Poll: Are you a feminist?

[maninahat]

gender quotas

Depends on what the quota's for, of course, but at least in American admissions men are a larger beneficiary of gender quotas than women. The female applicant pool is larger than the male applicant pool.

let me tell you what happens in rest of the world:
Boss opens small company, he needs 10 good workers.
20 men and 20 women come for job.
In boss puts them by qualification in hiring line.
He wants to take 8 men and 2 women - others are less qualified.
Gender quota says: "Thou shall have half of your workers female if your job is not coal mining or toxic waste disposal"
Boss drops 3 men that was more qualified for job and takes 3 women that were less qualified.
Company doesn't work as well because of workers not having best possible qualifications.
But! Lets say that qualification line was different!
What If all women were more qualified than men?
So boss wants to hire 10 women.
Gender quota says: " Well chosen"..
Yah, EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES AND RIGHTS... Thank you feminism.

Well, I actually agree with you that quotas are basically a band-aid for a larger structural problem (i.e., the unofficial quotas in management/boardrooms/etc). But pretending that women are the sole beneficiary of gender quotas is an over-simplification, too - the effects of the quota depend on the applicant pool for whatever the quota's for.

Ignoring the fact that explicit quotas are illegal, or that there is no regulation that requires people to take on less qualified folk for "equality's sake", there is a further complication to the issue of affirmative action:

Suppose there are ten applicants for one job position, and only one of the applicants is female. She is one of two best applicants, being just as qualified for the role as the best man. Now suppose the employer, having to pick between these two, applies his own hidden quota and hires the woman. All 9 men are going to go home, thinking they had been treated unfairly by this affirmative action policy. The reality is that technically, only one of those male applicants was discriminated against. As there was only one position, 9 people were not going to get the job anyway. But that doesn't change the fact that they will all feel equally mistreated. It's one subtlety which greatly exhaggerates the issue (by a factor of nine, in this case).

 

[DeleteThisAcc]

I don't "mind" transvestites as long as they don't lie and hunt for mates. If you are transvestite and going to date someone - tell them "what" you are. (and " oh they are born that way" is BS. Really? Man that had wife and children and was cool all around suddenly decides that he is a woman?)

I've got a better idea. Why don't we, as a society, stop trying to micromanage the clothing and gender identification of people in our society? You know, treat people like people, even if they *gasp* don't conform to 19th century American/European gender norms?

or even better - why don't we stop *gasp* lying? Oh wait, that would kill feminism, prevent transvestites from ruining peoples lives (some transvestite kinda screwed someones I know life)

When I tell you I'm a woman (I'm a transgender woman), I'm not "lying", I'm telling you the truth. Why shouldn't it be your responsibility to tell all your partners that you don't like transgender people?

If someone doesn't like bisexuals, and dates a bisexual without knowing it, is the bisexual a liar for not telling them they were a bisexual?

"When I tell you I'm a woman (I'm a transgender woman), I'm not "lying"," technically you are lying. Or you could just say that you used to be man. You are hiding important information from someone. Or just say "transgender woman". Is it so hard to pronounce? Also this tread is about feminism - PM me if you want discuss this, not here.

 

[Stublore]

I voted no.
I'd rather treat everyone the same, maybe add an option for Egalitarian?

 

[orangeban]

I don't "mind" transvestites as long as they don't lie and hunt for mates. If you are transvestite and going to date someone - tell them "what" you are. (and " oh they are born that way" is BS. Really? Man that had wife and children and was cool all around suddenly decides that he is a woman?)

I've got a better idea. Why don't we, as a society, stop trying to micromanage the clothing and gender identification of people in our society? You know, treat people like people, even if they *gasp* don't conform to 19th century American/European gender norms?

or even better - why don't we stop *gasp* lying? Oh wait, that would kill feminism, prevent transvestites from ruining peoples lives (some transvestite kinda screwed someones I know life)

When I tell you I'm a woman (I'm a transgender woman), I'm not "lying", I'm telling you the truth. Why shouldn't it be your responsibility to tell all your partners that you don't like transgender people?

If someone doesn't like bisexuals, and dates a bisexual without knowing it, is the bisexual a liar for not telling them they were a bisexual?

"When I tell you I'm a woman (I'm a transgender woman), I'm not "lying"," technically you are lying. Or you could just say that you used to be man. You are hiding important information from someone. Or just say "transgender woman". Is it so hard to pronounce? Also this tread is about feminism - PM me if you want discuss this, not here.

Nah, it's alright, I can't be bothered, I've danced this tango a few to many time.

 

[zehydra]

Feminism is a broken term. I advocate political equality of the sexes, nothing more.

 

[lacktheknack]

No more than I am a masculist.

I advocate equal opportunity in all non-biological things, which advocates expansion of men's rights just as much as women's rights.

So I guess "Kinda"?

 

[Kahunaburger]

But I'm bored and poking the trolls is fun!

Cosigned.

Also I would like to know why "female applicant pool is larger than the male applicant pool for college admissions in the states" and what feminist is going to do about that.

This is a very good question. There's currently an achievement gap between girls and boys in America's school system. There's no one answer as to why this is the case, but I strongly suspect part of it is the gender gap in teaching. Which, in turn, goes right back to the problem our society has re: gender roles being a thing that exists in the information age.

 

[DeleteThisAcc]

snip

snip

Oh good gravy it's happened.

I implore you two, do not get into this.

That way madness lies. Madness and moderation.

But I'm bored and poking the trolls is fun!

Oh so I am troll? Isn't the one "poking" supposed to be troll?

Anyway - youtube girlwriteswhat if you want to know more about feminism.

since having opinion and knowing what happens around is "trolling" then good luck, I am out of here.

 

[Steve Waltz]

It's actually very true that young children are brought up with different sets of social paragdigms based upon gender and that these paradigms often have long term consequences - physics and engineering courses at universities tend to be pretty lacking in female applicants for example. It'd be nigh impossible to say for certain to what extent this gap is due to women on average being mentally predisposed towards other sorts of subjects and how much is caused by social pressure to avoid these subjects however it'd be very naive to argue that people's upbringing doesn't affect affect them at all.

Hold please.

Absolutely right, but like I mentioned in my second paragraph, these complaints sound trivial and selfish when Feminists only focus on women. Those males taking physics and engineering courses might not be taking those courses if they were playing with Barbies or watching Hanna Montana at a young age. It is selfish to only focus on the fact that being segregated at birth only affects women, when it actually affects both genders. And that's what makes it feel like silly complaints that many people (like myself) cannot take seriously.

THAT was the point of my post. I said I completely support equal rights and I would love to see the day when babies are treated as equals and having both boys and girls playing with G.I Joes and Barbies together, but I would NEVER sacrifice or favor one over the other like feminists do.

 

[Moth_Monk]

It's interesting to see that the most common reason given by no-voters is that the term "feminist" has the misfortune of negative connotations attached to the word. Of course there is the argument that can be made in opposition to this that if more people stood up and "reclaimed" the word via indetification it would lose these negative connotations and so mysoginists would no longer be able to use "straw feminist" arguments (i.e all feminists hate men/feminists think women are the superior sex) to attempt to support their disgusting world view.

A side point to throw to people who see themselves as egalitarians is this:
Are all people really equal? For example is the value of a person's life who is a rapist, pedophile and cannibal the same value as the life of a con artist and burgalar?

 

[yeti585]

I'll call my self an equalist. I support the advancement to equality of everyone's rights.

 

[orangeban]

snip

snip

Oh good gravy it's happened.

I implore you two, do not get into this.

That way madness lies. Madness and moderation.

But I'm bored and poking the trolls is fun!

Oh so I am troll? Isn't the one "poking" supposed to be troll?

Anyway - youtube girlwriteswhat if you want to know more about feminism.

since having opinion and knowing what happens around is "trolling" then good luck, I am out of here.

Hahaha, you watch Girlwriteswhat? She's one of the loopiest of the MRAs, do you visit /mr on reddit?

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

I'm an equalist. Modern Feminism is swiftly becoming the female equivalant of misogynism, what with the people who don't really want equality, more a tip in the balance of power.

 

[Evilpigeon]

A side point to throw to people who see themselves as egalitarians is this:
Are all people really equal? For example is the value of a person's life who is a rapist, pedophile and cannibal the same value as the life of a con artist and burgalar?

You're misunderstanding the meaning of equal in this context, nobody is born a rapist, murderer or burglar these are acts committed during your lifetime. Certain people are perhaps more predisposed to committing these acts than others but the idea of pre-emptively punishing people for crimes that they might not even commit sounds pretty fucked up to me. Everyone should be treated equally in that punishment or law in general should not discriminate based upon gender, race, religion etc.

The problem with this ideal is that for people to genuinely be treated equally everyone needs to start off on an equal footing which gives rise to awkward artificial methods of closing percieved gender/race gaps such as quotas and other tools. (less related to your post but still)

 

[Kahunaburger]

Yeah, you are telling the truth. But only in a strictly legal sense. You aren't biologically female, only legally. Thing is, most people don't give a shit about the legal part. Sadly a sex change isn't magic that actually makes you the other gender, all it makes you is your original gender mutilated to look like the other gender. I'm guessing thats his problem. You may officially be female, he however doesn't consider you female. Thus, for him to sleep with you would be much like sleeping with a man. It's a mental barrier and while complicated, I would also say that you not mentioning it is deceptive.

Suddenly, it doesn't surprise me that you're so defensive about people going "lol, MRAs" when someone interrupts a rant about feminism for a rant about transgender people.

do you visit /mr on reddit?

Oh, r/mensrights. Didn't they get declared a hate group by the SPLC?

 

[xplosive59]

I am all for equality in everything!

I hate feminazi's though, and by that I mean the ones who want men to be wiped off the face of the earth eg this ***** here...

http://thefemitheist.blogspot.com.br/2012/04/allow-me-to-introduce-myself.html

...Who believes that every man should be castrated, and should be executed if they refuse. (She isn't trolling either, she's got an entire youtube channel devoted to that stuff.

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

I find those definitions of feminism to be sorely lacking. Feminism is the crazy idea that everybody deserves to be treated like a human being, regardless of things like age, race, gender or sexual orientation.

Yikes. Who would believe in that kind of nonsense?

OT: Aren't there a couple of different varieties of feminism as well though?
e.g. the ones who think women are the superior sex, and want less rights for men, along with a couple of others.
I think I remember some sort of thread on the issue.

I'm sure there are some people who think that, but according to the Oxford definitions in OP's post, they're not feminists. If anything, they're misandrists, or maybe "female supremacists." And for the record, those people are just as dumb as any misogynist.

Personally, I do consider myself a feminist, because of course men and women should be treated equally.

 

[Realitycrash]

I don't identify as feminist because the word holds lots of different connotations depending on whom you ask, and I believe I shouldn't have to specify that I want the sexes to be equal. It should be the default position.

Sadly, a large chunk (Maybe majorty?) of the world still disagree. You know, with a large chunk of the world still being rigorously religious, and these religions often dictating how a man and a woman should behave themselves. This might not, de jure claim that they are not equal, but simply have different responsibilities, but it often de facto the case.

So yeah, you will probably keep having to state that for awhile.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Yeah, you are telling the truth. But only in a strictly legal sense. You aren't biologically female, only legally. Thing is, most people don't give a shit about the legal part. Sadly a sex change isn't magic that actually makes you the other gender, all it makes you is your original gender mutilated to look like the other gender. I'm guessing thats his problem. You may officially be female, he however doesn't consider you female. Thus, for him to sleep with you would be much like sleeping with a man. It's a mental barrier and while complicated, I would also say that you not mentioning it is deceptive.

Suddenly, it doesn't surprise me that you're so defensive about people going "lol, MRAs" when someone interrupts a rant about feminism for a rant about transgender people.

Considering how you think that post was grounds to (foolishly) try and start a personal attack against me, I'm sure you can point what I wrote there that is actually inaccurate, right? Or are you just, once more, spouting out incoherent bullshit?

Well, I'm pretty sure "mutilation" is not the most accurate term for sex reassignment (not to mention the transphobia.) And you appear to be getting sex and gender confused, which in turn seems to be preventing you from fully grasping the subject.

 

[Jonluw]

I don't identify as feminist because the word holds lots of different connotations depending on whom you ask, and I believe I shouldn't have to specify that I want the sexes to be equal. It should be the default position.

Sadly, a large chunk (Maybe majorty?) of the world still disagree. You know, with a large chunk of the world still being rigorously religious, and these religions often dictating how a man and a woman should behave themselves. This might not, de jure claim that they are not equal, but simply have different responsibilities, but it often de facto the case.

So yeah, you will probably keep having to state that for awhile.

And still I'd prefer to simply explain that I think men and women are equal, rather than say "I'm feminist" and deal with all the baggage that word carries with it.
The moment you attach a label like that to yourself, people start putting words in your mouth and ascribing opinions to you.

It's the same reason why I identify as non-religious, not atheist, even though I am atheist as well.