Please let Pokemon gracefully exit.

[LooK iTz Jinjo]

I would point you all to this:

Spoiler

It's name is Trubbish it is a 5th Gen Pokemon, prominent in Black and White. It is quite literally a garbage bag with eyes. It's name is quite literally the word 'rubbish' prefixed with a 't.' When I saw this in the game for the first time, this was the point I realized, "Shit they are running out of ideas."

I did not enjoy Black/White anywhere near as much as I enjoyed the original R/B/G and the subsequent remakes Fire Red and Leaf Green. Now this is not to say "I didn't enjoy it, so no one did" BUT it is to say that when you do have a large amount of people feeling disenfranchised by these new Pokemon, a significantly larger amount of people than when say Gen 3 or 4 came out, maybe we need to have a more in depth discussion than just yelling at each other about whose OPINION is more valid.

 

[pilf]

I love pokemon, and was madly enthusiastic about playing gen 5 partly because of all the hype and press I'd seen prior to the games release. However after playing the game for the best part of a day when it finally arrived through my door, I was left feeling unfulfilled. The amount of exposition you have to slog through is a little overwhelming and I actually felt drained after playing. (In other words the game left me without a single f-word to give). This is what disappoints me most about generation five, despite an intriguing story the way in which it was delivered left me pretty much despising the game after my second day of play.

I have recently been thinking of lading Black up again and maybe this time I will find more to love about it as I already have some understanding of the new world but it will always be hard for any pokemon game (except my original red) to feel more interesting and important than the Diamond I've sunk 200+ hours into. Maybe that's my problem, and the problem of so many that dislike the fifth gen, we are too caught up on our own ideas of what makes the games good, our own feelings toward the past and all the good times we had with the previous games (even gen 3, which I loved) ultimately, nostalgia has taken hold.

 

[Lilani]

Pretty much, yes. (Metaphorically, yeah actually)

Look, there's only so many times you can do the same thing before it gets old and starts to ruin the previous times it's been done. Releasing black and white AGAIN takes the piss, and starts pokemon off on the slippery slope of terribad. What you're saying is fair enough, my personal preference about Black and White 1 are irrelevant. My opinions on B and W 2 are not, because it is LITERALLY THE SAME GAME, which is pretty crap of nintendo to do to their fans, especially the diehards who would accept it if they released pokemon brown edition in the region of Pooplova with every pokemon based on Hideo Kishima's (May have spelt that wrong) bowel movements. Nintendo mis-treats it's fanbase, this is the perfect example of them using adoration to blind people to the truth. It isn't fair.

I can understand your concern, but here's the thing: Pokemon fans still like the Pokemon games. I can understand if it were one of those sequel-based franchises that even the core base began to despise a few games ago, but Pokemon fans young and old still love the games. A long lasting franchise is not an inherently bad thing, hell look at Zelda. Skyward Sword was well received and people still have a lot of hope and excitement left for the next Zelda games.

And it's the same thing I'm seeing with the Pokemon games. The only criticism I've seen offered so far is how long the series has lasted, the similar games, and the massive piles of money Nintendo makes from it. And I say, so what? Fans still love the games. The battle system has massively changed over the years, from what I've told, and it's actually gotten quite sophisticated. Spin-off games like Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and Pokemon Conquest are revered as some of the best the series has ever offered, but experiments like that wouldn't be possible if Nintendo didn't have some extra money sitting around from previous successes.

And not only that, since a huge part of the target audience is still children, it really makes sense that Nintendo would continue to release games, from a business standpoint. If a kid these days wants to get into Pokemon, are they going to track down a Gameboy color, or one of the original GBC or GBA cartridges? Fuck no. They'll tell their parents they want a Pokemon game, and their parents will track down the easiest to find Pokemon game. Most parents aren't going to thrilled with plumbing depths of Amazon and Ebay to find a game that hasn't been made in years. They're going to want to go to the nearest game store and pick it up. And that supply of newer, easier to find games would not stay consistent if new games weren't coming out.

Is it being kept around for the purpose of money? Of course it is. I've yet to see a franchise last any length of time that didn't make a bit of money in its time. But the difference here is the fans still want it, and the only people who don't want it are mostly concerned for the length of time the franchise has been around, which is pretty irrelevant. It's not this generation's job to watch out for your childhood. It's their turn for their childhood, so let them have their Pokemon games as they know them and just leave them alone.

 

[Lilani]

It's name is Trubbish it is a 5th Gen Pokemon, prominent in Black and White. It is quite literally a garbage bag with eyes. It's name is quite literally the word 'rubbish' prefixed with a 't.'

Sort of how Grimer is just a pile of sludge and the name is the word "Grime" with an "r" stuck on the end?

 

[latiasracer]

Personally, i'd like to see

-More Mystery Dungeon games (Those where fun, i loved the fuck out of the DS ones)
. :'( foreveralone.jpg

I actually read that statement....from someone else on this forum.

Praise Arceus!

Explorers of Time was probably my favorite.

...Another?

Hell yeah, that one was the best. I think i nearly cried at one point in the story. Nothing in my entire steam libary has made me do that, but frekkin Explorers of time did.

The only bad thing i can say about the series is that the other one (Darkness..i think?) wasn't different atall. I figured in time you would go after the time cogs, so i presumed that something different would feature in the other one (Like...Light cogs!)

 

[Ragland]

... Is that Aquilamon?

 

[Arqus_Zed]

Pokémon still has a solid mechanic. Not surprisingly, since the series pretty much just stole the gameplay from the Megaten series. A series that originated 9 years before the first Pokémon (and thus also had almost a decade to work on its mechanic before GameFreak copied it and made it all child-friendly).

Now, I have nothing against copy/pasting gameplay mechanics from other games, that's just the way media like this evolves. I do have a problem with people that don't give props where props are due.

With its oversimplified, child-friendly re-visioning, Nintendo managed to maximize its audience - despite deleting a lot of interesting elements. A story with mature content? Fuck that! Fusions? Too complicated! Talking to foes to recruit them? Screw that, just throw a freakin' ball at their noggin'! Hey, you know what would increase sales? Two or three different versions of what is essential the same game! And why would we bother hiring a respected artist like Kazuma Kaneko to create modern incarnations of mythological entities? Let's just electrocute this mouse and put that horse on fire!

I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed.

Disappointed that the series hasn't done anything to evolve in any way that matters (new mechanics that actually make the gameplay feel fresh? A good story? a renewed visual aesthetic?) And disappointed that even unto this day, the series that started this type of gameplay AND has evolved significantly over the years still doesn't get the praise it deserves. (Though, I suppose Persona 3 & 4 kind of shook things up...)

But in the end, it doesn't really matter, because Nintendo knows how to market something and GameFreak knows that Megaten has always had a great core mechanic.

 

[Joshimodo]

Hoho, it looks like another "Terminate421 defends Pokémon with his entirely unbiased viewpoint thread!


Anyway, on topic: Pokémon isn't dead, or dying. The designs have gotten less practical and aesthetic, and have abandoned simplicity.

However, the games, even the minor updates, are improving. Black and White 2 is going to be a step backwards for the regular storyline (Black and Whites was actually fresh), but gameplay-wise it's going to be as solid as the rest of them, with some good tweaks.


If you look at Nintendo's history, they're a company less interested in reinventing the wheel, but improving the wheel over time, and gradual change.

 

[Aurora Firestorm]

(snip) about Megaten

Okay, that's going a little far. MegaTen is about demons and recruiting spirits and monsters and such. It's also an entirely different atmospere. Pokemon's creator wanted a game that was like catching bugs in a jar when he was a kid. Pokemon are animals, not demons or spirits, and they're not supposed to be equal to humans or "convert-able." You catch them. They're animals. It's like catching a mouse in a cage. That's the whole point. There are fire horses and lightning mice because they're *supposed* to be mundane animals. It's not a ripoff; it's *supposed* to be childish, because the characters are supposed to be children playing with their caught fireflies in the woods.

Anyway, can we also axe Final Fantasy while we're killing Pokemon? Because seriously, Square has some great talent, and it's all going to horrible waste now. I never liked Final Fantasy. I wouldn't even mind it existing if it didn't suck up millions of dollars that could be going to more creative and unique games, or at least *different* ones. Hell, the only reason I bought Nier (and it was amazing, I just didn't realize it would be) was because OMG Squeenix published something that wasn't Final Fantasy, I should reward them like I give a puppy a treat!

I don't like the newer designs of the Pokemon. The legendaries look more like Digimon (let's take a creature framework and make it look mechanical) rather than like animals (Mewtwo, Mew, the birds, etc). And they even have Pokemon God. Seriously?

I do like the storyline changes. I like how they're trying to make a real story here. I also like, *to some extent*, how there are some neat complications like breeding and such. What I don't like is how *over*complicated it's becoming. Pokemon is going the way of Magic The Gathering, putting a huge wall of MUST KNOW ALL THE RULES LAWYERING between "decent" players and "good" players. That's really why I never was that great at Magic, and I don't want my awesome childhood franchise to go all elitist like Magic did in that department. Stop making us memorize all the scads of numbers. I just want to battle.

Also, bullshit about holding Pokemon back so that only people who go to certain stores or events can get them. What is this Zoroark and Zorua crap? Mew wasn't even a real Pokemon; it was a myth at the time, a Shiny Special Extra you could get that wasn't even on the normal numbered list. It was the stuff of legends. 99.N% of people needed a Gameshark to get it, not because it was held back, but because it "wasn't meant to be" but was anyway. Zorua and Zoroark are just holes in the Pokedex that laugh at you.

I think we need the Omni-Game, one giant 500-pokemon game, and then we need to take the series in a drastically new direction or end it. But, sadly, I think Nintendo has formally stated that this Omni-Game will never exist.

Oh well.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Yeah the day Nintendo let Pokemon franchise go will be the day that Square Enix let Final Fantasy go. Seeing how both franchises are still popular to this day, it's not going to happen any time soon.
Sure FF is different from each games but the core mechanics and cameo like Chocobo will always remain the same.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Why? It's barely even scratched the surface of it's potential.

It's been a handheld game for well over ten years. Hasn't even touched modern consoles yet.

Not to mention the buckage they could make with putting on the iPhone?

 

[karloss01]

In my honest opinion, Nintendo should suck it up and release a Pokemon MMORPG already, either on the PC or the WiiU (though not sure if it could handle it).

One time purchase then its free to play has all the Pokemon and regions currently available and allows the user to customise his/her avatar (the trainer) and also choose which region to start in (which will effect what Pokemon will be available to them).

- The game will play like the handheld ones except there will be thousands of other players interacting with the game at once.

- Art direction would lean to the cel-shaded style of artwork found in the manuals and on the covers, as realistic trainer with cartoony Pokemon would look silly.

- Trainer Avatar will also be able to take professions to give them access to unique items to that profession. For example a Pokemon nutritionist will allow the player to craft consumables which he/she can either use or sell to other trainers while a Poke Trainer (Grass) is able to level up Pokemon with Grass-type as their primary type faster then others (sort of like specialising in a particular attribute).

- The player may have multiple characters if he/she wishes.

- The legendaries will be unobtainable bosses of dungeons whose levels will exceed 100 so that players can form parties and fight these bosses with multiple Pokemon at once.

- Gyms will also be dungeons that players can join up and get doubles badges along with solo badges. People will be able to form and run gyms (game?s version of clans/guilds) if they wish to that act within the coliseums around the world, and earn in-game credit should it be successful. The Gym Leader can set limits to their gym including Max Level, amount of Pokemon allowed, Type of Pokemon the gym uses etc.

- Microtransactions could be implemented with clothing packs not only for the trainer avatar but their Pokemon as well (because you know kids will want to give their Pokemon pretty dresses or sun glasses)

- While NPCs will still challenge automatically the player can decline them, and players can challenge each other as well.

- global events could occur like Team Rocket/Galactic/whatever taking over a building/cave/town/city etc turning it into a dungeon or and uncommon/rare Pokemon becoming more common in a particular area due to weather patterns/some cosmic activity etc. (should of said this but dungeons will be instances separate from the game world and people outside of the player?s party)

- it could also have some sort of link to the handhelds that gives justification to purchase both the MMO and future handheld titles. Maybe something similar to the pokewalker.

- Finally when a new handheld comes out they can release an expansion with the new Pokemon in.

 

[GamemasterAnthony]

Pokemon gets better with each passing game. Anyone who tells you how "great gen 1 was" or how pokemon is always going down hill, show them this chart.

I could probably add some more to that list...including the fact you only got a finite income throughout the game, the imbalance between the types from how powerful the Psychics were to all the repeats of certain type combos, and the instances where the GAME cheated.

Like many others have said, the series isn't going away anytime soon and with all the new innovations coming out for it it's just getting better with age. So, OTC? Quit your damn whining, all you're doing is making the rest of the fans look bad.

And yes...Nintendo needs to release a Pokémon MMO soon. Even with data compression, eventually the game will become too big for handhelds.

 

[Lukirre]

-snip-
My copy of pokemon silver and indeed my gameboy colour has been broken since 2004. That disassembles at least two third of your argument. I bought soulsilver because there was no other method of playing it. I'll take away my complaints about black and white one to essentially move my main point of: Black and white 2 are re-releases of Black and white 1. Not in the way that yellow crystal emerald etc were, because they at least served some function, to get whatever the regions third legendary pokemon was easier. Unova is not doing this in 2. Therefore black and white 2 is a con.

As per the first claim, it's cool man, I get it. Math is not my strongest subject either, so I can relate to this. It wasn't quote two thirds of what I said, but I'm sure it was...close? I guess?

Visual Boy Advance + Pokemon Silver, free method of playing your favourite game.

Also, all you really need to do is read an article about B2/W2 to see that there's loads being added to the game. Though I suppose it's simply easier to hate on something.

 

[AuronFtw]

Gen 5 has pokemon modeled after trashbags leaking shit and ice cream cones. It's obvious they're out of ideas. The last best thing they could do is make a huge, immersive MMO, but nintendo fucking blows at making new games/using new ideas, so they'll probably just keep cranking out the same old bullshit.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

Nintendo has discovered what is essentially crack for 5th graders. Why would they stop making it?

How is it that it stays appealing to the 5th graders even as time passes though? Do new 5th graders get on board, or do the 5th graders from R/B days still play it? The latter has not been the case in my experience, I just wonder how it still has appeal and exposure to young audiences in this constantly changing atmosphere.


On topic: Pokemon is strong (or weak, depending on your perspective) in that the games are essentially mirror images. You can take the very first game, swap out some proper nouns, and you've got any of the iterations, along with some minor graphics tweaks.

I like that aspect a lot. I was already too old for Pokemon when I played Red/Blue, and I knew it, but the game design was so solid I couldn't put it down. Sequels I may or may not have picked up, I lose track. If I have a big trip or something coming up it's a fair bet the most recent pokemon game will kill plenty of time; while being a familiar scenario.

My only real gripe with the series is this inclination to make all the best pokemon difficult to get outside the game. In the first one you could get Mewtwo, the legendary birds, and apparently Mew with some glitch. In the recent games the best pokemon are only available through promotional events, 1 time deals. How do you even get to one of those? It'd be like making Ultima Weapon in FF7 or the BFG in Doom something you could only get at a promotional event -- that's a dick move in my book.

 

[DubiousJackson]

I think that theres a few poorly designed pokemon in B & W, but theres been bad designs in all of them, not just these two! Although I will admit there are a few more I dislike in this. If I'm honest it wasn't so much the designs I didnt't like, more the names of them!

Also just to add on S/G/C were my favourite set of games, purely because they made Scyther (my favourite pokemon) even more awesome! SCIZOR!!!!!!!!

 

[DarkRyter]

The least creative pokemon game with the worst designed pokemon and least innovation gets direct sequalage.

You are wrong because I disagree with you on this point entirely.

 

[Brotherofwill]

I haven't played the new Pokemon games. For all I know they could be very good and bring fresh ideas to the genre but I still don't feel like playing them. The Pokemon make the game for me. Usually when a new game is announced I look at the list of Pokemon and decide if I want to catch them and the last 2 generations just didn't spark my interest. I won't spend hours fighting with critters that I just hate to look at. Made a thread about it some long time ago when Black and White was first announced. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.198149-The-Pokemon-design-Guide-Nintendo-youre-doing-it-wrong?page=1

Sounds like you have a TRAGIC variation of Star-Wars-Fan-Itis.

That's a terrible comparison. The new Star Wars titles have nothing and I mean nothing that would get them even close to what the first 3 did. They just aren't good movies, if you look at them from a Star Wars point of view or from as a normal movies. They don't deliver.

 

[Yechezkel]

I almost replied to this thread with a long-winded message about how wrong the first post is. As I was typing it, though, I got the urge to play Black version some more. So I'm going to go do that instead.

Deal with it.