I'm closer to a humanist than I am a feminist, I believe in the rights of all human beings. Feminism has too many negative connotations, it makes it seem exclusive to female rights when we should care about male rights too.
Poll: Are you a feminist?
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Maybe I should have kept the original post intact so you would understand what we were talking about.Mikodite said:
The original post was here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.381869-Poll-Are-you-a-feminist?page=5#15058534]. It talks about losing respect for feminists because of *trivial* complaints, not the serious ones you're mentioning. Abortion isn't trivial because it, quite literally, is a matter of life and death and feminists aren't the only ones that are fighting that battle. It's also religion and more factions. The only people that consider it trivial are fools with no grasp on the topic.
As for calling me an "egalitarian male," No. If you insist, just call me an egalitarian; gender's outside of this argument. This is about feminists in general, not just the females. I won't speak up, not because I'm afraid, but because I just don't want to be politically active. It's something I wouldn't enjoy. I'd rather have the daily routine of going to work then coming home to spend time with my family, not marching around waving protest signs.
I'm certain there are fathers that have had unfair treatment with custody battles because of stereotypes and I truly do sympathize with them, not because I'm a man, but because I love kids and look forward to being a father, myself. And even feminists can sympathize with a loving father who just lost his child (right?). Anyone political can speak up, a feminist, too. It certainly would be more meaningful than complaining about the new Hitman trailer. It would give me more respect for them. Actually, I would have complete faith in them if a feminist openly fought for a loving father who just lost his daughter/son in court. I'd probably cry reading a news article about that.
However, your point about making public statements against "men being made out as retards on television?" That *is* a trivial issue and that's the kind of complaining that's made me lose respect for feminists over the years. Life issues are important to advocate, but public appearances and stereotypes? In school I used to say "sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Why advocate against something that is obviously untrue? Women don't (usually) dress so exposed, so why care that they do in video games? Men (usually) don't recklessly have a child and abandon them, so why care that it's expressed often in soap operas, movies, etc.? It was this kind of complaining that my original post was based on, and it is the main reason why I think feminists (male and female) should move on to defending both genders. Maybe that way they can stop complaining about the trivial stuff and always focus on important issues.
oh... no reference... sad face, and here i was hoping that you would reciprocate with a source that proved your point instead of deflecting the argument... 
Asserting ones independence and equality is not sexism, its fair. I strongly support gay rights as someone directly affected by the outcome of said legislation, does this mean that im "hetrophobic"?
I heard that term the other day from a christian extremist person.. i like it... hetrophobic... although it does make little wavy lines appear underneath it... perhaps its because its not a real thing??
Oh and... "85% of domestic violence reported is against women" as sited by: http://domesticviolencestatistics.org/men-the-overlooked-victims-of-domestic-violence/
its an article about men affected by domestic violence! Men are, according to one study, 40% of the individuals whom have severe domestic violence committed against them, however, this statistic seems to count children whom are male, which is somewhat unfair if you think about it. But the reason that so little attention is paid to male victims of domestic violence is because men are statistically stronger than women on the average. As well, the study shows that men ore often abused with a deadly weapon (65% of the time), this being a fact that asserts the truthyness of my last statement... Colbert reference...
Asserting ones independence and equality is not sexism, its fair. I strongly support gay rights as someone directly affected by the outcome of said legislation, does this mean that im "hetrophobic"?
I heard that term the other day from a christian extremist person.. i like it... hetrophobic... although it does make little wavy lines appear underneath it... perhaps its because its not a real thing??
Oh and... "85% of domestic violence reported is against women" as sited by: http://domesticviolencestatistics.org/men-the-overlooked-victims-of-domestic-violence/
its an article about men affected by domestic violence! Men are, according to one study, 40% of the individuals whom have severe domestic violence committed against them, however, this statistic seems to count children whom are male, which is somewhat unfair if you think about it. But the reason that so little attention is paid to male victims of domestic violence is because men are statistically stronger than women on the average. As well, the study shows that men ore often abused with a deadly weapon (65% of the time), this being a fact that asserts the truthyness of my last statement... Colbert reference...
Father Time said:
Like Hugh Hefner, who was once a feminist but changed to humanist after he saw the movement become hijacked by radical women who outstretch the purpose of giving equal rights into creating the superiority of women.
The feminist movement has been mutilated into something unrecognizable now.
So now, the term 'humanist' is much more accurate and equal.
The feminist movement has been mutilated into something unrecognizable now.
So now, the term 'humanist' is much more accurate and equal.
moopig66 said:Aw, and here i was hoping to have a thread without insults... dow well.
I would love to see your statistics source study... unless you... pulled it out of your butt...
and i love love love when people claim that feminists are somehow sexist. I have spoken to and am friends with many people who would be considered extreme feminists and never have i felt that they are in any way sexist. Its a slur, calling feminists sexist, that is founded on nothing other than a knee jerk defensive reaction from people who oppose feminism.
and... i apologize for any typos, i just got a new keyboard
Darkmantle said:
And what possible purpose would the evil women have for misleading all you soft and trusting men? I mean honestly, its attitude like this that holds our nation and our culture back. You have created a false narrative for a group that you have been told falsities about. Attitudes like this lead to very very bad things historically, i would hope that a group like us gamers would understand somewhat of whats its like to be subjugated. Why cant we all just be nice and happy and get along with each other? its not hard... really...
Darkmantle said:moopig66 said:Aw, and here i was hoping to have a thread without insults... dow well.
I would love to see your statistics source study... unless you... pulled it out of your butt...
and i love love love when people claim that feminists are somehow sexist. I have spoken to and am friends with many people who would be considered extreme feminists and never have i felt that they are in any way sexist. Its a slur, calling feminists sexist, that is founded on nothing other than a knee jerk defensive reaction from people who oppose feminism.
and... i apologize for any typos, i just got a new keyboard
Darkmantle said:
Im FOR equality and gender rights etc etc, Im passionately against feminism.
Feminism is a steaming pile of shit these days, honestly it seems the only things that sprout from feminism are self-righteous women who want to do nothing other than bash men over and over again and crying out for rights that weigh in THEIR FAVOR as opposed to true gender equality, and people like Anita Sarkeesian (oh boy here we go) who seem to think every portrayal of a woman ever conceived has to be a positive, idealistic godess superior to every man surrounding her, as if women are somehow free of faults and therefore should NEVER be portrayed as having any, AS IF IT EVEN MATTERS TO THE WORLD.
Honeslty, I feel bad for any female that tries to speak out against legitimate issues regarding gender equality (pay rates, the incredible degradation of women in some countries to basically objects etc), because they just get drowned out by pointless shit like Sarkeesian.
Not much of a debate on my half, but this shit just really ringles my jammies.
Feminism is a steaming pile of shit these days, honestly it seems the only things that sprout from feminism are self-righteous women who want to do nothing other than bash men over and over again and crying out for rights that weigh in THEIR FAVOR as opposed to true gender equality, and people like Anita Sarkeesian (oh boy here we go) who seem to think every portrayal of a woman ever conceived has to be a positive, idealistic godess superior to every man surrounding her, as if women are somehow free of faults and therefore should NEVER be portrayed as having any, AS IF IT EVEN MATTERS TO THE WORLD.
Honeslty, I feel bad for any female that tries to speak out against legitimate issues regarding gender equality (pay rates, the incredible degradation of women in some countries to basically objects etc), because they just get drowned out by pointless shit like Sarkeesian.
Not much of a debate on my half, but this shit just really ringles my jammies.
Q from Impractical Jokers had some great commentary on the Tell Em Steve Dave podcast. He's a cheerleader for women's rights and wishes them all the empowerment that a man has... but he can't truly be a feminist because he is male. Simply put, no matter how much he likes the idea of feminism, he cannot deny that in a world where women were submissive second class citizens, he as a male would reap all the benefits.
I'm pointing out that the group isn't just extremists, one wants equality for all women and one just wants women all on top. I'm making sure my understanding of feminists are made clear so if I'm actually wrong someone can correct me or something.Zachary Amaranth said:
moopig66 said:And what possible purpose would the evil women have for misleading all you soft and trusting men? I mean honestly, its attitude like this that holds our nation and our culture back. You have created a false narrative for a group that you have been told falsities about. Attitudes like this lead to very very bad things historically, i would hope that a group like us gamers would understand somewhat of whats its like to be subjugated. Why cant we all just be nice and happy and get along with each other? its not hard... really...
Darkmantle said:I'm not going to play the speculation game with you, nor did I say all women or evil or any nonsense as that, stop building straw men. It's more likely it's just ignorance or confirmation bias, as is your case.moopig66 said:Aw, and here i was hoping to have a thread without insults... dow well.
I would love to see your statistics source study... unless you... pulled it out of your butt...
and i love love love when people claim that feminists are somehow sexist. I have spoken to and am friends with many people who would be considered extreme feminists and never have i felt that they are in any way sexist. Its a slur, calling feminists sexist, that is founded on nothing other than a knee jerk defensive reaction from people who oppose feminism.
and... i apologize for any typos, i just got a new keyboard
Darkmantle said:
Those stats are as solid as you can get. All I ask is that there be almost as many shelters for men as there are for women, because men need help to. You are not going to end the violence by pretending there is only one side to the issue, and until feminism catches up to the realities of domestic violence today, I'm not going to support them. Show me the feminist groups trying to get men's shelters open, or educate people about DV against both genders, I'll believe they are about equality.
The insulting of people who advocate for men's rights is not helping your case.
I gues I'm a femnist since I support equal quality for all genders but its not like I go out and protest or anything.
Oh god, im not going to debate with you... ive seen you before and meet people of your persuasion. One day you will, hopefully, wake up and realize that taking an opinion because you want to be contrary is not a healthy thing to do. Your words are the regurgitation labyrinth of machination created by a particularly spiteful group of persons who dont want woman's equality. Please, for your own sake, stop being contrary for the sake of contrariety, and start formulating your own opinions based on your own experiences, like an adult...
and here i was hoping to have an adult conversation... oh well
and here i was hoping to have an adult conversation... oh well
Darkmantle said:moopig66 said:And what possible purpose would the evil women have for misleading all you soft and trusting men? I mean honestly, its attitude like this that holds our nation and our culture back. You have created a false narrative for a group that you have been told falsities about. Attitudes like this lead to very very bad things historically, i would hope that a group like us gamers would understand somewhat of whats its like to be subjugated. Why cant we all just be nice and happy and get along with each other? its not hard... really...
Darkmantle said:I'm not going to play the speculation game with you, nor did I say all women or evil or any nonsense as that, stop building straw men. It's more likely it's just ignorance or confirmation bias, as is your case.moopig66 said:Aw, and here i was hoping to have a thread without insults... dow well.
I would love to see your statistics source study... unless you... pulled it out of your butt...
and i love love love when people claim that feminists are somehow sexist. I have spoken to and am friends with many people who would be considered extreme feminists and never have i felt that they are in any way sexist. Its a slur, calling feminists sexist, that is founded on nothing other than a knee jerk defensive reaction from people who oppose feminism.
and... i apologize for any typos, i just got a new keyboard
Darkmantle said:
Those stats are as solid as you can get. All I ask is that there be almost as many shelters for men as there are for women, because men need help to. You are not going to end the violence by pretending there is only one side to the issue, and until feminism catches up to the realities of domestic violence today, I'm not going to support them. Show me the feminist groups trying to get men's shelters open, or educate people about DV against both genders, I'll believe they are about equality.
The insulting of people who advocate for men's rights is not helping your case.
So I guess that means you're a very noncommittal atheist.Flames66 said:
If you don't claim belief in a God or Gods, that makes you an atheist. Even if your Agnostic, Ignostic, whatever - anyone who doesn't have faith in the gods is by definition an atheist. That's just what the word means, in the same way feminism means equal gender rights. These things are default positions - they aren't something you have to subscribe to in order to be a part of - in fact you would have to specifically take a position against them not to have those labels.
Well I wouldn't be at rallies either but I don't think that's a requirement. And again, having more pressing concerns is not mutually exclusive to caring about equal rights - it's perfectly possible to do both, the latter is just irrelevant to this discussion.Flames66 said:
Men and Women are different! We think different, we act different, We are different. So you cannot measure set facts and really use them as evidence for women being out done in every way by men.
Example Pay, More men take the dangerous, undesirable work and generally favour connivance over comforts. Women the opposite generally going for comfort, easy commute, benefits etc. over money. And guess what because of that men get paid more on average. Of cause this is very generalised and of cause you will give cross overs, but for the Moriarty this is the case.
Men get shat on when it comes to devour and child custody.
And Women generally get less jail time than men for the same crimes.
So all in all I think the equal rights thing is done and does not need to go further, Well for the most part I feel it probably just needs to be balanced a bit to make it easier for the lesser downfalls on both sides.
Example Pay, More men take the dangerous, undesirable work and generally favour connivance over comforts. Women the opposite generally going for comfort, easy commute, benefits etc. over money. And guess what because of that men get paid more on average. Of cause this is very generalised and of cause you will give cross overs, but for the Moriarty this is the case.
Men get shat on when it comes to devour and child custody.
And Women generally get less jail time than men for the same crimes.
So all in all I think the equal rights thing is done and does not need to go further, Well for the most part I feel it probably just needs to be balanced a bit to make it easier for the lesser downfalls on both sides.
I dislike it, but I'm not most people and I suspect neither are you. The thing is, we've (as a community, at least), abandoned many fine words and as such have actually undermined the causes. The people on here are like "I don't want to be associated with THAT," and it helps divide people.PurePareidolia said:
Words do kind of matter, and this is one of those cases. If you're so scared that you retreat when someone says "feminist," they've won before they have to say anything.