Poll: A Certain Double Standard

[mechashiva77]

the true meaning of life". Among a certain sub-set of men they may be adored, but not society as a whole.

True.

might want to expand on that post a little, wouldnt want to suffer mod wrath unwantingly for low content.

Thanks, never slipped up on that until now o__o

 

[Darken12]

Gender roles are societal constructs. Nothing more, nothing less. Society, in times before we had the accumulated lore we currently enjoy, thought that those gender roles were biological (and therefore immutable). They aren't. Of course, knowing that gender roles are arbitrary and mutable doesn't make them any easier to change to get rid of. Until traditionalism as a life philosophy doesn't die off, a lot of really stupid, harmful things are going to stay alive due to sheer cultural inertia.

 

[Scolar Visari]

I'm all for moving away from traditional gender roles.

I've often been derided by others, both female and male, for my interests and behavior. Though most people either change their minds or keep their opinions to themselves once they learn what I do for a living or find out some of my other hobbies [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtpG4u4w_Zw].

Plus, non-traditional/tomboy girls make me go all spaghettios and the world needs more of them.

 

[sextus the crazy]

How has this not been posted yet?

Anyway, to add more fuel to the fire, isn't it interesting how a guy that sleeps around is a "player", and yet a girl that sleeps around is a "slut".

props for the C&H comic.

The Idea of women who sleep around being worse is a concept rooted in ancient & medieval tradition. If a women slept around, she could get pregnant, leading to someone other than her husband having claim to their property/fortune/land etc. As such, society reinforced the notion a woman's viginity and fidelity were her most important aspects in order to protect family property.

 

[StriderShinryu]

That's sort of a tough one. I don't believe there should be restrictions on roles based on gender but, at the same time, I do feel that there are definitely differences between genders. Some of the differences are pure physical/mechanical and others are mental, though how much of that aspect is born psychology and how much is learned I don't know.

I guess it's easiest to sum up my position by saying that merit, ability and desire should be given top billing, I won't deny that certain genders do seem to more easily excel in certain roles.

 

[ohnoitsabear]

I'm of the opinion that people, regardless of gender, should be able to do what they like without feeling too much pressure from other people (within reason, of course). People shouldn't try to conform to traditional gender roles if they don't want to, but they shouldn't be pressured to avoid those roles if they're perfectly happy filling them. It's kind of sad that some people care so much about other people's lives that they pressure them into doing things they're not happy with.

 

[Cazza]

I saw a thread here awhile back something like "Guys how do you feel getting beaten by a girl in games?"
How does gender decided how good you are at games? That girl could have been nature better at gaming or has put more hours into that game or genre to be better.

I wanted to post "Girls how does it feel when a guy is a better cook them you?" But stopped myself.
Maybe that guys hobby is cooking? Or has just cooked more to get better at it etc.

What I hate most about double standards are the ones that imply 1 sex is better at 1 activity just for being that sex.

 

[Ryotknife]

I saw a thread here awhile back something like "Guys how do you feel getting beaten by a girl in games?"
How does gender decided how good you are at games? That girl could have been nature better at gaming or has put more hours into that game or genre to be better.

I wanted to post "Girls how does it feel when a guy is a better cook them you?" But stopped myself.
Maybe that guys hobby is cooking? Or has just cooked more to get better at it etc.

What I hate most about double standards are the ones that imply 1 sex is better at 1 activity just for being that sex.

"thank god, now he can do the cooking instead of me"?

When you come right down to it, cooking is a job.

 

[game-lover]

I dislike most gender roles. I'm really particular on the whole kids thing. Marriage is meh because I'd like to get married one day, though I'm in no rush. But children? NEVER. And I hope to God I never run into people IRL who say some of that shit about me because I'm a woman. I will punch them.

But connected to the physical/mechanical part of gender roles, I tend to sorta be for those, I think. Mostly.

American Football, for example. I look at a woman wanting to play said sport with the boys not that they shouldn't do it but that I wonder if they know what they're getting into. This is a physical sort of situation. Do you know how big some of those guys are in American football? And how stats say the average man is stronger than the average woman? And you wanna go out there and get tackled? When guys get seriously injured on their own?

Well... more power to you, hun. I'm just gonna be up here in the safety of the bleachers.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

What kind of a poll is this, is it only aimed at stirring up trouble? All 4 of those options make it sound like gender roles are LAW, laws that can apparently be "broken". That's just silly.

Even today a woman can become a housewife WITHOUT being classified as a gender-role-restricted female, she isn't thinking "oh no, should I assume my gender role or break it??", she is thinking "what should i do that suits my family and lifestyle, especially with a baby on the way?"

Do you know how big some of those guys are in American football? And how stats say the average man is stronger than the average woman? And you wanna go out there and get tackled? When guys get seriously injured on their own?

"Stats say", well said...you dodged a potential feminist bullet there

Aren't there female football teams? If there are female rugby teams here in NZ (granted only at school/club level) there must be female football teams somewhere

 

[hazabaza1]

Tomboys are sexy and gay blokes are... well, gay.
That's how I see it anyway.

 

[mechashiva77]

What kind of a poll is this, is it only aimed at stirring up trouble? All 4 of those options make it sound like gender roles are LAW, laws that can apparently be "broken". That's just silly.

Even today a woman can become a housewife WITHOUT being classified as a gender-role-restricted female, she isn't thinking "oh no, should I assume my gender role or break it??", she is thinking "what should i do that suits my family and lifestyle, especially with a baby on the way?"

o you know how big some of those guys are in American football? And how stats say the average man is stronger than the average woman? And you wanna go out there and get tackled? When guys get seriously injured on their own?

"Stats say", well said...you dodged a potential feminist bullet there

Aren't there female football teams? If there are female rugby teams here in NZ (granted only at school/club level) there must be female football teams somewhere

I honestly didn't see the poll that way, but ok.

No we don't have many female football teams. We have rugby teams, but the only female football games that occur are annual "Powder-Puff" games which vary from school to school.

 

[Ryotknife]

Anyway. There's still a terrible double standard when it comes to women vs. men: the whole marriage/kids thing. It's perfectly fine if a man doesn't want either of those, but a woman is one of the following if she does't want a husband and kids:

I think this depends on a lot of factors, some of which may be cultural. As an older (well, compared to most Escapists) unmarried man, I've certainly heard incredulous comments about the way I live. And while my family has not harassed me much about it, it's clear they're somewhat unhappy with the fact that I'm not settled down. I've even had situations where I suspect one member of my family has gone fishing a little bit to see if I'll admit to being gay as an explanation for remaining single so late.

So I'm not saying that there isn't a double standard. Just don't overstate the case and portray men as totally okay.

I have completely forgotten about that. At least your family tried to be subtle in asking you, mine....wasnt so subtle (i think my family has some genetic mutation that prevents us from understanding or utilizing subtelty). Think I was asked at least a dozen times when i hit....25 or so if i was gay for no other reason than because i wasnt married. I didnt even display any of the common gay stereotypes.

thankfully they have stopped asking.

 

[Ryotknife]

What kind of a poll is this, is it only aimed at stirring up trouble? All 4 of those options make it sound like gender roles are LAW, laws that can apparently be "broken". That's just silly.

Even today a woman can become a housewife WITHOUT being classified as a gender-role-restricted female, she isn't thinking "oh no, should I assume my gender role or break it??", she is thinking "what should i do that suits my family and lifestyle, especially with a baby on the way?"

Do you know how big some of those guys are in American football? And how stats say the average man is stronger than the average woman? And you wanna go out there and get tackled? When guys get seriously injured on their own?

"Stats say", well said...you dodged a potential feminist bullet there

Aren't there female football teams? If there are female rugby teams here in NZ (granted only at school/club level) there must be female football teams somewhere

you know...I have never heard of a female football team here in the US. Female rugby teams, yes, which is wierd as that sport is more violent and dangerous than american football.

well....maybe flag/tag football, doesnt really count though.

 

[Ariseishirou]

Gender roles would be aight, so long as they weren't mandatory, and people weren't belittled/shamed/ridiculed/mocked/harassed for choosing not to abide by them.

Unfortunately, that pretty much never happens. So I say screw them.

 

[Dark_Reaction]

Anyway. There's still a terrible double standard when it comes to women vs. men: the whole marriage/kids thing. It's perfectly fine if a man doesn't want either of those, but a woman is one of the following if she does't want a husband and kids:

(Beware, these are stereotypes and what 'people' think, not what I think)
1. Lesbian
2. Fooling herself
3. Too ugly to find a man
4. Lying to herself (same as above, I know, but it bears repeating)
5. Denying nature/biological clock
6. A career woman aka ice queen/*****
7. Not quite right in the head
8. Damaged goods
9. Spinster/cat lady

... And there's probably a few more. A guy who doesn't want kids is:

1. Straight or gay, both is fine
2. Focused on his career which is perfectley ok
3. Never going to grow up (not generally seen in a bad light)
4. Normal - all men don't need to want kids


And believe me, as a woman around the age of 30, I've been called/told all of the above. Even by family. And total strangers. People truly think there is something deeply, horribly wrong with you if you don't want kids and will tell you so. The nicest thing they say? "Oh, you'll change your mind" "Oh, you'll see sense later on" "Oh, you'll know better later" ... Yeah. Still makes me want to throat-punch them.

As a male approaching 30, I would argue that there is another dreadful double standard that exists within people's perceptions, and that is with regards to sexual compulsion.

For comparison:
It's perfectly fine if a woman doesn't want sex to any great degree, but a man is one of the following if he doesn't exhibit (what I would consider) an extreme focus upon obtaining sex with a woman:

(Likewise, the 'Beware, these are stereotypes and what 'people' think, not what I think' notion applies to the following as well)
1. Gay
2. Fooling himself
3. Too ugly to find a woman
4. Gay
5. Spending more time masturbating than breathing
6. Denying nature/instinctual male sexual drive
7. A career man aka one-night-stand-stud
8. Gay
9. Not quite right in the head
10. Damaged goods
11. Gay
12. Gay
13. Gay
14. Gay
15. Gay

... And there's probably a few more, most of which tend to focus on his desire to explore the labyrinthine passages of big hairy men's rear ends.

A woman who doesn't want sex with a man is:

1. 'Not a slut'
2. Focused on her career, which is perfectly okay
3. Finds a vibrator more fulfilling than a man could be (not generally seen in a bad light)
4. Normal - all women don't need to want sex
5. A lesbian (not generally seen in a bad light)

Of course, that goes both ways after a fashion, as a woman who DOES want sex with a man is often portrayed as 'A slut', while a man who DOES exhibit the (in my opinion) overt drive for sex with a woman is considered normal or (if successful more often than not) a stud/'playa'.

 

[Moth_Monk]

One thing that pisses me off is this idea that if a man is traditionally masculine then he must be insecure.

 

[Direbaka]

A key that can open many locks is a fucking awesome key, on the other hand a lock that is opened by many keys is a shitty lock.

Not to pick on you, but I've never liked that analogy. One can mess around with the concept though:

"A wall socket that can turn on any plug is an amazing wall socket. A plug that can plug into any wall socket is an amazing plug."

"A wrench that can turn any bolt is an amazing wrench. A bolt that can be turned by any wrench is a weird bolt."

"A mailbox that can hold any package is useful. A package that can fit in any mailbox is small."

How about one more apt to this site?

"A console that can play any game is an amazing console. A game that can be played on any console is not defined by traditional video game values."

 

[Tanakh]

This isn't going to end well. Good lord it will not, and yet I still feel compelled to make this post.

A hypocrisy I often see is that it's ok for women to do/like masculine things, but it's not ok for men to do/like feminine things. People will often come to the defense of a woman wearing pants or watching Samurai Jack, but will harp on a man for manicuring his nails or watching My Little Pony (I can understand being put-off by crazy fans, but I am strictly talking about those who chide fans for watching a show aimed at girls). I vehemently disagree with it.

So against my better judgement, I would like to know what you all think about this.

I wanted a: "I think they are fine, are helpful and make sense due the different neurochemestry of each gender's brain, but if one want's not to follow it more power to him", or abreviated "they are fine, but wouldn't get my panties in a wad if anyone wants to break them.

Edit: Also, i am mainly talking at working roles within society. Tastes? I couldn't care less, of course i would make fun at a friend that likes MLP, but wouldn't disciriminate him for that.

 

[mechashiva77]

One thing that pisses me off is this idea that if a man is traditionally masculine then he must be insecure.

I don't really care if a guy is traditionally masculine or not. It just ticks me off when they are expected to showcase either.