Poll: Are you a feminist?

[Epona]

Reading through a lot of these posts it seems that quite a few people are confusing the distinction between a feminist and an egalitarian. To my mind a feminist by very definition has an egalitarian view but they are actively going out (e.g. campaigning) in support of women. I always thought of feminism being something you have to actively involve yourself in, not just passively hold a view.

If they had an egalitarian view, why would they only actively campaign for womens rights? Don't actions speak louder than words?

Because as it stands we should be more concerned about women overall since they are, in general, losing out more than men. Once that's sorted we can turn our attention more fully to men.

BS!

It has been listed many times in this thread how men are getting the short end of the stick but you won't even acknowledge any of it

You talk about genital mutilation but you don't care that thousands of newborn boys are genitally mutilated daily in the US and other western nations.

We have been more concerned about women overall since the beginning of time, it's why men go off to fight the wars, men are disposable. It's why men work in all the dangerous jobs, men are disposable.

Look around you both men and women have always put women first. It's always been women and children first, men last.

After considering the evidence, I respectfully disagree with you.

On what grounds?

On the grounds that the evidence would seem to suggest you are, in fact, wrong.

No I'm not. Women and children have always been first and men last. I really don't see how anyone, even a feminist, could deny that.

 

[Jordan O'Hagan]

what's wrong with just treating someone nice and with equal respect without having to put a label on it?

 

[Moth_Monk]

Reading through a lot of these posts it seems that quite a few people are confusing the distinction between a feminist and an egalitarian. To my mind a feminist by very definition has an egalitarian view but they are actively going out (e.g. campaigning) in support of women. I always thought of feminism being something you have to actively involve yourself in, not just passively hold a view.

If they had an egalitarian view, why would they only actively campaign for womens rights? Don't actions speak louder than words?

Because as it stands we should be more concerned about women overall since they are, in general, losing out more than men. Once that's sorted we can turn our attention more fully to men.

BS!

It has been listed many times in this thread how men are getting the short end of the stick but you won't even acknowledge any of it

You talk about genital mutilation but you don't care that thousands of newborn boys are genitally mutilated daily in the US and other western nations.

We have been more concerned about women overall since the beginning of time, it's why men go off to fight the wars, men are disposable. It's why men work in all the dangerous jobs, men are disposable.

Look around you both men and women have always put women first. It's always been women and children first, men last.

After considering the evidence, I respectfully disagree with you.

On what grounds?

On the grounds that the evidence would seem to suggest you are, in fact, wrong.

No I'm not. Women and children have always been first and men last. I really don't see how anyone, even a feminist, could deny that.

I deny it. While men may have had to handle the dirty work, men have also traditionally also had opportunities that society has denied women. For example there was a time when women were not allowed to teach, be doctors, academics or anything like that. The only reason men have been left to do all of those "harder" jobs is because society has assumed women are incapable of, for example, fighting in war.

 

[Durgiun]

I do not identify as a feminist. Mainly because there are so many branches of it and in my mind feminism is really just a bunch of up-tight prudes trying to kill everyone's fun. And I don't mean ''stopping men from pinching women's asses'', I mean ''trying to stop me from watching porn''. I could go on a diatribe that would rival a George R. R. Martin novel in length, but I will show mercy (and wisdom) and spare you all from that potential flame war.

So you have nothing to say regarding the stoning to death of women in some countries or the mutilation of women's genitals in some other countries then?

Where in the hell did this come from?

haven't you heard?

If you're not a feminist, you're a misogynist holocaust denying KKK clansmen who is indoctrinated by the extreme right and the patriarchy.

And yes, that's almost verbatim what I've been called in this thread by a few colourful individuals.

Oh right, I was under the massive psychotic delusion that we're free of that line of thought on the Escapist. My mistake.

I apologise. I did not say that you supported the horrible mistreatment of women, I was merely trying to point out your generalisation of all feminists ("up tight prudes") by drawing attention to the fact that most feminists are concerned with more serious issues than pornography.
You see the generalisation that you seemed to be suggesting made it seem like you misunderstood the real feminist agenda.

Oh, sorry.

The reason why I view feminists as uptight prudes is because I've been hearing people like Gail Dines spread their views about how all porn is degrading no matter what, and apparently it's picking up speed from what I've seen so I guess I just thought that that is the most popular and numerous branch of feminism today. And that's not even getting into the subspecies of the anti-porn feminists that think that all men are born rapists.

''The real feminist agenda''. What IS the real feminist agenda? I think it's changed from ''equal rights for women'' to... Whatever the hell someone wants it to be now. I think the most popular today is ''porn is degrading, dehumanizing, debasing to women''.

 

[Epona]

Reading through a lot of these posts it seems that quite a few people are confusing the distinction between a feminist and an egalitarian. To my mind a feminist by very definition has an egalitarian view but they are actively going out (e.g. campaigning) in support of women. I always thought of feminism being something you have to actively involve yourself in, not just passively hold a view.

If they had an egalitarian view, why would they only actively campaign for womens rights? Don't actions speak louder than words?

Because as it stands we should be more concerned about women overall since they are, in general, losing out more than men. Once that's sorted we can turn our attention more fully to men.

BS!

It has been listed many times in this thread how men are getting the short end of the stick but you won't even acknowledge any of it

You talk about genital mutilation but you don't care that thousands of newborn boys are genitally mutilated daily in the US and other western nations.

We have been more concerned about women overall since the beginning of time, it's why men go off to fight the wars, men are disposable. It's why men work in all the dangerous jobs, men are disposable.

Look around you both men and women have always put women first. It's always been women and children first, men last.

After considering the evidence, I respectfully disagree with you.

On what grounds?

On the grounds that the evidence would seem to suggest you are, in fact, wrong.

No I'm not. Women and children have always been first and men last. I really don't see how anyone, even a feminist, could deny that.

I deny it. While men may have had to handle the dirty work, men have also traditionally also had opportunities that society has denied women. For example there was a time when women were not allowed to teach, be doctors, academics or anything like that. The only reason men have been left to do all of those "harder" jobs is because society has assumed women are incapable of, for example, fighting in war.

I have some doubt that these were restricted as much as you say but even so, would you rather had been sent to war, to work in the mines, to always be put last in life and death situations?

Seriously, not being able to teach doesn't hold a candle to being considered disposable. Men have always put women before themselves. It's BS that women have used that to their advantage and are now portraying honest, hard working men from the past and present as the enemy.

 

[Epona]

I do not identify as a feminist. Mainly because there are so many branches of it and in my mind feminism is really just a bunch of up-tight prudes trying to kill everyone's fun. And I don't mean ''stopping men from pinching women's asses'', I mean ''trying to stop me from watching porn''. I could go on a diatribe that would rival a George R. R. Martin novel in length, but I will show mercy (and wisdom) and spare you all from that potential flame war.

So you have nothing to say regarding the stoning to death of women in some countries or the mutilation of women's genitals in some other countries then?

Where in the hell did this come from?

haven't you heard?

If you're not a feminist, you're a misogynist holocaust denying KKK clansmen who is indoctrinated by the extreme right and the patriarchy.

And yes, that's almost verbatim what I've been called in this thread by a few colourful individuals.

Oh right, I was under the massive psychotic delusion that we're free of that line of thought on the Escapist. My mistake.

I apologise. I did not say that you supported the horrible mistreatment of women, I was merely trying to point out your generalisation of all feminists ("up tight prudes") by drawing attention to the fact that most feminists are concerned with more serious issues than pornography.
You see the generalisation that you seemed to be suggesting made it seem like you misunderstood the real feminist agenda.

Oh, sorry.

The reason why I view feminists as uptight prudes is because I've been hearing people like Gail Dines spread their views about how all porn is degrading no matter what, and apparently it's picking up speed from what I've seen so I guess I just thought that that is the most popular and numerous branch of feminism today. And that's not even getting into the subspecies of the anti-porn feminists that think that all men are born rapists.

''The real feminist agenda''. What IS the real feminist agenda? I think it's changed from ''equal rights for women'' to... Whatever the hell someone wants it to be now. I think the most popular today is ''porn is degrading, dehumanizing, debasing to women''.

They care more about female genital mutilation in other countries than they do about male genital mutilation in their own countries. Even if they have sons themselves. It makes me sick to see mothers treat their own sons like potential rapists.

 

[Moth_Monk]

I have some doubt that these were restricted as much as you say but even so, would you rather had been sent to war, to work in the mines, to always be put last in life and death situations?

Seriously, not being able to teach doesn't hold a candle to being considered disposable.

Males aren't considered disposable they're (incorrectly) considered more equipped to do everything better (from being a soldier to working in a mine to working as a teacher) than women.

Besides who are you saying men are considered disposable by when society is mostly dominated by men?

 

[Epona]

I have some doubt that these were restricted as much as you say but even so, would you rather had been sent to war, to work in the mines, to always be put last in life and death situations?

Seriously, not being able to teach doesn't hold a candle to being considered disposable.

Males aren't considered disposable they're (incorrectly) considered more equipped to do everything better (from being a soldier to working in a mine to working as a teacher) than women.

Besides who are you saying men are considered disposable by when society is mostly dominated by men?

Men are considered disposable, you are fooling yourself if you can't see that. The reason men were SENT off to war and women were not is because women have babies. Women and children first when a ship sinks, when there is a fire, when there is any life and death situation.

Don't pretend you can't see that.

 

[ElPatron]

"the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes."

So if I am not a feminist, I have to be against woman's rights?

Talk about "You're with me or with them" mentality. Be right back, I'll join the Black Panthers to avoid being called a racist.

what's wrong with just treating someone nice and with equal respect without having to put a label on it?

Apparently you can't do that or you won't receive Karma points nor respect from your peers.

 

[Belated]

I'm absolutely for equal rights, but what really defines a "feminist" has become so gray lately. I consider myself a TRUE "feminist", but a lot of people assume all feminists are feminazis. And "feminazi" isn't really an offensive term, as long as you know what defines one. It gets offensive when you use it to refer to legitimate feminists. So let me try to explain the differences:

Spoiler: Feminists vs Feminazis

-A feminist believes a woman should choose whether she wants to wear a bikini or not, based on her own feelings rather than society's.

*A feminazi wants to end bikinis forever and take them out of circulation. Also, no woman should ever shave her legs again.

-A feminist believes a woman should choose whether or not she wants to live as a housewife, based on her own preference regardless of society. And also thinks men should have the option to be house husbands.

*A feminazi never wants to see another woman be a housewife again, even if that's genuinely what she wants to do. All women on earth must have careers!

-A feminist thinks the best way to solve sexism in video games is to have more games about strong female leads, and possibly more games with shirtless handsome men to provide that sex appeal for women.

*A feminazi thinks the best way to solve sexism in video games is to stop making games that have sexy women in them, period! Because fantasizing is unnatural and "harmful" somehow! All ladies must have A-cups and be dressed in parkas.

-A feminist thinks Katness made an awesome, strong female lead in The Hunger Games. She can survive on her own without needing the help of a man. In fact, a man needed HER help.

*A feminazi thinks Katness was a terrible lead. How DARE she look so attractive in the movie! Attractive people have no right to exist, even if they were born that way. And why was there romantic tension between her and the boy? How DARE she respond to her natural impulses that evolution gave her!?

Based on the differentiation I'm trying to make with these examples, I consider myself a feminist. (And yes, feminazis under the above definitions DO exist.) I'm for equal rights, but I'm also for free choice. If you want to stay at home while your partner works, you should have that option whether you're a woman or a man. If you want to be a stripper, you should have that option whether you're a woman or a man. If you want to look at porn, you should have that option whether you're a woman or a man. But women should also be paid the same as men, and their opinions should be heard just as much as the opinions of men.

 

[Moth_Monk]

I have some doubt that these were restricted as much as you say but even so, would you rather had been sent to war, to work in the mines, to always be put last in life and death situations?

Seriously, not being able to teach doesn't hold a candle to being considered disposable.

Males aren't considered disposable they're (incorrectly) considered more equipped to do everything better (from being a soldier to working in a mine to working as a teacher) than women.

Besides who are you saying men are considered disposable by when society is mostly dominated by men?

Men are considered disposable, you are fooling yourself if you can't see that. The reason men were SENT off to war and women were not is because women have babies. Women and children first when a ship sinks, when there is a fire, when there is any life and death situation.

Don't pretend you can't see that.

It's a good thing that children and women are "preserved" otherwise you'd run the risk of extinction. We need women to carry on the species, arguably more so than men. Why is this? Because women are able to feed newborns while we men are incapable of doing so.

 

[Epona]

I have some doubt that these were restricted as much as you say but even so, would you rather had been sent to war, to work in the mines, to always be put last in life and death situations?

Seriously, not being able to teach doesn't hold a candle to being considered disposable.

Males aren't considered disposable they're (incorrectly) considered more equipped to do everything better (from being a soldier to working in a mine to working as a teacher) than women.

Besides who are you saying men are considered disposable by when society is mostly dominated by men?

Men are considered disposable, you are fooling yourself if you can't see that. The reason men were SENT off to war and women were not is because women have babies. Women and children first when a ship sinks, when there is a fire, when there is any life and death situation.

Don't pretend you can't see that.

It's a good thing that children and women are "preserved" otherwise you'd run the risk of extinction. We need women to carry on the species, arguably more so than men. Why is this? Because women are able to feed newborns while we men are incapable of doing so.

So you do see it.

I can see the logic just as you can. I simply want people to see that men have always put women before themselves. Modern feminism would have us believe that men imprisoned women and raped them constantly until the feminist movement came along.

 

[Moth_Monk]

Modern feminism would have us believe that men imprisoned women and raped them constantly until the feminist movement came along.

...No.

What you are probably referring to is a vocal minority that are bringing bad press on all of the the feminists that are trying to get the serious stuff done.

"Modern Feminism" is what's known as Third Wave Feminism [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-wave_feminism] and claims nothing even resembling your claim.

 

[Epona]

Modern feminism would have us believe that men imprisoned women and raped them constantly until the feminist movement came along.

...No.

What you are probably referring to is a vocal minority that are bringing bad press on all of the the feminists that are trying to get the serious stuff done.

"Modern Feminism" is what's known as Third Wave Feminism [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-wave_feminism] and claims nothing even resembling your claim.

Serious stuff done? Anything to help men gain equality listed in that serious stuff?

 

[Legendairy314]

I'm all for equality but only if it actually means equality. This basically comes into play with that darn double standard and who should do what when where and how. Too many examples but I will say this: Physical limitations aside our 2 sexes are far too similar to reasonably divide them in a way that only furthers the cause of old and decrepit thinking.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

There is nothing inherently wrong with the Y chromosome, and no feminist thinks that there is, no matter what some Conservative blogger pushes.

Valerie Solanas wasn't a conservative blogger, and she did feel that way.

And ya there have been a few "feminists" who have said that all men are evil. but they arnt feminists, their wrong.

Using the no-true-scotsman fallacy I see.

 

[BamWam]

I find that it has almost turned around, as I find that if you point out that a woman is a woman, that sexist. But if you do the same for a guy, it's fine. I'm not saying that it's equal, just that the topic is flogged so much.

 

[Epona]

I find that it has almost turned around, as I find that if you point out that a woman is a woman, that sexist. But if you do the same for a guy, it's fine. I'm not saying that it's equal, just that the topic is flogged so much.

The list of double standards is long.

 

[Moth_Monk]

Modern feminism would have us believe that men imprisoned women and raped them constantly until the feminist movement came along.

...No.

What you are probably referring to is a vocal minority that are bringing bad press on all of the the feminists that are trying to get the serious stuff done.

"Modern Feminism" is what's known as Third Wave Feminism [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-wave_feminism] and claims nothing even resembling your claim.

Serious stuff done? Anything to help men gain equality listed in that serious stuff?

Feminism is the advocacy of equal rights for women. So that would be a major non-sequitur.