Poll: Are you a feminist?

[Sparrow]

I don't identify as feminist because the word holds lots of different connotations depending on whom you ask, and I believe I shouldn't have to specify that I want the sexes to be equal. It should be the default position.

This answer sums up my viewpoint quite nicely. I mean, when someone says feminist my mind always jumps to those men-hating nazi-feminists... not something I want to be identified with. Equality, however, is something I have no qualms with.

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: it shouldn't be called feminism, it should be called equalitism.

 

[Evilpigeon]

Feminism is a very good idea in theory, but in practice it sometimes leads to pure stupidity.

Absolutely the way I feel. I've heard feminists complain about how society separates boys and girls from birth by the color pink vs. blue, and write essays (in my literary theory class) about how girls are not allowed to like certain cartoons because it's a "boy's show." Such incredibly trivial and selfish that it reminds me about that Resident Evil 5 racist malarkey.

It's actually very true that young children are brought up with different sets of social paragdigms based upon gender and that these paradigms often have long term consequences - physics and engineering courses at universities tend to be pretty lacking in female applicants for example. It'd be nigh impossible to say for certain to what extent this gap is due to women on average being mentally predisposed towards other sorts of subjects and how much is caused by social pressure to avoid these subjects however it'd be very naive to argue that people's upbringing doesn't affect affect them at all.

 

[orangeban]

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Oh good gravy it's happened.

I implore you two, do not get into this.

That way madness lies. Madness and moderation.

But I'm bored and poking the trolls is fun!

 

[DeleteThisAcc]

Well, I actually agree with you that quotas are basically a band-aid for a larger structural problem (i.e., the unofficial quotas in management/boardrooms/etc). But pretending that women are the sole beneficiary of gender quotas is an over-simplification, too - the effects of the quota depend on the applicant pool for whatever the quota's for.

Really? Forcing company to hire women without even looking at their qualifications can be beneficial?(not beneficial to company or even COUNTRY due to company making less profit thus paying less tax) And how is more qualified man that did not got job is "beneficiary of gender quota"?

A "beneficiary" of something is someone who benefits from something. Calling someone a "beneficiary" of a policy does not imply a value judgment on the policy's benefit (or lack thereof) to society.

Yes women benefit from gender quotas. And company, country, and males that did not get job suffers. Equal rights and opportunities benefits women.

Well, women are the immediate beneficiaries of some gender quotas, and men are the immediate beneficiaries of others. It depends on the applicant pool.

" It depends on the applicant pool."
ugh... explain. Give example or something. I am afraid you don't get what I am speaking about.

See also: three pages back. [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20111646-503544.html] The female applicant pool is larger than the male applicant pool for college admissions in the states. So for the colleges that have gender quotas, males are generally the primary beneficiary of these quotas. Incidentally, this is why I don't like the quota system: the effects are pretty random, and it doesn't do much about the underlying causes of inequality.

look, first I am speaking about job quotas where MOSTLY only female quotas work (boss can have 100% female workers and noone will care, but he can have maximum like 70% of male workers)
In your example you have quota that goes both ways - rare example. Also I would like to know why "female applicant pool is larger than the male applicant pool for college admissions in the states" and what feminist is going to do about that.

Also Quota system IS BAD IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE:
Even if quota works both ways: 50/50 - male/female it is still bad in universities and jobs BECAUSE you always need people that are best qualified (universities, jobs) and quotas prevent taking maximum capacity of best qualified people by forcing to choose from two different "pots" equally (one pot might be filled with good apples and other with rotten ones that year). Also quotas create bigger divide between sexes, oh wait, feminism want exactly that...

 

[maninahat]

gender quotas

Depends on what the quota's for, of course, but at least in American admissions men are a larger beneficiary of gender quotas than women. The female applicant pool is larger than the male applicant pool.

let me tell you what happens in rest of the world:
Boss opens small company, he needs 10 good workers.
20 men and 20 women come for job.
In boss puts them by qualification in hiring line.
He wants to take 8 men and 2 women - others are less qualified.
Gender quota says: "Thou shall have half of your workers female if your job is not coal mining or toxic waste disposal"
Boss drops 3 men that was more qualified for job and takes 3 women that were less qualified.
Company doesn't work as well because of workers not having best possible qualifications.
But! Lets say that qualification line was different!
What If all women were more qualified than men?
So boss wants to hire 10 women.
Gender quota says: " Well chosen"..
Yah, EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES AND RIGHTS... Thank you feminism.

Well, I actually agree with you that quotas are basically a band-aid for a larger structural problem (i.e., the unofficial quotas in management/boardrooms/etc). But pretending that women are the sole beneficiary of gender quotas is an over-simplification, too - the effects of the quota depend on the applicant pool for whatever the quota's for.

Ignoring the fact that explicit quotas are illegal, or that there is no regulation that requires people to take on less qualified folk for "equality's sake", there is a further complication to the issue of affirmative action:

Suppose there are ten applicants for one job position, and only one of the applicants is female. She is one of two best applicants, being just as qualified for the role as the best man. Now suppose the employer, having to pick between these two, applies his own hidden quota and hires the woman. All 9 men are going to go home, thinking they had been treated unfairly by this affirmative action policy. The reality is that technically, only one of those male applicants was discriminated against. As there was only one position, 9 people were not going to get the job anyway. But that doesn't change the fact that they will all feel equally mistreated. It's one subtlety which greatly exhaggerates the issue (by a factor of nine, in this case).

 

[DeleteThisAcc]

I don't "mind" transvestites as long as they don't lie and hunt for mates. If you are transvestite and going to date someone - tell them "what" you are. (and " oh they are born that way" is BS. Really? Man that had wife and children and was cool all around suddenly decides that he is a woman?)

I've got a better idea. Why don't we, as a society, stop trying to micromanage the clothing and gender identification of people in our society? You know, treat people like people, even if they *gasp* don't conform to 19th century American/European gender norms?

or even better - why don't we stop *gasp* lying? Oh wait, that would kill feminism, prevent transvestites from ruining peoples lives (some transvestite kinda screwed someones I know life)

When I tell you I'm a woman (I'm a transgender woman), I'm not "lying", I'm telling you the truth. Why shouldn't it be your responsibility to tell all your partners that you don't like transgender people?

If someone doesn't like bisexuals, and dates a bisexual without knowing it, is the bisexual a liar for not telling them they were a bisexual?

"When I tell you I'm a woman (I'm a transgender woman), I'm not "lying"," technically you are lying. Or you could just say that you used to be man. You are hiding important information from someone. Or just say "transgender woman". Is it so hard to pronounce? Also this tread is about feminism - PM me if you want discuss this, not here.

 

[Stublore]

I voted no.
I'd rather treat everyone the same, maybe add an option for Egalitarian?

 

[orangeban]

I don't "mind" transvestites as long as they don't lie and hunt for mates. If you are transvestite and going to date someone - tell them "what" you are. (and " oh they are born that way" is BS. Really? Man that had wife and children and was cool all around suddenly decides that he is a woman?)

I've got a better idea. Why don't we, as a society, stop trying to micromanage the clothing and gender identification of people in our society? You know, treat people like people, even if they *gasp* don't conform to 19th century American/European gender norms?

or even better - why don't we stop *gasp* lying? Oh wait, that would kill feminism, prevent transvestites from ruining peoples lives (some transvestite kinda screwed someones I know life)

When I tell you I'm a woman (I'm a transgender woman), I'm not "lying", I'm telling you the truth. Why shouldn't it be your responsibility to tell all your partners that you don't like transgender people?

If someone doesn't like bisexuals, and dates a bisexual without knowing it, is the bisexual a liar for not telling them they were a bisexual?

"When I tell you I'm a woman (I'm a transgender woman), I'm not "lying"," technically you are lying. Or you could just say that you used to be man. You are hiding important information from someone. Or just say "transgender woman". Is it so hard to pronounce? Also this tread is about feminism - PM me if you want discuss this, not here.

Nah, it's alright, I can't be bothered, I've danced this tango a few to many time.

 

[zehydra]

Feminism is a broken term. I advocate political equality of the sexes, nothing more.

 

[lacktheknack]

No more than I am a masculist.

I advocate equal opportunity in all non-biological things, which advocates expansion of men's rights just as much as women's rights.

So I guess "Kinda"?

 

[Kahunaburger]

But I'm bored and poking the trolls is fun!

Cosigned.

Also I would like to know why "female applicant pool is larger than the male applicant pool for college admissions in the states" and what feminist is going to do about that.

This is a very good question. There's currently an achievement gap between girls and boys in America's school system. There's no one answer as to why this is the case, but I strongly suspect part of it is the gender gap in teaching. Which, in turn, goes right back to the problem our society has re: gender roles being a thing that exists in the information age.

 

[DeleteThisAcc]

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Oh good gravy it's happened.

I implore you two, do not get into this.

That way madness lies. Madness and moderation.

But I'm bored and poking the trolls is fun!

Oh so I am troll? Isn't the one "poking" supposed to be troll?

Anyway - youtube girlwriteswhat if you want to know more about feminism.

since having opinion and knowing what happens around is "trolling" then good luck, I am out of here.

 

[Steve Waltz]

It's actually very true that young children are brought up with different sets of social paragdigms based upon gender and that these paradigms often have long term consequences - physics and engineering courses at universities tend to be pretty lacking in female applicants for example. It'd be nigh impossible to say for certain to what extent this gap is due to women on average being mentally predisposed towards other sorts of subjects and how much is caused by social pressure to avoid these subjects however it'd be very naive to argue that people's upbringing doesn't affect affect them at all.

Hold please.

Absolutely right, but like I mentioned in my second paragraph, these complaints sound trivial and selfish when Feminists only focus on women. Those males taking physics and engineering courses might not be taking those courses if they were playing with Barbies or watching Hanna Montana at a young age. It is selfish to only focus on the fact that being segregated at birth only affects women, when it actually affects both genders. And that's what makes it feel like silly complaints that many people (like myself) cannot take seriously.

THAT was the point of my post. I said I completely support equal rights and I would love to see the day when babies are treated as equals and having both boys and girls playing with G.I Joes and Barbies together, but I would NEVER sacrifice or favor one over the other like feminists do.

 

[Moth_Monk]

It's interesting to see that the most common reason given by no-voters is that the term "feminist" has the misfortune of negative connotations attached to the word. Of course there is the argument that can be made in opposition to this that if more people stood up and "reclaimed" the word via indetification it would lose these negative connotations and so mysoginists would no longer be able to use "straw feminist" arguments (i.e all feminists hate men/feminists think women are the superior sex) to attempt to support their disgusting world view.

A side point to throw to people who see themselves as egalitarians is this:
Are all people really equal? For example is the value of a person's life who is a rapist, pedophile and cannibal the same value as the life of a con artist and burgalar?

 

[yeti585]

I'll call my self an equalist. I support the advancement to equality of everyone's rights.

 

[orangeban]

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Oh good gravy it's happened.

I implore you two, do not get into this.

That way madness lies. Madness and moderation.

But I'm bored and poking the trolls is fun!

Oh so I am troll? Isn't the one "poking" supposed to be troll?

Anyway - youtube girlwriteswhat if you want to know more about feminism.

since having opinion and knowing what happens around is "trolling" then good luck, I am out of here.

Hahaha, you watch Girlwriteswhat? She's one of the loopiest of the MRAs, do you visit /mr on reddit?

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

I'm an equalist. Modern Feminism is swiftly becoming the female equivalant of misogynism, what with the people who don't really want equality, more a tip in the balance of power.