[POLITICS] Two Mass Shootings in 15 Hours, and O'Rourke on Trump

[Casual Shinji]

These gun advocates are right about one thing; Guns don't kill people, people kill people. And those people are the NRA allowing such easy access to guns.

 

[Baffle]

The problem with all the gun control arguments is that it's pretty much always 'I don't want that guy to have a gun, but I should be allowed to keep mine.' Just get rid of the guns. It's headache-inducingly obvious that you shouldn't have them.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Another thing with guns is that everyone thinks "I'm a responsible gun owner, it's those other people who are irresponsible with their guns that are causing all those accidental shootings", literally everyone thinks that, even the people who get shot by their toddlers and dogs. (yes, there was a story of a dog jumping onto a rifle and shooting an athlete's leg off, somehow)

Not everyone is responsible, and far too many people are not capable of judging whether someone is responsible or not yet still own guns and wield them almost as prominently as they wield their ignorance.

Closing down 8chan is like cutting down the tree with the wasp nest on it and thinking there's not gonna be any more wasps. It was prolly a sucky tree, sure, but that's not gonna address your wasp problem.


The attack on videogames is a usual deflection of the NRA, so that doesn't surprise me. It's the same politicians who are suck in the 90s in their politics that use those attacks, they're almost cliche at this point. They're not a serious threat.

Ah, but the wasps will go somewhere else. Gab has the same issue but takes no responsibility for when one of its clients shoots people. Sure, they might not be encouraging any of these maniacs, but they aren't condemning them, especially before it happens. I can imagine that most people don't want their legacy to be encouraging shootings, even unintentionally. These shooters love have their voices heard. It's why they shoot people. The MSM and places like Gab are just fuel to their personal martyrdom. It kinda reminds me of President Garfield's assassin. 'I am the Stalwart of the Stalwarts.'

Also, homes are built for breeding. Sure, destroying the nest might not stop the current wasps but it's going to stop them breeding for a while. Wasps only breed if they are given a chance to make a home again. It is interesting that the creator of 8chan, who created it based on concerns of Freedom of Speech, now realises that Freedom of Speech is dangerous. He probably realised that he'd be first in line for the gas chambers.

It's funny how the NRA blames video games. You know, becuase both are about handling weapons, whether IRL or virtual.. It's like their shooting themselves in the foot. I also find it funny that NRA keeps not coming up with their own solutions to the problem and just worries about those libtards taking their guns away

That's my point, they will go somewhere else, and you can't cut down the entire forest cause there's wasps in a couple trees to ensure they have nowhere to go cause then we won't have any apples or wood or oxygen.

Freedom of speech is not dangerous, or if you want to describe some of it's side-effects as such, it still is the least dangerous situation we can have, like how democracy is the worst form of government except for all the other ones.

When you ban people, they don't stop to self-reflect and change their minds. They go further underground and become even more radicalized. You have to address the core issue why there are such people to begin with, not try to deal with the symptoms.

If you havent noticed, discussing points with people radicalizes them too. In fact, from what I've heard from ex-Alt righters and ex-Incels, the only thing that change is someone getting shot by another RW or Incel and someone holding that incident up to their face and saying, 'this is where you are going.' There is no argument, shaming is the correct course. In other words, the best way to deradicalize people is for more people to get shot.

That sounds too specific and anecdotal, it's not something you can apply society-wide.

 

[Agema]

That's my point, they will go somewhere else, and you can't cut down the entire forest cause there's wasps in a couple trees to ensure they have nowhere to go cause then we won't have any apples or wood or oxygen.

If you make accessing hate speech harder, potentially the increased barriers will make fewer people bother making the effort. It won't stop the determined, but it might reduce the amount of casual access. There's a concern that if things go "underground" they'll be harder to monitor, but I'm not sure that's convincing. If the general public are going to get to a site on the Dark Web to sup from the cup of the far right, it necessarily means anyone also can get there to keep an eye on them.

Freedom of speech is not dangerous, or if you want to describe some of it's side-effects as such, it still is the least dangerous situation we can have, like how democracy is the worst form of government except for all the other ones.

Freedom of speech absolutely can be dangerous, and aspects of speech are banned routinely by even the most permissive countries (e.g. incitement to violence). Let me put it to you this way: do you think places like Gab and 8chan fancy hosting Islamic extremists, who occasionally egg each other on to murder some infidels, or that it would be tolerated by the wider society they operate in? I bet you not. But if we were to be consistent, we should be as tolerant of them as we are of alt-right/incel/etcs. who fancy their own occasionally bloodbaths.

Let's also note there is also a big difference between "freedom of speech" and "obligation for private entities to provide an outlet for speech on their property".

 

[Saelune]

Snip

You haven't responded.

Oh blow it out your ass, Donald.

Reconsidering your support of him?

 

[Saelune]

Closing down 8chan is like cutting down the tree with the wasp nest on it and thinking there's not gonna be any more wasps. It was prolly a sucky tree, sure, but that's not gonna address your wasp problem.


The attack on videogames is a usual deflection of the NRA (and the politicians they bribe), so that doesn't surprise me. It's the same politicians who are suck in the 90s in their politics that use those attacks, they're almost cliche at this point. They're not a serious threat.

Not a serious threat? They run the government right now. Donald Trump is president. Not a threat?!

Know who else is 'not a threat'? The Ohio shooter. Look how that turned out.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Closing down 8chan is like cutting down the tree with the wasp nest on it and thinking there's not gonna be any more wasps. It was prolly a sucky tree, sure, but that's not gonna address your wasp problem.


The attack on videogames is a usual deflection of the NRA (and the politicians they bribe), so that doesn't surprise me. It's the same politicians who are suck in the 90s in their politics that use those attacks, they're almost cliche at this point. They're not a serious threat.

Not a serious threat? They run the government right now. Donald Trump is president. Not a threat?!

Know who else is 'not a threat'? The Ohio shooter. Look how that turned out.

Indeed. He was dropped in 30 seconds and still killed a bunch of people. So much for the "good guy with a gun" theory...

 

[CaitSeith]

You cut down 8chan, then there's 4chan, you cut down 4chan, then you would need to police Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, Patreon and youtube, and then they will use TOR to go into the dark web.

Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, Patreon and youtube are already policed by their own mods and terms of service.

In related news, for wanting to help 8chan, The Daily Stormer is down too. I have no words, except for Schadenfreude.

 

[Scarytown_v1legacy]

So we've come full circle back to the Columbine massacre and right-wing politicians blaming video games for mass shooting.

I'm so tired that we never learn a god damn thing from our mistakes.

 

[Leg End]

In related news, for wanting to help 8chan, The Daily Stormer is down too. I have no words, except for Schadenfreude.

Not quite how that went down. They found a new protection provider which was the same that The Daily Stormer uses, but the company leasing infrastructure to that provider caught wind of it and immediately discontinued the agreement, thus crippling the provider.

You haven't responded.

Don't want to. We've been over this before.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

So we've come full circle back to the Columbine massacre and right-wing politicians blaming video games for mass shooting.

I'm so tired that we never learn a god damn thing from our mistakes.

Pretty much this. The worst part of it is that things will never change, probably because people refuse to learn...

 

[Avnger]

In related news, for wanting to help 8chan, The Daily Stormer is down too. I have no words, except for Schadenfreude.

Not quite how that went down. They found a new protection provider which was the same that The Daily Stormer uses, but the company leasing infrastructure to that provider caught wind of it and immediately discontinued the agreement, thus crippling the provider.

So even better. Sounds like 3 birds with 1 stone.

 

[Leg End]

So even better. Sounds like 3 birds with 1 stone.

Well, I certainly don't consider the provider getting axed as better, but it seems like they're handling their shit as well. All this has done has shown who is willing to do what, and Cloudflare likely setting their own precedent while the POTUS is actively calling for regulating speech across the board. BitMitigate has already posted on Twitter as returning to normal in one way or another, and both sites will likely be back up with the provider's protection.

 

[Marik2]

8channers are probably going to flood 4chan or go to decentralized social media platforms.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

That's my point, they will go somewhere else, and you can't cut down the entire forest cause there's wasps in a couple trees to ensure they have nowhere to go cause then we won't have any apples or wood or oxygen.

If you make accessing hate speech harder, potentially the increased barriers will make fewer people bother making the effort. It won't stop the determined, but it might reduce the amount of casual access. There's a concern that if things go "underground" they'll be harder to monitor, but I'm not sure that's convincing. If the general public are going to get to a site on the Dark Web to sup from the cup of the far right, it necessarily means anyone also can get there to keep an eye on them.

If we are to agree with the sentiment expressed by some that our society is somehow racist/supremacist on a fundamental level in its dna and needs to be cured, one need not be radicalized through any particular method. Some people will just be that through one way or another by virtue of just living in the society.

Remember, what the issue is is the few super crazy ones, those are the ones who actually go out and kill people. Whether there's a shameful and hidden tacit approval in the hearts of many others, while pretty sad for our species, is not the core problem we're facing. As long as none of them go out and shoot people, they can think anything they want.

Freedom of speech absolutely can be dangerous, and aspects of speech are banned routinely by even the most permissive countries (e.g. incitement to violence). Let me put it to you this way: do you think places like Gab and 8chan fancy hosting Islamic extremists, who occasionally egg each other on to murder some infidels, or that it would be tolerated by the wider society they operate in? I bet you not. But if we were to be consistent, we should be as tolerant of them as we are of alt-right/incel/etcs. who fancy their own occasionally bloodbaths.

Let's also note there is also a big difference between "freedom of speech" and "obligation for private entities to provide an outlet for speech on their property".

I'm fairly certain twitter was used by Isis for a period for just the thing you describe and was tolerated because Muslims are oppressed in the US, so you have already lost the bet before I had the chance to accept it XD.

But yeah, I'm not saying twitter shouldn't be able to ban people, I'm saying that banning people isn't fixing anything, you're just cutting down the tree, the wasps are just gonna be more agitated and more likely to sting people when their nest is crushed than if they just stay there.

Closing down 8chan is like cutting down the tree with the wasp nest on it and thinking there's not gonna be any more wasps. It was prolly a sucky tree, sure, but that's not gonna address your wasp problem.


The attack on videogames is a usual deflection of the NRA (and the politicians they bribe), so that doesn't surprise me. It's the same politicians who are suck in the 90s in their politics that use those attacks, they're almost cliche at this point. They're not a serious threat.

Not a serious threat? They run the government right now. Donald Trump is president. Not a threat?!

Know who else is 'not a threat'? The Ohio shooter. Look how that turned out.

You completely missed what I was referring to there. The threat was that of the government taking action to curtail videogame violence.

Closing down 8chan is like cutting down the tree with the wasp nest on it and thinking there's not gonna be any more wasps. It was prolly a sucky tree, sure, but that's not gonna address your wasp problem.


The attack on videogames is a usual deflection of the NRA (and the politicians they bribe), so that doesn't surprise me. It's the same politicians who are suck in the 90s in their politics that use those attacks, they're almost cliche at this point. They're not a serious threat.

Not a serious threat? They run the government right now. Donald Trump is president. Not a threat?!

Know who else is 'not a threat'? The Ohio shooter. Look how that turned out.

Indeed. He was dropped in 30 seconds and still killed a bunch of people. So much for the "good guy with a gun" theory...

He wasn't dropped by a good guy either, cops got to him. There were armed people in the texas mall but they all ran, nobody stood up to that shooter.

This whole thing is people's immature Rambo fantasies. We should ban 80s action movies!

 

[Avnger]

I'm fairly certain twitter was used by Isis for a period for just the thing you describe and was tolerated because Muslims are oppressed in the US, so you have already lost the bet before I had the chance to accept it XD.

Christ, you're so uninformed that if it wasn't terrifying it'd be hilarious.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/05/twitter-deletes-isis-accounts-terrorism-online

edit: InB4 "It was just a joke bro"

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I'm fairly certain twitter was used by Isis for a period for just the thing you describe and was tolerated because Muslims are oppressed in the US, so you have already lost the bet before I had the chance to accept it XD.

Christ, you're so uninformed that if it wasn't terrifying it'd be hilarious.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/05/twitter-deletes-isis-accounts-terrorism-online

edit: InB4 "It was just a joke bro"

I know they deleted them but that was after they had let them be up for way longer than they would have let these white supremacists and only after a ton of outrage. And they were literally organizing through twitter for a spell. This is way worse than anything done on gab.

 

[Trunkage]

8channers are probably going to flood 4chan or go to decentralized social media platforms.

Probably, it seems to be their MO. Invade and take over places. Listening to old Antifa people from the 70s and 80s, the only successful way to get them not to invade is to fight them off. I don't know how you do that online, either.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Just get rid of the guns. It's headache-inducingly obvious that you shouldn't have them.

You would have an easier time getting the French to give up wine or the Saudis to give up Islam than you would have getting the Americans to give up firearms.

"Just get rid of the guns". There's over 300,000,000 of them in circulation, most of which have no registration, and many of which are held by people who would rather die than give up firearms.

 

[Saelune]

You haven't responded.

Don't want to. We've been over this before.

I just want it to be crystal clear where your position is on all of this, where your line of 'I will still vote for him' is.