Pokemon Sun and Moon Aren't good Pokemon games.

[Yoshi178]

And for the guy saying that this gen is worse than 4

Yikes, Gen 4 is what I put the highest amount of hours into. Though I don't remember a number of things in that one... I'm curious about what made ya dislike it? Maybe I don't remember it being pure trash, I was in my mid-teens around that time

gen 4 was literally the most boring ass gen of them all.

and also that barry guy in the gen was an annoying piece of shit. just stfu and let me get on with the game you stupid asshole barry.

 

[kilenem]

Because, as said, its the laziest gen and makes near everything worse. The railroading is the longest its been in any of the games thus far, and the least disguised, AND the most rail-roady too.
The Pokedex is woefully incomplete. You are literally able to acquire Pokemon that do not exist in the Pokedex, as only the 300 pokemon Alola Dex exists, a national dex - standard since Gen II - does not exist.
We were introduced to a ton of great features with OR/AS; Super-Training, easy online play and connectivity, Pokenav/finder, and other bits and bobs that made it incredibly easy to do many of the more... Chore oriented parts of the Pokemon franchise. Are they in the latest iteration? No. Instead, they've removed half the functionality, and made the half that remains impossibly more complicated to perform.
The new Pokemon of this gen almost exclusively have a <5% encounter rate. Most pokemon you'll run into are from the other gens, which artificially pads out the game big time by hiding the pokemon that you're all excited to see so that you'll almost never see them without excessive grinding.
It throws you into battles straight out of a long 10 minute cutscene, with no opportunity to save. They haven't done that before, and by god is that just absolutely terrible game design.
The map is near non-functional, with how impossible it is to now tell the difference between walkable terrain/routes, and just random bits of scenery.
Lets not get into the horror that is SOS battle grinding, or goddamn weather battles.
The map is 100% disjointed and not interconnected. Several areas are 'connected', without anything to connect them, and on the larger scale each of the islands is completely separated from each other and not able to be travelled to without a ferry/fly. Even the original Ruby/Sapphire didn't do that - you took a boat, but were completely able to just surf that route later in the game.
The new fishing mechanics are legitimately terrible. 1% appearance rates are a fucking joke, and having to walk back and forth between areas to raise it to a still abysmal 10% appearance rate is just... Pathetic.

The list of complaints can go on and on. Sun/Moon is one of the worse Pokemon games, and is quite frankly just embarrassing when compared to its direct forbear. This doesn't mean its a bad game in total. Its still enjoyable enough, but it is a bad Pokemon game. Its getting picked out because of that.

I feel pretty vindicated reading this because there are some things wrong from a game design aspect that they got right in previous versions. The fact the bottom screen for the map like you say is useless.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I'm watching the Grumps play Sun and it seems unusually hand-holdy and kiddy-oriented even by Pokemon standards.

 

[bjj hero]

Again, it's a wild animal.

Just because people use it do to a thing doesn't mean that it was evolved with the intention to do that thing.

Horses werent created so we could ride them or so they could till our fields.

Cattle werent made for us to eat.

Sheep werent made for us to make clothes.

Dogs werent made to herd sheep.

And Lapras werent made to ferry people on their back.

But we make them do it anyway because why not? We can.

Those were terrible examples. 2000 years ago, none of the dog breeds you see today existed. From wolf like pye dogs, through selective breeding, each breed of dog was designed by breeders to do a specific job: Be cute, hunt rodents, herd sheep, guard homes...

Equally cows now produce far more milk and meat through selective breeding to produce food... horses were selectively bred to be fast, carry knights, pull ploughs. Race horses cannot survive in the wild.

Through breeding these animals were all "evolved" to do their selected job.

 

[bjj hero]

As a heads up, save before you fight as the Champion of the pokemon league. This is because after you become the champ, it doesn't save and you have to fight a legendary pokemon, that is a one time encounter.

The deepest circle of hell is reserved for save scummers and rage quitters...

I'd feel cheap doing that.

 

[bjj hero]

Yet race horses still aren't bred to have built-in saddles. Nor would a Lapras.

And selective breeding only goes so far.

In a fictional universe where rodents could power all of the gadgets in your home it is not that big a stretch. Ive not seen the pokemon but maybe selectively breeding the ones with a shell or horn deformity could get you a chair.

Look at some of the wierd and wonderful dogs we have compared to wolves. Selective breeding is a powerful tool that has shaped nearly every "natural" produce we consume. From orange carrots at one point didnt exist. Sunflower heads were smaller than a penny. There are thousands of examples demonstrating the power of selective breeding.

 

[Kaimax]

As a heads up, save before you fight as the Champion of the pokemon league. This is because after you become the champ, it doesn't save and you have to fight a legendary pokemon, that is a one time encounter.

The deepest circle of hell is reserved for save scummers and rage quitters...

I'd feel cheap doing that.

You can actually run from the battle and fight Tapu Koko later...my god, people don't read the posts.

 

[Joccaren]

See it's a huge wall of text which really only addresses one or two points in convoluted ways. Which honestly just makes me feel validated in my criticisms of your criticisms. They're so minor, and so nitpicky. When the criticisms are directed at so few, such small elements, it's really indicative that all of the key mechanics are tackled correctly.

Seriously. Go back and play some older gen games, and you'll notice very few differences. Aside from each new gen becoming slightly more convenient.

Minor nitpicks to you, major issues to a lot of people in this thread, and in general. Your own personal opinion is not the gospel of the world. While maybe you just chuck it on for 20 minutes a day and stop playing happily upon finishing the story, not caring about any of the deeper or more advanced features of the series - many do, and the game has significantly hindered these aspects, as well as its core themes, in the latest generation. Maybe you don't mind. Cool. That's your opinion. Others do.

And apparently you missed the part where I said I have replayed literally every game from Fire Red onwards to the Sun/Moon gen, back to the GBA era, and that this Gen is the worst. By far. Minor things to you. Major things to me, and many others. The game is kind of fun on its own, but as a Pokemon game, it fails on a lot of core criteria. It is annoying, and a pain to play. If you want to treat it as an ez mode basic JRPG, fine. Others treat it differently, as it was designed to be different.

As for things only getting more convenient...
I wouldn't entirely agree with that. Sinnoh had a fair few inconvenient things still, despite being amazingly bland. Black/White were just... Bad IMO. Balance wise sure, their world design was pathetic though. It was actually painful to move around through various areas thanks to the shitty curvature, and so much of it was focused on making everything be a set piece to simply look cool, rather than be playable and enjoyable. X and Y were... Better, but not a ton. While many things were simpler, world design was still an issue. At least it was possible to navigate in 3D without the painful shit. OR/AS did improve things, being the likely best Pokemon game made... And then Sun/Moon removed all those steps forward, made everything less convenient, and brought forth many issues of its own. Its been far from a steady march forward.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I'm watching the Grumps play Sun and it seems unusually hand-holdy and kiddy-oriented even by Pokemon standards.

As of your time of writing, they had literally only played for about 20 minutes.

39 minutes 28 seconds.

And they progress fucking slowly while they talk.

2 minutes on character creation. The rest has been walking from one cutscene to another.

And your only frame of reference are the Gameboy Colour games..

Yes, and in 40 minutes I had the Pewter Gym Badge, my starter had evolved and I was halfway through Mt. Moon with 6 mons in my pocket and then some in the bank. Now apparently the first 40 minutes of a normal Pokemon game have some overly enthusiastic douche treat you like you're watching Barney the Dinosaur while working in a JRPG You're The One storyline, before you even pick a starter or fight anybody.

Yeah... Not a very valuable opinion.

Thank you for giving my opinion some value. I don't give yours any. You're a staple of the Nintendo thread, automatically being contrarian to anybody who has so much as a criticism against the game. No offense meant, it's your thing.

That's like judging an entire movie based on its TV ad.

No, it's what it says on the tin: having a first impression 40 minutes into a game, having played other games in the franchise before.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I'm watching the Grumps play Sun and it seems unusually hand-holdy and kiddy-oriented even by Pokemon standards.

Gamegrumps are terrible. They're shit at games, and have way too short episodes.

Their gaming prowess or the length of the episodes doesn't change the fact that in 40 minutes all they've done is walk from one dumb cutscene to another with nary gameplay in between.

Hardly a representative sample of the game.

Based on the other mon games I've played, I beg to differ.

You wouldnt judge all of Star Wars: A New Hope based on half of the opening text crawl, would you?

I wouldn't, because the opening crawl doesn't treat me like an idiot nor does it overstay its welcome.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

In a fictional universe where rodents could power all of the gadgets in your home it is not that big a stretch. Ive not seen the pokemon but maybe selectively breeding the ones with a shell or horn deformity could get you a chair.

Look at some of the wierd and wonderful dogs we have compared to wolves. Selective breeding is a powerful tool that has shaped nearly every "natural" produce we consume. From orange carrots at one point didnt exist. Sunflower heads were smaller than a penny. There are thousands of examples demonstrating the power of selective breeding.

Ignoring how this is a children's game..

Pokemon are wild, not selectively bred.

It's a Lapras that is used by a group to provide travel to residents of the area.

Lapras is rare as all crap in the wild. Most are given to you as gifts.

The odds of them NOT breeding their Lapras' are pretty frigging insignificant. These ones most likely WERE selectively bred in order to better do the job.