Poll: Are gamers today too self entitiled?

[Podunk]

I'd say a lot of gamers are too entitled these days, but even more distressing is the larger group that immediately labels any grievances players have as 'being entitled'. Critics have been balking for years about how complacent the gaming community is and how 'they' pay for the Madden Updates, the Day-One DLC, the terrible/safe/both franchises but now we've gotten to the point where there's this terrible backlash on any person or group that wants to speak about about something that bothers them. Not all complaints are equally valid, but the ones with a large enough public support can honestly not be wrong (even if they totally are.) Consumers drive the market, and a large influential group of unhappy consumers is the last thing any company wants.

 

[hermes]

Not as much as developers

If anyone has any right to feel entitled to it, its them... BECAUSE THEY MAKE IT !!!

Let me put this as clear as I can: before Bioware decided to do it, Mass Effect was literally NOTHING. No Shepard, no Sovereign, No Saren... nothing. And since they put countless hours into creating the characters, world, story, music, concept art, etc; while all consumers put was the equivalent of a few Whopper combos, guess who has more right to feel entitled to it.

I disagree completely. Who gives them the money so that they can go on to make games? The consumers do. Without us there isn't even a Bioware in the first place. Gamers are in a way the developers bosses.

I thought bosses were, in a way, developers bosses.

If they do a good job we pay them well for it. If they don't then they lose money. If they want to continue making games, then they should respect what the people who pay them want.

Not to say that developers shouldn't have creative freedom. If they didn't then we'd be on Modern Warfare #2097 by now. But they do need to stop taking their fans for granted and understand we're not obligated to buy their games just because they put some time and money into making it.

Of course not, and that is the best way to voice your opinion: don't buy their products. That is the ultimate way a capitalist consumer votes. If Bioware goes to bankrupt after Mass Effect 4 because a lot less people bought it, they will pay attention.

But taking away the creativity freedom because you don't like what they did with it is the core of this self-entitlement argument. Whether you like it or not, Mass Effect 3 is the disk that you buy from a store. Its the result of several factor (including creative freedom from the developers), and your money and dedication are infinitesimal parts compared to the actual work they did. So, if YOU think they used it wrong, and YOU think they should redo it or, better yet, listen to people like YOU to do it properly... then, YOU, sir, are self-entitled.

 

[esperandote]

Not as much as developers

So you're saying that developers shouldn't be able to do what they want with their games? If I write a book, I can write it any way I want and can make the ending as terrible as I want. No matter how much you complain, I'll only change it if I think it will improve the book in any way.

You shouldn't be able to block part of the book that was ready on edition and printing and then charge extra for it.

Not as much as developers

If anyone has any right to feel entitled to it, its them... BECAUSE THEY MAKE IT !!!

Let me put this as clear as I can: before Bioware decided to do it, Mass Effect was literally NOTHING. No Shepard, no Sovereign, No Saren... nothing. And since they put countless hours into creating the characters, world, story, music, concept art, etc; while all consumers put was the equivalent of a few Whopper combos, guess who has more right to feel entitled to it.

At least Carl Jrs doesn't try to block my right of reselling the second hamburguer after I didn't like the first one.

To both, I wasn't talking about The Mass Efect controversy, sorry if that was the subject of the thread.

 

[hermes]

No video games are a business. We as consumers have every right to complain about anything we feel like...

You know, there is a difference between "complain" and

Spoiler

"demand"

Somewhere along the way, a line was crossed.

But see, unless someone actually threatens bodily harm on a publisher it isn't really a demand. Sure they can use the word demand but the word request would be interchangeable. Just because they use the word doesn't mean it really is a demand.

Well, I guess all those name calling, personally addressing developers and employees is perfectly fine as long as its not physical. Somewhere I must have missed the part where bullying was defined as nothing short of a punch in the face.

And I also guess all those hate mails, death threats and calling at people like body functions, organs, byproducts or promiscuous members of the society where coming from a different, less civilized community. Carry on, then...

 

[Piorn]

As far as I see it, game developers want to make a game as shitty as possible, while earning as much money as possible. The force that has to counter this has to be the "entitled gamer", who complains about bad work. The problem is finding the balance.

 

[Grunt_Man11]

Yes, but not because they are complaining. As consumers we have the right to complain about something we feel is not right.

The reason they're "too self-entitled" is their attitudes that surround those complains.

The attitude is that they are always right and there is absolutely no way they are wrong.
Too many dismiss any arguments that disagree with their complaint without even trying to see it from another point of view, and thus they make little to no effort to defend their position.

Not backing up your point makes it look like you don't have a point.

It doesn't matter how right you are, or how poor the counter-argument is. When you simply dismiss any counter-arguments, you make yourself look self-entitled. Just yelling, "F*** YOU!! You don't understand!" is not how you argue a case. Unfortunately it seems that's all many gamers can do, or are willing to do.

The attitude can be summed as follows:

"I'm right and anyone who disagrees is a (insert insult of choice here)!"

PC gamers are the worst about this, but that probably is simply because they're also the most vocal. It's simply the Law of Averages.

Nothing wrong with being vocal. Certainly console gamers could stand to be a little more vocal.
It's just when you take the flawed attitude of, "the customer is always right even when wrong," is when you cross the line from concerned consumer to self-entitled brat.

 

[Jodah]

No video games are a business. We as consumers have every right to complain about anything we feel like...

You know, there is a difference between "complain" and

Spoiler

"demand"

Somewhere along the way, a line was crossed.

But see, unless someone actually threatens bodily harm on a publisher it isn't really a demand. Sure they can use the word demand but the word request would be interchangeable. Just because they use the word doesn't mean it really is a demand.

Well, I guess all those name calling, personally addressing developers and employees is perfectly fine as long as its not physical. Somewhere I must have missed the part where bullying was defined as nothing short of a punch in the face.

And I also guess all those hate mails, death threats and calling at people like body functions, organs, byproducts or promiscuous members of the society where coming from a different, less civilized community. Carry on, then...

And those few people should be charged with harassment. Point is they are in the minority. The vast majority of the people who "demand" something, aren't actually demanding anything. Saying gamers are entitled just because random jackass 146 decided to be a random jackass isn't much different from saying Muslims are terrorists because of what Al-Qaeda did.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

And anyone that answers it as if justifying that their actions are not entitled at all, shall have this image as an answer...

Oh yes. Because complaining, giving to charity and sending cupcakes is a PERFECT analogue for kidnapping, smashing someone's ankles with a hammer, and attempted murder.

The usual high quality of argument from the entitlement crowd. Everyone take a shot!

 

[Casual Shinji]

You're on the internet, buddy; Everyone feels entitled here.

 

[Blade_125]

This is all based on the "laws" of economics. Consumers demand a specific product or level of service. If they don't get it they complain. If nothing is fixed they move on.

This is about entitlement, at least in the way I think you are saying.

We all have finite resources (money) and have to chose what we spend it on, as we can obviously buy more than we earn.

This is how the world works. Supply and demand. If a game is shit, then we tell the maker and the fix it, or we no longer buy their products.

Using the Mass Effect example, people were given something different than they were advertised, adn so want that corrected. It's up to EA to decide if they think this problem is going to cost them money in the long run, and if it is worth investing dolalrs now to potentially keep customers loyal. The argument over entitlement is really rather silly, since this is the way the world works. The internet helps make things more vocal now, since so many more people can voice their opinions, but in the end those opinions only matter if you express them with your wallet.

For me, I will no longer pre-buy EA games, and will likely wait over a year for the price to seriously drop if I want a game from them. As bad as the ending was I am more concerned about the DRM and day 1 $10 DLC (that wasn't worth $2 of my dollars). Companies make most of their money from people buying at the beginning. If you want things to change then use your power to not buy.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

And those few people should be charged with harassment. Point is they are in the minority. The vast majority of the people who "demand" something, aren't actually demanding anything. Saying gamers are entitled just because random jackass 146 decided to be a random jackass isn't much different from saying Muslims are terrorists because of what Al-Qaeda did.

There's also the fact that name calling and "sense of entitlement" aren't even remotely related to one another.

If I was walking down the street and someone called me an asshole, the first thought into my head wouldn't be "this guy has a real sense of entitlement!".

Yet, apparently, we're to understand that every bad behavior indulged in by every gamer, everywhere, stems from some mythological "sense of entitlement". They don't have anger issues, or depression. They're not misogynist, or excitable, or just pre-teens who think profanity is hilarious.

Nope, it all stems from entitlement.

Entitlement entitlement entitlement.

It's some fucking word of the day calender shit up on these forums lately.

 

[HappyPillz]

I disagree completely. Who gives them the money so that they can go on to make games? The consumers do. Without us there isn't even a Bioware in the first place. Gamers are in a way the developers bosses.

I thought bosses were, in a way, developers bosses.

If they do a good job we pay them well for it. If they don't then they lose money. If they want to continue making games, then they should respect what the people who pay them want.

Not to say that developers shouldn't have creative freedom. If they didn't then we'd be on Modern Warfare #2097 by now. But they do need to stop taking their fans for granted and understand we're not obligated to buy their games just because they put some time and money into making it.

Of course not, and that is the best way to voice your opinion: don't buy their products. That is the ultimate way a capitalist consumer votes. If Bioware goes to bankrupt after Mass Effect 4 because a lot less people bought it, they will pay attention.

But taking away the creativity freedom because you don't like what they did with it is the core of this self-entitlement argument. Whether you like it or not, Mass Effect 3 is the disk that you buy from a store. Its the result of several factor (including creative freedom from the developers), and your money and dedication are infinitesimal parts compared to the actual work they did. So, if YOU think they used it wrong, and YOU think they should redo it or, better yet, listen to people like YOU to do it properly... then, YOU, sir, are self-entitled.

You seem to have missed the part where I said that I wasn't saying that developers shouldn't have creative freedom. My point was that if they want to continue making money, then they need to stop acting like they own the consumers. Lately I've been noticing that a lot of companies seem to have decided that it is okay for them to treat the consumers like garbage and they don't give a second thought at all to the fact that we keep them in business. Take the whole 'Used Games' debate, and the rumours that next gen consoles won't play used games. If that is true, then I will simply not be buying a next gen console, as I'm sure many other people won't either. But the fact that that is even being talked about shows the attitude there is towards consumers. They don't have to consider what gamers want, because they take it for granted we will give them our money.

And yes, I know that that is just a rumour, but given the recent issues that have been coming up in the gaming comunity, it doesnt seem far fetched at all. I have some other examples I could have used, but I'm between classes right now so time isn't in my favour.

 

[Blade_125]

Yes, but not because they are complaining. As consumers we have the right to complain about something we feel is not right.

The reason they're "too self-entitled" is their attitudes that surround those complains.

The attitude is that they are always right and there is absolutely no way they are wrong.
Too many dismiss any arguments that disagree with their complaint without even trying to see it from another point of view, and thus they make little to no effort to defend their position.

Not backing up your point makes it look like you don't have a point.

It doesn't matter how right you are, or how poor the counter-argument is. When you simply dismiss any counter-arguments, you make yourself look self-entitled. Just yelling, "F*** YOU!! You don't understand!" is not how you argue a case. Unfortunately it seems that's all many gamers can do, or are willing to do.

The attitude can be summed as follows:

"I'm right and anyone who disagrees is a (insert insult of choice here)!"

PC gamers are the worst about this, but that probably is simply because they're also the most vocal. It's simply the Law of Averages.

Nothing wrong with being vocal. Certainly console gamers could stand to be a little more vocal.
It's just when you take the flawed attitude of, "the customer is always right even when wrong," is when you cross the line from concerned consumer to self-entitled brat.

You are slightly wrong in this. If I have a legitimate problem them something I bought then ti doesn't matter if you disagree with it or not. If I think my food is too cold then it doesn't matter if the cook says he likes the food at the temperature it is. I paid money for this food and end expect it to be to my liking, and if the restauraunt isn't going to fix it, then I won't be coming back.

If enough people have a problem then the company has to adapt or lose business. We are not talking about a philisophical debate on the value of a game, or if the ending fulfills a player, we are talking about do I feel like I got value for my $60.

 

[Blade_125]

{/quote] So, if YOU think they used it wrong, and YOU think they should redo it or, better yet, listen to people like YOU to do it properly... then, YOU, sir, are self-entitled.[/quote]

No, just... No.

I am a purchaser by profession, and I remember having a conversation with one of the sales guys in my office. I mentioned I was moving to a cheaper supplier and he told me how he hates when his customers won't even give him the chance to quote.

Feedback is important. If I chose to no longer buy bioware games because of this then they have no room to improve. If they say "sorry, our bad" and move on, then how can I trust they didn't mess up the next game?

Showing a willingness to correct mistakes that the majority of their customer base is unhappy about will restore faith and keep their business going.

Personally I don't think Bioware should bother with redoing the ME3 ending, but only because it would be such a major undertaking. An add on isn't going to cut it. IN order to make the game make sense they need serious writing work, and programing to make the rest of the game matter. I am sure that is why it wasn't done in the first place. EA decided we would all buy it anyway and they could save money.

Long story short, There is no such thin as entitlement in business. Either you sell your product and make a profit, or the customer demand to much for too little money and you don't have a business.

 

[Something Amyss]

Yeah but sadly this has been common place in video games for a long time and people have never before caused such an uproar about this kinda thing. Look at the Fable games for example, we were promised loads of features that never really happened and no one demanded it be put in then.

If you think that constituted false advertising, as this actually does, then you are basically arguing that consumers didn't stand up for their rights then so...what? They shouldn't now? They are wrong now?

 

[poiuppx]

Yes. But not so much in the examples you gave.

Being passionate about something like the ending to Mass Effect 3 makes sense to me. It evoked anger and a sense of betrayal, largely because of broken promises and a failure of tonal match to the rest of the trillogy. And for Dark Souls, there are a lot of folks who viciously resist GFWL for a number of reasons. Making a petition for there to be an option B doesn't seem wholely unreasonable.

However!

Gamers as a whole expect it all. We expect epic storytelling, sweeping worlds, amazing characters, clever puzzles- but not too clever, damnit, we better be able to solve them before our friends without a guide! -engaging gameplay, perfect voice acting, and zero glitches across every platform involved. We expect our games on time, our DLC free and/or released after the game has been out for a lengthy period of time with no trace of it on-disc, our developers to do it for the art, our publishers to always back the projects WE care about most, and to never have to say the letters 'DRM' anywhere near the context of the game.

In short, we want everything.

Now, is this a terrible thing? Not really. Gaming is a young medium. It's the job of both creators and consumers to push the medium as far and as hard as it'll go. Part of that is expectations on both sides.

Yet, we easily can take those expectations too far. We look at how one studio does things and expect the same out of all others, ignoring differences in technology, platform, conditions, who reports to who, what the rating boards demand, what the shareholders demand... ultimately, to put it in a simple way, we expect the lovechild of Bethesda and Valve, released as swiftly as a new Zynga game. And when it fails to live up to that, some of us get downright vile with their comments. THAT is when we become too entitled.

A friend once said that every bug and glitch you find in a game is just the stuff the QA team and programmers DIDN'T catch and fix; you never see behind the scenes, the daily grind, to make the games we praise and denounce. And that's probably for the best. It'd be like seeing the sausages get made for a lot of us.

To sum up, yeah, we can go too far, and be too thin-skinned when people call us out for it. It's what we love, it's a new medium, and we're wrapped up in it tightly. Is it universal? No. Is it frustrating? Yes. Is it unfair to the devs? Depends on if they deserved it or not.

 

[black_knight1337]

With Mass effect 3 this statement right here

Are we as gamers too self entitled today or are we right in demanding things be changed just because we don't like it?

is completely untrue. Gamers were promised a non 'choose a, b or c ending' and yet thats what they gave us so I think that everyone who is complaining about that has every right to. With the recent dark souls using gfwl thats just common sense. gfwl is a pretty poor piece of drm and it would make much more sense to distribute it using steam. It would get to a greater audience, the drm isn't intrusive and all in all everyone wins.

 

[The_Lost_King]

For the most part, no. The concerns are legitimate. People see gamers acting like consumers of any other product, and ddcide that they're all self-entitled little twerps.

Anyone who starts an "Entitlement" thread needs to take a shot every time the word "Entitlement" comes up on these forums.

Should kill em off quick.

What these guys said

 

[Taerdin]

No gamers are not too entitled.

The whole entitlement thing is just a media spin job in attempt to crush criticism.

If you are a consumer and you dislike something about a product why the hell should you not say something? Does anything ever improve without criticism? If everything someone does is good enough do they have any incentive to try harder?

Please use your brains. I feel like there is a war going on against critical though and critical thought is losing.

 

[Something Amyss]

With Mass effect 3 this statement right here

Are we as gamers too self entitled today or are we right in demanding things be changed just because we don't like it?

is completely untrue. Gamers were promised a non 'choose a, b or c ending' and yet thats what they gave us so I think that everyone who is complaining about that has every right to. With the recent dark souls using gfwl thats just common sense. gfwl is a pretty poor piece of drm and it would make much more sense to distribute it using steam. It would get to a greater audience, the drm isn't intrusive and all in all everyone wins.

While I agree with you, it shouldn't matter anyway.

People complain about not getting what they want all the time. It annoys me that people are pretending this is about a happy ending or whatever, but it just shouldn't matter at all. Consumers have the right to be mad, and even the right to make demands. Companies have the right to listen or not and act accordingly. This is part of consumerism. It's freaking business.