Chunko said:
I always thought that the Na'vi were being arrogant and unreasonable. Humanity was offering them a lot and they refused. Humans were out there for there own survival and the Na'vi would not be diplomatic. That gave them only one option. The humans didn't care about exterminating the Na'vi, just surviving.
Jake Sully specifically was a jerk. Aside from showing no emotion he damned his own species. In addition to this he was hurting the Na'vi as well. If he had not united them maybe like twelve aliens would have died. Instead hundreds perished, both human and Na'vi. I'm sure that after the mining had been set up Na'vi would have been forced to negotiate with humanity, and maybe they could be uplifted from their primitive society.
In addition to this I quite frankly did not like any of the aliens. The only characters who stuck out to me were humans. I liked the executive and the macho military guy (I can't remember their names, sue me). On a really shallow level I didn't like the movie which made me immune to its propaganda.
1) Humanity was offering the Navi roads, education and medicines. What use had they for that? They had their own knowledge, their own transport and their own remedies. They were in harmony with their environment, not seeking to change and control it. In return for what the humans were offering, they wanted to be allowed to basically rape the planet, open-pit mining it to haul away the planet's mineral riches.
What you have here is an exact repeat of all those early European colonial movements; seeking out new lands, impressing the natives with cheap shiny and then pillaging them for all their worth. The lack of 'diplomacy' on behalf of the Na'vi was simply them not kowtowing to the demands of the invaders. The humans failed to understand the nature of the Na'vi, as it was fundamentally different to their own and the corporations were more interested in turning a quick buck than real diplomatic relations.
2) "Humans were out there for there own survival" is bullshit :/ They use unobtanium in trains and fusion reactors to power their ships. It's not survival, it money, through and through. The corporation would have loved to have just exterminated the Na'vi as it would have made their job soooo much easier, but that would have looked bad in the press and hurt their stocks. Yeah, aren't they just made of heart?
3) Criticism of Jake should really focus on how he took so long to convey the message he was meant to deliver, contributing to the military intervention, but be honest that that was going to happen anyway when you have a corporation with big guns and a titanic pot of gold sat right there for the taking.
Criticising Jake for unifying the tribes to fight off the humans is bizarre - what, the Na'vi were meant to just roll over and take it? Is that what you would do if someone burned down your home and stole your land, just go 'ok'? Or would you, you know, stand up and make a stand against the thuggish invader? I find that you think forcing the Na'vi to negotiate through burning their homes and pillaging their land is an acceptable way of opening diplomatic relations worrying and immature, as is your assertion that theirs was a 'primitive' society :/
It's a shame that you feel an anti-colonial film with strong environmental preservation and spiritual overtones is a 'propaganda piece'. To be so closed to the beauty of nature and to so completely embrace technological advances at the expense of all else... I just find that shocking. You have completely bought into the consumerist propaganda of our time to the extent of not even realising that life doesn't have to be this way.
Chunko said:
Hubilub said:
On an emotional level I stayed neutral, but I believe the Na'vi are right and the humans are wrong.
It was never explained that humanity needed unobtanium to survive, only that it's really expensive stuff they can get rich on. On an entire planet there should be more than just one place where they can find unobtanium, but apparently they didn't want to make the effort of relocating to another side of the planet.
And of course, that is considering that there are no other places in the entire universe where you can get unobtanium, which frankly sounds far-fetched. If it's so damn rare, then I don't see how humanity would survive for long on that stuff.
Jake Sully isn't a jerk. Why should he side with the humans in this conflict when they are the bigger assholes? And why should they just let the humans get their will through? They'd probably start harassing and killing other Na'vi as they went looking for more unobtanium.
And who the hell can support the idea of the humans uplifting the Na'vi from their primitive society? Remember the words Manifest Destiny?
We all regret that, which is why I think we wouldn't treat the Na'vi the same way we treated the Native Americans. As for the unobtanium we needed the minerals for our economy, and therefor our species to survive. Besides that even if we didn't taking over Na'vi would allow for us to build a galactic empire and make the world better for everyone. Mass Effect Anyone. The unobtanium itself would just get the humans started on bigger projects. Once Pandora was depleated (which would probably take 1000 years) they could expand to other planets.
Erm, it was quite clear in the film that the corporation had learned no lessons from the past. They were there for exploitation, pure and simple - to the hell with the natives. Sure, the scientists were sent out on education missions and the such like, but their feedback was pretty much ignored when it couldn't be directly used for military advantage or commercial use.
Again, unobtanium wasn't necessary for survival, it was prized for the potential for expansion. Economy =/= survival of the species. Economy is no reason to wage war on another people - or at least it shouldn't be (glares at the carnage in Iraq).
As for humans going all Mass Effect utopia... no. If you read any backstory you would know that Earth is an industrial wasteland, devoid of nature. It's the antithesis of Pandora. Rampant industrial growth and the strength of corporate interests cost the planet dearly, and that sort of thinking was what led to the assumption that Pandora could be similarly exploited.
Really, I don't see how anyone who'd taken the time to think would support the humans, especially Americans - I mean, aren't you all meant to be anti-colonial? Or is that beaten by a deep-seated hatred of nature?