Poll: Are gamers today too self entitiled?

[GonzoGamer]

Anyone who starts an "Entitlement" thread needs to take a shot in the crotch every time the word "Entitlement" comes up on these forums.

Fixed that for you. Especially the ones who don't seem to know what the word means, and are just playing buzzword bingo. Not mentioning any names, of course...

Thank you.
Yes, I don't think gamers are acting over-entitled as much as they are over/mis-using the term entitlement.

Having not played ME3, I don't know if the ending is really just bad, non-existent, or just unsatisfying for the fans so I can't really comment on that.

However I have noticed that 99% of the time I see the term entitlement used on game forums, it's being mis-used.
For example, paying $60 for a product does actually "entitle" you to something. A lot of gamers seem to forget that; or (some who must see the game industry as a charity case) just want to give that up. I've actually seen gamers state that they don't feel like they're entitled to anything.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I don't get why everyone thinks this is just in response to the ME3 bullshit. Want to see entitlement in action? Look at any old MW2 or Black Ops PC thread you can find.

I promise you you'll find numerous complaints from people about not having dedicated servers or modding tools. They were never promised them, nor were they told to expect them. But they felt entitled to them.

I hate hate HATE how this sounds like flamebait, but from every observation I've ever made, this "self-entitlement" thing only occurs to PC gamers. I can't remember the last time I met one of my console-owning friends and discussed how sad it was that we didn't have dedicated servers or mods.

It of course can't be for any other reason than the publisher hating you and wanting to extract money from you. Not handing you a sandbox to fuck around with their work is the ultimate disservice, apparently. And because of this "we deserve mods" mentality, they also feel entitled to any form of DLC, claiming that "they could have made it themselves if you had given them the chance".

I'll say this again; I don't wish to offend any PC gamers and what I've noticed may not apply to you indivudually, so don't take it personally. But for people who enjoy video games and are getting tired of the drama and politics, I genuinely feel that console gaming makes for a far more pleasant experience.

that's because consoles have never had dedicated servers or mod tools, if modern warfare 4 came out, and you get the game, and you learn that you can't save in the single player, and you can't choose your weapon loadout in multiplayer, would you not be pissed?

i could just say that the singleplayer functions just fine, you can play the game from beginning to end whenever you see fit (pausing it), and the same goes for multiplayer, you are guaranteed a weapon, but we never said you'd get to pick which one you want!

it's just things that you've come to expect (on the pc side of things), and they are not all that hard to have honestly. console gaming generally makes for a "far more pleasant experience" is because that's where most people start out, and they didn't know how good we USED to have it in alot of games.

do you not complain when a game doesn't have local co op/multiplayer even though it has it online? (especially when its a racing game or a game CLEARLY designed for multiplayer)?

same thing applies right there.

 

[BNguyen]

"It'd be like me not having enough cookies, and you not having one. I go bake you a special cookie that takes up a lot of my time and effort. Then, you decide that I didn't use the right chocolate chips in my cookie, and you throw it in my face. Isn't that a bit of a dick move?"

That might be the worst analogy I've ever heard.

In actuality, it would be like you running a business. A cookie baking business. You create and sell cookies for a profit. I'm a long time customer who is a fan of your chocolate chip cookies. I order your latest chocolate chip cookie, only to find after eating it you decided to make it oatmeal raisin instead, because you thought that would be more interesting. I complain, and you call me entitled. And then you ask me to buy some DLC raisins.

I love how you think the creation of video games for profit is a loving gesture performed out of pure altruism. Honestly, the ideas people get on these forums are just flat out mind blowing sometimes.

OH MY GOD! YOU JUST PROVED MY POINT!!! Those were all nerd-centric (besides sports). Think about it. Nerds and sports fans are now on the same level of annoying bitching over SOMETHING I DON'T PERSONALLY CARE ABOUT.

Fixed that for ya. World doesn't revolve around our interests and opinions, however much we might want it to. What other people care about and assign value to is none of our business.

watch Extra Credits' show on Free Speech
You cannot order someone to create a very expensive product just to suit your needs, a game is a vision formed by the developers. Just because what it has doesn't meet your personal standards or doesn't contain everything you wanted just because you expected it to have it doesn't make it a bad thing - just because you are a fan of the developer or games or whatever of a series doesn't mean that the creator has to follow every whim of the complainers just to keep you on board.
I know it would be bad business to throw out long time customers, but if they are just going to complain and not buy anything that I would develop for them, then there is no point in trying to keep them as customers, it's like throwing money into a furnace - it keeps eating the cash but doesn't die down until you stop giving it something to eat. Rather, I'd want to find a new customer base who can appreciate my products.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

No, now can we stop abusing and misusing the word entitled as it is getting as bad as pro, elite, hardcore, epic and fail. Also stop taking the piss out of people that are making legitimate concerns.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Indeed. It also strikes me as funny that Dark Souls got an internet petition to be made. Then, when gamers get what they wanted, they aren't happy with the way it's being done. So, a new petition, to change the game they're getting because of a petition (which hasn't been released yet), is now circulating.

How can you say that we aren't being entitled?

Here's why people complain about it. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6p8qz6wv8M] It's actually locked me out of games that I've bought in the past. Asking that products that I pay money for should work isn't entitlement, it's how it should be.
GFWL is shit. I can see the decision to use GFWL in this case(video explains it), but I don't think I'll buy the PC version of Dark Souls at full price.

The video is interesting... However, he does touch (albeit, very VERY briefly), over the same major concern that I have: Gamers request a game, publisher makes the game, the game doesn't sell...no more games.

Obviously, that's a tad extreme. But publishers hate nothing more than losing money. They obviously didn't have much faith in a PC Port to begin with, or they would have just made one. This just re-affirms their decision to NOT make a port. And don't be naive enough to think other publishers will look at what Namco did wrong here. Expect them to see the hit to Namco's bottom line, with the cause being a PC port.

So they suck at Business. This may come as a surprise, but when your Business sucks at being a Business it's common place for it to fail. If you seriously are so disconnected that you didn't realize right from the get go that GFWL would be a bad thing to use...well sorry, but you don't deserve to turn a profit. Oh and if you are also stupid enough to actually believe the bullshit excuses you give the public for why your game failed it's probably for the best that you go down because you obviously don't know what the fuck you are doing anyway.

Here's the deal, they have been given a clear warning. People have said they want the Game but they don't want Games for Windows Live. This shouldn't even be something they have to be told. About 5 Seconds of Research should make it pretty obvious that if you are going to go with DD DRM you go with Steam. You don't go with GfWL, you don't go with Origin and you don't go with whatever Ubisoft calls their thing either. You also don't go with all the ones that are pretty much unknown.

If your Game has ''Games for Windows Live'' on it you might aswell write ''Do not buy this''

This shouldn't reaffirm the idea of not porting it, all this should tell them is that making bad business decisions is bad...and that this specific mistake would have been easily avoidable...who'da thunk it?

GFWL isn't about the DRM. It's about the Net code for a port of an XBL game. And they aren't doing bad business, they're doing proper business. Without GFWL, the port wouldn't be cost effective. Without cost effectiveness, you don't get your game. So, before you jump to "bad business", take a look at the production costs and time required for a team to build brand new net code.

 

[twaddle]

Here is my opinion.In some areas yes and in others no. I think this mass effect thing has gone a bit too far. Back in my day if we did not like the end of a story we simply just decided no to accept it. If we wanted our own ending, we would write fan fiction. If we wanted the story to continue or end differently we would gather together and mod the game so it could either have the ending we wanted or use mods to keep the game fresh and fun.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

watch Extra Credits' show on Free Speech

You cannot order someone to create a very expensive product just to suit your needs, a game is a vision formed by the developers. Just because what it has doesn't meet your personal standards or doesn't contain everything you wanted just because you expected it to have it doesn't make it a bad thing - just because you are a fan of the developer or games or whatever of a series doesn't mean that the creator has to follow every whim of the complainers just to keep you on board.

I know it would be bad business to throw out long time customers, but if they are just going to complain and not buy anything that I would develop for them, then there is no point in trying to keep them as customers, it's like throwing money into a furnace - it keeps eating the cash but doesn't die down until you stop giving it something to eat. Rather, I'd want to find a new customer base who can appreciate my products.

1. This is not a Free Speech issue.

2. Extra Credits have some interesting segments, but you need to recognize they are not actually an authority on anything. They are occasionally hilariously off base and not above making embarrassing emotional appeals, as their "games addiction" segment demonstrated.

3. I can request whatever I wish from developers, and if they don't meet my expectations, I maintain the right to take my business elsewhere. If I was alone in my dissatisfaction, this would be an utterly impotent threat. Do you think I am alone in my dissatisfaction with the ending of ME3?

4. "Every whim" is both a straw man, and a slippery slope, crammed into two words. Well done. No one is asking for their "every whim" to be obeyed. The fact people keep reflexively defaulting to these idiotic arguments says a lot about how cogent their position was to begin with.

5. All the customers are asking for is something consistent with the quality demonstrated in past games, or even the quality demonstrated in the bulk of ME3. That's not too much to ask for, eh? Quality consistency? Damn the rabble and their outrageous demands! Asking for quality! Better to burn the company to the ground than give in to that!

6. I'm tired of this discussion, and you should be too. I realize you're not the one who performed the necromancy on this awful, awful thread, but we need to put this 'debate' to bed already and move on to other things.

 

[General BrEeZy]

Yeah we whine alot.

No comment on ME3. not again.

But i'm glad the companies listen to us...sometimes. I like 343i so far, they're paying attention to us! When I hated Halo Reach's Infection camping spots, they removed the maps and added fresh new ones! (fresh new edits of already-existing maps, but they're still fresh!) bahaha

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Almost as terrible as your stupid cookie analogy.

Here's a new cookie analogy!

The cookie company bakes many different flavors of cookies. Everyone wants a new flavor (port). Nobody buys the new flavor because they don't like the taste. Now there are no new cookies.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Words

Oh sure, you have the power to make or break the publisher but that doesn't mean they have to satisfy every one of your personal requirements to sell it to you. You are entitled to buy or not buy the game, not demand aspects of it be changed to make you want to buy it a little bit more. You are not the creative party, you're the guy with the money and that's all you'll ever be to them. It's their choice whether they pander to the market you fit into.

If you seriously think you have the power to fine tune games to your need, especially after release, then you're deluded with your own entitlement. That's all you are to me right now: extremely deluded. Either buy the game or leave it.

This is a thread about gamer entitlement. Your post was saying that this wouldn't happen in other mediums. But it has. It's irrelevant whether or not it's ok, it has happened.

I hope to fucking God you're kidding. My point was that this happens far more frequently in gaming rather than it never happens anywhere else. I was using hyperbole to emphasise my point.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

This is a thread about gamer entitlement. Your post was saying that this wouldn't happen in other mediums. But it has. It's irrelevant whether or not it's ok, it has happened.

I hope to fucking God you're kidding. My point was that this happens far more frequently in gaming rather than it never happens anywhere else. I was using hyperbole to emphasise my point.

Name me any examples other than ME. People complain about these things all the time, in all mediums, for something to be demanded changed is rare, in all mediums. and no need to be rude about it.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Words

Oh sure, you have the power to make or break the publisher but that doesn't mean they have to satisfy every one of your personal requirements to sell it to you. You are entitled to buy or not buy the game, not demand aspects of it be changed to make you want to buy it a little bit more. You are not the creative party, you're the guy with the money and that's all you'll ever be to them. It's their choice whether they pander to the market you fit into.

If you seriously think you have the power to fine tune games to your need, especially after release, then you're deluded with your own entitlement. That's all you are to me right now: extremely deluded. Either buy the game or leave it.

This is a thread about gamer entitlement. Your post was saying that this wouldn't happen in other mediums. But it has. It's irrelevant whether or not it's ok, it has happened.

I hope to fucking God you're kidding. My point was that this happens far more frequently in gaming rather than it never happens anywhere else. I was using hyperbole to emphasise my point.

Thank you, good sir! Thank you so much for that!!!

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Words

Oh sure, you have the power to make or break the publisher but that doesn't mean they have to satisfy every one of your personal requirements to sell it to you.

Uh, yes they are? Or are they going to force me to buy it xD

Sorry, but that was just a stupid sentence.

It's our Money, without our Money they can't survive, thus we are ultimately the boss, their only other real choice is fucking right off and dying in a gutter, we just have to be suffciently pissed. This is by the way the case with any and every industry, consumers pay the bills, thus Companies are at the mercy of them. Don't fuck up too bad, or we might just withold the money they so dearly need.

I think you place too much value on yourself as a consumer. YOUR money doesn't mean ANYTHING to them. $60? This is a multi-billion dollar industry. YOUR money accounts for jack shit. What hurts these publishers is MANY consumers not buying a product.

If you think for a minute that internet boycotts and petitions account for anything, I need only to point back to the L4D2 "boycott", of which the majority of petitioners were playing on launch day, and, more or less, the same petition for about EVERY CoD game.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

This is a thread about gamer entitlement. Your post was saying that this wouldn't happen in other mediums. But it has. It's irrelevant whether or not it's ok, it has happened.

I hope to fucking God you're kidding. My point was that this happens far more frequently in gaming rather than it never happens anywhere else. I was using hyperbole to emphasise my point.

Name me any examples other than ME. People complain about these things all the time, in all mediums, for something to be demanded changed is rare, in all mediums. and no need to be rude about it.

L4D2 (they wanted it as a free expansion).
Day-1 DLC (like it or not, it happens, and your aren't ENTITLED to that content for free).
MW2/MW3 dedicated servers.
Dark Souls PC port.
Pre-Order DLC (believe it or not, I still hear bitching about this).
Online Passes.
Annual Sports Games as roster updates.

And these are just things off the top of my head. Not really even thinking that hard... But, Should I continue?

 

[Vegosiux]

It's our Money, without our Money they can't survive, thus we are ultimately the boss, their only other real choice is fucking right off and dying in a gutter, we just have to be suffciently pissed. This is by the way the case with any and every industry, consumers pay the bills, thus Companies are at the mercy of them. Don't fuck up too bad, or we might just withold the money they so dearly need.

I think you place too much value on yourself as a consumer. YOUR money doesn't mean ANYTHING to them. $60? This is a multi-billion dollar industry. YOUR money accounts for jack shit. What hurts these publishers is MANY consumers not buying a product.

I daresay that unless I am very much mistaken, he used plural in his post instead of singular.

If you think for a minute that internet boycotts and petitions account for anything, I need only to point back to the L4D2 "boycott", of which the majority of petitioners were playing on launch day, and, more or less, the same petition for about EVERY CoD game.

That wasn't "a boycott not working", that was "no boycott at all".

 

[Cranky]

Everyone has a right to their own ideas and opinions, so no.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

If you think for a minute that internet boycotts and petitions account for anything, I need only to point back to the L4D2 "boycott", of which the majority of petitioners were playing on launch day, and, more or less, the same petition for about EVERY CoD game.

That wasn't "a boycott not working", that was "no boycott at all".

"No boycott at all"???

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/L4D2boycott

http://kotaku.com/5286185/valve-responds-to-left-4-dead-2-boycott-vows-support-for-original

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/09/valve-co-opts-l4d2-boycott-by-giving-leaders-free-trip-to-hq.ars

Seems like just as legitimate a "boycott" as any other...

 

[Vegosiux]

"No boycott at all"???

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/L4D2boycott

http://kotaku.com/5286185/valve-responds-to-left-4-dead-2-boycott-vows-support-for-original

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/09/valve-co-opts-l4d2-boycott-by-giving-leaders-free-trip-to-hq.ars

Seems like just as legitimate a "boycott" as any other...

Uhm, no, a "boycott" is when people actually ignore stuff, not just say they're going to.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

"No boycott at all"???

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/L4D2boycott

http://kotaku.com/5286185/valve-responds-to-left-4-dead-2-boycott-vows-support-for-original

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/09/valve-co-opts-l4d2-boycott-by-giving-leaders-free-trip-to-hq.ars

Seems like just as legitimate a "boycott" as any other...

Uhm, no, a "boycott" means that people actually ignore stuff, not just say they're going to.

Well, then we'll see how many people stick to their guns on this Dark Souls PC "boycott"

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Well, then we'll see how many people stick to their guns on this Dark Souls PC "boycott"

You seem to care a lot about what other people care about. It never really occurred to me to fuss over whether or not someone else was enthused or angry about a particular brand or product.

It's an interesting phenomenon, psychologically speaking.