Pokemon Sun and Moon Aren't good Pokemon games.

[kilenem]

That wasn't my point. After beating the Pokemon league you do not get a chance to save. So if you turn off you game because you've accidentally killed the legendary pokemon you resume to where you were before beating the pokemon league champion. Although I have been corrected that you get to fight this pokemon again.

I mean.. So what? It just adds an extra layer of challenge to capturing it. In what world is this a bad thing?

What I mean by cutscene you walk to someone who is Blocking your way and it does a small cut scene to tell you that you can't go that way. With the exception of this one all of the pokemon games open world. When you got a HM you could go back to previous part of a game and explore a cave, go to a different island. This what I mean by it being Linear. It felt like the main quest wasn't the only thing you could do.

There's literally nothing other than an aesthetical difference between a rock and an NPC.

Rock Smash, Surf and Strength are still in the game, you realize. You're literally just ignoring them because they don't support your fictional narrative.

For example, when you get Rock Smash (Tauros), you're able to find Ten Carat Hill behind Kukui's lab, where you can find a bunch of items, some Pokemon a bit earlier, and is the only place to find Rockruff. It's completely optional and the story never brings you here. There're many locations like it in Sun and Moon.

Surf is such a O.P move though, I felt like if the HM's didn't suck and were stronger people would hate them less.

1. Muddy Water is objectively better.
2. The strength of HMs isn't the problem. Being forced to have a water type who can never unlearn 2-3 arbitrary moves on your party is the problem.
3. Surf is still in the game.

That is not a new layer of a challenge when catching a pokemon can be as random as Pokemon not going into the pokemon if its frozen with 1 HP with a ultra ball or as easy as trowing a pokeball when its HP is in the orange and catching. Plus when most people face a legendary they have certain pokemon that weaken them and not kill them. If you're coming out of the Elite four that's probably not how your team is setup. Most definitely how mines was setup.

Its not just aesthetics when someone is blocking your path verses a boulder. If you see a boulder and don't have strength, or rock smash you know to go the other way. Also reading the caption box to tell you that need a pokemon with a certain type of move is way quicker then the game loading a small cut scene when someone's blocking your path to tell you to go the other way.

My point wasn't that HM's aren't in the game I was pointing out that surf is pretty awesome attack. Every water pokemon can learn surf unlike Muddy water, and it has more PP which could be a mute point because Pokepalgo lets you grow berries so much easier then previous games and you would just have to grow the berry that replace the pp.

 

[kilenem]

That is not a new layer of a challenge when catching a pokemon can be as random as Pokemon not going into the pokemon if its frozen with 1 HP with a ultra ball or as easy as trowing a pokeball when its HP is in the orange and catching. Plus when most people face a legendary they have certain pokemon that weaken them and not kill them. If you're coming out of the Elite four that's probably not how your team is setup. Most definitely how mines was setup.

Its not just aesthetics when someone is blocking your path verses a boulder. If you see a boulder and don't have strength, or rock smash you know to go the other way. Also reading the caption box to tell you that need a pokemon with a certain type of move is way quicker then the game loading a small cut scene when someone's blocking your path to tell you to go the other way.

My point wasn't that HM's aren't in the game I was pointing out that surf is pretty awesome attack. Every water pokemon can learn surf unlike Muddy water, and it has more PP which could be a mute point because Pokepalgo lets you grow berries so much easier then previous games and you would just have to grow the berry that replace the pp.

That's the definition of 'extra layer of challenge'. It wouldn't be a challenge if you always won. But it's pretty moot if you're actually strategic when catching. Quick Balls, Dusk Balls, Net Balls etc make it stupidly easy to catch any Pokemon.

And HM obstacles are entirely an aesthetical difference. The 2 second 'cutscene' is such a minor point, it's unreal. But as I said, HM obstacles are still in the game. And there are more optional areas than ever before. You're choosing to ignore them.

And I pointed out that the strength of the HM isn't the problem. Being REQUIRED to have an attack on your party is the issue.

Again if you are not ready to go and catch a legendary why would you have the proper things to catch a legendary like quick balls, dusk balls and net balls etc. Don't tell me you are always suppose to have those because it just makes the game more tedious.

It isn't about aesthetics and I just explained to you why you seeing a rock that you cant move informs you that you can't go that way, nothing about someone in the way of your path does that because some times you have to ask them move or they have to give you something. The small cut scene wouldn't be such a issue if this game didn't feel so slow. Complaining about a pokemon's game design is Aesthetics is like saying some of gen 1's sprite art work isn't good.

 

[kilenem]

Again if you are not ready to go and catch a legendary why would you have the proper things to catch a legendary like quick balls, dusk balls and net balls etc. Don't tell me you are always suppose to have those because it just makes the game more tedious.

It isn't about aesthetics and I just explained to you why you seeing a rock that you cant move informs you that you can't go that way, nothing about someone in the way of your path does that because some times you have to ask them move or they have to give you something. The small cut scene wouldn't be such a issue if this game didn't feel so slow. Complaining about a pokemon's game design is Aesthetics is like saying some of gen 1's sprite art work isn't good.

You use those on regular Pokemon too.. They're not specifically for legendaries.

You're missing the point. A rock and a person who're both fulfilling an identical function don't have any mechanical difference. They're purely aesthetically different.

But, as I've stated repeatedly. All of the HMs are still there, identical to older games. You're literally just ignoring them to push some fictional narrative.

Yes pokemon balls are used to catch regular pokemon, it usually doesn't take 30 like pokeballs to catch one regular pokemon nor do you have to worry about that pokemon knocking its self out from using struggle, most of the time.

Yes a stone does have a function, it tells you that path is blocked off, it provides information. Again does a person in the way of a path tell you anything until you talk to them.

That is not a new layer of a challenge when catching a pokemon can be as random as Pokemon not going into the pokemon if its frozen with 1 HP with a ultra ball or as easy as trowing a pokeball when its HP is in the orange and catching. Plus when most people face a legendary they have certain pokemon that weaken them and not kill them. If you're coming out of the Elite four that's probably not how your team is setup. Most definitely how mines was setup.

Its not just aesthetics when someone is blocking your path verses a boulder. If you see a boulder and don't have strength, or rock smash you know to go the other way. Also reading the caption box to tell you that need a pokemon with a certain type of move is way quicker then the game loading a small cut scene when someone's blocking your path to tell you to go the other way.

My point wasn't that HM's aren't in the game I was pointing out that surf is pretty awesome attack. Every water pokemon can learn surf unlike Muddy water, and it has more PP which could be a mute point because Pokepalgo lets you grow berries so much easier then previous games and you would just have to grow the berry that replace the pp.

That's the definition of 'extra layer of challenge'. It wouldn't be a challenge if you always won. But it's pretty moot if you're actually strategic when catching. Quick Balls, Dusk Balls, Net Balls etc make it stupidly easy to catch any Pokemon.

And HM obstacles are entirely an aesthetical difference. The 2 second 'cutscene' is such a minor point, it's unreal. But as I said, HM obstacles are still in the game. And there are more optional areas than ever before. You're choosing to ignore them.

And I pointed out that the strength of the HM isn't the problem. Being REQUIRED to have an attack on your party is the issue.

Again if you are not ready to go and catch a legendary why would you have the proper things to catch a legendary like quick balls, dusk balls and net balls etc. Don't tell me you are always suppose to have those because it just makes the game more tedious.

It isn't about aesthetics and I just explained to you why you seeing a rock that you cant move informs you that you can't go that way, nothing about someone in the way of your path does that because some times you have to ask them move or they have to give you something. The small cut scene wouldn't be such a issue if this game didn't feel so slow. Complaining about a pokemon's game design is Aesthetics is like saying some of gen 1's sprite art work isn't good.

Dude, it's the final legendary of the game. Just use the master ball.

Its not the final legendary and I already used my masterball.

 

[soren7550]

Humans can ride on a horses bareback and nude too. Yet we still have saddles and safety gear to help us ride horse more easily and safely, and it looks pretty god damn silly too.

I'd just like to point out that the only safty gear those jockeys are wearing are the helmets. Jockeys need to be as light as possible in order to not weigh down/encumber their steeds, which is why they're pretty much exclusively tiny skinny dudes.

The racing silks (the silly looking outfits) are kinda like old timey banners; they show who they're riding for (which in this case would be stables/companies/super rich dudes).

But enough about the sport of kings, back on topic, while I certainly have my problems with the game [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.944746-The-5-Best-Changes-Pokemon-Sun-and-Moon-Made#23853505], I wouldn't go so far as to say they're bad Pokemon games. They're perfectly fine, if flawed.

 

[totheendofsin]

Its not the final legendary and I already used my masterball.

On what? Barely anything is that hard to catch.

only thing I can think of before then someone might think using the masterball on is worth it is the title legendary, which is literally impossible not to catch (if you knock it out it puts you right back in front of it and won't let you leave without catching it)

 

[Joccaren]

Tapu Koko doesn't take 30 balls either.. He's really not that difficult to catch. If a Pokemon is on red health and asleep, then catching them in a single dusk ball is a near guarantee. I'm talking from experience catching literally all of the legendaries.. In the last few gens.

Under these exact circumstances I've spent 40 Dusk balls at night on Tapu Fini, because sometimes the RNG is a little *****. And it isn't the only time its happened either. Sometimes the game's RNG just absolutely hates you. I remember catching Mewtwo in... XY? Maybe? IDK, one of the recent ones. Went through over 80 balls of various types in those exact conditions.

Outside that, it kind of ignores that a lot of the time you're not going to have a Pokemon with Sleep on you when you're doing an Elite IV sweep. They're more the Pokemon you take with you to catch other pokemon, rather than your main battle set. That means its unlikely that you'd have a Pokemon with sleep at that point in time - guess I was just lucky I was trying to level up and evolve Slowpoke at that point.

But again, even if you somehow kill it. You just have to beat the champion or elite four again. It's a legendary. Making it difficult to catch through these hurdles is good game design.

The bad game design is in not letting you save before it. Its literally just part of a longass cutscene, when it wouldn't have been hard to have a 2 step gameplay moment where you get to save before fighting it. The good game design bit is them resetting after you knock them out, when you fight the Elite 4, but... I never saw that explained in game, ever. I had to run to the Internet and watch a bunch of random videos to learn that fact. That kind of nullifies the point when every game to date has not had this feature, and it isn't introduced in-game, where all players will see it.

And the roadblock NPCs are always standing next to huge literal roadblocks.

I wish. That Stoutland wanting to search for bits and bobs, and block my path the whole way, was just fucking stupid. I don't mind the occasional NPC blocking paths - they have always been there - but some of the ones in Sun/Moon were just... Stupid.

 

[Kaimax]

But again, even if you somehow kill it. You just have to beat the champion or elite four again. It's a legendary. Making it difficult to catch through these hurdles is good game design.

The bad game design is in not letting you save before it. Its literally just part of a longass cutscene, when it wouldn't have been hard to have a 2 step gameplay moment where you get to save before fighting it. The good game design bit is them resetting after you knock them out, when you fight the Elite 4, but... I never saw that explained in game, ever. I had to run to the Internet and watch a bunch of random videos to learn that fact. That kind of nullifies the point when every game to date has not had this feature, and it isn't introduced in-game, where all players will see it.

What most people don't know is, you can actually escape from the fight with Tapu Koko. I accidentally did this with my golisopod's emergency escape.

The downside you must suffer the fate of Lillie simply saying "oh you think you're not strong enough yet". Caught it right after without having to go through the Elite 4 again, by simply touching his totem stone.

 

[Joccaren]

-I find your claim of Mewtwo taking 80 balls on red health while asleep hard to believe.

Find it as hard to believe as you want. Sometimes the RNG just hates you. I spent 3 days looking in Y to find a damned Ditto, because the RNG would not throw me one in the one damned field they appear. I almost thought my game was bugged and gave up, and as I was leaving, one finally appeared.
I tried to get a Razor claw in Moon, comboing Jango-mos and Hakamo-os with a Butterfree to boost the chance of an item holding Pokemon. By default, it should have a 5% chance to appear. With Butterfree, a 20% chance. You can also run into Kommo-o, which I did twice in the combo, who has a 50% chance of holding the item. I went through 80 Pokemon, and found a Shiny that is something like a 1 in 4000 chance, before I found that item.
At the same time, the opposite has happened. Once, while just messing around with some friends while playing Fire Red, I threw a Pokeball at Mewtwo on the first turn of the fight. I caught him. I went fishing for Dehlmise without knowing how bubbling water worked in Sun/Moon. 1% chance to appear, was my third Pokemon.

The thing about random chance is, its random. Its not certain, and not deterministic. While a lot of results may lay within a reasonable range, there are also a lot that will occur with unbelievable results. It all depends on what the RNG throws up at that given moment in time. Sometimes its great, sometimes its horrible. Inconsistent experiences are kind of the goal with the system.

-Legendaries resetting after the Elite Four has been in the games since about gen 4. Granted, they've always neglected the information in every title. The cutscene between the Champion and the Tapu fight is optional. You can opt to beat the Elite Four again. It's a choice on which punishment you want to take for failing.

Christ, first I've heard of that. Given its taken me what... 4 Gens? to figure that out, I really don't blame anyone for not knowing, and it basically invalidates the fact that it exists to begin with. Game mechanics need to be explained, so that people can use them. Not hidden.

-And really? That singular scenario with the Stoutland? The odd scenarios have been in all other games, too. In Red you literally get blocked off by numerous guards complaining that they're thirsty.

It is one example, yes. And yeah, there have been some silly scenarios in other Pokemon games too. I haven't felt any as lazily done as Sun and Moon's though. In Red, there's a crowd of people blocking your path. Yeah, their reason for not moving is a bit silly, but they're an actual barrier at least. Stoutland? Doesn't block your path, just sits somewhere nearby, then when you try to walk past the chick is like "Sorry, all the items belong to me. F off", and you listen to her for some god forsaken reason. It doesn't even look like a barrier you can't walk past until the cutscene.

Sure, you're raising some valid complaints that stick to the Pokemon franchise as a whole. But they're not problems local to Sun/Moon.

I think the problem is that Sun and Moon haven't improved these problems, they've exacerbated the problems and made them worse. The linearity was always there, but it was never so poorly disguised as in Sun/Moon. Its always been a pretty on rails beginning, but never quite so restricted as in Sun and Moon. Legendaries have always had a chance to be a ***** to catch, but they don't throw you into a 10 minute long cutscene with a fight with that legendary in the middle - they always have you approach it, with a chance to save, even if there was a cutscene right beforehand.

Its kind of like a patch for a somewhat grindy MMORPG that doubles the XP cost and gold cost for everything. Sure, it was always grindy, but its taken it to a new level, and that's starting to get to people that weren't put off by the level things were at before. Sun and Moon have some cool ideas, but the execution of the rest of it is... Poor. Hell, one thing my partner pointed out; why is almost every new Pokemon only a <5% chance of appearing in any area, requiring you to grind for an hour before it appears to catch?
The game feels... Rushed. A lot of it is lacking thought and attention to detail, and it seems to rely on chance to slow you down more than content - which all the Pokemon games have to some extent, yes, but again - not to this level. And that's where a lot of people are taking issue; These complaints did exist in previous Pokemon games, but in a more limited way. They're getting worse, and that's not something a lot of people are ok with.

 

[iwinatlife]

I find it funny that it seems like you guys think that people as road blocks are new things to pokemon. Try to leave pallet? you get a person dragging you back with warnings about the grass. Try to just walk through viridian? Hangover grandpa in the way. Try to leave pewter before beating brock? A guy will put you through a cutscene of him dragging you to the gym.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

I find it funny that it seems like you guys think that people as road blocks are new things to pokemon. Try to leave pallet? you get a person dragging you back with warnings about the grass. Try to just walk through viridian? Hangover grandpa in the way. Try to leave pewter before beating brock? A guy will put you through a cutscene of him dragging you to the gym.

Is there a particular reason why the series needs to do this though? As long as they block off the Pokemon League and the story elements, I don't see why a player shouldn't be able to do the gyms in any order they choose. In Alola, you're restricted by island, so it would be even easier just to give the player full run of the map.

On Island 3, there's a police officer, when you try to pass him before going to route 10, he'll stop you and give you directions to route 10, but won't prevent you from entering the route he's on should you choose to do so. I think this is the best approach. It's a helpful point in the right direction in order to advance the story, but not a restriction to exploration.

They could also accomplish it the way old Final Fantasy games did. Where you have a wide range acceptable for exploration and if you move beyond that range (and you'll get a warning if you get close kupo), there's a giant monster that will murder you. That'd even be fun for Pokemon games because it would add flavor to the legendaries.

 

[EternallyBored]

I find it funny that it seems like you guys think that people as road blocks are new things to pokemon. Try to leave pallet? you get a person dragging you back with warnings about the grass. Try to just walk through viridian? Hangover grandpa in the way. Try to leave pewter before beating brock? A guy will put you through a cutscene of him dragging you to the gym.

Is there a particular reason why the series needs to do this though? As long as they block off the Pokemon League and the story elements, I don't see why a player shouldn't be able to do the gyms in any order they choose. In Alola, you're restricted by island, so it would be even easier just to give the player full run of the map.

On Island 3, there's a police officer, when you try to pass him before going to route 10, he'll stop you and give you directions to route 10, but won't prevent you from entering the route he's on should you choose to do so. I think this is the best approach. It's a helpful point in the right direction in order to advance the story, but not a restriction to exploration.

They could also accomplish it the way old Final Fantasy games did. Where you have a wide range acceptable for exploration and if you move beyond that range (and you'll get a warning if you get close kupo), there's a giant monster that will murder you. That'd even be fun for Pokemon games because it would add flavor to the legendaries.

It's because the main story of the games is the casual portion of the game designed for newcomers and young kids, they don't want kids going too far out of bounds as the main story is already brain dead easy as it is, letting you go catch higher tier Pok?mon or do the gyms/challenges out of order would require rebalancing the normal trainer and wild Pok?mon mechanics, as allowing more than limited optional pathing would demolish the already shaky balance of the early game. This is the company that took 6 generations to finally put an end to the stupid HM system that grossly limited you potential team combinations until really late in the game.

Also not sure where your Final Fantasy example comes from, I played all the old games and I don't remember being blocked from areas by some powerful boss monster, it was usually that the next town they wanted you to go through was the only way forward, or you were missing a boat, airship, or some other item to unlock the next area.

Now I think that might be worth it, with the change up to the normal story structure in sun and moon they could benefit from just biting the bullet and actually ramping up the mechanics and difficulty before you finish the 20 hour story that can usually be beaten without any skill or knowledge of the battle systems beyond basic type matchups and spamming the highest attack move over and again. We need to start encountering post game mechanics and difficulty before the actual main game is finished and every area has been explored.

Right now, there are a number of mechanics that would need serious rebalancing before you could offer a true freedom beyond just the occasional optional route or cave.

 

[Joccaren]

Sun and Moon don't make them worse though. Especially considering you're taking the extreme examples from Sun and Moon, and ignoring the rest. It invalidates your point when you have to do that. Hell, the Stoutland is essentially paying homage to the earlier games, where an artist blocks you from walking because he's tracing Pokemon footprints.

It is your opinion that Sun and Moon don't make it worse. It is mine, and others, that they definitely do. Give pretty much any issue with Pokemon in general and I'll tell you how Sun and Moon is worse than the previous games. The handful of things I feel its done better is allowing you to IV train rather than have to farm for the perfect IV pokemon, the gyms are a bit more interesting now, even if not by a ton, the story is the most detailed its been of any Pokemon to date, and the removal of the need for HM bots, even if I disagree with the method, are the improvements its made. Otherwise... OR/AS was better in pretty much every way, and was one game before it. And this isn't looking at many of the things that the series has done in the past that its ditched in newer iterations.

The Stoutland may be the most extreme example, yes. As I said, it is only one though. The fact that for 90% of the barriers its just "Yeah, you're not allowed through here as you haven't done the next part of the story yet", with a literal barrier there, and no attempt to even hide that that's what it is is... Shameful. While it makes some sense in-lore [Emphasis on the some], it is just incredibly lazy. Stoutland was a fucking joke. Its worse than "I'm painting Pokemon footprints". I mean, that makes some sense. Walking through will fuck up the footprints. "I'm looking for items, sorry, I don't want you finding any" is a fucking bullshit excuse. What if I want those items? What if I just walk through and don't look for items? What items am I missing out on because you're being an obnoxious ass? I mean, imagine this IRL; Someone asking you to stand to the side for a few minutes as they're doing a film shoot for TV, or someone blocking you off and asking you not to go down a street for 10 minutes because they saw $5 blow down there and they want to be the one to find it. Which would you be more pissed off at?
Self-referencing only goes so far as well. If there's an annoying/stupid part of your game, and you replicate it in a new one and call it a reference... That's not a good reference. The good references are things like the HM references, where people tell you that in their region you have to use HMs, but its really cool that in this one you don't. Great. Excellent. We get a reference to the old gens, and we get a better way of doing it. At the very least don't repeat the mistake, just make a joke about it. Repeating a mistake and excusing it as a 'reference' is just lazy.
This also ignores the fact that I think there was maybe 3 main story paths that were actually blocked off by requiring a HM to get through, while previous games had many. There were a handful of very short optional paths blocked off by HM related stuff, but almost all of them were just some person standing there saying something instead. The feeling of you overcoming challenges with your Pokemon is replaced by a feeling of been gated in, moreso than previously.

Sure, Sun and Moon didn't fix the issues, but they've had about 13 opportunities to fix them in previous generations. Why is 14 being picked out?

Because, as said, its the laziest gen and makes near everything worse. The railroading is the longest its been in any of the games thus far, and the least disguised, AND the most rail-roady too.
The Pokedex is woefully incomplete. You are literally able to acquire Pokemon that do not exist in the Pokedex, as only the 300 pokemon Alola Dex exists, a national dex - standard since Gen II - does not exist.
We were introduced to a ton of great features with OR/AS; Super-Training, easy online play and connectivity, Pokenav/finder, and other bits and bobs that made it incredibly easy to do many of the more... Chore oriented parts of the Pokemon franchise. Are they in the latest iteration? No. Instead, they've removed half the functionality, and made the half that remains impossibly more complicated to perform.
The new Pokemon of this gen almost exclusively have a <5% encounter rate. Most pokemon you'll run into are from the other gens, which artificially pads out the game big time by hiding the pokemon that you're all excited to see so that you'll almost never see them without excessive grinding.
It throws you into battles straight out of a long 10 minute cutscene, with no opportunity to save. They haven't done that before, and by god is that just absolutely terrible game design.
The map is near non-functional, with how impossible it is to now tell the difference between walkable terrain/routes, and just random bits of scenery.
Lets not get into the horror that is SOS battle grinding, or goddamn weather battles.
The map is 100% disjointed and not interconnected. Several areas are 'connected', without anything to connect them, and on the larger scale each of the islands is completely separated from each other and not able to be travelled to without a ferry/fly. Even the original Ruby/Sapphire didn't do that - you took a boat, but were completely able to just surf that route later in the game.
The new fishing mechanics are legitimately terrible. 1% appearance rates are a fucking joke, and having to walk back and forth between areas to raise it to a still abysmal 10% appearance rate is just... Pathetic.

The list of complaints can go on and on. Sun/Moon is one of the worse Pokemon games, and is quite frankly just embarrassing when compared to its direct forbear. This doesn't mean its a bad game in total. Its still enjoyable enough, but it is a bad Pokemon game. Its getting picked out because of that.

Sun/Moon aren't bad Pokemon games. They're literally just the exact same games we've been playing for 20 years. Chances are, those who aren't enjoying the new gen just don't want to face the reality that they provably don't really enjoy Pokemon anymore.

I wouldn't say I don't enjoy the new gen, but I do see the several flaws that it has, and have 100%ed it, as much as any Pokemon game can be, in less time than I've spent in any other Pokemon game to do so - and I have no drive to keep playing, unlike the other Pokemon games.

I have also just replayed through Fire Red since I was having nostalgia, and have a direct comparison between the two, as well as having just finish OR/AS. My partner has also just done a complete run through of White, White 2, Y, AS and then Sun, and agrees with the complaints that I've made. So, no. This isn't just getting tired of Pokemon. I have more drive to play the other Pokemon games that are more samey and closer to the standard Pokemon formula than I do this new one, because it takes away a lot of what was enjoyable from the previous Pokemon games, and doesn't really replace it with much of substance. Its great for cutscenes, but that's about it.
Hell, I have more drive to replay Sinnoh than to replay this, and that was where I did start getting bored of Pokemon after spending years playing and replaying the previous gens [So much so that I skipped Black and Black 2, played Y when it came out as it looked like something different, went back and then played Black/Black 2 and had my abundance of complaints about those games too].

Again, Sun and Moon are bad Pokemon games. They're not bad games by themselves, but they don't deliver on many of the franchises core themes, largely as a result of being lazier than the other games in how they handled... everything. Its short on content, short on pokemon, and makes a lot of its players short on patience with many of its just stupid new systems. Pokemon has always had problems. Its never had so many as in Sun and Moon though.