pokemon worse now? Well yeah the designs of many of them don't appeal to me or my fellow Pokemon players, but this is bound to happen when you've made over 500 monsters. I'm looking forward to Black and White 2, because I know that I'll enjoy it and because I think it'll be neat to see what Nintendo has in mind for a direct sequel to the last games. I know a lot of people like you, apparently, whom have grown out of the games and that's fine, but the series shouldn't die just because you don't like it, not that it will anyway Nintendo makes too much money off it.

 

[The White Hunter]

SUDDENLY: OPINIONS EVERYWHERE

Pokemon was an enormous part of my childhood, though I generally stopped paying attention after gen 2, sticking with R/B/Y and G/S/C. Black and White revived my interest in the series, and I'm genuinely looking forward to B/W 2 as it looks like they have a chance to be the best Pokemon games I've ever played.

You grew up. You got older. And now, you don't enjoy the new games as much as you enjoyed the older games when you were a kid. Sounds like you have a TRAGIC variation of Star-Wars-Fan-Itis.

Just because you don't like the series anymore doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. It's bigger than it's ever been, and it'll continue to grow whether you like it or not.

Yeah black and white really kick started my love for pokemon again, I found the lack of old pokemon in the Unova region very refreshing, as well as the much more straight forward way the game was set out.

My only major gripes were a lack of post game content and the fact alot of pokemon evolved very late, some to the point of not being viable in game despite being very good pokemon (Braviary, Bisharp, etc). That and the interface for menus was better in Heart Gold/Soul Silver, all on the touch screen.

I'll also put out there that there have been crap designs in every generation and good designs in every generation. I found the Gen 5 pokemon much more interesting than Gen 4 because it wasn't a huge mound of evolutions and prevolutions that nobody wanted or needed.

The only pokemon game I haven't thoroughly enjoyed from the main series were diamond and pearl, platinum fixed those two in my opinion and made the new pokemon easier to get and let you have them before the post game.

Bring on Black/White 2 I say, wish challenge mode was from the start though. Eventually, bring on generation 6, provided the fire starter isn't fire/fighting again.

EDIT: Oh look, this thread again...

EDIT EDIT: Also, thhe games aren't about catching them all anymore I don't think, and that never appealed to me anyway. I personally prefer to just go on adventure with 4-6 pokemon that catch my eye as I go, occasionally setting myself a single type challenge or something.

 

[nasteypenguin]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I heard Black and White 2 are new stories, as in not just a crystal or emerald esque retelling of their current gens story with extra bits, B&W2 are set like 10 years after the original?

Black 2 and White 2 are not the same game, nor are they like Crystal/Emerald/Platinum. They are a direct sequel to the Black and White where you play as a new trainer some time after the events of Black and White. So the story is brand new, not just a updated version like the other 3rd games.

Ah see, I didn't think I was making this up. I still like Pokemon, even as someone who first played Blue I still like most of the new Pokemon designs, there's just one that bugs me and I can't quite figure out why...

AH! aha! I may be a little slow but I just realised why I dislike this thing, not for the design itself, but it's the first Pokemon to be based on what could solely be described as a food product. That's just wrong, you should not make a Pokemon that looks like it's purpose is to be eaten. The fact I know why now makes me hate it a little less, as long as this thing isn't going to spawn new food Pokemon, I'm ok with them having this little experiment.

 

[Baron_Rouge]

I don't think the Pokemon of this generation are any less creative and original than they have been before. I mean, yes, you can point to Vanilluxe and so forth, but look at generation 1. Muk. Exeggcute. Mr Mime.Now look at this generation. Hydreigon. Bisharp. Darmanitan. Granted, it works the same both ways, but that's exactly my point...there have always been good Pokemon and bad Pokemon, and Pokemon based on both novel, creative ideas and stupid ideas. The Pokemon of this generation are not any worse than the Pokemon of any other generation, in my opinion.

Also, Black/White were, if anything, more creative than past games with their entire region full of new Pokemon, as well as an increased emphasis on story that we haven't seen before. Now they're getting direct sequels, something else we haven't seen before. Game Freak has not run out of ideas, Pokemon have not run out of creativity, and I love this generation as much as the last.

Additionally, B/W 2 have topped the sales charts in Japan. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that millions of other people have to dislike it too, and it shouldn't "gracefully exit" if millions of people still want it to continue.

 

[MammothBlade]

Pokemon should just commit seppuku:

Soon. Soon it will die of shame.

 

[LooK iTz Jinjo]

I would point you all to this:

Spoiler

It's name is Trubbish it is a 5th Gen Pokemon, prominent in Black and White. It is quite literally a garbage bag with eyes. It's name is quite literally the word 'rubbish' prefixed with a 't.' When I saw this in the game for the first time, this was the point I realized, "Shit they are running out of ideas."

I did not enjoy Black/White anywhere near as much as I enjoyed the original R/B/G and the subsequent remakes Fire Red and Leaf Green. Now this is not to say "I didn't enjoy it, so no one did" BUT it is to say that when you do have a large amount of people feeling disenfranchised by these new Pokemon, a significantly larger amount of people than when say Gen 3 or 4 came out, maybe we need to have a more in depth discussion than just yelling at each other about whose OPINION is more valid.

 

[pilf]

I love pokemon, and was madly enthusiastic about playing gen 5 partly because of all the hype and press I'd seen prior to the games release. However after playing the game for the best part of a day when it finally arrived through my door, I was left feeling unfulfilled. The amount of exposition you have to slog through is a little overwhelming and I actually felt drained after playing. (In other words the game left me without a single f-word to give). This is what disappoints me most about generation five, despite an intriguing story the way in which it was delivered left me pretty much despising the game after my second day of play.

I have recently been thinking of lading Black up again and maybe this time I will find more to love about it as I already have some understanding of the new world but it will always be hard for any pokemon game (except my original red) to feel more interesting and important than the Diamond I've sunk 200+ hours into. Maybe that's my problem, and the problem of so many that dislike the fifth gen, we are too caught up on our own ideas of what makes the games good, our own feelings toward the past and all the good times we had with the previous games (even gen 3, which I loved) ultimately, nostalgia has taken hold.

 

[Lilani]

Pretty much, yes. (Metaphorically, yeah actually)

Look, there's only so many times you can do the same thing before it gets old and starts to ruin the previous times it's been done. Releasing black and white AGAIN takes the piss, and starts pokemon off on the slippery slope of terribad. What you're saying is fair enough, my personal preference about Black and White 1 are irrelevant. My opinions on B and W 2 are not, because it is LITERALLY THE SAME GAME, which is pretty crap of nintendo to do to their fans, especially the diehards who would accept it if they released pokemon brown edition in the region of Pooplova with every pokemon based on Hideo Kishima's (May have spelt that wrong) bowel movements. Nintendo mis-treats it's fanbase, this is the perfect example of them using adoration to blind people to the truth. It isn't fair.

I can understand your concern, but here's the thing: Pokemon fans still like the Pokemon games. I can understand if it were one of those sequel-based franchises that even the core base began to despise a few games ago, but Pokemon fans young and old still love the games. A long lasting franchise is not an inherently bad thing, hell look at Zelda. Skyward Sword was well received and people still have a lot of hope and excitement left for the next Zelda games.

And it's the same thing I'm seeing with the Pokemon games. The only criticism I've seen offered so far is how long the series has lasted, the similar games, and the massive piles of money Nintendo makes from it. And I say, so what? Fans still love the games. The battle system has massively changed over the years, from what I've told, and it's actually gotten quite sophisticated. Spin-off games like Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and Pokemon Conquest are revered as some of the best the series has ever offered, but experiments like that wouldn't be possible if Nintendo didn't have some extra money sitting around from previous successes.

And not only that, since a huge part of the target audience is still children, it really makes sense that Nintendo would continue to release games, from a business standpoint. If a kid these days wants to get into Pokemon, are they going to track down a Gameboy color, or one of the original GBC or GBA cartridges? Fuck no. They'll tell their parents they want a Pokemon game, and their parents will track down the easiest to find Pokemon game. Most parents aren't going to thrilled with plumbing depths of Amazon and Ebay to find a game that hasn't been made in years. They're going to want to go to the nearest game store and pick it up. And that supply of newer, easier to find games would not stay consistent if new games weren't coming out.

Is it being kept around for the purpose of money? Of course it is. I've yet to see a franchise last any length of time that didn't make a bit of money in its time. But the difference here is the fans still want it, and the only people who don't want it are mostly concerned for the length of time the franchise has been around, which is pretty irrelevant. It's not this generation's job to watch out for your childhood. It's their turn for their childhood, so let them have their Pokemon games as they know them and just leave them alone.

 

[Lilani]

It's name is Trubbish it is a 5th Gen Pokemon, prominent in Black and White. It is quite literally a garbage bag with eyes. It's name is quite literally the word 'rubbish' prefixed with a 't.'

Sort of how Grimer is just a pile of sludge and the name is the word "Grime" with an "r" stuck on the end?

 

[latiasracer]

Personally, i'd like to see

-More Mystery Dungeon games (Those where fun, i loved the fuck out of the DS ones)
. :'( foreveralone.jpg

I actually read that statement....from someone else on this forum.

Praise Arceus!

Explorers of Time was probably my favorite.

...Another?

Hell yeah, that one was the best. I think i nearly cried at one point in the story. Nothing in my entire steam libary has made me do that, but frekkin Explorers of time did.

The only bad thing i can say about the series is that the other one (Darkness..i think?) wasn't different atall. I figured in time you would go after the time cogs, so i presumed that something different would feature in the other one (Like...Light cogs!)