Poll: Are you a feminist?

[Dense_Electric]

Absolutely not. Feminism claims to be about equality between the sexes, but if that were true, it should be called "equalism." "Feminism," on the other hand, implies some kind of superiority for women (whether or not any given feminist believes that or not). In the same way that I am not a masculinist, because I don't support special privileges for men, I am not a feminist, because I don't support special privileges for women.

I don't think the problem should be viewed as "making the sexes equal" - it should be "making sex irrelevant."

For example, imagine a physical fitness test is required for a job. Saying "the standards for men and women are the same" makes about as much sense as saying "the standard for blacks and whites are the same." The standards would merely be the same for everyone, there's no need to even make that distinction between the sexes by bringing it up.

 

[LostAlone]

There is a high misconception that there are multiple definitions to feminism but really there is only one. A feminist believes in equal rights of women and men

Feminism is not about equality for all, feminism is about womens rights and ONLY womens rights.

That would depends who you ask to be honest.

Certainly within academia most high profile people who self-identify as feminists have generally moved into the man-hating everything-is-rape form, mainly because its a LOT easier to get paid for being violently against an imagined problem than rationally opposed to a real one. This is generally the group who give feminists a bad name, being those who twist statistics (ensuring for example that vast amounts of money are spent on rape prevention programs in and around their universities where rapes are statistically the least likely to happen and not basically everywhere else) and scream very very loudly about things that make very little rational sense.

Most of the people who might in the past have been called feminists (when they were campaigning for the vote and to not be property) have moved sharply away from using it as a label, referring to themselves as egalitarians or libertarians, or sometimes Equity Feminists (as contrasted to the above 'Gender Feminists').

Most people outside of the academy who call themselves feminists generally identify with the latter group, mostly after equal pay for women, decent maternity cover and for society to stop trying to look down their top, all of which are reasonable enough.

As a whole, feminist, as a word is very very poorly understood, has been co-opted from the mainstream to the lunatic fringe and so if people call themselves one or not is largely irrelevant.

A better question is this: Do you support equality for people of all genders ?

Which everyone worth listening to answers yes to.

So congratulations, we're all feminsists. Or possibly not.

 

[LostAlone]

Now, that we've established that. Why do you suppose that women are so unhappy today?

Good rule: Never assume anything about what other people know.

That said, I couldn't tell you why women in particular are unhappy. Perhaps it's because they're overworked. Perhaps it's because they still have yet to find true equality in a male dominated society. Perhaps it's because one in four women will be raped in their lifetime. Perhaps it's because they are more likely than men to admit emotional or psychological trouble and seek advice and assistance for it. Perhaps it's all of those things. Perhaps it's none of them.

I'm absolutely positive it's not just one of them, though. It never is a single thing.

Of course, unless there are studies done to get to the why of these statistics, nobody will every really know for sure.

And that kinda missed my other point, which is that generalizations are usually bad.

I'd wager a decent amount that its because women are more likely to admit to being unhappy than men. Just a guess, but I'd shoot for that.

Also, while your whole post was generally pretty good.... Be REAL careful about using any statistics about rape. Put simply, none of the studies are accepted by everyone, falling into two catergories: A. Those who ask a number of questions and if you answer yes to certain ones they count you as having been raped. B. Those who ask women if they have been raped. Type A generates very very high numbers, type B much lower. And both types have massive vocal oppositions. Just... Just be careful about using any stats about it.

 

[Epona]

There is a high misconception that there are multiple definitions to feminism but really there is only one. A feminist believes in equal rights of women and men

Feminism is not about equality for all, feminism is about womens rights and ONLY womens rights.

That would depends who you ask to be honest.

Certainly within academia most high profile people who self-identify as feminists have generally moved into the man-hating everything-is-rape form, mainly because its a LOT easier to get paid for being violently against an imagined problem than rationally opposed to a real one. This is generally the group who give feminists a bad name, being those who twist statistics (ensuring for example that vast amounts of money are spent on rape prevention programs in and around their universities where rapes are statistically the least likely to happen and not basically everywhere else) and scream very very loudly about things that make very little rational sense.

Most of the people who might in the past have been called feminists (when they were campaigning for the vote and to not be property) have moved sharply away from using it as a label, referring to themselves as egalitarians or libertarians, or sometimes Equity Feminists (as contrasted to the above 'Gender Feminists').

Most people outside of the academy who call themselves feminists generally identify with the latter group, mostly after equal pay for women, decent maternity cover and for society to stop trying to look down their top, all of which are reasonable enough.

As a whole, feminist, as a word is very very poorly understood, has been co-opted from the mainstream to the lunatic fringe and so if people call themselves one or not is largely irrelevant.

A better question is this: Do you support equality for people of all genders ?

Which everyone worth listening to answers yes to.

So congratulations, we're all feminsists. Or possibly not.

The term feminist is one sided in itself. The actions of feminist organizations has shown them to be in it ONLY for the rights of women (as the name would imply). Maybe you can tell me when any feminist organization fought for equality for men? Family courts are biased against men, only men can be drafted, DV against men is not treated seriously, rape against men is not treated seriously, workplace deaths are much higher among men, etc..

There are so many areas where men are disadvantaged and not once have we seen feminists stand up for men.

They are for womens rights and womens rights alone.

 

[LostAlone]

There is a high misconception that there are multiple definitions to feminism but really there is only one. A feminist believes in equal rights of women and men

Feminism is not about equality for all, feminism is about womens rights and ONLY womens rights.

That would depends who you ask to be honest.

Certainly within academia most high profile people who self-identify as feminists have generally moved into the man-hating everything-is-rape form, mainly because its a LOT easier to get paid for being violently against an imagined problem than rationally opposed to a real one. This is generally the group who give feminists a bad name, being those who twist statistics (ensuring for example that vast amounts of money are spent on rape prevention programs in and around their universities where rapes are statistically the least likely to happen and not basically everywhere else) and scream very very loudly about things that make very little rational sense.

Most of the people who might in the past have been called feminists (when they were campaigning for the vote and to not be property) have moved sharply away from using it as a label, referring to themselves as egalitarians or libertarians, or sometimes Equity Feminists (as contrasted to the above 'Gender Feminists').

Most people outside of the academy who call themselves feminists generally identify with the latter group, mostly after equal pay for women, decent maternity cover and for society to stop trying to look down their top, all of which are reasonable enough.

As a whole, feminist, as a word is very very poorly understood, has been co-opted from the mainstream to the lunatic fringe and so if people call themselves one or not is largely irrelevant.

A better question is this: Do you support equality for people of all genders ?

Which everyone worth listening to answers yes to.

So congratulations, we're all feminsists. Or possibly not.

The term feminist is one sided in itself. The actions of feminist organizations has shown them to be in it ONLY for the rights of women (as the name would imply). Maybe you can tell me when any feminist organization fought for equality for men? Family courts are biased against men, only men can be drafted, DV against men is not treated seriously, rape against men is not treated seriously, workplace deaths are much higher among men, etc..

There are so many areas where men are disadvantaged and not once have we seen feminists stand up for men.

They are for womens rights and womens rights alone.

Well again, it depends on what groups you look at. The gender-oriented feminists certainly never would stand up for men pretty much on principal that they deserve whatever they get. On the other hand very many libertarian and egalitarian groups have stood along side grous campaigning for fairness, because its kind of their thing to seek fairnesss in the law. But those people wouldn't call themselves feminists. But a lot of normal people would.

 

[moopig66]

No, no you don't believe in equal rights, and don't insult my intelligence by asserting that you do in any way. Your pathetic, your not concerned about anyone other than yourself and how much attention you get from society. You pretend to be outraged by the abuse of men, an action that's so uncommon, so easily disputable by any journal or scientific inquiry, but your outrage is a last ditch cry for attention as you man babies whine your last days away as the ones on top, and we enter a world where true equality exists.

Please, don't you dare insult my ipntelagince with that pack of passive aggressive lies.

Awww, i worked hard on that short story, it took lots of time! Had to get all the imagery right.
Oh, and i did, im sad for her, something sad happened to her at some point and now shes all sad. Sadness is never good.

Oh, and respect, respect is something i reserve for those who earn it. You, you get nothing of the sort. You are the lowest common denominator in our culture at the moment, you will be remembered along side the likes of slave holders and KKK members come 2100. I would write a lengthy excerpt from a future textbook, but no one would appreciate it... sad

Ooh, i like that.

Me, alone in the night, adorned in a black silk cape and hood. A knife rests in my hand, hidden from the moons light beneath my cape. I stock a nearby bar, watching, waiting. A women walks out from the depths of the dank bar into the misty night that blankets the street. Her walk is awkward, her demeanor is intoxicated. Behind her walks a gentleman adorned in his most generic of white wife-beaters. His hand grasps her breast. POW! She smacks him across the jaw with her half broken purse, makeup containers shower the street. She walks off, angry and drunk.

The man stumbles toward the curb to tend to his wounds, empty beer bottle in hand, his eyes red, is speech slurred. He mumbles softly to himself for a moment whereupon he realizes that a cloaked presence has perched itself behind him. In one foul, murderous motion, the figure, the figure that is i, plunges his knife deep, deep into the mans heart from behind. Blood spills forth from the wound, splattering the still rolling containers of makeup. I pull my knife slowly from the newly formed cavity in the mans back. He falls, face first, into his victims long forgotten belongings. Lipstick intermingled with blood, blood intermingled with eye-shadow.

"wha-" the man moans

"vengeance..." i say softly to my latest victim, "... vengeance"

Written by Moopig66, story and characters by Moopig66, edited by Micheal Bay for some reason

And that makes misandry okay because? Are you one of these vengeance feminists?

if you read that rant posted by father time, it's basically her fantasy.

And mocking is also not a good way to show respect. Problem with many feminists, don't practice what they preach.

classy, comparing me to the KKK, I think Godwin's law needs an expansion. I am nothing of the sort by the way, I support equal rights. Yes for women too, but also for men. I don't exclude gays or anyone else for that matter.

Unlike you, who go out of your way to exclude male victims of violence perpetrated by women, only because it doesn't fit with your narrative.

 

[Epona]

There is a high misconception that there are multiple definitions to feminism but really there is only one. A feminist believes in equal rights of women and men

Feminism is not about equality for all, feminism is about womens rights and ONLY womens rights.

That would depends who you ask to be honest.

Certainly within academia most high profile people who self-identify as feminists have generally moved into the man-hating everything-is-rape form, mainly because its a LOT easier to get paid for being violently against an imagined problem than rationally opposed to a real one. This is generally the group who give feminists a bad name, being those who twist statistics (ensuring for example that vast amounts of money are spent on rape prevention programs in and around their universities where rapes are statistically the least likely to happen and not basically everywhere else) and scream very very loudly about things that make very little rational sense.

Most of the people who might in the past have been called feminists (when they were campaigning for the vote and to not be property) have moved sharply away from using it as a label, referring to themselves as egalitarians or libertarians, or sometimes Equity Feminists (as contrasted to the above 'Gender Feminists').

Most people outside of the academy who call themselves feminists generally identify with the latter group, mostly after equal pay for women, decent maternity cover and for society to stop trying to look down their top, all of which are reasonable enough.

As a whole, feminist, as a word is very very poorly understood, has been co-opted from the mainstream to the lunatic fringe and so if people call themselves one or not is largely irrelevant.

A better question is this: Do you support equality for people of all genders ?

Which everyone worth listening to answers yes to.

So congratulations, we're all feminsists. Or possibly not.

The term feminist is one sided in itself. The actions of feminist organizations has shown them to be in it ONLY for the rights of women (as the name would imply). Maybe you can tell me when any feminist organization fought for equality for men? Family courts are biased against men, only men can be drafted, DV against men is not treated seriously, rape against men is not treated seriously, workplace deaths are much higher among men, etc..

There are so many areas where men are disadvantaged and not once have we seen feminists stand up for men.

They are for womens rights and womens rights alone.

Well again, it depends on what groups you look at. The gender-oriented feminists certainly never would stand up for men pretty much on principal that they deserve whatever they get. On the other hand very many libertarian and egalitarian groups have stood along side grous campaigning for fairness, because its kind of their thing to seek fairnesss in the law. But those people wouldn't call themselves feminists. But a lot of normal people would.

So let me get this straight.

Those who call themselves feminists would never stand up for men and those who do stand up for the rights of men would never call themselves feminists yet you want to call them feminists? Why?

 

[Epona]

Now, that we've established that. Why do you suppose that women are so unhappy today?

Good rule: Never assume anything about what other people know.

That said, I couldn't tell you why women in particular are unhappy. Perhaps it's because they're overworked. Perhaps it's because they still have yet to find true equality in a male dominated society. Perhaps it's because one in four women will be raped in their lifetime. Perhaps it's because they are more likely than men to admit emotional or psychological trouble and seek advice and assistance for it. Perhaps it's all of those things. Perhaps it's none of them.

I'm absolutely positive it's not just one of them, though. It never is a single thing.

Of course, unless there are studies done to get to the why of these statistics, nobody will every really know for sure.

And that kinda missed my other point, which is that generalizations are usually bad.

I'd wager a decent amount that its because women are more likely to admit to being unhappy than men. Just a guess, but I'd shoot for that.

Also, while your whole post was generally pretty good.... Be REAL careful about using any statistics about rape. Put simply, none of the studies are accepted by everyone, falling into two catergories: A. Those who ask a number of questions and if you answer yes to certain ones they count you as having been raped. B. Those who ask women if they have been raped. Type A generates very very high numbers, type B much lower. And both types have massive vocal oppositions. Just... Just be careful about using any stats about it.

You are right about the stats, pretty sure those 1 in 4 stats were debunked years ago but I could be wrong. Just curious, are these 1 in 4 rape stats based on convictions, accusations or just plain questionnaires?

It could be under reported by men but I don't think that's the whole story. I think women today are less happy than their mothers and grandmothers. I bet that if we looked back, a lower percentage of women took anti-depressants 20+ years ago.

 

[Kraj]

Are you a feminist?

Feminism
noun
[mass noun]
the advocacy of women?s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/feminism?q=feminism

Definition of feminist
noun
a person who supports feminism.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/feminist

If yes, then have you done anything active to advocate the equality of women's rights?

Incidentally, I am not asking why/why not you are/are not a feminist; that topic has been overdone already.

I generally ascribe to philosophical egalitarianism. Theoretical Equality among all living entities, though you could say specifically I am comfortable with the idea of progressivism, legal, economic, gender, and racial egalitarianism.

 

[Naeras]

Women are not very happy today going by the number of women on anti-depressants. I think it would be an interesting conversation to explore the reason why.

In all seriousness, though, unless women are more depressed on average than men I don't think you can tie that to any particular gender issue.

I thought this was common knowledge but:

The study also found that women are two and a half times more likely to take antidepressant medication as males, while 23 percent of women ages 40 to 59 take antidepressants, more than in any other age or sex group.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/10/25/antidepressant-use-up-400-percent-in-us/30677.html

Don't like that link? Here's another:

Women are about twice as likely as men to develop major depression. They also have higher rates of seasonal affective disorder, depressive symptoms in bipolar disorder, and dysthymia (chronic depression).

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Mental_Health_Letter/2011/May/women-and-depression

Now, that we've established that. Why do you suppose that women are so unhappy today?

Just because I'm too lazy to check this out myself: how are these numbers in historical context? Is there any correlation between gender issues and depression?

Because if there's no historical context for those numbers, any correlation here is pure speculation. Those number could just as well be a result of, say, the biological differences between men and women, or simply better research and knowledge about the subject of depression, as well as there being less stigma on the subject of depression.

 

[Victoly]

I don't identify as feminist because the word holds lots of different connotations depending on whom you ask, and I believe I shouldn't have to specify that I want the sexes to be equal. It should be the default position.

Wow, what an asinine response. It's not that way, so what does it matter how things should be? Believing in equal rights is, quite sadly, not the default.

"I shouldn't have to specify that I'm not a racist, because there shouldn't be racism, so instead I identify as a racist."

What the fuck?

 

[Epona]

Women are not very happy today going by the number of women on anti-depressants. I think it would be an interesting conversation to explore the reason why.

In all seriousness, though, unless women are more depressed on average than men I don't think you can tie that to any particular gender issue.

I thought this was common knowledge but:

The study also found that women are two and a half times more likely to take antidepressant medication as males, while 23 percent of women ages 40 to 59 take antidepressants, more than in any other age or sex group.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/10/25/antidepressant-use-up-400-percent-in-us/30677.html

Don't like that link? Here's another:

Women are about twice as likely as men to develop major depression. They also have higher rates of seasonal affective disorder, depressive symptoms in bipolar disorder, and dysthymia (chronic depression).

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Mental_Health_Letter/2011/May/women-and-depression

Now, that we've established that. Why do you suppose that women are so unhappy today?

Just because I'm too lazy to check this out myself: how are these numbers in historical context? Is there any correlation between gender issues and depression?

Because if there's no historical context for those numbers, any correlation here is pure speculation. Those number could just as well be a result of, say, the biological differences between men and women, or simply better research and knowledge about the subject of depression, as well as there being less stigma on the subject of depression.

It isn't speculation that women take anti-depressants two and half times more than men. I don't have the historical figures either but that's no reason to dismiss the above.

 

[acey195]

Men and women have(or should have) the same rights, but I don't like women to try be the same as men, see my point. Men and women are not the same, we are both good at our own things, call me traditional if you like

 

[Naeras]

Women are not very happy today going by the number of women on anti-depressants. I think it would be an interesting conversation to explore the reason why.

In all seriousness, though, unless women are more depressed on average than men I don't think you can tie that to any particular gender issue.

I thought this was common knowledge but:

The study also found that women are two and a half times more likely to take antidepressant medication as males, while 23 percent of women ages 40 to 59 take antidepressants, more than in any other age or sex group.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/10/25/antidepressant-use-up-400-percent-in-us/30677.html

Don't like that link? Here's another:

Women are about twice as likely as men to develop major depression. They also have higher rates of seasonal affective disorder, depressive symptoms in bipolar disorder, and dysthymia (chronic depression).

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Mental_Health_Letter/2011/May/women-and-depression

Now, that we've established that. Why do you suppose that women are so unhappy today?

Just because I'm too lazy to check this out myself: how are these numbers in historical context? Is there any correlation between gender issues and depression?

Because if there's no historical context for those numbers, any correlation here is pure speculation. Those number could just as well be a result of, say, the biological differences between men and women, or simply better research and knowledge about the subject of depression, as well as there being less stigma on the subject of depression.

It isn't speculation that women take anti-depressants two and half times more than men. I don't have the historical figures either but that's no reason to dismiss the above.

The amount of anti-depressants they take isn't speculation, no. But why the amounts are so high is pure speculation without context.

 

[Epona]

Women are not very happy today going by the number of women on anti-depressants. I think it would be an interesting conversation to explore the reason why.

In all seriousness, though, unless women are more depressed on average than men I don't think you can tie that to any particular gender issue.

I thought this was common knowledge but:

The study also found that women are two and a half times more likely to take antidepressant medication as males, while 23 percent of women ages 40 to 59 take antidepressants, more than in any other age or sex group.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/10/25/antidepressant-use-up-400-percent-in-us/30677.html

Don't like that link? Here's another:

Women are about twice as likely as men to develop major depression. They also have higher rates of seasonal affective disorder, depressive symptoms in bipolar disorder, and dysthymia (chronic depression).

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Mental_Health_Letter/2011/May/women-and-depression

Now, that we've established that. Why do you suppose that women are so unhappy today?

Just because I'm too lazy to check this out myself: how are these numbers in historical context? Is there any correlation between gender issues and depression?

Because if there's no historical context for those numbers, any correlation here is pure speculation. Those number could just as well be a result of, say, the biological differences between men and women, or simply better research and knowledge about the subject of depression, as well as there being less stigma on the subject of depression.

It isn't speculation that women take anti-depressants two and half times more than men. I don't have the historical figures either but that's no reason to dismiss the above.

The amount of anti-depressants they take isn't speculation, no. But why the amounts are so high is pure speculation without context.

The amount they take compared to men IS the context.

I'll rephrase my question, why do you suppose women are more depressed than men in 2012?

Holy shit, I just realized that the article I linked earlier specifically says that anti-depressant use is up 400% since 1988 (which is 24 years ago). So there you go, usage is up by 400%.

 

[Evilpigeon]

"I shouldn't have to specify that I'm not a racist, because there shouldn't be racism, so instead I identify as a racist."

What the fuck?

Binary thinking at its best.

IF YOU DONT WANT TO BE ONE OF US YOU MUST BE ONE OF THEM!

Seriously?

 

[RafaelNegrus]

By western standards I'm not a feminist. The whole notion of the patriarchy doesn't sit well with me, and without believing that then you're not really in the club so to speak. (I don't like how incredibly vague it is, also it feels like it treats men as a group as a singular actor, which is obviously not true just as women as a whole aren't a singular actor.)

I'm all for equal rights, but feminism is about so much more than that now, very much cultural issues pertaining to how women are presented etc. And as long as this is talked about in generalities than I'm rather on the bench.

Also, little bit off topic but some people brought it up; I've done some research on the wage gap, and controlling for education, career, and experience, the main cause of the wage gap is that men negotiate their salary more aggressively than women do, ad so they get paid subsequently more.